(11-28-2019 09:53 AM)TuckerGnat Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 08:52 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  David, they way you structured the survey options you make it sound like if you don’t want NC A&T the only motivating factor for saying no is their HBCU status.

There are plenty of other reasons to say no. Revenue dilution, current stability, lack of history with member programs, etc.

The bottom line is that there’s no need to grow unless the new school is going to generate enough revenue to justify it.

Exactly. The OP is creating racial tension where none exists.

It is not to do with race. It has to do with the controversies with HBCUs with mismanagement of money and not graduating student athletes to a point that they get pos season banned. I think it is a reason why several are trying to escape their weaker brothers.

(11-28-2019 01:00 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(11-28-2019 11:32 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Absolutely not. Has nothing to do with them being an HBCU.

Basically, the only FCS members I'd be interested in are JMU and NDSU. The FCS is a complete wasteland outside those two programs.

SDSU, Montana, Eastern Washington, Mizz St and Delaware should be added to that list. Teams with strong fanbases and compete at the highest level of the FCS.

I wouldn't put Eastern Washington in as a team with a strong fanbase. Even with all of their success they draw small crowds which is unfortunate.

(11-27-2019 08:03 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Should Sun Belt Conference Add North Carolina A&T for all sports? They are one of the better HBCUs around that is not hurting, and could compete in football better. They said they would like to go FBS.

ok.

(11-28-2019 01:00 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(11-28-2019 11:32 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Absolutely not. Has nothing to do with them being an HBCU.

Basically, the only FCS members I'd be interested in are JMU and NDSU. The FCS is a complete wasteland outside those two programs.

SDSU, Montana, Eastern Washington, Mizz St and Delaware should be added to that list. Teams with strong fanbases and compete at the highest level of the FCS.

SDSU - Only as a partner with NDSU. They're good, but they aren't ready yet. They need to really lock in the Sioux Falls market, which they haven't been able to do yet. They've made inroads, but they need to kick it up a huge notch in SF if they were to make an FBS move. And they'd need to do it before the move, not after.

Montana - Probably not. Too isolated and their enrollment has been dropping. The state of Montana also suffers from multiple mid-sized cities(for their population) instead of one that is much larger than the rest. I don't think they're in a good position for an FBS move right now.

EWU - Are you kidding? They're not even close to the fanbase numbers to go DI. And they don't have anything near the financials to successfully go FBS, especially in terms of donor support. They can't get any major projects done.

Mizz St - Are you saying Missouri State? Are you f-ing kidding? Missouri St is a dumpster fire when it comes to football, and that's not changing. They are the annual whipping boy in the MVFC, and I don't know if anyone actually shows up to their games. Basketball is king there, and football an afterthought. Unless they have a massive culture shift, a conference where basketball is the highest priority is where they need to be.

Delaware - Nope for now. Their previous president and AD did major damage to their support base that they are only now starting to recover from. We're going to need at least another five years to see if any of the damage is permanent. I wouldn't want to add them to my conference until that question is answered.

(11-28-2019 08:59 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 08:03 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Should Sun Belt Conference Add North Carolina A&T for all sports? They are one of the better HBCUs around that is not hurting, and could compete in football better. They said they would like to go FBS.

ok.

Chancellor Harold Martin is at least open to the idea. But he never said 'we're going FBS'

https://www.greensboro.com/sports/colleg...6946a.html

“There's a level of conversation as we continue to maintain a level of competitiveness in athletics. Should we move from the FCS championship level in football to the FBS level?” Martin told trustees. “Honestly, when we create conversations with folks we need to set high enough goals that stretch the organization, not merely make modest steps. Moving to R1 is a big step. Potentially moving to FBS is a big step. Those are board-level decisions. Those are aspirations for our university.”

Martin told trustees he knew the consequences of mentioning FBS publicly.

“We can expect to see this on Twitter,” he said. “Somebody's going to walk away saying we've made a decision to move to the FBS level. That indeed was part of the conversation the day of the conversation. That’s what you may have seen on Twitter.”

(11-28-2019 01:00 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(11-28-2019 11:32 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Absolutely not. Has nothing to do with them being an HBCU.

Basically, the only FCS members I'd be interested in are JMU and NDSU. The FCS is a complete wasteland outside those two programs.

SDSU, Montana, Eastern Washington, Mizz St and Delaware should be added to that list. Teams with strong fanbases and compete at the highest level of the FCS.

