I look at these P5 schools going so far out of the way to get a FCS buy game, and probably the cheapest, as being a big failure for football at the level. Scheduling never used to be this hard, but schools have massively overthought this and likely due to the stipidity posed by the playoff and bowl system. You aid a mediocre team with FCS tripe because it’s a better path to six wins. Just sad. First, big schools needed an arbitrary amount of home games, and now they need these wins.

It would be a bit more understandable if you roped in one of the FCS UC or Cal State schools...this is just a reach.

(02-24-2021 04:45 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-24-2021 04:17 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(02-24-2021 03:48 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(02-24-2021 03:42 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-24-2021 03:22 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Makes no sense to me. Just another way to schedule a home game, easy win and not pay much while appearing nice to HBCU's.

And giving money to those universities. Cincinnati played Alabama A&M a couple years ago and someone asked the A&M coach what did you take out of the matchup. Instead of saying something like getting a game on TV or a chance to play a school that has been ranked in the Top 25 he honestly answered “The only thing we get out of it is $500,000.”

How ungrateful. If you can only operate a football program by playing rent-a-victim body bag games then maybe you shouldn’t field an FCS football team. Even the FCS patsies know they are there to play the role of the Washington Generals. These sporting events aren’t games—they’re exhibitions where the outcome is already pre-determined.

If you eliminate the schools that can play FCS full scholarship football without playing FBS teams to balance the books you would be down to like four programs.

No FCS athletic departments are even close to balancing revenue and expenses. Alabama State, for example, has about $2 million of real revenue in an annual budget of over $13 million, per the USA Today database. There is only one FCS athletic department that has less than 40 percent of its budget covered by university funds -- North Dakota State, which is at about 30% subsidy. All but about five FCS programs have 60 to 90 percent of their annual budget paid by university funds, meaning their actual revenue covers only 10 to 40 percent of expenses.

$500,000 from a money game doesn't even come close to balancing the books when the difference between expenses and revenues is between $10 million and $20 million per year.

Alabama State doesn't run as much of an operating deficit as most G5 do. Most G5 have subsidies in the $20 million range and above.

If we are going to start lopping off programs based on inability to balance the books, the biggest culprits are the "striver" G5 that are spending subsidized money hand over fist to create an aura of "big time" status.

(02-24-2021 03:48 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(02-24-2021 03:42 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-24-2021 03:22 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Makes no sense to me. Just another way to schedule a home game, easy win and not pay much while appearing nice to HBCU's.

And giving money to those universities. Cincinnati played Alabama A&M a couple years ago and someone asked the A&M coach what did you take out of the matchup. Instead of saying something like getting a game on TV or a chance to play a school that has been ranked in the Top 25 he honestly answered “The only thing we get out of it is $500,000.”

How ungrateful. If you can only operate a football program by playing rent-a-victim body bag games then maybe you shouldn’t field an FCS football team. Even the FCS patsies know they are there to play the role of the Washington Generals. These sporting events aren’t games—they’re exhibitions where the outcome is already pre-determined.

I bet Cincy has a bigger structural football budget deficit than Alabama A&M. Cincy should be grateful that Alabama A&M agreed to play the game.

(02-24-2021 06:01 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(02-24-2021 05:54 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  

(02-24-2021 05:36 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Has an HBCU football team played in SoCal? I'm guessing there might have been a Classic of some sort in L.A. once upon a time but I'm struggling to recall it. But tapping into the Black population who may have watched HBCU games on TV and band performances and step shows on YouTube but never actually seen it in person has some potential, I'd think. Sort of like Notre Dame playing in Ireland.

Prairie View played NC A&T in the Coliseum in 2007.
The linked LA Times article mentions games played there as "classics" prior to 2007 in addition to games played against Cal State LA and Fullerton in the 70's.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-...story.html

Good find. Sounds like there's definitely a market for it, and would be a better draw for UCLA than a typical FCS opponent.

That game had 32K in attendance and by looking at the bands at halftimeon YouTube, it sounds more legit than most attendance numbers even at the old coliseum. The 2008 game allegedly had 20,000 more but had that been the case I would have assumed it would've survived since it was past the economic downturn

(02-24-2021 07:31 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  

(02-24-2021 06:01 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(02-24-2021 05:54 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  

(02-24-2021 05:36 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Has an HBCU football team played in SoCal? I'm guessing there might have been a Classic of some sort in L.A. once upon a time but I'm struggling to recall it. But tapping into the Black population who may have watched HBCU games on TV and band performances and step shows on YouTube but never actually seen it in person has some potential, I'd think. Sort of like Notre Dame playing in Ireland.

