Centers took exactly one shot combined last night. They combined for zero points and five rebounds in 39 minutes. Elon's starting center is 6'7". That's either coaching or effort or as Bubba put it, being outmanned. Yikes.

(02-23-2021 07:16 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Centers took exactly one shot combined last night. They combined for zero points and five rebounds in 39 minutes. Elon's starting center is 6'7". That's either coaching or effort or as Bubba put it, being outmanned. Yikes.

Will be interesting to see if Elon has another tournament run in store, and how the head to head between two coaches hired at same time sorts out over next couple of years. Will be disappointing, post-Covid, if Tribe is losing ground vs this program.

I will be interesting to see the growth of our freshmen over the next 3 years combined with new talent that Dane recruits. WE all knew that this must be a growing year when you start 3 freshmen and graduated 4 starters.

The development of Lowe over the last two years with the help of Dane and his staff is truly remarkable.

Let us sit back and take a few deep breaths before looking to locate our red button.

(02-22-2021 11:28 PM)tribalwarfare Wrote:  I think I've commented on this before, but dribble penetration appears to be a core piece of Coach Fischer's offense (hard to know for sure as I haven't spoken with him yet not seen anything where he comments on his offensive philosophy). A dribble drive offense generally relies on spacing the floor and having either 1) an good big to pick and roll off of and to "punish" the post defenders when they play help defense, or 2) great shooters to penalize teams who try to sag and clog the paint. Teams have realized that we are not a good 3pt shooting team (29.3% from 3 on the year - 318th of all D-1 teams) and so they can clog the paint big time. When we don't have an elite big man like knight to punish teams in the paint, it becomes incredibly easy for teams to stymie our offense.

Great analysis and it really jives with what we've seen all year. We simply don't have the shooters to make teams pay for packing the paint against us. There's a reason so many of our possessions end with contested layups at the rim.

(02-22-2021 11:28 PM)tribalwarfare Wrote:  Defensively, again there is just not a ton we can do with the relative lack of athleticism on the perimeter. This, of course, isn't a new W&M phenomenon but it's especially notable this year because Harvey is the only thing close a rim protector on the team (and he doesn't play anywhere near the minutes that our main bigs have played in the past).

And here it seems like Dane's strategy to counter that lack of athleticism is to help on our opponents' best players and make their "worse" ones hit outside shots. The problem is when those players do exactly that like Elon did for the last 2 games.

(02-23-2021 09:02 AM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(02-22-2021 11:28 PM)tribalwarfare Wrote:  I think I've commented on this before, but dribble penetration appears to be a core piece of Coach Fischer's offense (hard to know for sure as I haven't spoken with him yet not seen anything where he comments on his offensive philosophy). A dribble drive offense generally relies on spacing the floor and having either 1) an good big to pick and roll off of and to "punish" the post defenders when they play help defense, or 2) great shooters to penalize teams who try to sag and clog the paint. Teams have realized that we are not a good 3pt shooting team (29.3% from 3 on the year - 318th of all D-1 teams) and so they can clog the paint big time. When we don't have an elite big man like knight to punish teams in the paint, it becomes incredibly easy for teams to stymie our offense.

Great analysis and it really jives with what we've seen all year. We simply don't have the shooters to make teams pay for packing the paint against us. There's a reason so many of our possessions end with contested layups at the rim.

(02-22-2021 11:28 PM)tribalwarfare Wrote:  Defensively, again there is just not a ton we can do with the relative lack of athleticism on the perimeter. This, of course, isn't a new W&M phenomenon but it's especially notable this year because Harvey is the only thing close a rim protector on the team (and he doesn't play anywhere near the minutes that our main bigs have played in the past).

And here it seems like Dane's strategy to counter that lack of athleticism is to help on our opponents' best players and make their "worse" ones hit outside shots. The problem is when those players do exactly that like Elon did for the last 2 games.

Yeah, teams were guarding shooters at the start of the season, but have abandoned that to stop the drive and we're not able to make them pay.

(02-23-2021 07:16 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Centers took exactly one shot combined last night.

And the one shot was a three-point attempt.

(02-23-2021 09:02 AM)zablenoise Wrote:  We simply don't have the shooters to make teams pay for packing the paint against us.

And the best 3-point shooter we have isn't even playing (Ayesa).