The only one of those schools whose fan base I would qualify as "strong" - as in as strong as NDSU or JMU - would be Montana. WaGriz might even have the best game day atmosphere of the three. SDSU has sold out one game since opening their new stadium in 2016 (this year vs. NDSU); EWU doesn't draw well even when they win; Delaware does okay, not great, and I don't think Missouri State would kick you out if you jumped the fence to get in.

Frankly, I think NDSU and JMU would already be in FBS if they found the right fit - the MAC ain't it. Montana won't do it because Montana State can't make the jump. The Brawl of the Wild is basically a license to print money for both schools.

(11-29-2019 12:01 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  

(11-28-2019 01:00 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(11-28-2019 11:32 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Absolutely not. Has nothing to do with them being an HBCU.

Basically, the only FCS members I'd be interested in are JMU and NDSU. The FCS is a complete wasteland outside those two programs.

SDSU, Montana, Eastern Washington, Mizz St and Delaware should be added to that list. Teams with strong fanbases and compete at the highest level of the FCS.

The only one of those schools whose fan base I would qualify as "strong" - as in as strong as NDSU or JMU - would be Montana. WaGriz might even have the best game day atmosphere of the three. SDSU has sold out one game since opening their new stadium in 2016 (this year vs. NDSU); EWU doesn't draw well even when they win; Delaware does okay, not great, and I don't think Missouri State would kick you out if you jumped the fence to get in.

Frankly, I think NDSU and JMU would already be in FBS if they found the right fit - the MAC ain't it. Montana won't do it because Montana State can't make the jump. The Brawl of the Wild is basically a license to print money for both schools.

EWU said they need to upgrade their stadium. They got more people in their stadium last year more than what their capacity could hold. Plus, their fans do travel. They could be the next Boise if they could get themoney to upgrade.

(11-29-2019 12:01 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  Frankly, I think NDSU and JMU would already be in FBS if they found the right fit - the MAC ain't it.

The MAC is as good a fit for JMU as they are likely to find for a move-up, given that the AAC is not inviting up any FCS schools, and they've already turned up their noses at a spot in the SBC. If there's a compelling #13 that wants to join the MAC, JMU seems the most likely "evening up" add.

Indeed, if UMass had taken up their all-sports option, JMU was reportedly the "evening up" add the MAC had lined up.

NDSU is indeed not a fit for the MAC, unless they find a way to move North Dakota to somewhere south or east of Wisconsin.

Consider? Of course. Any league ought to be evaluating opportunities to see if there is a fit and the opportunity to improve the league.

I doubt A&T fits the bill for the Sun Belt, but yeah you look.

EWU reminds me of Northern Illinois more than Boise.
NIU had a great run sharp branding but it never really changed their situation. If they were in Chicago or closer to Chicago maybe they make a huge leap. If EWU was in Spokane then maybe they make that huge leap in support. Their new 25 million stadium project is nice increases amenities and revenue but 8600 seats is all. Maybe a FBS move would pull in more Spokane casual fans that FCS does not.

Perfect scenario they move up with the Montana schools and Idaho.
Keeping rivalry games and local interest while adding the FBS prestige .
They might get Coastal Carolina level support around 13-15k a game .

If the Montana schools would have moved up and Boise not refused to play Idaho the Vandals would still be FBS.
Even with awful coaching decisions and a small stadium.
Most likely the stadium would be getting the fifty million that is going into building a new arena.

One big factor in App St and Georgia Southerns success is they moved up together. They did not give up anything just gained by the move.
NDSU would lose SDSU and UND rivals if they moved up alone.
CCU a baby in the world of college athletics has no real rivals.
Joining the SBC was big because at least local fans have heard of App St and Georgia Southern vs Elon or High Point .

The ideal set up would be a conference with all the near FBS schools in the West together. Keeping their not ready or never ready rivals for olympic sports. Like the XDSU's FBS and the UXD's in their conference playing in a separate FCS conference.

Northern Iowa football only in such a conference would be an ideal situation for them.
I could see such a conference being eighty percent of the current MAC.
Probably have better attendance than the MAC .
NMSU, Liberty, U Conn and U Mass could get football only or scheduling agreement .
Could it work yes of course Montana averages 23-25k and 3500 in basketball.
Montana St has big facility plans in the works are R1 and growing probably the most potential of the top Western FCS schools not in California.
Will it happen no too many moving parts and the rules are set up to keep it from happening .

(11-30-2019 12:55 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(11-29-2019 12:01 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  Frankly, I think NDSU and JMU would already be in FBS if they found the right fit - the MAC ain't it.