Prairie View played NC A&T in the Coliseum in 2007.
The linked LA Times article mentions games played there as "classics" prior to 2007 in addition to games played against Cal State LA and Fullerton in the 70's.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-...story.html

Good find. Sounds like there's definitely a market for it, and would be a better draw for UCLA than a typical FCS opponent.

That game had 32K in attendance and by looking at the bands at halftimeon YouTube, it sounds more legit than most attendance numbers even at the old coliseum. The 2008 game allegedly had 20,000 more but had that been the case I would have assumed it would've survived since it was past the economic downturn

The SWAC almost always leads the FCS in conference attendance.

(02-24-2021 04:45 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-24-2021 04:17 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(02-24-2021 03:48 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(02-24-2021 03:42 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-24-2021 03:22 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Makes no sense to me. Just another way to schedule a home game, easy win and not pay much while appearing nice to HBCU's.

And giving money to those universities. Cincinnati played Alabama A&M a couple years ago and someone asked the A&M coach what did you take out of the matchup. Instead of saying something like getting a game on TV or a chance to play a school that has been ranked in the Top 25 he honestly answered “The only thing we get out of it is $500,000.”

How ungrateful. If you can only operate a football program by playing rent-a-victim body bag games then maybe you shouldn’t field an FCS football team. Even the FCS patsies know they are there to play the role of the Washington Generals. These sporting events aren’t games—they’re exhibitions where the outcome is already pre-determined.

If you eliminate the schools that can play FCS full scholarship football without playing FBS teams to balance the books you would be down to like four programs.

No FCS athletic departments are even close to balancing revenue and expenses. Alabama State, for example, has about $2 million of real revenue in an annual budget of over $13 million, per the USA Today database. There is only one FCS athletic department that has less than 40 percent of its budget covered by university funds -- North Dakota State, which is at about 30% subsidy. All but about five FCS programs have 60 to 90 percent of their annual budget paid by university funds, meaning their actual revenue covers only 10 to 40 percent of expenses.

$500,000 from a money game doesn't even come close to balancing the books when the difference between expenses and revenues is between $10 million and $20 million per year.

Yes. Less "balance the budget" than "make the losses palatable to the powers that be."

(02-24-2021 02:37 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  UCLA will play Alabama State (SWAC) in 2022 and NC-Central (MEAC) in 2023 in the Rose Bowl stadium.

These are the first-ever games vs HBCUs for UCLA. They will also be the first games vs FCS ever for UCLA, which has never played an FCS team since the 1978 divisional split.

IIRC, this leaves Notre Dame as the only FBS school never to schedule an FCS team, though they and USC have never yet played one. Personally, I'd like to see Notre Dame schedule an HBCU as well.


https://fbschedules.com/ucla-to-host-ala...l-in-2023/

UCLA can pretend they are playing Duke when NC Central comes to town. Duke basketball players have been known to take most of their classes on the campus of NC Central which is also located in Durham.

California played Grambling State September 5 2015. California won 73 to 14.

(02-24-2021 07:58 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-24-2021 02:37 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  UCLA will play Alabama State (SWAC) in 2022 and NC-Central (MEAC) in 2023 in the Rose Bowl stadium.

These are the first-ever games vs HBCUs for UCLA. They will also be the first games vs FCS ever for UCLA, which has never played an FCS team since the 1978 divisional split.

IIRC, this leaves Notre Dame as the only FBS school never to schedule an FCS team, though they and USC have never yet played one. Personally, I'd like to see Notre Dame schedule an HBCU as well.


https://fbschedules.com/ucla-to-host-ala...l-in-2023/

UCLA can pretend they are playing Duke when NC Central comes to town. Duke basketball players have been known to take most of their classes on the campus of NC Central which is also located in Durham.

So Duke students are actually NCCU students, but play for Duke somehow?

(02-24-2021 06:21 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I look at these P5 schools going so far out of the way to get a FCS buy game, and probably the cheapest, as being a big failure for football at the level. Scheduling never used to be this hard, but schools have massively overthought this and likely due to the stipidity posed by the playoff and bowl system. You aid a mediocre team with FCS tripe because it’s a better path to six wins. Just sad. First, big schools needed an arbitrary amount of home games, and now they need these wins.

It would be a bit more understandable if you roped in one of the FCS UC or Cal State schools...this is just a reach.

