Shaver's opening line on the recruiting trail, "I can offer some flexibility on your SAT score, are your marks at least 1300?"

Anybody that has met Lou Rowe likes the man.

If you want to get mad at somebody, get mad at Charlie King. I doubt Bourne is behind going cheap on a mbb coach. Alger, just whatever, nevermind there...

(11-26-2019 09:06 PM)hburg Wrote:  Is it really the fault of Coach Rowe? Players were making bad shots and shooting poorly in the end.

When the ball is stagnant and your putting up bad shots consistently, that's coaching. I rarely see plays called on offense, or inbounds plays, etc.

When players aren't making any effort on defense (rotating, getting back on defense, putting hands up) or communicating with each other, that's also coaching.

I like Rowe as a person, but he absolutely needs to go.

(11-26-2019 11:52 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(11-26-2019 10:09 PM)nyduke Wrote:  Bring back Brady

Let’s not get carried away, hmmm? Ha

I'm not about bringing back Brady, but this was my huge fear by sending him packing. I didn't disagree that he'd brought us about as far as he could, but was not convinced we'd move ahead or go in reverse with the next hire. We have not shown the desire to make JMU basketball what it should be. This arena is not convincing because every building we build is magnificent so there's nothing to show we're doing anything to move MBB forward simply from saying, "look at the new facility we have for the team."

(11-27-2019 03:39 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 03:27 PM)Dukes84 Wrote:  For those calling for Shaver, here is his record at W&M (and he was a HC at Hampden-Sydney for close to 20 years before that). It took him a while to figure it out, obviously.

William & Mary Tribe (Colonial Athletic Association) (2003–2019)
2003–04 William & Mary 7–21 4–14 T–8th
2004–05 William & Mary 8–21 3–15 T–8th
2005–06 William & Mary 8–20 3–15 T–10th
2006–07 William & Mary 15–15 8–10 T–7th
2007–08 William & Mary 17–16 10–8 5th
2008–09 William & Mary 10–20 5–13 11th
2009–10 William & Mary 22–11 12–6 3rd NIT First Round
2010–11 William & Mary 10–22 4–14 11th
2011–12 William & Mary 6–26 4–14 10th
2012–13 William & Mary 13–17 7–11 8th
2013–14 William & Mary 20–12 10–6 3rd
2014–15 William & Mary 20–13 12–6 T–1st NIT First Round
2015–16 William & Mary 20–11 11–7 T–3rd
2016–17 William & Mary 17–14 10–8 T–4th
2017–18 William & Mary 19–12 11–7 4th
2018–19 William & Mary 14–17 10–8 4th
William & Mary: 226–268 (.457) 124–162(.434)

Thanks for that reminder. Shaver's record at W&M would not be good enough for JMU fan's expectations either.

Plus Shaver is 65 years old. Lefty was 57 when we hired him.

I am not calling for anybody's head. I won't check out if we lose games.

What will check me out is no offensive plays. Passing outside of the 3 pt line and chucking 3s unless somebody decides a head down one on one low percentage junk shot is worth a try will lose me and a lot of games.

Nothing is going to change until the admin invests in a MBB coach and stays out of the evaluation process. They don't know what they're doing.

(11-27-2019 03:39 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 03:27 PM)Dukes84 Wrote:  For those calling for Shaver, here is his record at W&M (and he was a HC at Hampden-Sydney for close to 20 years before that). It took him a while to figure it out, obviously.

