(10-20-2019 10:04 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote: As much as I like Michael Warren, I agree with others that Gerrid Doaks needs to be a bigger part of the offense going forward. I think we will start to see him average 10-15 touches per game the rest of the way.
I think this was always the plan. Outside of UCLA this might be the first game Doaks looked completely healthy for the past year and a half.
(10-20-2019 06:00 AM)RealDeal Wrote: Don't get me wrong we'll win the division this year with Ridder. But if we're trying to get to a top 10-NY6 G5 rep level we need to get better play at QB. And he's 20 games into his career it's not like he's inexperienced, we're probably looking at what he is with probably marginal improvement over the next 20+ starts.
And the young talent on this roster especially defense is insane. We've got a chance to be really special for the next few years with above average QB play.
I can agree with this in terms of timing. Does anyone think the head coach is going to announce to a first place team in the East division during the bye week that because Ridder is not getting it done from a raw numbers standpoint that a guy with no real game experience is going to become the starter? CLF is not going to disrupt winning and team chemistry at this point in the season. I don't disagree with that logic at all. Let's say he does make a change and Bryant goes out and throws 3 picks and is the biggest reason for a loss - then what? People would be calling for Fick's head. Book it. I don't doubt for a minute that Fick knows that side of the ball needs some improvement and better consistency. He made the decision last year to go with the frosh Ridder over the veteran Moore. I have complete faith that if or when he feels another QB on the roster gives us a better chance to win consistently that he'll make the change. That time is not now. The best case scenario is Bryant should get some snaps in the late 3Q or early 4Q the next time we're up on someone with a comfortable lead. That would be smart also in case Ridder goes down with an injury. After the season, open up the competition at QB to include the frosh Prater and see where the chips fall.
(10-20-2019 10:04 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote: As much as I like Michael Warren, I agree with others that Gerrid Doaks needs to be a bigger part of the offense going forward. I think we will start to see him average 10-15 touches per game the rest of the way.
This is what should and will happen. Doaks was banged up this year so it would've happened earlier. Fick admitted Warren was worn down last season after he rode every ounce out of him. There were several games last season that we would not have won if not for Truck running the rock. So, he's earned that trust as our workhorse back. Now that we're in the last half season grind look for Doaks to get more playing time to keep Warren fresh and offer a different style, different look to opposing defenses.
(10-20-2019 06:00 AM)RealDeal Wrote: Don't get me wrong we'll win the division this year with Ridder. But if we're trying to get to a top 10-NY6 G5 rep level we need to get better play at QB. And he's 20 games into his career it's not like he's inexperienced, we're probably looking at what he is with probably marginal improvement over the next 20+ starts.
And the young talent on this roster especially defense is insane. We've got a chance to be really special for the next few years with above average QB play.
I can agree with this in terms of timing. Does anyone think the head coach is going to announce to a first place team in the East division during the bye week that because Ridder is not getting it done from a raw numbers standpoint that a guy with no real game experience is going to become the starter? CLF is not going to disrupt winning and team chemistry at this point in the season. I don't disagree with that logic at all. Let's say he does make a change and Bryant goes out and throws 3 picks and is the biggest reason for a loss - then what? People would be calling for Fick's head. Book it. I don't doubt for a minute that Fick knows that side of the ball needs some improvement and better consistency. He made the decision last year to go with the frosh Ridder over the veteran Moore. I have complete faith that if or when he feels another QB on the roster gives us a better chance to win consistently that he'll make the change. That time is not now. The best case scenario is Bryant should get some snaps in the late 3Q or early 4Q the next time we're up on someone with a comfortable lead. That would be smart also in case Ridder goes down with an injury. After the season, open up the competition at QB to include the frosh Prater and see where the chips fall.
(10-20-2019 10:04 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote: As much as I like Michael Warren, I agree with others that Gerrid Doaks needs to be a bigger part of the offense going forward. I think we will start to see him average 10-15 touches per game the rest of the way.