I do think that the defensive problem is more a freshman problem than an "athleticism" problem. We play bad team defense, leaving shooters we shouldn't, not rotating where we should, overplaying when there's no help, that kind of thing. This season exacerbates that problem, because there's no opportunity to get comfortable or find the "feel" of team defense. Earlier in the season we were "better" defensively because we played teams where Luke taking out one player had a bigger impact. We lose regularly when teams have great nights from 2nd and 3rd options on offense. Arguments that claim we're lacking in athleticism have to square that with our ability to get to the basket on drives regularly. It's not just ball screens getting us past the defenders.

Bobby Dwyer made an insightful statement on Saturday that I'm going to butcher here. It was along the lines of a large part of defense is about knowing where the offense wants to go. We have 3 freshmen starting that don't have that part of defense down. I watched a lot of the Elon games, and you could see the flow of their offense, and how out of sync our defense was. They knew where they wanted to go and we didn't. Our defense was mostly trying to stop whatever the primary action was, and was constantly burned by the secondary actions. To use buzzwords, we're REactive, not PROactive on defense. Coach Fischer's measure as a coach will be whether we change that.

This team basically has four good players. Loewe, Blair, Covington, and Kochera. One or two of them have a bad night offensively and we have basically no chance to win. No inside scoring threat. Nobody that shoots lights out from three. Not a winning combination to say the least.

(02-23-2021 10:48 AM)Tribester Wrote:  This team basically has four good players. Loewe, Blair, Covington, and Kochera. One or two of them have a bad night offensively and we have basically no chance to win. No inside scoring threat. Nobody that shoots lights out from three. Not a winning combination to say the least.

No, that's wrong. Those are our best players, but you're overreacting as usual following a loss.

(02-23-2021 10:55 AM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 10:48 AM)Tribester Wrote:  This team basically has four good players. Loewe, Blair, Covington, and Kochera. One or two of them have a bad night offensively and we have basically no chance to win. No inside scoring threat. Nobody that shoots lights out from three. Not a winning combination to say the least.

No, that's wrong. Those are our best players, but you're overreacting as usual following a loss.

I'm not sure Tribester is that far off, especially if we are talking about right now and not last season or next season. He didn't say that everyone else stinks BTW.

I still think we'll see a lot out of Milkreit next year and beyond. He's a good athlete and isn't afraid of contact. I think we see close to the ceiling for Harvey. I want Wight to be better, but I don't see much improvement from the start to end of the season, and he needs muscle. Ayesa regressed from last season where he was wide open a lot, and there are a lot of men playing his position. Hermanovskis isn't going to play much. Too early to tell on Stone, but he's not taking advantage of his minutes. The big wildcard is Thornton Scott. He's at worst a 6th or 7th man and definitely can play at this level. Getting him back next season could be found money.

I think we all wanted to see improvement as the year progressed. The layoff killed that idea. Now we've got another two weeks off to get back into game shape and make a run in the tournament.

(02-23-2021 07:16 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Centers took exactly one shot combined last night. They combined for zero points and five rebounds in 39 minutes. Elon's starting center is 6'7". That's either coaching or effort or as Bubba put it, being outmanned. Yikes.

In fairness, the Tribe's best scoring big man, Quinn, missed both of the games against Elon. I think his presence would have changed these stats a bit in the Tribe's favor.

(02-23-2021 11:23 AM)NC Tribe Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 07:16 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Centers took exactly one shot combined last night. They combined for zero points and five rebounds in 39 minutes. Elon's starting center is 6'7". That's either coaching or effort or as Bubba put it, being outmanned. Yikes.

In fairness, the Tribe's best scoring big man, Quinn, missed both of the games against Elon. I think his presence would have changed these stats a bit in the Tribe's favor.

Quinn played 25 minutes last night.

I think it is hard to get a real read on anything this season. Is JMU really any good? Many of their games were at home and single game rotations instead of 2. Drexel looked more talented to me than their record. Having not gotten to play them, I didn't see much of Northeastern. For all 10 programs, there were a ton of starts and stops and problems with any practice and continuity. Basically, it appears to be the same at all levels of college basketball. UVA and Tech within the state have shown good basketball ability at times, and then look woefully unprepared at others.

