Stretching the conference from Greenville, NC to San Diego, CA.

Makes sense....

(11-27-2019 01:12 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 12:30 PM)Shox Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 10:53 AM)vabearcat Wrote:  Dayton-no. Makes no sense from any standpoint. Flyers can continue to play Fordham and St. Bonaventure and George Mason and cling to their basketball salad days of 50 years ago. They can enjoy their good attendance for what amounts to glorified high school games. Perhaps the A-10 can lure ECU away. Pirates might fit better in the A-10.

Dayton made the elite 8 in 2014, Cinci last made it in 1996. In fact, Cinci basketball hasn't really been that relevant in the post season since the 60's outside of a few good years in the early 90's. Salad days indeed ...

One good year does not a tradition make. Cincy has been to 9 straight NCAA tournaments, along with Michigan State, Duke, Kentucky, Gonzaga, Kansas, perhaps one or two others. Cincy also has been to all but four of the last 27 NCAA tournaments, missing only after Huggins got canned and the roster was decimated. Not to mention UC having been ranked at some point in every season in the top 5 or 10 virtually every year in the last 25-30 years. That's not relevant? Neither Dayton nor, it must be noted, Wichita, have anything close to that kind of history and tradition.

They have a history, not some flash in the pan. Their final four is from 1967. They have an elite eight in the 80s, 90s, and 2010s. They have appearances every decade from the 1950s till the present and multiple appearences every decade except the 1990s.

That top 5 or 10 every year for Cincy is hyperbole. What isn't hyperbole is every team you mentioned for those straight appearences has a deep run as do some flash in the pans. Dayton has five tourney victories these last nine years. How many does Cincy have?

(11-27-2019 01:12 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 12:30 PM)Shox Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 10:53 AM)vabearcat Wrote:  Dayton-no. Makes no sense from any standpoint. Flyers can continue to play Fordham and St. Bonaventure and George Mason and cling to their basketball salad days of 50 years ago. They can enjoy their good attendance for what amounts to glorified high school games. Perhaps the A-10 can lure ECU away. Pirates might fit better in the A-10.

Dayton made the elite 8 in 2014, Cinci last made it in 1996. In fact, Cinci basketball hasn't really been that relevant in the post season since the 60's outside of a few good years in the early 90's. Salad days indeed ...

One good year does not a tradition make. Cincy has been to 9 straight NCAA tournaments, along with Michigan State, Duke, Kentucky, Gonzaga, Kansas, perhaps one or two others. Cincy also has been to all but four of the last 27 NCAA tournaments, missing only after Huggins got canned and the roster was decimated. Not to mention UC having been ranked at some point in every season in the top 5 or 10 virtually every year in the last 25-30 years. That's not relevant? Neither Dayton nor, it must be noted, Wichita, have anything close to that kind of history and tradition.

Sounds good, enjoy being the Creighton of the AAC. All blow in the regular season and nothing but suck in the post.

(11-27-2019 01:45 PM)Shox Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 01:12 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 12:30 PM)Shox Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 10:53 AM)vabearcat Wrote:  Dayton-no. Makes no sense from any standpoint. Flyers can continue to play Fordham and St. Bonaventure and George Mason and cling to their basketball salad days of 50 years ago. They can enjoy their good attendance for what amounts to glorified high school games. Perhaps the A-10 can lure ECU away. Pirates might fit better in the A-10.

Dayton made the elite 8 in 2014, Cinci last made it in 1996. In fact, Cinci basketball hasn't really been that relevant in the post season since the 60's outside of a few good years in the early 90's. Salad days indeed ...

One good year does not a tradition make. Cincy has been to 9 straight NCAA tournaments, along with Michigan State, Duke, Kentucky, Gonzaga, Kansas, perhaps one or two others. Cincy also has been to all but four of the last 27 NCAA tournaments, missing only after Huggins got canned and the roster was decimated. Not to mention UC having been ranked at some point in every season in the top 5 or 10 virtually every year in the last 25-30 years. That's not relevant? Neither Dayton nor, it must be noted, Wichita, have anything close to that kind of history and tradition.