The MAC is as good a fit for JMU as they are likely to find for a move-up, given that the AAC is not inviting up any FCS schools, and they've already turned up their noses at a spot in the SBC. If there's a compelling #13 that wants to join the MAC, JMU seems the most likely "evening up" add.

Indeed, if UMass had taken up their all-sports option, JMU was reportedly the "evening up" add the MAC had lined up.

NDSU is indeed not a fit for the MAC, unless they find a way to move North Dakota to somewhere south or east of Wisconsin.

Sure, just relocate the franchise. Maybe they could move to Notre Dame, IN, so they could keep their initials.

David's out here trying to call us racists for not wanting A&T to move up.

I wouldn't mind them if they did, but NC already has too many FBS programs. A&T should join the SoCon.

Different idea. With the success of the Sun Belt perhaps they should look into poaching CUSA.

SBC could add Charlotte and ODU from CUSA. They would be trading a division with Marshall, WKU, MT, FAU, FIU for one with App, Coastal, GaSo and GSU.

It's a much tighter configuration for them and smaller revenue split of 12 instead of 10. SBC I think would agree to it to help its perception.

This would also help CUSA bringing them back to 12 and moving UAB over to the east.

Easier than messing around with the legality of splitting into new geographic based conferences.[/i]

(11-27-2019 08:15 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  No, the only FCS school in their footprint who improves the conference is James Madison.

No.

Do you know where James Madison is located?

(11-30-2019 12:28 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Different idea. With the success of the Sun Belt perhaps they should look into poaching CUSA.

SBC could add Charlotte and ODU from CUSA. They would be trading a division with Marshall, WKU, MT, FAU, FIU for one with App, Coastal, GaSo and GSU.

It's a much tighter configuration for them and smaller revenue split of 12 instead of 10. SBC I think would agree to it to help its perception.

This would also help CUSA bringing them back to 12 and moving UAB over to the east.

Easier than messing around with the legality of splitting into new geographic based conferences.[/i]

We want the Sun Belt to get better, not worse. If we poach C-USA, it better be USM and Marshall

(11-30-2019 11:56 AM)seaking4steel Wrote:  David's out here trying to call us racists for not wanting A&T to move up.

I wouldn't mind them if they did, but NC already has too many FBS programs. A&T should join the SoCon.

I am not saying it as a racist thing. There are too much controversies with mismanagement of money and the academics which preventing several HBCU schools from competing in post season. There are/were several HBCUs in trouble.
Cheney who dropped sports.
Concordia, Alabama shut down.
Hiram Scott lost accreditation
Bennett College for girls just lost their's.
Saint Paul's closed.
Former D1 Morris Brown lost their accreditation.

Alabama State Losing Students

NC A&T, UNC Central, Texas Southern, Prairie View, Southern, Grambling, Alcorn, Florida A&M, Bethune-Cookman, Jackson State, Howard, Tennessee State. and Hampton U. at D1 still have large enrollment. Clark Atlanta and Albany State are the larger D2 schools. The rest of the HBCUs are in trouble. That is why the bigger names looking to move.

As I've related before Sun Belt was all set to add FAMU until it turned out their finances were a mess.

There is no objection to adding HBCU's that are well funded and compatible in academics and if you are in dire need, forget the academics.

(11-30-2019 06:57 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  As I've related before Sun Belt was all set to add FAMU until it turned out their finances were a mess.

There is no objection to adding HBCU's that are well funded and compatible in academics and if you are in dire need, forget the academics.

Too bad that fell through. Seeing a three-way FAU-FIU-FAMU series there while all were in the SBC would have been really entertaining. I'm sure UCF would have been open to 1:1 with FAMU the same as we've done with F_U too.

As far as FBS ready FCS schools go there’s:

JMU
NDSU
SDSU
Montana
Montana St

There’s a few more that are borderline that would need work.

(11-30-2019 08:48 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(11-30-2019 06:57 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  As I've related before Sun Belt was all set to add FAMU until it turned out their finances were a mess.

There is no objection to adding HBCU's that are well funded and compatible in academics and if you are in dire need, forget the academics.

Too bad that fell through. Seeing a three-way FAU-FIU-FAMU series there while all were in the SBC would have been really entertaining. I'm sure UCF would have been open to 1:1 with FAMU the same as we've done with F_U too.

FAMU would have been a nice secondary rival for the F_U schools. Tallahassee isn’t too far from Troy or Mobile either.

It’s a shame they couldn’t make it work in 2005.