(01-29-2022 09:40 AM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  

(01-28-2022 11:32 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Will getting Southern Indiana on board assuage WIU fears abou the viability of the OVC

Or is the OVC WIU holdup all about money

I don't THINK the WIU concerns are as much about viability as they are about money, ego and other stuff. The way this has been explained to me, the OVC has a few "soft commits", and once somebody out and out commits in public to joining the league, it will be much easier for some of the others to go public and formalize everything.

(01-29-2022 08:56 AM)TexasTerror Wrote:  Monday, February 7 is the board meeting

ah yeah, that's right. I'll see if I can get anything more concrete early next week. I know there's another DII school that has gotten to the advanced talks stage, but I'm not sure if things fell apart at the last minute.

Lincoln Memorial, MattEP??

(01-29-2022 05:28 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  

(01-28-2022 09:59 PM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 07:39 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  I think the OVC's future is as a non-football conference - but that's if a school like Southern Indiana can raise additional funds. Assuming USI can jump, this would likely be OVC soccer:

Western Illinois (football still in MVFC)
Eastern Illinois
SIU Edwardsville
Chicago State
Southern Indiana
+1 more TBD

The OVC should have made Little Rock commit to adding the sport, but there should be plenty of options for affiliates - namely the 4 MAC schools. NIU would be the most desirable of the four due to geography, but it's not like Western Michigan, Bowling Green, or Akron is that far out of the footprint

Little Rock did a feasibility study a few years ago and was kicked out of the SBC along with us for not having the sport. That addition is highly unlikely, making their entrance a done deal.

If I were the Summit I'd be wary of this happening. They are at 7 for baseball and football only because they St.Thomas showed up. To get to 6 without St.Thomas they need affiliates (UNC for baseball, Eastern Illinois for soccer) and Western Illinois for both sports.

If I were in Sioux Falls or Fargo, I'd be looking at inviting Eastern Illinois and SIUE to the Summit. This would get baseball to 9 and soccer to 8.

The MAC is going to think they are the core of a soccer league (they had 5 of 7 teams in the NCAAT in 2021), including 3 of 4 of the MAC schools. If they can't get affiliates, I'd think they would look at affiliating with the Horizon League. It would certainly cut down on travel.

I could see that as reluctant as NDSU and SDSU are to invite Augustana in the league for anything!!!

(01-29-2022 05:28 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  If I were the Summit I'd be wary of this happening. They are at 7 for baseball and football only because they St.Thomas showed up. To get to 6 without St.Thomas they need affiliates (UNC for baseball, Eastern Illinois for soccer) and Western Illinois for both sports.

If I were in Sioux Falls or Fargo, I'd be looking at inviting Eastern Illinois and SIUE to the Summit. This would get baseball to 9 and soccer to 8.

The MAC is going to think they are the core of a soccer league (they had 5 of 7 teams in the NCAAT in 2021), including 3 of 4 of the MAC schools. If they can't get affiliates, I'd think they would look at affiliating with the Horizon League. It would certainly cut down on travel.

It is quite possible one of the OVC or Summit dies if the right moves take place. If Western Illinois leaves the Summit, this makes things very hard for the Summit.

The Summit would really need UMKC to add baseball, as the Summit would be down to NDSU, SDSU, Omaha, Oral Roberts, St. Thomas, and affiliate Northern Colorado. I'm not sure Sacramento State is attainable as an affiliate.

They also technically need two men's soccer members - the conference needs to volunteer North Dakota and South Dakota since that would make more sense for them than baseball. If Eastern Illinois is off the table, there would at least be options for affiliates with Houston Baptist, Air Force, San Jose State, and UNLV.

Finishing off the OVC by taking Eastern Illinois and SIU Edwardsville would be a good form of life insurance for the Summit:

Denver, UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, St. Thomas,
Omaha, WIU, EIU, SIUE, ORU, Kansas City

Aside from Denver, this lends itself to natural North/South divisions, which even if they exist only for scheduling, would reduce travel for the new members.

(01-25-2022 10:06 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 09:07 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Not exactly. When moving up a school can choose one sport to be eligible sooner I believe-- unless that changed. Also the OVC could probably get a waiver to tide them over till eligible.

There's nothing in the D1 manual about a one-sport eligibility clause. The only sports that will be eligible are those that are already classified as National Collegiate Division. A waiver is just 2 years. The OVC will be down to 5 football teams and will have until July 1, 2024 to add eligible men's team sport-playing members.

