(02-14-2022 07:36 PM)We Are the Dukes of JMU Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 04:00 PM)MUther Wrote:  No, ECU would be first priority. Probably a no, but they get asked first. But we really don't need to expand. Hell, the Sun Belt has never even played with a big conference. Let them sit on this a while and see if they even like the 14 team setup. No need to even consider expansion for at least 5 years. And by that time we should be securely 1 or 2 based on field performance and not talking heads.

The SBC should be targeting ECU, Memphis, and USF. As long as the AAC maintains its two-tiered ESPN deal, the SBC is a nonstarter for those schools, but that model isn't sustainable. The new schools aren't going to approve any deal where they get less. They're in now and they have a vote. I suspect that when it comes time to renegotiate, those three schools could do better with the SBC than with the hodgepodge of "market schools" in the AAC.

I think the SBC needs to just sit on what we have for 5 or so years and let things pan out. We currently have an experiment going on between three G5 conferences in terms of what's a better product: On one side you have the AAC and CUSA which are essentially compiled of members based on potential market viewership while in the Sun Belt you have a conference compiled of members based on their history, fan bases and legacies.

On paper you'd think the SBC would win out because of the matchups. Like I've said before in the east from an App perspective, every team in that division minus ODU could be considered a rivalry game for us, and I'm thinking that could probably be said for all of the other schools in the division as well, while in the west you have the potential for a similar situation with those schools.

Eventually one of these models is going to produce a better product in terms of ratings, game day environment and popularity and if it ends up being us, we should have several teams from the other two conferences that would greatly enhance the brand wanting in.

But for right now I'd rather see the "on paper" evolve into "on the field" and make it desirable.

I am curious as to why JMU did not want to be in the same conference as Liberty?

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(02-15-2022 10:53 AM)hburg Wrote:  I am curious as to why JMU did not want to be in the same conference as Liberty?

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They dirty..
They low down..

No wait.. That's Alabama vs Tennessee...

The Marshall fan base wanted away from a Texas centric conference. Most of the admin did also. Having only 4 programs (WKU, MTSU, Charlotte, ODU) less than 8 hours away was not friendly. Now the only eastern school more than 8 hours away is GA Southern. Even GA State and ODU comes in at under 8 hours, right around at 7 hours 40 mins each.

I have nothing against UTEP, UTSA, Rice, North Texas or LA Tech but none of those schools excited me or probably 95% of the fan base. Out of those schools Marshall had only played North Texas once in 1988 (Marshall 7 North Texas 0, playoff game) and LA Tech once in 1942 (Marshall 0 LA Tech 26). Had never played UTEP, Rice or UTSA.

(02-15-2022 10:53 AM)hburg Wrote:  I am curious as to why JMU did not want to be in the same conference as Liberty?

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Folks can agree or disagree, but if true I think we all know why.

(02-13-2022 12:40 PM)rileylives Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 11:03 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 10:39 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 10:13 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  I've been reading quite a bit of misinformation as to how the Marshall/ODU/JMU pair with Southern Miss to the Sun Belt happened. I just want to clear this up so everyone understands what happened. I've started this based on a comment from a Liberty fan that stated Marshall and ODU were a lot closer to staying in CUSA as some may think which he stated in the Chris Vannini Tweet thread....which is not actually true.


Just a little back story that some may not know to get this started......Both Marshall and ECU were very instrumental in getting ODU up from FCS and into CUSA. Both schools have large numbers of alumni in the Tidewater area and all three had similar goals as it pertains to college athletics. A guy named Terry Holland (Former AD at ECU) along with Marshall's former AD Mike Hamrick were the driving force to getting CUSA to accept the idea of taking in ODU. It was a fight with CUSA to get them in. CUSA was ok with Charlotte (Who had been a former CUSA member) but was not as keen on ODU but finally gave in.

That scenario is what brought Marshall and ODU so close. Especially after ECU moved on to the American. When the latest round of deflections happened, Marshall and ODU stood in solidarity. They knew that whatever happened, they were doing it together. Both had already started talks with the Sun Belt (along with Southern Miss and a few others) behind the scenes in the summer of 21. Both Marshall and ODU liked the idea of being with a conference that included App State, Coastal, Georgia Southern, Georgia State etc. As did the fans. Both schools have large alumni bases in these areas and recruit these areas as well.

The TV deal that the Sun Belt was able to negotiate with ESPN was attractive and was a big driving force for the move as fans and alumni from both schools had gotten tired of watching games on Facebook, stadium etc,

When the six schools got selected from the American, it was then that both schools new it was likely they were moving on. For them to have any chance to stay, they were adamant that at least half of any new additions would come from the east.