William & Mary Tribe (Colonial Athletic Association) (2003–2019)
2003–04 William & Mary 7–21 4–14 T–8th
2004–05 William & Mary 8–21 3–15 T–8th
2005–06 William & Mary 8–20 3–15 T–10th
2006–07 William & Mary 15–15 8–10 T–7th
2007–08 William & Mary 17–16 10–8 5th
2008–09 William & Mary 10–20 5–13 11th
2009–10 William & Mary 22–11 12–6 3rd NIT First Round
2010–11 William & Mary 10–22 4–14 11th
2011–12 William & Mary 6–26 4–14 10th
2012–13 William & Mary 13–17 7–11 8th
2013–14 William & Mary 20–12 10–6 3rd
2014–15 William & Mary 20–13 12–6 T–1st NIT First Round
2015–16 William & Mary 20–11 11–7 T–3rd
2016–17 William & Mary 17–14 10–8 T–4th
2017–18 William & Mary 19–12 11–7 4th
2018–19 William & Mary 14–17 10–8 4th
William & Mary: 226–268 (.457) 124–162(.434)

Thanks for that reminder. Shaver's record at W&M would not be good enough for JMU fan's expectations either.

Don't know if you're being facetious or not, but I agree he's not the answer. We need to apply the same approach to the MBB coach as we have recently to the FB coach. Schools like W&M and Wofford are fine with giving a coach 8+ years to develop. We need to be the school that hires proven coaches away from schools like those (like we did FB from Citadel and Elon).

I'd be fine with giving someone like Mike Young a shot, anyone who can win at a non-basketball school should have success at a school that's putting proper resources into the program. Experiment with the golf coach, not MBB.

So much dribble drive....that's not coaching

I stopped being optimistic about MBB quite a few years ago, but I can pretty much guarantee you that, after spending a small fortune on the new place, the administration won’t be content to allow this to continue. Just as the Bridgeforth expansion helped hasten MM’s demise, the new palace will lead to MBB coaching change. They’ll finally spend some money on a new hire because they’ll think they need to in order to sell the expensive ticket packages, sponsorships, etc. Whether that turns thing around or not remains to be seen.

(11-29-2019 07:36 PM)POTUS#4 Wrote:  I stopped being optimistic about MBB quite a few years ago, but I can pretty much guarantee you that, after spending a small fortune on the new place, the administration won’t be content to allow this to continue. Just as the Bridgeforth expansion helped hasten MM’s demise, the new palace will lead to MBB coaching change. They’ll finally spend some money on a new hire because they’ll think they need to in order to sell the expensive ticket packages, sponsorships, etc. Whether that turns thing around or not remains to be seen.

This probably deserves its own thread, but the question is who are the candidates that would replace Rowe?

Rick Pitino might be available.

An interesting suggestion made around the after turkey-day meal at my home was Dell Curry. Again, another no HC experience guy, but Dell is a H’Burg native and has the name that might boost recruiting.

Other thoughts/suggestions?

This is a thread that should be started at the end of the season. Some of you folks are pretty heartless. You forget that players and their parents read this stuff. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but starting a thread like this seven games into the season is pretty classless.

How about we let the season take its course and we support this team and it’s coaches? When it is done, we can have this discussion.

(11-30-2019 10:22 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  This is a thread that should be started at the end of the season. Some of you folks are pretty heartless. You forget that players and their parents read this stuff. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but starting a thread like this seven games into the season is pretty classless.

How about we let the season take its course and we support this team and it’s coaches? When it is done, we can have this discussion.

It's a message board JMUNation. I've seen plenty of your posts where you've stated your opinion about something.

Since you've stated your support for how well Charlie King and Jeff Bourne have done, would you rather the subject of the thread be "How Could Our Admin Have So Badly Botched our MBB Program"?

As a grad who went to JMU when it was a MBB school versus the Football school it is today, the loss to Coppin State and the appearance that there's no offensive scheme being utilized by the team is frustrating whether it's 7 games into the season or comments after the CAA Tournament Champ is crowned.