This is what should and will happen. Doaks was banged up this year so it would've happened earlier. Fick admitted Warren was worn down last season after he rode every ounce out of him. There were several games last season that we would not have won if not for Truck running the rock. So, he's earned that trust as our workhorse back. Now that we're in the last half season grind look for Doaks to get more playing time to keep Warren fresh and offer a different style, different look to opposing defenses.
I think as fans we have every right to question Ridder and his performance, but I trust the coaching staff and their analysis of these QB's. The most popular QB is often the backup. We have no idea what Bryant is like, or how he reads a defense. Until Ridder really blows a game, or until the offseason Ridder should be the guy.
(10-20-2019 10:33 AM)ucbandguy Wrote: Our Bearcats demonstrated that they are a "good" team.
I hear the frustration that they are not a "great" team that can overwhelm their opponents merely by walking out of the locker room. One of the marks of a good team is to be able to find a way to win when you don't perform at your highest level.
They have out performed our expectations (for most of us) this year. Not many of us were predicting 6-1 at this point.
Don't forget that this is still a relatively young team, with a few truly wonderful seniors. The overwhelming bulk of this team will be back next year. I expect they will be even better next year with more experience under their belts.
I am enjoying the ride.
Well said ucbandguy. Well said. I don't feel guilt or shame or pissiness that we're 6-1 [3-0] and in first place in the East LOL. Just win. Most of us blokes picked this team to finish 9-3 this year so we're on pace to do that and better!
(10-20-2019 06:00 AM)RealDeal Wrote: Don't get me wrong we'll win the division this year with Ridder. But if we're trying to get to a top 10-NY6 G5 rep level we need to get better play at QB. And he's 20 games into his career it's not like he's inexperienced, we're probably looking at what he is with probably marginal improvement over the next 20+ starts.
And the young talent on this roster especially defense is insane. We've got a chance to be really special for the next few years with above average QB play.
I can agree with this in terms of timing. Does anyone think the head coach is going to announce to a first place team in the East division during the bye week that because Ridder is not getting it done from a raw numbers standpoint that a guy with no real game experience is going to become the starter? CLF is not going to disrupt winning and team chemistry at this point in the season. I don't disagree with that logic at all. Let's say he does make a change and Bryant goes out and throws 3 picks and is the biggest reason for a loss - then what? People would be calling for Fick's head. Book it. I don't doubt for a minute that Fick knows that side of the ball needs some improvement and better consistency. He made the decision last year to go with the frosh Ridder over the veteran Moore. I have complete faith that if or when he feels another QB on the roster gives us a better chance to win consistently that he'll make the change. That time is not now. The best case scenario is Bryant should get some snaps in the late 3Q or early 4Q the next time we're up on someone with a comfortable lead. That would be smart also in case Ridder goes down with an injury. After the season, open up the competition at QB to include the frosh Prater and see where the chips fall.
(10-20-2019 10:04 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote: As much as I like Michael Warren, I agree with others that Gerrid Doaks needs to be a bigger part of the offense going forward. I think we will start to see him average 10-15 touches per game the rest of the way.
This is what should and will happen. Doaks was banged up this year so it would've happened earlier. Fick admitted Warren was worn down last season after he rode every ounce out of him. There were several games last season that we would not have won if not for Truck running the rock. So, he's earned that trust as our workhorse back. Now that we're in the last half season grind look for Doaks to get more playing time to keep Warren fresh and offer a different style, different look to opposing defenses.
Nobody is saying that Bryant is the answer. We are saying we are skeptical that Ridder is the answer and that we are not convinced he can lead us where we are trying to go.
It would be nice to know what Bryant can do but I don’t think anyone has expectations that Ridder won’t be starting the rest of the year, as long as we are winning.
(10-20-2019 10:56 AM)Banter Wrote: I think as fans we have every right to question Ridder and his performance, but I trust the coaching staff and their analysis of these QB's. The most popular QB is often the backup. We have no idea what Bryant is like, or how he reads a defense. Until Ridder really blows a game, or until the offseason Ridder should be the guy.
I don't disagree but that's why there's fans and then there's the head coach that is paid to win games and make these decisions.