So here is the kicker......When Marshall and ODU made their request of schools to be added to CUSA.....they were JMU and Liberty. CUSA was ok with JMU, but they did not want Liberty at first. To save face, Liberty said they preferred to "stay independent" when they were turned down.

Other eastern options were out as CUSA had lost its leverage to pull a school from the Sun Belt or the Mac so those options were gone and never was an option. At that point, Marshall and ODU had essentially told CUSA they were looking at other options (meaning the move to the Sun Belt).

The Sun Belt for Marshall and ODU was always the preferred option so they could get with like minded schools. Both schools along with JMU and Southern Miss had large alumni bases in Sunbelt Occupied locations (Myrtle Beach, Boone/Charlotte, Atlanta and other gulf coast cities.). They both wanted to get back with schools that they had a history with (App/Georgia Southern/Troy etc). The Sunbelt is where they were going and they knew it but they had to do their "due diligence" based on pressure from each schools board of governors.

The MAC made a last minute play (Not knowing that Marshall and ODU had been in talks with the Sun Belt) but the two schools had no real interest in going to the MAC. They wanted to be in the south. Going to the Sunbelt was what we were doing and they let CUSA know.

As a "last minute" Hail Mary, CUSA had now decided they would allow Liberty to join hoping Marshall and ODU would have a change of mind and reconsider staying. It was to late. The decision had been made and we were moving on along with JMU and Southern Miss to the Sun Belt. The rest is history.

I'm wondering if you have any additional insight on who the others were. From hints on this board over the past 6 months, I've assumed the schools who entertained the idea of joining the Belt and were in contact with the conference were:

- Southern Miss
- Marshall
- ODU
- JMU
- WKU
- UTSA
- UAB
- FAU
- Charlotte
- Missouri State

Is this list correct?

I don't recall hearing Missouri State or UTSA specifically reaching out. AD's and school presidents talk all the time about different scenarios and possibilities so it wouldn't surprise me if they had.

One thing I will tell you....when JMU made it known to the CAA that they were making the move, Delaware did reach out and wanted to be a part of the additions to the Sun Belt but were told that the conference was going to hold at 14. Delaware made it known that they were very interested in making the move in the future if the situation ever presented itself.

That being said....Delaware is going to have a lot of competition for a spot in the future if that ever happened but they are working on facilities to position themselves for such a move in the future. We'll see what happens.

IF we expand, Western should be priority #1. The other option should be up to the Sun Belt west. But WKU is IMHO a priority.

So that means Delaware would have a hard time, unless WKU we're the western add.

Also, imagine Delaware getting in before La Tech....the meltdown would be EPIC.

ECU should be priority number 1.

(04-11-2022 07:56 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 12:40 PM)rileylives Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 11:03 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 10:39 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 10:13 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  I've been reading quite a bit of misinformation as to how the Marshall/ODU/JMU pair with Southern Miss to the Sun Belt happened. I just want to clear this up so everyone understands what happened. I've started this based on a comment from a Liberty fan that stated Marshall and ODU were a lot closer to staying in CUSA as some may think which he stated in the Chris Vannini Tweet thread....which is not actually true.


Just a little back story that some may not know to get this started......Both Marshall and ECU were very instrumental in getting ODU up from FCS and into CUSA. Both schools have large numbers of alumni in the Tidewater area and all three had similar goals as it pertains to college athletics. A guy named Terry Holland (Former AD at ECU) along with Marshall's former AD Mike Hamrick were the driving force to getting CUSA to accept the idea of taking in ODU. It was a fight with CUSA to get them in. CUSA was ok with Charlotte (Who had been a former CUSA member) but was not as keen on ODU but finally gave in.

That scenario is what brought Marshall and ODU so close. Especially after ECU moved on to the American. When the latest round of deflections happened, Marshall and ODU stood in solidarity. They knew that whatever happened, they were doing it together. Both had already started talks with the Sun Belt (along with Southern Miss and a few others) behind the scenes in the summer of 21. Both Marshall and ODU liked the idea of being with a conference that included App State, Coastal, Georgia Southern, Georgia State etc. As did the fans. Both schools have large alumni bases in these areas and recruit these areas as well.

The TV deal that the Sun Belt was able to negotiate with ESPN was attractive and was a big driving force for the move as fans and alumni from both schools had gotten tired of watching games on Facebook, stadium etc,

When the six schools got selected from the American, it was then that both schools new it was likely they were moving on. For them to have any chance to stay, they were adamant that at least half of any new additions would come from the east.

So here is the kicker......When Marshall and ODU made their request of schools to be added to CUSA.....they were JMU and Liberty. CUSA was ok with JMU, but they did not want Liberty at first. To save face, Liberty said they preferred to "stay independent" when they were turned down.