Quote:20.02.5.5 Grace Period. A conference shall continue to be considered a multisport conference for two years following the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference's noncompliance with the minimum multisport conference requirements. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

The grace period =/= a waiver. The grace period gives two years of compliance without a waiver, and if the OVC had the ability to show they were going to be in compliance soon (onboard SIU) then I am sure a waiver could be procured for the remaining amount of time.

(01-30-2022 10:42 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 05:28 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  If I were the Summit I'd be wary of this happening. They are at 7 for baseball and football only because they St.Thomas showed up. To get to 6 without St.Thomas they need affiliates (UNC for baseball, Eastern Illinois for soccer) and Western Illinois for both sports.

If I were in Sioux Falls or Fargo, I'd be looking at inviting Eastern Illinois and SIUE to the Summit. This would get baseball to 9 and soccer to 8.

The MAC is going to think they are the core of a soccer league (they had 5 of 7 teams in the NCAAT in 2021), including 3 of 4 of the MAC schools. If they can't get affiliates, I'd think they would look at affiliating with the Horizon League. It would certainly cut down on travel.

It is quite possible one of the OVC or Summit dies if the right moves take place. If Western Illinois leaves the Summit, this makes things very hard for the Summit.

The Summit would really need UMKC to add baseball, as the Summit would be down to NDSU, SDSU, Omaha, Oral Roberts, St. Thomas, and affiliate Northern Colorado. I'm not sure Sacramento State is attainable as an affiliate.

They also technically need two men's soccer members - the conference needs to volunteer North Dakota and South Dakota since that would make more sense for them than baseball. If Eastern Illinois is off the table, there would at least be options for affiliates with Houston Baptist, Air Force, San Jose State, and UNLV.

Finishing off the OVC by taking Eastern Illinois and SIU Edwardsville would be a good form of life insurance for the Summit:

Denver, UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, St. Thomas,
Omaha, WIU, EIU, SIUE, ORU, Kansas City

Aside from Denver, this lends itself to natural North/South divisions, which even if they exist only for scheduling, would reduce travel for the new members.

Western Illinois is a charter member of the Summit League. They stayed put through all the years when Central Connecticut, Troy, Centenary, Southern Utah were members. Bunches of teams have moved up to DI and then left when they came across a more stable home.

The Dakota schools have finally given some stability to the conference. They are unlikely to leave. It's a long way to Montana, let alone Arizona and California. The only real risk might be if the MVC split with Northern Iowa, Missouri State, and Illinois State joining a new football sponsoring league, and the other MVC schools formed a basketball-oriented league.

So is Western Illinois going to join a league that has lost its Top 2 football and Top 2 basketball programs, and might be replacing them with Chicago State, which has been in East Coast Conference, the Mid-Continent Conference, and the WAC - which kicked them out.

If the remaining OVC schools are not looking for new homes their President and AD's are not doing their job. I imagine conference meetings go like this:

All: "All for one and one for all!"
President gets urgent text message:
"A book has fell over in the library"
President: "Sorry, I've got to get back to campus, there has been some sort of problem in the library.
After leaving meeting, he contacts office: "Is it the Southland or ASUN, Big South or WAC?"

(01-30-2022 03:56 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  Western Illinois is a charter member of the Summit League. They stayed put through all the years when Central Connecticut, Troy, Centenary, Southern Utah were members.

This isn't relevant. The only reason Western Illinois stayed put all those years is because it's one of the least desirable schools in D1 -- not because they were turning down other opportunities.

(01-30-2022 03:56 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  The only real risk might be if the MVC split with Northern Iowa, Missouri State, and Illinois State joining a new football sponsoring league, and the other MVC schools formed a basketball-oriented league.

This is not a risk. There is 0% chance of this happening for anyone familiar with these schools or who's worked at these schools. The only time this ever comes up on message boards by people with no grasp of these schools.

(01-30-2022 03:56 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  So is Western Illinois going to join a league that has lost its Top 2 football and Top 2 basketball programs, and might be replacing them with Chicago State, which has been in East Coast Conference, the Mid-Continent Conference, and the WAC - which kicked them out.

They might or might not, but OVC Basketball being a lesser conference makes them *more* attractive to WIU, who budget-wise is one of the most disadvantaged D1 schools relative to their conference in the country. In the OVC, they go from a runaway last place budget to middle of the pack.