Sounds good, enjoy being the Creighton of the AAC. All blow in the regular season and nothing but suck in the post.

Mick "NCAA Tourney is for Fans" Cronin is gone. Good try though.

Wouldn't trade places with any of ya'll. If I had to, probably Memphis. If I had to.

(11-27-2019 01:16 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  Stretching the conference from Greenville, NC to San Diego, CA.

Makes sense....

Meh. This is an airplane and TV league. Regional opponents have never been a hallmark of the AAC.

Hybrid conferences aren't ideal, but as others have said, they can work as long as the numbers stay heavily skewed towards all-sports members. That way if the non-football or football-only members grow discontent, you can make a clean break and still have a viable conference without having to send out panic invites.

Gotta admit, would be kind of funny to invite a bunch of partial members after (I assume) giving UConn the cold shoulder about leaving their football in the AAC.

Aside from not being real crazy about adding another program from southwest Ohio, I could kind of get down with this arrangement:

All Sports:

Cincinnati
East Carolina
Houston
Memphis
SMU
Temple
Tulane
Tulsa
UCF
USF

Football Only:

Air Force
Army
BYU
Navy

Olymic Sports Only:

Dayton
St. Louis
VCU
Wichita State

Yes, it would bring the balance of all-in members vs. partial members to 10-8, but really, it would be more like 10-4-4. In other words, if things didn't work out, you can drop one of the groups of 4 or even all 8 of them and still have a decent conference.

(11-27-2019 03:14 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Hybrid conferences aren't ideal, but as others have said, they can work as long as the numbers stay heavily skewed towards all-sports members. That way if the non-football or football-only members grow discontent, you can make a clean break and still have a viable conference without having to send out panic invites.

Gotta admit, would be kind of funny to invite a bunch of partial members after (I assume) giving UConn the cold shoulder about leaving their football in the AAC.

If only that would have happened years ago we'd still have the Big East and this discussion would be moot. I can still imagine Syracuse-Pitt-Cincinnati-Rutgers-UConn-WVU-Louisville-VT in a conference.

As we've seen it doesn't work well at all. Especially when you add a broadcast partner hell bent on destroying the conference and a close minded commissioner.

(11-27-2019 03:22 PM)WhalerFan Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 03:14 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Hybrid conferences aren't ideal, but as others have said, they can work as long as the numbers stay heavily skewed towards all-sports members. That way if the non-football or football-only members grow discontent, you can make a clean break and still have a viable conference without having to send out panic invites.

Gotta admit, would be kind of funny to invite a bunch of partial members after (I assume) giving UConn the cold shoulder about leaving their football in the AAC.

If only that would have happened years ago we'd still have the Big East and this discussion would be moot. I can still imagine Syracuse-Pitt-Cincinnati-Rutgers-UConn-WVU-Louisville-VT in a conference.

As we've seen it doesn't work well at all. Especially when you add a broadcast partner hell bent on destroying the conference and a close minded commissioner.

I think it has more to do with what you said in the bolded section than being a hybrid conference. The schools that left the Big East did so because they had a better option, be it the ACC, Big Ten, new Big East or Big 12. The same thing will happen in the AAC eventually regardless of whether we are a hybrid league or not. If a P5 comes knocking, any one of us is taking that invite.

(11-27-2019 10:53 AM)vabearcat Wrote:  Dayton-no. Makes no sense from any standpoint. Flyers can continue to play Fordham and St. Bonaventure and George Mason and cling to their basketball salad days of 50 years ago. They can enjoy their good attendance for what amounts to glorified high school games. Perhaps the A-10 can lure ECU away. Pirates might fit better in the A-10.

This ain't it.

Dayton is a legitimate college basketball program. They'd slot in the upper half of the conference immediately.

The reasons against adding them have all been pointed out in this thread, but their program's level has nothing to do with it.

(11-27-2019 09:46 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  Hybrid conferences don't work long term. If you don't believe the AAC will last anyway, then sure add those kinds of basketball schools. But I prefer that football drives the bus.