JMU MBB Attendance:

2018 - 2,664
2017 - 2,867
2016 - 3,001
2015 - 3,416
2014 - 3,612
2013 - 3,334
2012 - 3,452
2011 - 3,721
2010 - 3,732
2009 - 3,603
2008 - 3,632
2007 - 3,302
2006 - 3,818
2005 - 3,223
2004 - 3,697
2003 - 3,726
2002 - 4,466
2001 - 3,926
2000 - 4,268
1999 - 4,180
1998 - 4,515
1997 - 4,740
1996 - 4,569
1995 - 5,637
1994 - 5,616
1993 - 6,086
1992 - 6,122
1991 - 6,292
1990 - 6,802
1989 - 6,140

1990 Harrisonburg population: 31k
2017 Harrisonburg population: 54k (74% increase)

1990 Rockingham County population: 58k
2017 Rockingham County population: 80k (38% increase)

1990 Freshmen class: 1,912
2018 Freshmen class: 4,640 (142% increase)

1991-1993 avg MBB attendance: 6,167
2016-2018 avg MBB attendance: 2,844 (54% decrease)

JMU itself has more than doubled in size. Harrisonburg has nearly doubled; yet, our MBB attendance is less than half what it was nearly 3 decades ago. The capacity is there. Harrisonburg will support a winner. An extra thousand tickets sold per game (15 home games x 1000 x $15) is an $225k. And that's just for a mediocre program. That's how much money we're losing out on compared to less than a decade ago. If we have a program consistently in the top 2-3 of the CAA, we could easily add 2-3k tickets sold per game ($450k - $675k). If you move those ticket sales into the coaches salary we could actually pay for a head coach.

(11-30-2019 10:22 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  This is a thread that should be started at the end of the season. Some of you folks are pretty heartless. You forget that players and their parents read this stuff. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but starting a thread like this seven games into the season is pretty classless.

How about we let the season take its course and we support this team and it’s coaches? When it is done, we can have this discussion.

This is not the first "Rowe must go" thread and fans need a place to vent. If players and parents read this stuff, that's their right, they know what's going on, they see what we see. None of this is shocking to them. We all know Bourne/King will not remove Rowe this season, or at the end of this season, no matter how badly it ends. We can get trounced by the lowly Pirates today, go 4-14 in CAA play, and Rowe's job will remain the safest one in all of college hoops.

What's heartless is letting these kids fight and flounder in a offense that can only be described as a systemless system. The fact that we have one of the lowest FT% in the history of bball tells us enough....same non-scheme for four years that counts on "getting hot" instead of playing smart (which starts with coach setting a strategy)

(11-30-2019 11:30 AM)Bill Wrote:  We all know Bourne/King will not remove Rowe this season, or at the end of this season, no matter how badly it ends. We can get trounced by the lowly Pirates today, go 4-14 in CAA play, and Rowe's job will remain the safest one in all of college hoops.

I agree with your post, but then you added this completely false, woe-is-me part at the end. At the end of year 4 out of 5 is exactly when lots of coaches are fired. Just because Linwood Rose was too selfish to make a real call on Matt Brady doesn’t mean you can pretend like this is JMU’s new normal. If they keep him, it will be because he made progress in the CAA standings or tournament.

Lots of interesting takes here, but rowe gets the season. The silly take is to take any stats as totally reflective of the season, particularly the ft percentage. It will even out.

We are 304/350 ranked in FT%.... might seem silly to you, but with our style of play we MUST be shooting in the 80s. Kt's the easiest part of the game, and its gonna cost us....hope you are right that it evens out (meaning, improves vastly) - but we need to win a lot more this year or make a change. Certainly wish HCLR the best and hope they can do it!!

(11-30-2019 11:52 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  

(11-30-2019 11:30 AM)Bill Wrote:  We all know Bourne/King will not remove Rowe this season, or at the end of this season, no matter how badly it ends. We can get trounced by the lowly Pirates today, go 4-14 in CAA play, and Rowe's job will remain the safest one in all of college hoops.

I agree with your post, but then you added this completely false, woe-is-me part at the end. At the end of year 4 out of 5 is exactly when lots of coaches are fired. Just because Linwood Rose was too selfish to make a real call on Matt Brady doesn’t mean you can pretend like this is JMU’s new normal. If they keep him, it will be because he made progress in the CAA standings or tournament.

His CAA record is 7-11, 6-12, 6-12 with declining attendance. Bourne/King would point to a 7-11 CAA record this year as progress. Not sure any of us would, but they will. If Rowe gets it to 8-10 he'll probably get a 5 year extension.