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Typical P5 top assistants getting mentioned as WMU possibles are currently in the $350,000 range. More than Hawkins made.
Expect $450,000 minimum offer would be needed to hire away from a plush p5 program.

IF and a BIG IF WMU is truly interested in improving Bronco basketball it will cost. Will WMU pay a Head coach salary plus paying to keep top assistants? Recruiting budgets have been lacking for years.
Clayton did outstanding job getting outside money to upgrade basketball offices.

In the current days of continuing WMU budget cuts, supporting basketball probably won’t happen.
Basketball will continue as a frayed shoe string.

Don’t get too excited

No.

It will take donor commitments to increase pay.

No.

Why is Plush P5 assistant the answer for us?

How does working at a P5 school with all the resources in the world prepare you for taking on a bottom tier MAC program?

I'd prefer to find a guy that has proven he can win with less than their opponents, not someone who aided a coach that has proven they can win with a lot.

Look for guys at lower tier D1 programs, or D2 guys.....to me that's the answer.

Is there irony that Ric Wesley resigned yesterday after 18 years at GVSU shortly after the news of Bates comes out? Does he move the needle?

Ironically…Wesley’s GVSU team had back to back losses to Saginaw Valley State the past couple weeks. The SVSU squad seems to be real coach killers!

(03-08-2022 10:41 AM)Doo Wrote:  Why is Plush P5 assistant the answer for us?

How does working at a P5 school with all the resources in the world prepare you for taking on a bottom tier MAC program?

I'd prefer to find a guy that has proven he can win with less than their opponents, not someone who aided a coach that has proven they can win with a lot.

Look for guys at lower tier D1 programs, or D2 guys.....to me that's the answer.

Yep, same applies to football when Lester leaves one day (voluntarily or involuntarily). I know it's a blanket statement where there are exceptions, but I generally like the idea of a hungry, successful FCS/Div II head coach over an upper tier P5 assistant.

And while I'd love for Saddi to come over, he's probably gotten too expensive even by P5 assistant standards, and jury's out on whether he's interested in a MAC HC gig anyhow, even at his alma mater.

(03-08-2022 10:41 AM)Doo Wrote:  Why is Plush P5 assistant the answer for us?

How does working at a P5 school with all the resources in the world prepare you for taking on a bottom tier MAC program?

I'd prefer to find a guy that has proven he can win with less than their opponents, not someone who aided a coach that has proven they can win with a lot.

Look for guys at lower tier D1 programs, or D2 guys.....to me that's the answer.

I used the P5 assistant reference above because the only replacement mentioned names currently are at P5 programs.

No, bball plays 3rd wheel to football & hockey. Just the reality of being a MAC school. Credit to Hawkins for doing what he did w/ less.

(03-08-2022 04:29 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  No, bball plays 3rd wheel to football & hockey. Just the reality of being a MAC school. Credit to Hawkins for doing what he did w/ less.

There are several important folks at WMU - including the President - who see potential profits for MBB far exceeding anything Hockey will ever bring in. The hockey program is expensive to maintain. Basketball is relatively cheap.

(03-09-2022 08:59 AM)broncofan1 Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 04:29 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  No, bball plays 3rd wheel to football & hockey. Just the reality of being a MAC school. Credit to Hawkins for doing what he did w/ less.

There are several important folks at WMU - including the President - who see potential profits for MBB far exceeding anything Hockey will ever bring in. The hockey program is expensive to maintain. Basketball is relatively cheap.

And also has the biggest potential IMO. Football requires a miracle season to even get any national attention. Even in the MAC, a SOLID basketball program can be ranked pretty consistently, and wins in March give tons of press.

Well, from the depths of where we are at, becoming competitive again and bringing back fans for hoops is a tall order. Not saying it can't be done.

Whoever we bring in I hope they have a familiarity with our primary recruiting territory. Detroit, Chicago, Indianapolis, etc.

Sorry to see Bates go as I thought he deserved at least another year but the results were what they were and we've bottomed out.

I'm very skeptical that we will spend what is needed to revive the program. Hope to be proven wrong.

Since most here would’ve been willing to give Bates another year or so, I think this shows someone in charge doesn’t like where we’re at.

(03-08-2022 04:29 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  No, bball plays 3rd wheel to football & hockey. Just the reality of being a MAC school. Credit to Hawkins for doing what he did w/ less.

Only because hoops at Western has been on a long, downward spiral. Has nothing to do with being a MAC school.

Set out a good product that is competitive and fans will return.

Kalamazoo has always only followed winning teams

We've had some gloriously fun times.

I really hate how WMU bball and hockey fans are pitted against one other for this tiny slice of financial pie while football gets all that it wants unquestioned. I, like everyone else, like WMU football but football has limited return on investment.

WMU should pay for a decent coaching staff. Attending WMU bball games in the early 2000s was awesome.

Charm-I agree with you, as I too hate seeing BB and Hockey fans pitted against one another, as the 800# gorilla in the room is football. But football is here to stay and maybe they catch lighting in a bottle or find a miracle season, but they’ll never win a national championship.

SilentStryk09-I agree that BB has the greatest upside, can win some conference tournaments to get into the March Madness Tournament and that would generate a 1 game, possible 2 games press coverage. But they’ll never win a national championship.

BroncoFAN 1-I do not agree with you that MBB profits far exceed anything hockey will bring in. If you take a look at WMU 20/21 Summary Budget you will see men’s basketball budget is actually $220K more than men’s hockey. The primary difference is Lawson Arena, as it generates a lot of income for WMU through ice rentals.

Looking at another web site, WMU men’s basketball revenue was the #6 highest in the MAC (middle of pack), 30% less than the top three MAC revenue leaders in Ohio, Buffalo and Akron. But none of the MAC basketball programs posted a profit. But there is room for improvement.

WMU hockey revenue was the #6 highest in NCHC (bottom 1/3rd), 50% less than the three top NCHC revenue leaders in CC, ND and UMD. Three NCHC programs did post a profit at UMD, SCSU and CC. Hockey revenue is limited by the facility, but if that was addressed they could double revenue.

A survey I would love to see, is to ask the student body which of the 3 major WMU athletic programs (football, basketball or hockey) is their favorite to attend home games? This year Football offered 12 regular season games (6 home), with 2 away games vs top 25 teams, playing in the #11 ranked conference, Basketball offered 31 regular season games (13 home), 0 games vs current top 25 ranked teams and playing in the #18 ranked conference. Hockey offered 34 regular season games (14 home), 19 vs current top 10 ranked teams (9 at home), playing in the #1 ranked hockey conference in the country.

Regardless of the sport, I don't want to see any of WMU athletic teams competing with disadvantages. Our facilities and coaching salaries should be on par with other conference members.

Cbates had a staff targeted when he got job -wanted one juco assistant (who's now a HC at a good juco) and one MM league assistant that is a big man coach and also had roots as juco hc and had been a really good european big man for years. He couldn't bring them here (both wanted to come) because of the money they would be getting couldn't justify them moving. Think about that. His staff worked their butts off, but 2 of them have never been FT assistants on any college level before the last 2 years. Some lower level guys worked for free (aside from the money their head coach raised/budgeted to give them). And still, if he had a crack at next year with hannah and the big coming, plus shemani they would've been good. They were good at the end of the year. They beat Akron. If they keep the squad together, they'll be good if the next guy can get the buy in that the staff had gotten by FEB/MARCH.

Does not appear WMU basketball is competing on a level playing field (court?) with our MAC brethren.

If so that should be taken into account when evaluating record and coaching staff.