1) We're not talking about a Big East type of "hybrid conference" here. The discussion is about adding one FB and one BB, since few schools would be solid all-sports members.

2) Navy and Wichita (FB/BB) has worked out spectacularly well for AAC.

3) Even the Big East, in its hybrid years, was spectacularly successful. Each program was propelled forward, either from relative obscurity (e.g., Rutgers, USF) into the national limelight, or from a low media income to a relatively (AAC) or highly (P5) prosperous conference.

4) From that standpoint, the Big East, as a hybrid conference definitely did work to the long-term advantage of every member, since they all ended up better off than where they started.

5) The only reason some all-sports members left was because they were able to get an even better deal by joining P5 conferences.

Air Force, BYU, and Boise St as full members.

It makes for a manageable west division with Tulsa, SMU, Houston, and Navy/Wich St.

It drastically reduces the threat of the MWC getting the G5 NY6 slot. Functionally making the AAC a P6 that would have seat are the table every year unless one of the other 4 produced a convincingly more worthy champion.

(11-27-2019 04:30 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Air Force, BYU, and Boise St as full members.

It makes for a manageable west division with Tulsa, SMU, Houston, and Navy/Wich St.

It drastically reduces the threat of the MWC getting the G5 NY6 slot. Functionally making the AAC a P6 that would have seat are the table every year unless one of the other 4 produced a convincingly more worthy champion.

The only team that drastically reduces the threat of the MWC taking the bid is Boise. Air Force isn't any more or less likely than most of the rest of the MWC and BYU is not a threat by definition as an independent.

(11-26-2019 11:28 PM)PT_american Wrote:  

(11-26-2019 11:19 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  

(11-26-2019 10:26 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  

(11-26-2019 10:20 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  I'd prefer St Louis.

St. Louis makes more sense geographically.

Not if you ask Cincinnati, which is only 1 hour from Dayton.

.
But seriously...

Let's begin by noting that Dayton basketball has a stronger national recognition/brand than St. Louis has, and has been more successful in the past 15-20 years, with multiple NCAA trips over the past decade.

If they were to replace UConn basketball, the flight time for every AAC team except Temple would be an hour shorter than it is for UConn.

Dayton would shore up the AAC's foothold in Ohio and the midwest viewership market.

While St. Louis is closer to the AAC West teams, Dayton is closer to CIN, TEM, ECU, UCF, and USF.

In addition, they're regional rivals with Cincy and have also had a lengthy rivalry with Temple.

I agree completely . Not sure the infatuation with St Louis. The have like 10 tourney births in their history and honestly aren’t much of a brand name. I think Dayton and VCU are both much more attractive if the league decided to go that route. I would lean towards VCU just because the add a new market and are a good fit location wise. While I like Dayton equally as much being in the same market as Cincy doesn’t make a lot of sense.

If AAC drives home stipulations to SLU like it did with Tulane, SMU, Temple, etc, to up the level of play then SLU has a much higher ceiling than Dayton.

Driving distance of WSU, Tulsa, Memphis, Cincinnati, and borderline Tulane/SMU.

Saint Louis is an amazing market, no NBA team to compete with but the city has some very die hard basketball fans....growing up there it was weird when I got to college and realized all the guy from other cities didn't give a **** about college hoops, just NBA.

Lots of talent too in the region; Brad Beal, Jayson Tatum, Otto Porter, etc.

When Rick Marjarus was the coach it was a hard ticket to get....the administration there has long been the problem, even the new one that came in like 5ish years ago....really underutilize the potential of that school with athletics, academics, and as a community member.....

But with competent leadership SLU would be a perfect fit for the AAC, exactly why they've shared conferences with so many of the current members in the past.

If say Boise or BYU wanted to be football only members I'd be fine with adding Saint Louis. Until football is figured out, there is no reason to expand at all.

(11-27-2019 03:14 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Hybrid conferences aren't ideal, but as others have said, they can work as long as the numbers stay heavily skewed towards all-sports members. That way if the non-football or football-only members grow discontent, you can make a clean break and still have a viable conference without having to send out panic invites.