Other eastern options were out as CUSA had lost its leverage to pull a school from the Sun Belt or the Mac so those options were gone and never was an option. At that point, Marshall and ODU had essentially told CUSA they were looking at other options (meaning the move to the Sun Belt).

The Sun Belt for Marshall and ODU was always the preferred option so they could get with like minded schools. Both schools along with JMU and Southern Miss had large alumni bases in Sunbelt Occupied locations (Myrtle Beach, Boone/Charlotte, Atlanta and other gulf coast cities.). They both wanted to get back with schools that they had a history with (App/Georgia Southern/Troy etc). The Sunbelt is where they were going and they knew it but they had to do their "due diligence" based on pressure from each schools board of governors.

The MAC made a last minute play (Not knowing that Marshall and ODU had been in talks with the Sun Belt) but the two schools had no real interest in going to the MAC. They wanted to be in the south. Going to the Sunbelt was what we were doing and they let CUSA know.

As a "last minute" Hail Mary, CUSA had now decided they would allow Liberty to join hoping Marshall and ODU would have a change of mind and reconsider staying. It was to late. The decision had been made and we were moving on along with JMU and Southern Miss to the Sun Belt. The rest is history.

I'm wondering if you have any additional insight on who the others were. From hints on this board over the past 6 months, I've assumed the schools who entertained the idea of joining the Belt and were in contact with the conference were:

- Southern Miss
- Marshall
- ODU
- JMU
- WKU
- UTSA
- UAB
- FAU
- Charlotte
- Missouri State

Is this list correct?

I don't recall hearing Missouri State or UTSA specifically reaching out. AD's and school presidents talk all the time about different scenarios and possibilities so it wouldn't surprise me if they had.

One thing I will tell you....when JMU made it known to the CAA that they were making the move, Delaware did reach out and wanted to be a part of the additions to the Sun Belt but were told that the conference was going to hold at 14. Delaware made it known that they were very interested in making the move in the future if the situation ever presented itself.

That being said....Delaware is going to have a lot of competition for a spot in the future if that ever happened but they are working on facilities to position themselves for such a move in the future. We'll see what happens.

IF we expand, Western should be priority #1. The other option should be up to the Sun Belt west. But WKU is IMHO a priority.

So that means Delaware would have a hard time, unless WKU we're the western add.

Also, imagine Delaware getting in before La Tech....the meltdown would be EPIC.

ECU should be priority number 1.

Did you just randomly quote a post in a 2 month old thread?

(04-11-2022 08:15 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(04-11-2022 07:56 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 12:40 PM)rileylives Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 11:03 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 10:39 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  I'm wondering if you have any additional insight on who the others were. From hints on this board over the past 6 months, I've assumed the schools who entertained the idea of joining the Belt and were in contact with the conference were:

- Southern Miss
- Marshall
- ODU
- JMU
- WKU
- UTSA
- UAB
- FAU
- Charlotte
- Missouri State

Is this list correct?

I don't recall hearing Missouri State or UTSA specifically reaching out. AD's and school presidents talk all the time about different scenarios and possibilities so it wouldn't surprise me if they had.

One thing I will tell you....when JMU made it known to the CAA that they were making the move, Delaware did reach out and wanted to be a part of the additions to the Sun Belt but were told that the conference was going to hold at 14. Delaware made it known that they were very interested in making the move in the future if the situation ever presented itself.

That being said....Delaware is going to have a lot of competition for a spot in the future if that ever happened but they are working on facilities to position themselves for such a move in the future. We'll see what happens.

IF we expand, Western should be priority #1. The other option should be up to the Sun Belt west. But WKU is IMHO a priority.

So that means Delaware would have a hard time, unless WKU we're the western add.

Also, imagine Delaware getting in before La Tech....the meltdown would be EPIC.

ECU should be priority number 1.

Did you just randomly quote a post in a 2 month old thread?

LOL I posted the link on the Realignment board as a response, and then started re-reading this thread.

ECU would justify a move to 16. I doubt Memphis would consider it. Heck ECU would even justify expanding to 15. That east division geography has to be appealing to them.

SBC3 spark interest

I'd rather be in the Sunbelt

(04-11-2022 04:34 PM)Soaring Eagle Wrote:  ECU would justify a move to 16. I doubt Memphis would consider it. Heck ECU would even justify expanding to 15. That east division geography has to be appealing to them.

SBC3 spark interest

I'd rather be in the Sunbelt

Interesting.

