(09-22-2021 10:28 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  How about just survival as institutions?

A lot of HBCU's are about the same level of academics as the OVC and Horizon League schools that are struggling to adapt as the world of higher education changes.

"...about the same level of academics as the......Horizon League schools". What HL institutions are struggling to adapt? Are you talking athletics or academics? Either way, outside of Howard & Hampton, none of the HBCU's compare academically or athletically with the Horizon League and Howard and Hampton only academically. Don't know about the OVC, but don't lump the HL with them.

I look at the total enrollment for which schools that are in trouble or not.

The lone HBCU with the most enrollment is in Texas with no athletics.

Level 1:
Howard U.
North Carolina Central
Tennessee State
Florida A&M
Texas Southern
Prairie View
Southern
North Carolina A&T
Jackson State
Virginia State
Albany State

Level 2:
Morgan State
Norfolk State
Alabama A&M
Grambling State
Winston-Salem
Bowie State
Fayetteville State
Savannah State
Clark Atlanta

Level 3:
Delaware State
UMES
South Carolina State
Coppin State
Alabama State
Alcorn State
Bethune-Cookman
UAPB
Mississippi Valley State
Chicago State
Hampton U.
Shaw
Elizabeth City State
Virginia Union
Johnson C. Smith
Livingstone
Bluefield State
Morehouse
Tuskegee
Central State Ohio
Fort Valley State
Benedict
Kentucky State
Langston
Texas College
Virgin Island
Arkansas Baptist

On Life Support:
Lincoln, Pa.
Claflin
Saint Augustine's
Lincoln, Mo.
West Virginia State
Lane
Miles
Edward Waters
Lemoyne-Owen
Huston-Tillotson
Virginia-Lynchburg
Paine
Clinton
Cheyney
Talladega
Stillman
Xavier, LA.
Wiley
Dillard
Fisk
Philander Smith
Rust
Tougaloo
Jarvis Christian
Paul Quinn
Oakwood

The Peurto Rico schools would be level 1.
All the Native American schools would be life support.

Life support level are for schools that have less than 1000 students and any schools above 1000 who are in deeply dire debt.

Spring Hill is not an HBCU, nor is Chicago State.

(09-22-2021 08:08 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Spring Hill is not an HBCU, nor is Chicago State.

I will take Spring Hill out, but Chicago State is still call an HBCU which they are not. They are being treated as one.

(09-22-2021 08:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I will take Spring Hill out, but Chicago State is still call an HBCU which they are not. They are being treated as one.

Correct--Chicago State is predominately black but not "historically" black as it was not built for African American students as the HBCU name implies.

By contrast, West Virginia State and Bluefield State retain HBCU designation even as both schools are now predominately white, with just 7% black students at WV State.

(09-22-2021 04:13 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(09-22-2021 09:57 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  How do you view the individual Division I HBCUs? Which are the name brands in your mind? Which are best suited to remain in Division I?

My List (groups ordered from safest to least):

Level I
Florida A&M
Hampton
Howard
Jackson St (in my top group before Coach Deion Sanders joined)
North Carolina A&T
Tennessee St

Level II
Alcorn St
Bethune-Cookman
Grambling St
North Carolina Central
Southern
Texas Southern

Level III
Alabama A&M
Alabama St
Arkansas - Pine Bluff
Coppin St
Delaware St
Maryland - Eastern Shore
Mississippi Valley St
Morgan St
Prairie View A&M
South Carolina St

Please let me know where I'm wrong!

Swap PVAMU and TSU

Prairie View has a bright future, it's growing within the Texas A&M system.

Texas Southern has been on life support in the recent past, has been bowled over by controversies and is redundant and not part of a major university system. Their academics are worse than PV's.

Not at all biased if you can believe that.

IMO, both PVAM and Texas Southern are strong institutions.

PVAM has really enhanced itself, academically and athletically, over the past 10 or so years.

(09-22-2021 03:37 PM)maybeimhere Wrote:  After the donation from Mackenzie Scott last year, PVAMU has announced their endowment to be pushed to near $130M
https://www.pvamu.edu/blog/a-gift-to-pva...niversity/

Heck, that's almost as large as UCF's endowment. And beats the hell out of UCF's per-capita.

I remember reading about 10 years ago about a librarian at PVA&M who lived very frugally and donated 1 million to the school on his death. A neat story, but I can not find the link to it.

(09-22-2021 08:19 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(09-22-2021 08:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I will take Spring Hill out, but Chicago State is still call an HBCU which they are not. They are being treated as one.

Correct--Chicago State is predominately black but not "historically" black as it was not built for African American students as the HBCU name implies.

By contrast, West Virginia State and Bluefield State retain HBCU designation even as both schools are now predominately white, with just 7% black students at WV State.

It's rather hard to fathom West Virginia would be home to an HBCU given that state's modest Black population.

(09-22-2021 10:34 AM)mufanatehc Wrote:  

(09-22-2021 09:57 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  How do you view the individual Division I HBCUs? Which are the name brands in your mind? Which are best suited to remain in Division I?

My List (groups ordered from safest to least):

Level I
Florida A&M
Hampton
Howard
Jackson St (in my top group before Coach Deion Sanders joined)
North Carolina A&T
Tennessee St

Level II
Alcorn St
Bethune-Cookman
Grambling St
North Carolina Central
Southern
Texas Southern

Level III
Alabama A&M
Alabama St
Arkansas - Pine Bluff
Coppin St
Delaware St
Maryland - Eastern Shore
Mississippi Valley St
Morgan St
Prairie View A&M
South Carolina St

Please let me know where I'm wrong!

With their new stadium, I would move Alabama St. up to Level I. I would also add Norfolk St. to Level II and move Texas Southern and NCCU to Level I.



Edit: after doing some more research Prarie View should also be in Level I as well.



Overall, as long as the MEAC and SWAC continue to exist, I'm not sure there is really any pressure for for even the financially weakest members of those conferences to go down a level.

Alabama State is absolutely tier 1. Their support is off the charts relative to most HBCUs. Their gameday experience rivals that of a couple of FBS schools where I’ve attended games (UVA, AFA). And that was when they played off campus. Their donors paid for a larger stadium, on campus despite the old one not being too far away. But I 85 was a big barrier.

Howard is in a class of its own.

(09-22-2021 08:01 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I look at the total enrollment for which schools that are in trouble or not.

The lone HBCU with the most enrollment is in Texas with no athletics.

If you're talking about St.Philips, it's a Junior College so it wouldn't even qualify.

(09-22-2021 05:18 PM)Chuck_A Wrote:  

(09-22-2021 10:28 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  How about just survival as institutions?

A lot of HBCU's are about the same level of academics as the OVC and Horizon League schools that are struggling to adapt as the world of higher education changes.

"...about the same level of academics as the......Horizon League schools". What HL institutions are struggling to adapt? Are you talking athletics or academics? Either way, outside of Howard & Hampton, none of the HBCU's compare academically or athletically with the Horizon League and Howard and Hampton only academically. Don't know about the OVC, but don't lump the HL with them.

Wright State is so far gone that it is unsalvageable.

Youngstown State, UW-Milwaukee, Fort Wayne, and Robert Morris are in precipitous declines.

Your institution (Illinois-Chicago) is fine. But that stability does not extend to the rest of your conference.