(10-19-2019 08:44 PM)RealDeal Wrote: I think you're right. They weren't giving Doaks any carries until Warren was hurt. Even when he was in they were throwing it or Des would keep it. I think we lose if Warren doesn't go down
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Doaks is better than Warren. Warren did good last year when we had a dominant oline but he has not been good this year. 4.4 yards or whatever he has averaged is not good for college football. He averages under 4 yards in every quarter but the 3rd (he had a couple big runs that drastically boosted his numbers).
Warren is good but way too slow and leaves a lot of extra yards on the field. This coupled with the fact our QB is not a threat really makes the offense struggle.
What?
Not sure what's confusing. Warren hasn't even been a top 50 back this year.
The new narrative of Micheal Warren not being good this year has me very confused. A young offensive line, an entire season of tape, not to mention other backs splitting the load have all eaten into his production. Warren has been fine, and as the O-Line gets better he will return to form.
I'm basing my opinion on pretty much every metric available as well as the eye test. Warren has not been very good this year. Last year was different, but this year he looks so slow and I think we would be a better offense with a quicker back. Warren doesn't wear defenses down this year. He still only averages 3. something yards in the 4th quarter just like he does in the whole 1st half. That's not good.
Part of it's the oline but it's not like our line is bad this year. It's still a pretty good line just last year was really good. So how much of his "wear them down" was due to last years oline? He's averaging a full yard less then last year. Also, prior to getting hurt yesterday, he still had some of the most rushes in the NCAA; he is not being under worked at all.
(This post was last modified: 10-20-2019 11:08 AM by Sweetness.)
(10-19-2019 08:44 PM)RealDeal Wrote: I think you're right. They weren't giving Doaks any carries until Warren was hurt. Even when he was in they were throwing it or Des would keep it. I think we lose if Warren doesn't go down
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Doaks is better than Warren. Warren did good last year when we had a dominant oline but he has not been good this year. 4.4 yards or whatever he has averaged is not good for college football. He averages under 4 yards in every quarter but the 3rd (he had a couple big runs that drastically boosted his numbers).
Warren is good but way too slow and leaves a lot of extra yards on the field. This coupled with the fact our QB is not a threat really makes the offense struggle.
What?
Not sure what's confusing. Warren hasn't even been a top 50 back this year.
The new narrative of Micheal Warren not being good this year has me very confused. A young offensive line, an entire season of tape, not to mention other backs splitting the load have all eaten into his production. Warren has been fine, and as the O-Line gets better he will return to form.
UC mostly limits itself to running about 3 different running plays for Warren out of the same formation. It’s not like teams don’t know what is coming pre snap a lot of the time. When teams pack the line and hold the edge it has a way of making you look a bit slower.
(This post was last modified: 10-20-2019 12:38 PM by rath v2.0.)
(10-20-2019 06:00 AM)RealDeal Wrote: Don't get me wrong we'll win the division this year with Ridder. But if we're trying to get to a top 10-NY6 G5 rep level we need to get better play at QB. And he's 20 games into his career it's not like he's inexperienced, we're probably looking at what he is with probably marginal improvement over the next 20+ starts.
And the young talent on this roster especially defense is insane. We've got a chance to be really special for the next few years with above average QB play.
I can agree with this in terms of timing. Does anyone think the head coach is going to announce to a first place team in the East division during the bye week that because Ridder is not getting it done from a raw numbers standpoint that a guy with no real game experience is going to become the starter? CLF is not going to disrupt winning and team chemistry at this point in the season. I don't disagree with that logic at all. Let's say he does make a change and Bryant goes out and throws 3 picks and is the biggest reason for a loss - then what? People would be calling for Fick's head. Book it. I don't doubt for a minute that Fick knows that side of the ball needs some improvement and better consistency. He made the decision last year to go with the frosh Ridder over the veteran Moore. I have complete faith that if or when he feels another QB on the roster gives us a better chance to win consistently that he'll make the change. That time is not now. The best case scenario is Bryant should get some snaps in the late 3Q or early 4Q the next time we're up on someone with a comfortable lead. That would be smart also in case Ridder goes down with an injury. After the season, open up the competition at QB to include the frosh Prater and see where the chips fall.