(02-14-2022 07:36 PM)We Are the Dukes of JMU Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 04:00 PM)MUther Wrote:  No, ECU would be first priority. Probably a no, but they get asked first. But we really don't need to expand. Hell, the Sun Belt has never even played with a big conference. Let them sit on this a while and see if they even like the 14 team setup. No need to even consider expansion for at least 5 years. And by that time we should be securely 1 or 2 based on field performance and not talking heads.

The SBC should be targeting ECU, Memphis, and USF. As long as the AAC maintains its two-tiered ESPN deal, the SBC is a nonstarter for those schools, but that model isn't sustainable. The new schools aren't going to approve any deal where they get less. They're in now and they have a vote. I suspect that when it comes time to renegotiate, those three schools could do better with the SBC than with the hodgepodge of "market schools" in the AAC.

And that's literally the multi-million dollar question. I expect the SBC deal to increase per school and I expect the AAC's to drop. How much each way is anybody's guess. I think after all is said and done and travel is factored in it becomes at worst a wash for ECU. The simple fact of the matter is that the AAC commuter schools don't have fans to drive a TV deal.

This will sound like an extreme analogy so bear with me... the theory is that when the ACC tv deal is about to expire that the SEC will want Clemson and FSU. More than likely that's what's going to happen. It's a classic case of the whole being greater than the sum of it's parts. Clemson and FSU alone wouldn't increase the SEC tv deal... but games of Clemson/SC, Clemson/UGA, FSU/UF, FSU/Alabama, etc, etc do... more high octane matchups for TV than Clemson and FSU would have in the ACC.

In a similar way I see ECU having more value to the SBC than they have in the AAC now that the SBC added App State and then Marshall and USM. Those are 3 LEGITIMATE rivals of ECU's... not contrived "rivals" like we're trying to be sold on UNCC and Temple. JMU, ODU and CCU are just a bonus for our recruiting in the East. There's some old CAA history there with ODU and JMU also.

When I look at the future AAC there's just nothing there. UNCC??? They didn't even have a program. Temple? Too far away to be a rival imho. The rest are just not interesting to me except for USF, Memphis and Navy who is unfortunately in the west. The rest are just a collection of random letters on the schedule.

(04-12-2022 12:34 PM)b2b Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 07:36 PM)We Are the Dukes of JMU Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 04:00 PM)MUther Wrote:  No, ECU would be first priority. Probably a no, but they get asked first. But we really don't need to expand. Hell, the Sun Belt has never even played with a big conference. Let them sit on this a while and see if they even like the 14 team setup. No need to even consider expansion for at least 5 years. And by that time we should be securely 1 or 2 based on field performance and not talking heads.

The SBC should be targeting ECU, Memphis, and USF. As long as the AAC maintains its two-tiered ESPN deal, the SBC is a nonstarter for those schools, but that model isn't sustainable. The new schools aren't going to approve any deal where they get less. They're in now and they have a vote. I suspect that when it comes time to renegotiate, those three schools could do better with the SBC than with the hodgepodge of "market schools" in the AAC.

And that's literally the multi-million dollar question. I expect the SBC deal to increase per school and I expect the AAC's to drop. How much each way is anybody's guess. I think after all is said and done and travel is factored in it becomes at worst a wash for ECU. The simple fact of the matter is that the AAC commuter schools don't have fans to drive a TV deal.

This will sound like an extreme analogy so bear with me... the theory is that when the ACC tv deal is about to expire that the SEC will want Clemson and FSU. More than likely that's what's going to happen. It's a classic case of the whole being greater than the sum of it's parts. Clemson and FSU alone wouldn't increase the SEC tv deal... but games of Clemson/SC, Clemson/UGA, FSU/UF, FSU/Alabama, etc, etc do... more high octane matchups for TV than Clemson and FSU would have in the ACC.

In a similar way I see ECU having more value to the SBC than they have in the AAC now that the SBC added App State and then Marshall and USM. Those are 3 LEGITIMATE rivals of ECU's... not contrived "rivals" like we're trying to be sold on UNCC and Temple. JMU, ODU and CCU are just a bonus for our recruiting in the East. There's some old CAA history there with ODU and JMU also.

When I look at the future AAC there's just nothing there. UNCC??? They didn't even have a program. Temple? Too far away to be a rival imho. The rest are just not interesting to me except for USF, Memphis and Navy who is unfortunately in the west. The rest are just a collection of random letters on the schedule.

After ECU left CUSA, they moved SoMiss and UAB to the West Division. Marshall was in the exact same position that ECU finds themselves in now (with the same teams we were stuck with). Look what that did to CUSA. You can't force a rivalry with teams your fans aren't familiar with. Ticket sales suffered, fan interest slowly started going down hill. I hope it doesn't happen like that for ECU, but you all are just going to repeat what happened to us.