(01-18-2020 01:10 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Why wouldn’t the Big West take Boise State?

1. Distance. Road trips to Hawaii and Boise in the same season is a lot for what's otherwise a bus league. (Long bus ride from San Diego to UC Davis, but still a bus league)
2. Culture. FBS Boise State would be an outlier like Hawaii. There's a group of UCs, a group of Cal States, and a delicate balance between them.
3. Lack of upside. It's not clear what, if anything, Long Beach State or UC Riverside gets from bringing in Boise State. In 2011-12, bringing in Boise State was part of a package deal to bring in a "whale" program, San Diego State.

The Summit League, on the other hand, with outposts in Denver, Kansas City and Omaha, four flagships-and-landgrants, might make some sense.

Quote:Also, I really don’t know what the MWC leadership is doing with its statements, either. Craig Thompson should be much more scared of pissing off Boise State compared to any other school in the MWC.

Yeah, this is an unforced error. Thompson didn't have to say anything.

Quote:If I was running the MWC, I wouldn’t let the tail wag the dog... which means keeping Boise State happy should be priority #1 regardless of the complaints of much less valuable schools that don’t have any real realignment market power.

Or maybe you'll get fired by the discontented MWC members if they see you as Boise's doormat within 5 years, which is long before your league would get cannibalized over the next 10 years by losing Boise State down the road.

(01-18-2020 12:56 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 12:29 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 12:18 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 10:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 07:39 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  SEE UCONN

Yes, but there's a likely critical difference - UConn grumbled about money they were not going to be getting starting next year. Boise is grumbling about money the MW says they aren't going to be getting seven years from now.

So the pressure to act was greater with UConn.

Still, if I was the MW commissioner, I would quickly issue a new statement withdrawing the earlier claim that Boise would not be negotiating separately in 2026, reiterating that Boise is getting more in this agreement, and that what happens in 2026 and beyond will be discussed and determined at that time.

I would do what I could to simmer Boise down, as a Boise defection right now, either to the AAC or to go independent, would be disastrous for the MW.

Boise is enough of a pain in the ass, I think most of the MWC schools don’t care. I doubt Thompson’s comment was an idle threat.

Boise’s options are:
1) Renegotiate the terms into a true performance bonus available to all
2) See their rights sold to stadium as a streaming only option
3) Leave and become independent for football and X for all sports

I stopped by to get a sense of option 4
4) Leave and join the AAC for football and X for all sports.

Or have Boise sue their ass for reneging on the contract... You can't just change the terms of the deal because you don't like it.

Before you talk about reneging you might want to read the terms of the deal. Notice nowhere does it say “media rights”.


Just so it is available again for this thread, here is the 2012 term sheet.

http://www.usufans.com/Forums/download/file.php?id=1724

Thanks for the link. Links to the actual text are always good. But the language doesn't really support your idea that it's limited to TV rights, and so the MWC can get around it by selling the games to a streaming service. Some things are very clearly stated.

Looking at section 3, "Television Rights" by sentence:
Sentences 2, 3. MWC has to sell the Boise STate package separately.
Sentence 4. Boise State and the MWC must mutually agree to the Boise State TV package.

So the MWC can't sell the Boise games to anybody without Boise's signature. And if they sell the games to a streaming service to get around that provision, the MWC is in breach because they're obligated to sell the Boise football TV rights.

(01-18-2020 01:08 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:01 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 12:56 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 12:29 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 12:18 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  Boise is enough of a pain in the ass, I think most of the MWC schools don’t care. I doubt Thompson’s comment was an idle threat.

Boise’s options are:
1) Renegotiate the terms into a true performance bonus available to all
2) See their rights sold to stadium as a streaming only option
3) Leave and become independent for football and X for all sports

I stopped by to get a sense of option 4
4) Leave and join the AAC for football and X for all sports.

Or have Boise sue their ass for reneging on the contract... You can't just change the terms of the deal because you don't like it.

Before you talk about reneging you might want to read the terms of the deal. Notice nowhere does it say “media rights”.