(10-20-2019 10:04 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote: As much as I like Michael Warren, I agree with others that Gerrid Doaks needs to be a bigger part of the offense going forward. I think we will start to see him average 10-15 touches per game the rest of the way.
This is what should and will happen. Doaks was banged up this year so it would've happened earlier. Fick admitted Warren was worn down last season after he rode every ounce out of him. There were several games last season that we would not have won if not for Truck running the rock. So, he's earned that trust as our workhorse back. Now that we're in the last half season grind look for Doaks to get more playing time to keep Warren fresh and offer a different style, different look to opposing defenses.
We know coach evaluates everyone , and it’s fun to debate. But does any reporters ask these basic Q’s??
Has Coach mentioned anything about how Bryant’s doing in practice? Does anybody have inside information on how he is developing?
How close was he in Spring ball and camp?
Warren looks a little slow , and little too heavy.
(This post was last modified: 10-20-2019 03:10 PM by ZCat.)
(10-19-2019 10:09 PM)C1ncy4Life Wrote: I think that’s where a lot of us saying we are skeptical of Ridder are at. We don’t know if Bryant is the answer, but we aren’t convinced Ridder can take us where we are trying to get.
He seemed to miss reads where receivers were open and instead threw it deep into tight coverage, including double coverage at times. He overthrew receivers several times as well.
He was even worse than what the stats showed, IMO. Pierce made a tremendous catch on a ball thrown 49 yards into double coverage that looked like it was going to be picked off. Doaks took a short pass 28 yards into the end zone after breaking multiple tackles and making a tremendous effort to get into the end zone.
Hopefully he bounces back, because we can’t continue to expect the defense to bail us out and get 4-5 turnovers every game.
Don't get me wrong we'll win the division this year with Ridder. But if we're trying to get to a top 10-NY6 G5 rep level we need to get better play at QB. And he's 20 games into his career it's not like he's inexperienced, we're probably looking at what he is with probably marginal improvement over the next 20+ starts.
And the young talent on this roster especially defense is insane. We've got a chance to be really special for the next few years with above average QB play.
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I’m not fully convinced we can win the American with Ridder. Are you confident he can win against Temple, Memphis, and SMU (CCG), I’m back to back to back weeks? I’m not saying we won’t, but it’s far from a given.
Otherwise, I agree and I have higher hopes for this team over the next few years. We have a ton of talent and hopefully can use it to get a NY6 bowl game.
Confident? I'm not sure I'd use that term. I do expect to beat Temple at home and finish 7-1 in the division. Remember I said division and not conference. I expect to lose at Memphis and at the title game how unless we add a passing game
(10-20-2019 02:44 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote: Sorta my expectation right now. But run this offense and don’t get 4+ turnovers Temple can easily win at Nippert.
I’ve been thinking about that a lot. This team needs multiple turnovers to win. Those can come and go. What happens when they go?
(10-19-2019 10:30 PM)Sweetness Wrote: Doaks is better than Warren. Warren did good last year when we had a dominant oline but he has not been good this year. 4.4 yards or whatever he has averaged is not good for college football. He averages under 4 yards in every quarter but the 3rd (he had a couple big runs that drastically boosted his numbers).
Warren is good but way too slow and leaves a lot of extra yards on the field. This coupled with the fact our QB is not a threat really makes the offense struggle.
What?
Not sure what's confusing. Warren hasn't even been a top 50 back this year.
The new narrative of Micheal Warren not being good this year has me very confused. A young offensive line, an entire season of tape, not to mention other backs splitting the load have all eaten into his production. Warren has been fine, and as the O-Line gets better he will return to form.
I'm basing my opinion on pretty much every metric available as well as the eye test. Warren has not been very good this year. Last year was different, but this year he looks so slow and I think we would be a better offense with a quicker back. Warren doesn't wear defenses down this year. He still only averages 3. something yards in the 4th quarter just like he does in the whole 1st half. That's not good.