Gotta admit, would be kind of funny to invite a bunch of partial members after (I assume) giving UConn the cold shoulder about leaving their football in the AAC.

I think their football performance this year makes that situation self explanatory (that and the fact no other G5 league rushed to add them).

(11-27-2019 05:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 03:14 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Hybrid conferences aren't ideal, but as others have said, they can work as long as the numbers stay heavily skewed towards all-sports members. That way if the non-football or football-only members grow discontent, you can make a clean break and still have a viable conference without having to send out panic invites.

Gotta admit, would be kind of funny to invite a bunch of partial members after (I assume) giving UConn the cold shoulder about leaving their football in the AAC.

I think their football performance this year makes that situation self explanatory (that and the fact no other G5 league rushed to add them).

You mean only losing to powerhouse Houston by 7? Coach P said that's a good loss.

(11-27-2019 09:33 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  The ideal scenario is an all-sports invite.

But as we know ... the choices are limited.

So if a football only and an all-sports but football ...

I'm on record with preferring VCU and, next, Saint Louis. But Dayton would be a strong choice, too.

...I’d much prefer VCU and would be hesitant to add another hybrid team that is not a screaming “no brainer” addition like Wichita was.

Beyond those, most any “all sports” addition available is a huge step down from the option I outlined.

1) Comparing the mixed reaction to Dayton here with more consistent interest in VCU on this board, VCU, more than Dayton, clearly seems to be the consensus "screaming no-brainer" BB/olympic addition on the AAC's list.

2) There has been a clear preference (63% by a board poll with a good response rate) on this board for the AAC to become stronger by replacing UConn FB with a better FB member and having 12 teams in both sports.

3) The only consensus all-sports member - BYU - hasn't expressed interest, and the other alternatives (e.g., SDSU, Colorado State, Utah St., Buffalo, etc.) are either too distant for all-sports, aren't strong enough in FB & BB, or lack national brand recognition.

4) The conference's decision to add Navy and Wichita State has worked out so well that the option to add 1 FB and 1 BB is generally preferred by most - in polls and threads on this specific topic - to adding any of the non-BYU all-sports options.

5) Although most people on this board showed an initial preference toward BYU, Boise St., and Army, they are now viewed as unlikely to join the conference.

6) Over the past 2-3 months, there has been a near-consensus here that Air Force would be the best possible option to replace UConn FB, with various MWC members (e.g., SDSU, Colo St.) being the next best options. Aresco has made it clear that geographical distance wouldn't rule out any suitable FBS institution in the 48 states, including a west coast FB program such as SDSU.

7) If VCU shows no interest in joining the conference, there are a number of other candidates, beyond Dayton (2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 NCAA) and St. Louis (2013, 2014, 2019 NCAA), that would be suitable BB/olympic members, including Davidson (2013, 2015, 2018 NCAA), Buffalo (2015, 2016, 2018, 2019 NCAA), Rhode Island (2017 & 2018 NCAA), Northern Iowa (2015, 2016 NCAA) and ODU (2019 NCAA).

(11-27-2019 05:15 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 05:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 03:14 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Hybrid conferences aren't ideal, but as others have said, they can work as long as the numbers stay heavily skewed towards all-sports members. That way if the non-football or football-only members grow discontent, you can make a clean break and still have a viable conference without having to send out panic invites.

Gotta admit, would be kind of funny to invite a bunch of partial members after (I assume) giving UConn the cold shoulder about leaving their football in the AAC.

I think their football performance this year makes that situation self explanatory (that and the fact no other G5 league rushed to add them).

You mean only losing to powerhouse Houston by 7? Coach P said that's a good loss.

lol....You've already lost if your best argument is losing to an awful Houston team by 7. We aint much this year. Here's an example---last week vs Tulsa Houston started 4 freshman and a Jr on the offensive line....those 5 lineman represented 5 of the 6 total OL's the team had dressed out and available for the game. Thats where we are this year. Houston fans just have to laugh it off and look forward to next year when the talent base will be much better.