Just so it is available again for this thread, here is the 2012 term sheet.

http://www.usufans.com/Forums/download/file.php?id=1724

So for them to get by that, the MWC would have to get totally off of TV. ******* genius. Something tells me 6 years from now there's still going to be TV and college sports are still going to be on there.

That's called cutting off the nose to spite the face.

No, read again. Per the term sheet, Boise home games and MWC games are negotiated separately. MWC home games (including Boise away games) would be sold to CBSSports or whomever as they have currently done. Boise home games would be sold to stadium instead of Fox.

Not without Boise's approval.

(01-18-2020 01:15 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:10 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:08 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:01 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 12:56 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  Before you talk about reneging you might want to read the terms of the deal. Notice nowhere does it say “media rights”.


Just so it is available again for this thread, here is the 2012 term sheet.

http://www.usufans.com/Forums/download/file.php?id=1724

So for them to get by that, the MWC would have to get totally off of TV. ******* genius. Something tells me 6 years from now there's still going to be TV and college sports are still going to be on there.

That's called cutting off the nose to spite the face.

No, read again. Per the term sheet, Boise home games and MWC games are negotiated separately. MWC home games (including Boise away games) would be sold to CBSSports or whomever as they have currently done. Boise home games would be sold to stadium instead of Fox.

Boise has to agree to it.

Read section 5. Boise has no control over how their web streaming rights are sold. Boise only controls has as joint agreement over their home broadcast television rights. Period end of story.

Then the MWC is in breach of Section 3, sentence 3 "MWC will ensure that the Boise State home football games are sold as a separate package." If the streaming deal doesn't need Boise's approval because it's not a TV deal, then you didn't sell the TV rights to Boise State's home football games.

(01-18-2020 01:10 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Also, I really don’t know what the MWC leadership is doing with its statements, either. Craig Thompson should be much more scared of pissing off Boise State compared to any other school in the MWC. This is the G5 equivalent of the Big 12 worrying more about pissing off Iowa State and Kansas State instead of Texas and Oklahoma. If the Big 12 doesn’t have Texas and Oklahoma, then they don’t have a conference. Similarly, if the MWC doesn’t have Boise State, it doesn’t take too much movement for it to suddenly face a similar fate as the WAC. If I was running the MWC, I wouldn’t let the tail wag the dog... which means keeping Boise State happy should be priority #1 regardless of the complaints of much less valuable schools that don’t have any real realignment market power.

This all about a dumb statement by Thompson that pissed off Boise State. For the next six years, Boise State will get $1.8 million more than the other MWC schools. There was no point in bringing up a subject that does not need to be addressed now and maybe in the future. Leaving the MWC now would cost Boise State millions in exit fees plus the loss of revenue in the last season. The loss of revenue alone would be at least $8 million. Plus the entry fees to the new conference. If they are going to leave the MWC, it better be for a power conference.

For those who think that sending Boise State Olympic sports to the Big West is going to happen, they need to remember what happened eight years ago. In 2012, the Big West was charging Boise State a $2.5 million entry fee plus a travel subsidy of $750,000 per year. The Big West is a California Bus League. The Big West did not want Boise State.

The WCC does not want them. They don't fit culturally. They would be ranked as the worst academic program in the WCC. They don't bring much athletically. Basketball is okay. The baseball program is just coming back in March after being gone for 40 years. They don't have a men's soccer program. Football does not help the WCC.

The WAC would be their best option and not a very good option for them. They have five years to figure out what they might do if they lose their extra money. In the meantime, they are in the MWC.

(01-18-2020 12:55 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 11:57 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 03:37 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-17-2020 10:14 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-17-2020 10:01 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  Boise:

"Our decision to rejoin the MWC in 2013 was based on certain promises. These promises are written down, and cannot be changed without our consent. The MWC now says they will no longer honor those promises. Therefore, we are in the process of weighing our options to move forward."

What are their options?

1. Stay and fight to enforce the promises.
2. Go independent.
3. Join another conference.

As for #1, BSU has made a few concessions already from the term sheet so not how much they can enforce the “promises”.

Its a contract. It can be modified if BOTH parties agree to do so, but given the language of the agreement, I suspect the MW would have a problem in court if it tried to unilaterally change the terms. The MW has 3 options.

1) They can deal with it.