Eh, rather than scheduling a random Cal-State this or State-Cal that school, they are bringing in HBCUs from another part of the country, exposing UCLA fans to the rich tradition of southern HBCU football.

Sure, if I'm a UCLA fan I'd have much rather seen the originally scheduled game vs Michigan. But if we are going to play some OOC games against non-P5, I'd be much more interested in seeing one of these HBCUs than a random California FCS.

(02-24-2021 02:37 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  UCLA will play Alabama State (SWAC) in 2022 and NC-Central (MEAC) in 2023 in the Rose Bowl stadium.

These are the first-ever games vs HBCUs for UCLA. They will also be the first games vs FCS ever for UCLA, which has never played an FCS team since the 1978 divisional split.

IIRC, this leaves Notre Dame as the only FBS school never to schedule an FCS team, though they and USC have never yet played one. Personally, I'd like to see Notre Dame schedule an HBCU as well.


https://fbschedules.com/ucla-to-host-ala...l-in-2023/

A really bad move by the new AD. “Adding two HBCUs [historically Black colleges and universities] to our football schedule is special,” UCLA athletic director Martin Jarmond, whose late mother, Virginia, graduated from North Carolina Central, said in a statement. “It’s exciting to give our student-athletes and fans a new experience and to bring a little bit of the South to Southern California.”

What a bunch of garbage. UCLA plays LSU on September 4th at the Rose Bowl. That is special. That will be more than enough of the South for the Bruins. Maybe playing North Carolina Central is a way of honoring his Mom, but that is not what Bruin fans are going to want to see. It is hard enough to get fans to show up to September games against G5 schools. For a September 7th, 2019 game at the Rose Bowl against San Diego State, the game drew 36,951 fans, with about half of those being San Diego State fans. It has been a point of pride for Bruin fans that the school has never played an FCS school. A really dumb move that is not going to sit well with the alumni.

This is unfortunate. I get it, some schools have to play an FCS school by necessity.

But USC and UCLA should NEVER have to stoop to that! They are brand names in the SoCal market. They should be able to easily schedule a top-name-brand home-and-home for 1 OOC game, and then fill in the other 2 slots with 1-off home games and/or 1-or-2-for-1s with BYU and MWC schools.

Is there a single MWC school that would be uninterested in games in the SoCal market, games at the Rose Bowl???

----------

UCLA's 2021 OOC schedule fits my model. LSU, Hawaii and Fresno State - all at home.

UCLA's 2022 OOC schedule is an embarrassment. BGSU, Alabama State and South Alabama --- not a single one of these schools is west of the Mississippi River! --- all at home.

UCLA's 2023 OOC schedule is only marginally better (Coastal Carolina, at San Diego State and NC Central).

The 2024-2026 OOC schedules all at least go back to my model (at LSU/vs UNLV/vs Fresno ...... Georgia/at UNLV/vs New Mexico ..... at Georgia/vs San Diego St/vs Nevada).

(02-24-2021 10:11 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-24-2021 06:21 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I look at these P5 schools going so far out of the way to get a FCS buy game, and probably the cheapest, as being a big failure for football at the level. Scheduling never used to be this hard, but schools have massively overthought this and likely due to the stipidity posed by the playoff and bowl system. You aid a mediocre team with FCS tripe because it’s a better path to six wins. Just sad. First, big schools needed an arbitrary amount of home games, and now they need these wins.

It would be a bit more understandable if you roped in one of the FCS UC or Cal State schools...this is just a reach.

Eh, rather than scheduling a random Cal-State this or State-Cal that school, they are bringing in HBCUs from another part of the country, exposing UCLA fans to the rich tradition of southern HBCU football.

Sure, if I'm a UCLA fan I'd have much rather seen the originally scheduled game vs Michigan. But if we are going to play some OOC games against non-P5, I'd be much more interested in seeing one of these HBCUs than a random California FCS.

I don’t disagree that a Cali-FCS game would be boring (Davis has shown up on other Pac schedules, including Stanford and Cal a few times), but it’s politically logical and can serve as some intrastate banter.

It’s nothing against the HBCU’s. If UCLA wants to get cozy with a southern FCS program, there’s plenty for them in SoCon, Big South, CAAF, and OVC in the same footprint as MEAC. They just don’t work for as cheap and are likely for a better fight. Or, heck, just tap into “cheap” FBS fare, like Sun Belt or CUSA. Oh, wait...there is good football there. Can’t schedule that!