WIU has been one of the least successful D1 athletic departments nation-wide, much in part due to how much they lag behind the other Summit schools. Switching to the OVC gives them a fighting chance at success. If WIU turns down the OVC, it's because of stability and football, not because the OVC is weaker in all other sports.

(01-30-2022 04:13 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(01-30-2022 03:56 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  Western Illinois is a charter member of the Summit League. They stayed put through all the years when Central Connecticut, Troy, Centenary, Southern Utah were members.

This isn't relevant. The only reason Western Illinois stayed put all those years is because it's one of the least desirable schools in D1 -- not because they were turning down other opportunities.

(01-30-2022 03:56 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  The only real risk might be if the MVC split with Northern Iowa, Missouri State, and Illinois State joining a new football sponsoring league, and the other MVC schools formed a basketball-oriented league.

This is not a risk. There is 0% chance of this happening for anyone familiar with these schools or who's worked at these schools. The only time this ever comes up on message boards by people with no grasp of these schools.

(01-30-2022 03:56 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  So is Western Illinois going to join a league that has lost its Top 2 football and Top 2 basketball programs, and might be replacing them with Chicago State, which has been in East Coast Conference, the Mid-Continent Conference, and the WAC - which kicked them out.

They might or might not, but OVC Basketball being a lesser conference makes them *more* attractive to WIU, who budget-wise is one of the most disadvantaged D1 schools relative to their conference in the country. In the OVC, they go from a runaway last place budget to middle of the pack.

WIU has been one of the least successful D1 athletic departments nation-wide, much in part due to how much they lag behind the other Summit schools. Switching to the OVC gives them a fighting chance at success. If WIU turns down the OVC, it's because of stability and football, not because the OVC is weaker in all other sports.

Those three schools out of the MVC may take the risk and upgrade to FBS, not to another FCS football league that will be a downgrade.

I'd say the biggest risk of WIU leaving for the OVC would be if UMKC joins the MVC, which throws more doubt onto the Summit's viability. That only happens if Missouri State goes FBS, and that is off the table. Even if it does happen, UMKC is still less qualified than several schools in the Horizon League.

(01-30-2022 08:55 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  I'd say the biggest risk of WIU leaving for the OVC would be if UMKC joins the MVC, which throws more doubt onto the Summit's viability. That only happens if Missouri State goes FBS, and that is off the table. Even if it does happen, UMKC is still less qualified than several schools in the Horizon League.

Define qualified. Especially when talking about recruiting students from major metros is seen as more important by school Presidents than average NET.

(01-30-2022 08:55 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  I'd say the biggest risk of WIU leaving for the OVC would be if UMKC joins the MVC, which throws more doubt onto the Summit's viability. That only happens if Missouri State goes FBS, and that is off the table. Even if it does happen, UMKC is still less qualified than several schools in the Horizon League.

The UMKC bid I believe was predicated on UTA also joining and with them in the WAC and the MVC at 12 with Murray/UIC that is on the backburner.

Of course as I've mentioned The Summit could go in with Minnesota schools en mass for survival if it needed. How do the Wisconsin schools feel about the Summit now that UIC has bolted for the MWC? Maybe the Horizon will continue to track east and add Niagara and Canisius for all we know.

I read MVC may not be done expanding yet. They are still looking at markets from large cities.

UMKC
Oral Roberts
Dallas Baptist already an affiliate in baseball
Omaha
Central Oklahoma
Little Rock
Bellarmine
Newman
Washburn
St. Thomas
NDSU
Milwaukee
Green Bay
Detroit Mercy


Yes, they are running out of large markets right now at D1 where they have to look at D2 where there are a lot of schools in large markets.

(01-31-2022 02:41 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I read MVC may not be done expanding yet. They are still looking at markets from large cities.

UMKC
Oral Roberts
Dallas Baptist already an affiliate in baseball
Omaha
Central Oklahoma
Little Rock
Bellarmine
Newman
Washburn
St. Thomas
NDSU
Milwaukee
Green Bay
Detroit Mercy


Yes, they are running out of large markets right now at D1 where they have to look at D2 where there are a lot of schools in large markets.

Would you mind sharing where you read this? Or these names? My understanding is that half the schools you could be real candidates while the others have been passed over recently and don't stand a real chance (Little Rock, Oral Roberts etc.) or (looking at you, Newman, Washburn, and Dallas Baptist) have no real chance of becoming DI, to say nothing of being MVC candidates. Washburn, for example, is literally funded municipally by the city of Topeka so it seems unlikely that an upgrade is in the cards for them.