2) They end the agreement by kicking Boise out of the conference.

3) They can negotiate further incremental changes in the deal that Boise will accept.

The way I see it, if the rest of the members see the issue as big enough to use options #2---then they actually have some leverage in getting meaningful changes via option #3. That said, your playing with fire. Boise may get a better offer in the process.

Boise will not get a better offer unless the Pac 12 or Big 12 blow up. And then they would leave regardless of what the MWC does. Joining the AAC is really not better. They would have a tougher time winning the conference, no natural rivals and would be in a much lesser league for sports other than football.

much lesser league for sports other than football?

You do understand that the AAC is way ahead of the MWC in Men's basketball. Even w/o UConn.

Boise would not be in the AAC for anything but football. So Boise would have to settle for Big West, Big Sky, Summit or WAC.

(01-18-2020 05:39 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:10 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Also, I really don’t know what the MWC leadership is doing with its statements, either. Craig Thompson should be much more scared of pissing off Boise State compared to any other school in the MWC. This is the G5 equivalent of the Big 12 worrying more about pissing off Iowa State and Kansas State instead of Texas and Oklahoma. If the Big 12 doesn’t have Texas and Oklahoma, then they don’t have a conference. Similarly, if the MWC doesn’t have Boise State, it doesn’t take too much movement for it to suddenly face a similar fate as the WAC. If I was running the MWC, I wouldn’t let the tail wag the dog... which means keeping Boise State happy should be priority #1 regardless of the complaints of much less valuable schools that don’t have any real realignment market power.

This all about a dumb statement by Thompson that pissed off Boise State. For the next six years, Boise State will get $1.8 million more than the other MWC schools. There was no point in bringing up a subject that does not need to be addressed now and maybe in the future. Leaving the MWC now would cost Boise State millions in exit fees plus the loss of revenue in the last season. The loss of revenue alone would be at least $8 million. Plus the entry fees to the new conference. If they are going to leave the MWC, it better be for a power conference.

For those who think that sending Boise State Olympic sports to the Big West is going to happen, they need to remember what happened eight years ago. In 2012, the Big West was charging Boise State a $2.5 million entry fee plus a travel subsidy of $750,000 per year. The Big West is a California Bus League. The Big West did not want Boise State.

The WCC does not want them. They don't fit culturally. They would be ranked as the worst academic program in the WCC. They don't bring much athletically. Basketball is okay. The baseball program is just coming back in March after being gone for 40 years. They don't have a men's soccer program. Football does not help the WCC.

The WAC would be their best option and not a very good option for them. They have five years to figure out what they might do if they lose their extra money. In the meantime, they are in the MWC.

Or Boise can sue the MWC to ensure they don't lose the extra money per the terms of their contract. I don't see anything legally the MWC can do to get out of the terms of the deal that they agreed to in 2012.

(01-18-2020 01:34 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:19 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:15 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:10 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:08 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  No, read again. Per the term sheet, Boise home games and MWC games are negotiated separately. MWC home games (including Boise away games) would be sold to CBSSports or whomever as they have currently done. Boise home games would be sold to stadium instead of Fox.

Boise has to agree to it.

Read section 5. Boise has no control over how their web streaming rights are sold. Boise only controls has as joint agreement over their home broadcast television rights. Period end of story.

I'd venture a guess that Boise would win a suit if MWC tried to have the rest of the MWC on TV and them sold online only.

Or they would just get the **** out of that clown conference.

BTW. Suits are won or lost on the terms in the contract. The terms are pretty unambiguous. But I think the conference would prefer a negotiated equitable model for all schools including Boise. So they have six years to figure it out or Boise can be subjected to MWC leverage or choose to leave.

Contracts aren't forever. See the formation of the MWC. If the MWC wants to negotiate the TV deal together in 6 years, Boise can accept it or leave.

(01-18-2020 05:54 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:34 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:19 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:15 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:10 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Boise has to agree to it.

Read section 5. Boise has no control over how their web streaming rights are sold. Boise only controls has as joint agreement over their home broadcast television rights. Period end of story.

I'd venture a guess that Boise would win a suit if MWC tried to have the rest of the MWC on TV and them sold online only.