FCS was avoided for so long that this selection screams cheap easy home win. Nothing to get excited about. Looks desperate as anything.

Interesting news on UCLA - I'm an alum there (class of 1986) although I've lived in Houston ever since hence my screen name.

IMO, UCLA has always had the type of schedule it has for a combination of reasons - mostly financial but also geographical. Their football program has never been financially successful (even when I was a student there and we made the Rose Bowl 3 times, we wouldn't draw that great outside of the big rival games). UCLA's home stadium is the Rose Bowl which is a good trek away in Burbank from the UCLA campus and even further away from the majority of the African-American neighborhoods of Los Angeles (which are closer to the USC campus). I suppose demographics might have changed quite a bit since I left town, but that's how it used to be at least.

UCLA never offered as much of a guarantee as many larger schools, even though it's not cheap to fly to Los Angeles (especially if you're an eastern team). The time zone issue is also problematic since teams would be flying home after the game. UCLA usually would have a California school or two on its NC schedule (used to be patsies Long Beach State and Fullerton before they dropped their programs, but then it was normally San Diego State, Fresno State or San Jose State). And they'd get a few bigger schools out of the Big 8, Big 10, Big 12 or state of Texas. I'd bet you they had way more home and home series than USC in comparison (which is a private and much richer school).

Also, 1.2 million blacks in Los Angeles is still a lot. That alone would be the 10th largest city in the country.

From what I have read the band's will be going to the games as well.

(02-24-2021 11:04 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(02-24-2021 10:11 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-24-2021 06:21 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I look at these P5 schools going so far out of the way to get a FCS buy game, and probably the cheapest, as being a big failure for football at the level. Scheduling never used to be this hard, but schools have massively overthought this and likely due to the stipidity posed by the playoff and bowl system. You aid a mediocre team with FCS tripe because it’s a better path to six wins. Just sad. First, big schools needed an arbitrary amount of home games, and now they need these wins.

It would be a bit more understandable if you roped in one of the FCS UC or Cal State schools...this is just a reach.

Eh, rather than scheduling a random Cal-State this or State-Cal that school, they are bringing in HBCUs from another part of the country, exposing UCLA fans to the rich tradition of southern HBCU football.

Sure, if I'm a UCLA fan I'd have much rather seen the originally scheduled game vs Michigan. But if we are going to play some OOC games against non-P5, I'd be much more interested in seeing one of these HBCUs than a random California FCS.

I don’t disagree that a Cali-FCS game would be boring (Davis has shown up on other Pac schedules, including Stanford and Cal a few times), but it’s politically logical and can serve as some intrastate banter.

It would not surprise me if politics were behind the scheduling of the HBCU games, as in the politics of recognizing historically black institutions.

(02-24-2021 05:33 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-24-2021 05:18 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Advertising it as doing a solid for HBCUs is what trips me up. They're treating the games as if its a completely different situation than scheduling Southern Utah or Northern Colorado - which is not. I'm all for HBCUs getting higher profile games. I want to see that group of schools succeed at the highest levels. However, this is really UCLA trying to save face for substituting their games with Michigan with FCS schools and I can't blame them.

Michigan cancelled that series and left UCLA in a bad spot, not only because they had to replace those games but because it's impossible to replace the game-day revenue they would have gotten from one home game vs. Michigan.

The real issue with playing FCS teams is this: Whether UCLA plays an HBCU at home, or Southern Utah, or Northern Colorado, or, Utah State or Colorado State, the issue, from the accounting point of view, is that paying a G5 team to play there costs twice as much as paying an FCS team, while generating about the same amount of game-day revenue.

It would be nice if these decisions could be made without regard to money, but that's not the world in which college football exists.

It's just Michigan, they cancelled on us last year too.

(02-25-2021 07:51 AM)EKUSteve Wrote:  From what I have read the band's will be going to the games as well.

Yes, that apparently is in the contracts.

I recall that when Southern played at Georgia a few years ago, their contract called for SU to bring its band and play at halftime as well. These HBCU bands are usually favorites even with non-HBCU fan bases.

Southern’s band is a step above the rest of the HBCUs. Not trying to diminish Jackson State or B-CU or even Grambling, but Southern’s band is rightfully its own little cultural phenomenon.

(02-25-2021 12:30 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Southern’s band is a step above the rest of the HBCUs. Not trying to diminish Jackson State or B-CU or even Grambling, but Southern’s band is rightfully its own little cultural phenomenon.

Amen!