I have no idea what we might see in any of the conference tournaments if they are played. Merely playing on their home floor with no fans doesn't give JMU much of an advantage. Without question, their new coach has done much better than Lou Rowe.

As for the Tribe, when the Tribe went in a different direction after 2019, it was obvious that a significant reset was coming. Dane did a great job in 2020 with most of the prior staff recruits. Kochera is a very good player, it looks like the 2021 class is also likely to be good. We went from being a regular contender for 6 straight years to starting over. Realistically, most of us know this. It is going to take several years to get back to that level, unless the incoming freshmen are amazing. Honestly, I am not sure anyone can take much from this year with all of the constant interruptions and just difficulty of normal routines. The lack of consistent ability to work together due to both restrictions and COVID factors might have affected everything from conditioning, shooting, team chemistry. If the team is able to have a more normal offseason, we likely will see improvement in 2021. Jake and Yuri also may take a big step forward in their development this offseason.

(02-23-2021 11:17 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 10:55 AM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 10:48 AM)Tribester Wrote:  This team basically has four good players. Loewe, Blair, Covington, and Kochera. One or two of them have a bad night offensively and we have basically no chance to win. No inside scoring threat. Nobody that shoots lights out from three. Not a winning combination to say the least.

No, that's wrong. Those are our best players, but you're overreacting as usual following a loss.

I'm not sure Tribester is that far off, especially if we are talking about right now and not last season or next season. He didn't say that everyone else stinks BTW.

I still think we'll see a lot out of Milkreit next year and beyond. He's a good athlete and isn't afraid of contact. I think we see close to the ceiling for Harvey. I want Wight to be better, but I don't see much improvement from the start to end of the season, and he needs muscle. Ayesa regressed from last season where he was wide open a lot, and there are a lot of men playing his position. Hermanovskis isn't going to play much. Too early to tell on Stone, but he's not taking advantage of his minutes. The big wildcard is Thornton Scott. He's at worst a 6th or 7th man and definitely can play at this level. Getting him back next season could be found money.

I think we all wanted to see improvement as the year progressed. The layoff killed that idea. Now we've got another two weeks off to get back into game shape and make a run in the tournament.

I am going to try to carefully word my response to your comment about Thornton Scott being the wildcard for next year. None of us know why Thornton felt a need to step away from the team this year. We are not entitled to know his reasoning and the nature of his reasoning may be very personal and very sensitive. I would suggest, however, that this year's team, with 3 true Freshmen, a redshirt Freshman, and 3 Sophomores who hardly played at all last year, really needed Thornton's minutes and leadership way way more than next year's team will.

Next year's team will be adding a 4 year starting point guard from maybe the best public high school team in South Carolina and a 6'6" swing man that one Michigan newspaper rates as one of the best players in Michigan and who plays for a team that is currently rated 3rd in the state by that newspaper. Add to that the possible return of Luke and the valuable experience gained this year by our 3 Freshman guards, and I am having a hard time visioning how Thornton fits into next year's rotation since it appeared to my uneducated eye that he had already lost minutes in this year's rotation.

We currently are projected to have a full scholarship roster of 13 for next year, 14 if Luke decides to take advantage of the exemption and come back for a 5th year. If something happens in the next few months and we suddenly had a scholarship available, it certainly would not break my heart if it went to a 6'8'" freshman or grad transfer power forward, and was funded by a back court player who chose not to return and was not being counted on as part of next year's rotation, whomever that player might be. I will add, however, that I would never condone taking a scholarship away from a player who did not want to leave.

(02-23-2021 01:25 PM)WMTRIBE75 Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 11:17 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 10:55 AM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 10:48 AM)Tribester Wrote:  This team basically has four good players. Loewe, Blair, Covington, and Kochera. One or two of them have a bad night offensively and we have basically no chance to win. No inside scoring threat. Nobody that shoots lights out from three. Not a winning combination to say the least.

No, that's wrong. Those are our best players, but you're overreacting as usual following a loss.

I'm not sure Tribester is that far off, especially if we are talking about right now and not last season or next season. He didn't say that everyone else stinks BTW.