Or they would just get the **** out of that clown conference.

BTW. Suits are won or lost on the terms in the contract. The terms are pretty unambiguous. But I think the conference would prefer a negotiated equitable model for all schools including Boise. So they have six years to figure it out or Boise can be subjected to MWC leverage or choose to leave.

Contracts aren't forever. See the formation of the MWC. If the MWC wants to negotiate the TV deal together in 6 years, Boise can accept it or leave.

There is absolutely no time frame indicated otherwise in the contract that Boise signed that wasn't in perpetuity.... I don't think legally the MWC has anything it can stand on.... At all.

(01-18-2020 05:54 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:34 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:19 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:15 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:10 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Boise has to agree to it.

Read section 5. Boise has no control over how their web streaming rights are sold. Boise only controls has as joint agreement over their home broadcast television rights. Period end of story.

I'd venture a guess that Boise would win a suit if MWC tried to have the rest of the MWC on TV and them sold online only.

Or they would just get the **** out of that clown conference.

BTW. Suits are won or lost on the terms in the contract. The terms are pretty unambiguous. But I think the conference would prefer a negotiated equitable model for all schools including Boise. So they have six years to figure it out or Boise can be subjected to MWC leverage or choose to leave.

Contracts aren't forever.

They pretty much are. https://www.forbes.com/sites/monteburke/...033ede4f0b

When the NBA absorbed the ABA in 1976, they paid off the owner of one unwanted franchise with $3M. They paid off the other with a deal for a share of TV revenue in perpetuity. Those owners collected checks from the NBA until 2015, when they accepted a $500 million settlement for their NBA rights.

Quote:See the formation of the MWC. If the MWC wants to negotiate the TV deal together in 6 years, Boise can accept it or leave.

Nope. The Mountain West signed the contract, they can live up to it. If you're talking about an airport meeting, then the MWC schools can live without an NCAA autobid for 8 years.

yeah the only thing the MWC schools could do IMO is vote to kick Boise totally out of the conference....

Can Boise State start their own D1 Olympic sports conference? Convince SDSU and BYU to join the AAC in football only, park their other sports in the new conference, invite Gonzaga, St. Marys, and some smart California choices, I'm sure the AAC would agree to a scheduling agreement to pit our top teams against each other... Could be a big win for everyone involved

(01-18-2020 06:39 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  Can Boise State start their own D1 Olympic sports conference? Convince SDSU and BYU to join the AAC in football only, park their other sports in the new conference, invite Gonzaga, St. Marys, and some smart California choices, I'm sure the AAC would agree to a scheduling agreement to pit our top teams against each other... Could be a big win for everyone involved

No autobid for 8 years, but yes, they could do that.

(One of the wilder things that could have come out of the New Big East Coast-to-Coast conference was a revived Big West, with Boise State, SDSU and UNLV playing Big East football and Big West basketball, plus Hawaii.)

Bottom line is MW needs Boise more than Boise needs MW, but doesn't seem MW realizes that.

(01-18-2020 06:48 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 06:39 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  Can Boise State start their own D1 Olympic sports conference? Convince SDSU and BYU to join the AAC in football only, park their other sports in the new conference, invite Gonzaga, St. Marys, and some smart California choices, I'm sure the AAC would agree to a scheduling agreement to pit our top teams against each other... Could be a big win for everyone involved

No autobid for 8 years, but yes, they could do that.

(One of the wilder things that could have come out of the New Big East Coast-to-Coast conference was a revived Big West, with Boise State, SDSU and UNLV playing Big East football and Big West basketball, plus Hawaii.)

I suppose if the composite schools are good enough at basketball they won't need an auto-bid to rake in the NCAA credits.

(01-18-2020 06:02 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 05:54 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:34 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:19 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:15 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  Read section 5. Boise has no control over how their web streaming rights are sold. Boise only controls has as joint agreement over their home broadcast television rights. Period end of story.

I'd venture a guess that Boise would win a suit if MWC tried to have the rest of the MWC on TV and them sold online only.

Or they would just get the **** out of that clown conference.