Part of it's the oline but it's not like our line is bad this year. It's still a pretty good line just last year was really good. So how much of his "wear them down" was due to last years oline? He's averaging a full yard less then last year. Also, prior to getting hurt yesterday, he still had some of the most rushes in the NCAA; he is not being under worked at all.
2 things:
1. I've never encountered someone so hellbent on discounting successful running in Q3 and I still don't get what it's about. I've heard many analysists talk about that first series in Q3 as the most important one of the game (not that I necessarily buy it).
2. I guess you could give some consideration to WR or kicking (as opposed to punting), but OL is clearly the weakness of this team especially with the recent injuries.
(This post was last modified: 10-20-2019 05:21 PM by Bearhawkeye.)
(10-19-2019 08:38 PM)Romell Shorter Wrote: Might sound bad, but had Warren not been hurt, I think UC loses today. Doaks might have had my all time favorite UC TD. Did anyone notice his chip block on the guy that beat Metz? I saw that live and said nice block. And then ensuing catch and run was beautiful, too.
P.s. What is wrong with Warren? He looks slow this year.
I think you're right. They weren't giving Doaks any carries until Warren was hurt. Even when he was in they were throwing it or Des would keep it. I think we lose if Warren doesn't go down
Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk
Doaks is better than Warren. Warren did good last year when we had a dominant oline but he has not been good this year. 4.4 yards or whatever he has averaged is not good for college football. He averages under 4 yards in every quarter but the 3rd (he had a couple big runs that drastically boosted his numbers).
Warren is good but way too slow and leaves a lot of extra yards on the field. This coupled with the fact our QB is not a threat really makes the offense struggle.
What?
Not sure what's confusing. Warren hasn't even been a top 50 back this year.
I like Doaks very much, but he is not better than Warren. I don’t think our o-line was dominant last year. It was better than expected, but I don’t think I would call it dominant. And I don’t think you can hang all of Warren’s success last year on that line. A lot of it was the truck being the truck.
Our current o-line is a work in progress at best. The holes and push are not there consistently and unfortunately everyone knows we want to run the ball. The playcalling needs to be a bit more creative as of now option 1,2,3 is Warren taking a handoff. I believe Warren is getting worn down, but he is still the man. Doaks probably would have gotten more carries this year but looks like he was gimpy until recently. As yesterday showed, a healthy Doaks is still very capable and is a great option to have on the bench. I do agree with previous poster that performance demonstrates he deserves more of a 1 and 1a type of roll. I don’t know what the hell is going on with Tavion Thomas, but it’s irritating.
Not sure what's confusing. Warren hasn't even been a top 50 back this year.
The new narrative of Micheal Warren not being good this year has me very confused. A young offensive line, an entire season of tape, not to mention other backs splitting the load have all eaten into his production. Warren has been fine, and as the O-Line gets better he will return to form.
I'm basing my opinion on pretty much every metric available as well as the eye test. Warren has not been very good this year. Last year was different, but this year he looks so slow and I think we would be a better offense with a quicker back. Warren doesn't wear defenses down this year. He still only averages 3. something yards in the 4th quarter just like he does in the whole 1st half. That's not good.
Part of it's the oline but it's not like our line is bad this year. It's still a pretty good line just last year was really good. So how much of his "wear them down" was due to last years oline? He's averaging a full yard less then last year. Also, prior to getting hurt yesterday, he still had some of the most rushes in the NCAA; he is not being under worked at all.
2 things:
1. I've never encountered someone so hellbent on discounting successful running in Q3 and I still don't get what it's about. I've heard many analysists talk about that first series in Q3 as the most important one of the game (not that I necessarily buy it).
2. I guess you could give some consideration to WR or kicking (as opposed to punting), but OL is clearly the weakness of this team especially with the recent injuries.
"So hellbent". I literally made 1 post. He's had 2 run of 60+ which were both in the 3rd quarter. Other than those 2 runs he's averaged under 4ypc just like the other 3 quarters. I mean you can keep trying but this really isn't even a debate. He has not been good this year.
(This post was last modified: 10-20-2019 07:33 PM by Sweetness.)
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Game Day Thread: Cincy vs. Tulsa