I still think we'll see a lot out of Milkreit next year and beyond. He's a good athlete and isn't afraid of contact. I think we see close to the ceiling for Harvey. I want Wight to be better, but I don't see much improvement from the start to end of the season, and he needs muscle. Ayesa regressed from last season where he was wide open a lot, and there are a lot of men playing his position. Hermanovskis isn't going to play much. Too early to tell on Stone, but he's not taking advantage of his minutes. The big wildcard is Thornton Scott. He's at worst a 6th or 7th man and definitely can play at this level. Getting him back next season could be found money.

I think we all wanted to see improvement as the year progressed. The layoff killed that idea. Now we've got another two weeks off to get back into game shape and make a run in the tournament.

I am going to try to carefully word my response to your comment about Thornton Scott being the wildcard for next year. None of us know why Thornton felt a need to step away from the team this year. We are not entitled to know his reasoning and the nature of his reasoning may be very personal and very sensitive. I would suggest, however, that this year's team, with 3 true Freshmen, a redshirt Freshman, and 3 Sophomores who hardly played at all last year, really needed Thornton's minutes and leadership way way more than next year's team will.

Next year's team will be adding a 4 year starting point guard from maybe the best public high school team in South Carolina and a 6'6" swing man that one Michigan newspaper rates as one of the best players in Michigan and who plays for a team that is currently rated 3rd in the state by that newspaper. Add to that the possible return of Luke and the valuable experience gained this year by our 3 Freshman guards, and I am having a hard time visioning how Thornton fits into next year's rotation since it appeared to my uneducated eye that he had already lost minutes in this year's rotation.

We currently are projected to have a full scholarship roster of 13 for next year, 14 if Luke decides to take advantage of the exemption and come back for a 5th year. If something happens in the next few months and we suddenly had a scholarship available, it certainly would not break my heart if it went to a 6'8'" freshman or grad transfer power forward, and was funded by a back court player who chose not to return and was not being counted on as part of next year's rotation, whomever that player might be. I will add, however, that I would never condone taking a scholarship away from a player who did not want to leave.

Obviously time will tell, as scouting high school players is a crapshoot, but so far I've really been impressed with Dane's ability to recruit. The freshmen have made pretty immediate impacts, partly out of necessity, but they seem like guys who will be absolute studs in the CAA in a few seasons.

I am certainly not trying to make excuses for our performances in the two Elon games, but a bit of a reality check for us fans may still be in order. After getting trounced on Saturday after not having a game in three weeks, the team was given Sunday off because they had practiced for 10 straight days and probably needed a mental and physical break. Then they boarded a bus for Elon YESTERDAY and only had time for a bit of a walk through before playing last night. Hardly the recipe for success for even a veteran team, much less a young one.

I, for one, sincerely thank the players and coaches for giving us a team to pull for.

(02-23-2021 11:17 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 10:55 AM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 10:48 AM)Tribester Wrote:  This team basically has four good players. Loewe, Blair, Covington, and Kochera. One or two of them have a bad night offensively and we have basically no chance to win. No inside scoring threat. Nobody that shoots lights out from three. Not a winning combination to say the least.

No, that's wrong. Those are our best players, but you're overreacting as usual following a loss.

I'm not sure Tribester is that far off, especially if we are talking about right now and not last season or next season. He didn't say that everyone else stinks BTW.

We beat Delaware with sub-30% high volume shooting from Luke and Yuri, and a combined 19 and 13 from Wight/Harvey. If the argument gets changed to "we can't beat a good team if 2 of our top 4 players are off" then it's the same thing that can be said about more than half the NCAA. Few teams can stand to have their best players have bad games. My point is that rending of garments and gnashing of teeth after 2 bad games against Elon after 3 weeks off is overblown.

(02-23-2021 11:49 AM)Tribe4SF Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 11:23 AM)NC Tribe Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 07:16 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Centers took exactly one shot combined last night. They combined for zero points and five rebounds in 39 minutes. Elon's starting center is 6'7". That's either coaching or effort or as Bubba put it, being outmanned. Yikes.

In fairness, the Tribe's best scoring big man, Quinn, missed both of the games against Elon. I think his presence would have changed these stats a bit in the Tribe's favor.

Quinn played 25 minutes last night.

Yikes, didn't notice him the box score. I stand corrected. Everyone in the front court had a bad game.

Has anyone looked at the Tribe's record this season playing against teams coming off pauses?

Need JMU to beat Drexel

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