BTW. Suits are won or lost on the terms in the contract. The terms are pretty unambiguous. But I think the conference would prefer a negotiated equitable model for all schools including Boise. So they have six years to figure it out or Boise can be subjected to MWC leverage or choose to leave.

Contracts aren't forever. See the formation of the MWC. If the MWC wants to negotiate the TV deal together in 6 years, Boise can accept it or leave.

There is absolutely no time frame indicated otherwise in the contract that Boise signed that wasn't in perpetuity.... I don't think legally the MWC has anything it can stand on.... At all.

Boise can simply leave with no penalty (and probably get basketball credits compensated) or they can stay. The idea that they can force the conference to keep them on unequal terms forever is ludicrous.

(01-18-2020 06:23 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 05:54 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:34 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:19 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:15 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  Read section 5. Boise has no control over how their web streaming rights are sold. Boise only controls has as joint agreement over their home broadcast television rights. Period end of story.

I'd venture a guess that Boise would win a suit if MWC tried to have the rest of the MWC on TV and them sold online only.

Or they would just get the **** out of that clown conference.

BTW. Suits are won or lost on the terms in the contract. The terms are pretty unambiguous. But I think the conference would prefer a negotiated equitable model for all schools including Boise. So they have six years to figure it out or Boise can be subjected to MWC leverage or choose to leave.

Contracts aren't forever.

They pretty much are. https://www.forbes.com/sites/monteburke/...033ede4f0b

When the NBA absorbed the ABA in 1976, they paid off the owner of one unwanted franchise with $3M. They paid off the other with a deal for a share of TV revenue in perpetuity. Those owners collected checks from the NBA until 2015, when they accepted a $500 million settlement for their NBA rights.

Quote:See the formation of the MWC. If the MWC wants to negotiate the TV deal together in 6 years, Boise can accept it or leave.

Nope. The Mountain West signed the contract, they can live up to it. If you're talking about an airport meeting, then the MWC schools can live without an NCAA autobid for 8 years.

The initial TV contract is over. Totally different situation than the NBA buying out the franchise rights.

(01-18-2020 06:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Bottom line is MW needs Boise more than Boise needs MW, but doesn't seem MW realizes that.

They both need each other. Boise is an asset, but Boise doesn't have good options.

They aren't Notre Dame or BYU with a religion behind them, 60k+ fans in the stands and national titles.

(01-18-2020 07:24 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 06:23 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 05:54 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:34 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 01:19 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I'd venture a guess that Boise would win a suit if MWC tried to have the rest of the MWC on TV and them sold online only.

Or they would just get the **** out of that clown conference.

BTW. Suits are won or lost on the terms in the contract. The terms are pretty unambiguous. But I think the conference would prefer a negotiated equitable model for all schools including Boise. So they have six years to figure it out or Boise can be subjected to MWC leverage or choose to leave.

Contracts aren't forever.

They pretty much are. https://www.forbes.com/sites/monteburke/...033ede4f0b

When the NBA absorbed the ABA in 1976, they paid off the owner of one unwanted franchise with $3M. They paid off the other with a deal for a share of TV revenue in perpetuity. Those owners collected checks from the NBA until 2015, when they accepted a $500 million settlement for their NBA rights.

Quote:See the formation of the MWC. If the MWC wants to negotiate the TV deal together in 6 years, Boise can accept it or leave.

Nope. The Mountain West signed the contract, they can live up to it. If you're talking about an airport meeting, then the MWC schools can live without an NCAA autobid for 8 years.

The initial TV contract is over. Totally different situation than the NBA buying out the franchise rights.

The separate Boise-MWC agreement says "MWC will ensure such Boise State home football games are not part of, nor granted under, any current or future MWC conference-wide television rights contract" and "Boise State and MWC must mutually agree to whom such Boise State home football games are licensed and to the material terms of such license".

Having said that, if the presidents (not fans) of the other MWC members are fully behind what Thompson said and they tell Boise State to pound sand, then Boise State would either have to get a court to rule that the contract requires their home football games to be sold separately forever, or leave the MWC and argue that they don't owe an exit fee because the MWC violated the 2012 agreement.

Boise State refutes Mountain West’s claim about negotiating TV rights for home games

https://www.idahostatesman.com/sports/co...13553.html