(01-30-2022 10:42 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 05:28 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  If I were the Summit I'd be wary of this happening. They are at 7 for baseball and football only because they St.Thomas showed up. To get to 6 without St.Thomas they need affiliates (UNC for baseball, Eastern Illinois for soccer) and Western Illinois for both sports.

If I were in Sioux Falls or Fargo, I'd be looking at inviting Eastern Illinois and SIUE to the Summit. This would get baseball to 9 and soccer to 8.

The MAC is going to think they are the core of a soccer league (they had 5 of 7 teams in the NCAAT in 2021), including 3 of 4 of the MAC schools. If they can't get affiliates, I'd think they would look at affiliating with the Horizon League. It would certainly cut down on travel.

It is quite possible one of the OVC or Summit dies if the right moves take place. If Western Illinois leaves the Summit, this makes things very hard for the Summit.

The Summit would really need UMKC to add baseball, as the Summit would be down to NDSU, SDSU, Omaha, Oral Roberts, St. Thomas, and affiliate Northern Colorado. I'm not sure Sacramento State is attainable as an affiliate.

They also technically need two men's soccer members - the conference needs to volunteer North Dakota and South Dakota since that would make more sense for them than baseball. If Eastern Illinois is off the table, there would at least be options for affiliates with Houston Baptist, Air Force, San Jose State, and UNLV.

Finishing off the OVC by taking Eastern Illinois and SIU Edwardsville would be a good form of life insurance for the Summit:

Denver, UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, St. Thomas,
Omaha, WIU, EIU, SIUE, ORU, Kansas City

Aside from Denver, this lends itself to natural North/South divisions, which even if they exist only for scheduling, would reduce travel for the new members.

How about this:

East: WIU, EIU, SIUE, St. Thomas
North: 4 Dakotas
South: Denver, UMKC, Omaha, ORU

Play your pod twice annually, play the other pods once for 14 games.

Then either alternate the 2 teams from the other 2 pods to play a 2nd time to get 18 games or have the 1s and 2s play each other and the 3s and 4s based on pod standings after 14 games to get the final 4 games.

(02-01-2022 04:26 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  

(01-30-2022 10:42 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 05:28 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  If I were the Summit I'd be wary of this happening. They are at 7 for baseball and football only because they St.Thomas showed up. To get to 6 without St.Thomas they need affiliates (UNC for baseball, Eastern Illinois for soccer) and Western Illinois for both sports.

If I were in Sioux Falls or Fargo, I'd be looking at inviting Eastern Illinois and SIUE to the Summit. This would get baseball to 9 and soccer to 8.

The MAC is going to think they are the core of a soccer league (they had 5 of 7 teams in the NCAAT in 2021), including 3 of 4 of the MAC schools. If they can't get affiliates, I'd think they would look at affiliating with the Horizon League. It would certainly cut down on travel.

It is quite possible one of the OVC or Summit dies if the right moves take place. If Western Illinois leaves the Summit, this makes things very hard for the Summit.

The Summit would really need UMKC to add baseball, as the Summit would be down to NDSU, SDSU, Omaha, Oral Roberts, St. Thomas, and affiliate Northern Colorado. I'm not sure Sacramento State is attainable as an affiliate.

They also technically need two men's soccer members - the conference needs to volunteer North Dakota and South Dakota since that would make more sense for them than baseball. If Eastern Illinois is off the table, there would at least be options for affiliates with Houston Baptist, Air Force, San Jose State, and UNLV.

Finishing off the OVC by taking Eastern Illinois and SIU Edwardsville would be a good form of life insurance for the Summit:

Denver, UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, St. Thomas,
Omaha, WIU, EIU, SIUE, ORU, Kansas City

Aside from Denver, this lends itself to natural North/South divisions, which even if they exist only for scheduling, would reduce travel for the new members.

How about this:

East: WIU, EIU, SIUE, St. Thomas
North: 4 Dakotas
South: Denver, UMKC, Omaha, ORU

Play your pod twice annually, play the other pods once for 14 games.

Then either alternate the 2 teams from the other 2 pods to play a 2nd time to get 18 games or have the 1s and 2s play each other and the 3s and 4s based on pod standings after 14 games to get the final 4 games.

Maybe a division with Morehead St, Tennessee - Martin, Tennessee St, and Tennessee Tech if we’re blowing up the OVC?

(01-30-2022 04:13 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(01-30-2022 03:56 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  Western Illinois is a charter member of the Summit League. They stayed put through all the years when Central Connecticut, Troy, Centenary, Southern Utah were members.

This isn't relevant. The only reason Western Illinois stayed put all those years is because it's one of the least desirable schools in D1 -- not because they were turning down other opportunities.

The OVC is NOT an opportunity. It has lost its Top 2 football programs, plus two others. It has lost its Top 2 basketball programs. It is bringing in schools that don't have football teams. Eastern Illinois has got to realize they made a mistake going to the OVC. Tennessee State has got to be looking elsewhere.

(01-30-2022 03:56 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  The only real risk might be if the MVC split with Northern Iowa, Missouri State, and Illinois State joining a new football sponsoring league, and the other MVC schools formed a basketball-oriented league.

This is not a risk. There is 0% chance of this happening for anyone familiar with these schools or who's worked at these schools. The only time this ever comes up on message boards by people with no grasp of these schools.

That is precisely the point. There is zero risk of this happening and leaving Western Illinois in the lurch. If a league does not sponsor football, they have to sponsor baseball and soccer. The college baseball season starts in February. If you are in Grand Forks you would have to start the season on the road for three months. If you are a football school (or hockey school) it makes it hard to sponsor soccer for Title IX reasons. You need schools that play baseball and soccer to keep you in DI.

(01-30-2022 03:56 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  So is Western Illinois going to join a league that has lost its Top 2 football and Top 2 basketball programs, and might be replacing them with Chicago State, which has been in East Coast Conference, the Mid-Continent Conference, and the WAC - which kicked them out.

They might or might not, but OVC Basketball being a lesser conference makes them *more* attractive to WIU, who budget-wise is one of the most disadvantaged D1 schools relative to their conference in the country. In the OVC, they go from a runaway last place budget to middle of the pack.

WIU has been one of the least successful D1 athletic departments nation-wide, much in part due to how much they lag behind the other Summit schools. Switching to the OVC gives them a fighting chance at success. If WIU turns down the OVC, it's because of stability and football, not because the OVC is weaker in all other sports.

The OVC has lost five teams, including four football teams. Eastern Illinois and Tennessee State could/should leave.

The Summit should take Eastern Illinois and SIUE. Eastern Illinois and Murray State could then join the MVFC, which switches to two divisions: Northern: 4 Dakotas, Northern Iowa, and Youngstown State. Southern: Missouri State, Western Illinois, Eastern Illinois, Illinois State, Indiana State, and Murray State (Western Illinois is likely upper part of the division).

(01-30-2022 08:42 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-30-2022 04:13 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(01-30-2022 03:56 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  Western Illinois is a charter member of the Summit League. They stayed put through all the years when Central Connecticut, Troy, Centenary, Southern Utah were members.

This isn't relevant. The only reason Western Illinois stayed put all those years is because it's one of the least desirable schools in D1 -- not because they were turning down other opportunities.

(01-30-2022 03:56 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  The only real risk might be if the MVC split with Northern Iowa, Missouri State, and Illinois State joining a new football sponsoring league, and the other MVC schools formed a basketball-oriented league.

This is not a risk. There is 0% chance of this happening for anyone familiar with these schools or who's worked at these schools. The only time this ever comes up on message boards by people with no grasp of these schools.

(01-30-2022 03:56 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  So is Western Illinois going to join a league that has lost its Top 2 football and Top 2 basketball programs, and might be replacing them with Chicago State, which has been in East Coast Conference, the Mid-Continent Conference, and the WAC - which kicked them out.

They might or might not, but OVC Basketball being a lesser conference makes them *more* attractive to WIU, who budget-wise is one of the most disadvantaged D1 schools relative to their conference in the country. In the OVC, they go from a runaway last place budget to middle of the pack.

WIU has been one of the least successful D1 athletic departments nation-wide, much in part due to how much they lag behind the other Summit schools. Switching to the OVC gives them a fighting chance at success. If WIU turns down the OVC, it's because of stability and football, not because the OVC is weaker in all other sports.

Those three schools out of the MVC may take the risk and upgrade to FBS, not to another FCS football league that will be a downgrade.

An FCS football league with NDSU and SDSU is not a downgrade.

This would let schools like Indiana State, Southern Illinois, Youngstown State, and Robert Morris affiliate with OVC football, saving the league.