In regards to win-loss records, what would be your program’s standards ??
Listening to the Cincy-Houston game while waiting to leave the bg stadium this past weekend, the announcers quoted Houston’s AD as saying - “ Our season standards are at least 10-2, 8-4 will get you fired around here “.

(10-13-2019 04:56 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  In regards to win-loss records, what would be your program’s standards ??
Listening to the Cincy-Houston game while waiting to leave the bg stadium this past weekend, the announcers quoted Houston’s AD as saying - “ Our season standards are at least 10-2, 8-4 will get you fired around here “.

The culture around WMU seems to be 6-7 wins, but with the fanbase, facilities, and donors, the win column standards should be up to the 9-10 win mark.

I think too many 6W seasons will get you fired at WMU. Chances are, you'll hit an occasional 5W, which is stronger (in the negative) than the occasional 7W the opposite way.

5W - This better be a rarity in some rebuilding year w/ injuries. Otherwise, your a$$ is grass if it happens again.
6W - Sub-par. Your job's not on the line. Just don't let it happen very often.
7W - Par. Your job's 100% secure.
8W - Great. Makes up for a 5W season that sneaks up on ya.
9W - Wonderful! Mo money, no problems.
10W - Second Coming of PJ Fleck?!

6-2 in conference and beat the FCS team on the schedule. 5-3 is okay here or there especially if a lot of injuries.

(10-13-2019 05:36 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  I think too many 6W seasons will get you fired at WMU. Chances are, you'll hit an occasional 5W, which is stronger (in the negative) than the occasional 7W the opposite way.

5W - This better be a rarity in some rebuilding year w/ injuries. Otherwise, your a$$ is grass if it happens again.
6W - Sub-par. Your job's not on the line. Just don't let it happen very often.
7W - Par. Your job's 100% secure.
8W - Great. Makes up for a 5W season that sneaks up on ya.
9W - Wonderful! Mo money, no problems.
10W - Second Coming of PJ Fleck?!

Yep, exactly.

I think admin is happy with 7. I think admin should be targeting 8 (if not more).

9+ makes me feel spoiled, 8 makes me happy, 7 can't call a failure, 6 or less disappointing.

7 or 8 you're usually a pretty good MAC team, winning most MAC games, probably finishing 2-2 out of conference, falling just short of a division title, the losses coming to the P5 teams on the schedule and the top 1 or 2 MAC teams in-conference.

Kent State: "Standards? Say what? I believe you've reached the wrong number, let me give you the number of the basketball program. I will say off the record that we have hopes of going bowling sometime, but don't quote me on what year that might be."

Quote:I think admin is happy with 7. I think admin should be targeting 8 (if not more).

I think they're content with 7 -- but happy with it when they're climbing out of the rubble of a season or two of under .500.

I also think in the end, it depends on the schedule. If we enter in a season stocked with upper-classmen and it's our ideal year -- while playing a 6-6 NW + 4-win Illinois team + roughly-500 G5 at home + FCS -- with our toughest MAC opponents more at home than away.... 7W is disappointing. On the flip side, if we're in more a rebuilding year, play 2 power-P5s + 1 mediocre P5 + FCS, with more of our toughest MAC opponents away than at home... 7W is pretty sweet.

I think in order to keep the alumni financing going -- we'd need to have rebuilding years rarely make us take a big dip, even with a tougher schedule. To be stacked where injuries are only going to slide it by 1 game, having bench being deep with talent, etc. Where 7W is a LOW (not 5W), 8W being quite common, and 9W being great but not special -- where 10W in regular season is.

That's pretty tough to do. No team in the MAC can Expect to go undefeated in any back-to-back years, and even 1 year would be pretty darn special. But basically hitting 6-2 as a norm, with 2x more 0L + 1L conf seasons than 3L conf seasons. Tough to do when coaches get called up to P5 (not G5 when you pay out high like we do).

But I can't Expect us to hit that with Lester. A step below it. Where our locked-n-loaded years will be 9W max, 8W once in a while happening but thanks to a good schedule setup and us having a good lineup, but more often 7W with 6W not being rare, but 5W being very uncommon requiring a reloading year + injuries on a not so sweet schedule.

(10-13-2019 09:33 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Kent State: "Standards? Say what? I believe you've reached the wrong number, let me give you the number of the basketball program. I will say off the record that we have hopes of going bowling sometime, but don't quote me on what year that might be."

I would say 10 wins is the standard at KSU. Fewer than 10 wins during your first four-year contract and you might not get an extension. Unless you start with zero wins the first year, two the second, three the third, but then FIVE in the fourth year. If that's how you get your ten wins, they might start planning a statue on the plaza.

There's a solid list of former KSU football coaches who never got to 10 wins in their careers there.

(10-14-2019 07:29 AM)axeme Wrote:  

(10-13-2019 09:33 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Kent State: "Standards? Say what? I believe you've reached the wrong number, let me give you the number of the basketball program. I will say off the record that we have hopes of going bowling sometime, but don't quote me on what year that might be."

I would say 10 wins is the standard at KSU. Fewer than 10 wins during your first four-year contract and you might not get an extension. Unless you start with zero wins the first year, two the second, three the third, but then FIVE in the fourth year. If that's how you get your ten wins, they might start planning a statue on the plaza.

There's a solid list of former KSU football coaches who never got to 10 wins in their careers there.

(I had to look it up.)
Kent St. coaches who had fewer than 10 wins:

The list includes those coaches from now back to the 1960's and omits the three coaches from the 20's and 30's who had 1, 0, and 4 wins.

Jim Corrigall-8
Pete Cordelli-3
Dick Crum-7
Dick Sesniak-8
Ed Chlebak-4
Ron Blackedge-8
Dave Fuddington-9

Honorable mention goes to our most recently fired coach Paul Haynes, who, while he did have 14 wins, took 5 years to do it.

Akron probably has one of the lower bars in the MAC. Bowden managed to survive 7 seasons with at 35-52 (23-33 in MAC play) record and there was still a vocal minority who didn't want to see him fired as they thought "he's the best Akron can do". Some even called him the Dambrot of Akron football. If Akron hired a coach who consistently won 7-8 games per year he'd probably get a statue.

(10-14-2019 10:39 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  Akron probably has one of the lower bars in the MAC. Bowden managed to survive 7 seasons with at 35-52 (23-33 in MAC play) record and there was still a vocal minority who didn't want to see him fired as they thought "he's the best Akron can do". Some even called him the Dambrot of Akron football. If Akron hired a coach who consistently won 7-8 games per year he'd probably get a statue.

No, he would get a real job.

Toledos is 9 after a bowl game. Some not so good seasons like 2014 were saved by fun bowl wins. 2011 we won 9 and beat AF in the bowl game. That schedule was very tough and the MAC was good. 7-6 was very unnacceptable last year. Losing to Akron to end up 7-5 in 2013 was hard to swallow. Even though we had some good wins and played the leagues toughest SOS.

In Bowling Green, we expect to play for championships. We have been patient with coaches at times, but if the program isn't on track to regularly compete for a division title, at some point, Bowling Green will make a change. Two examples illustrate where the line is in Bowling Green:

Gregg Brandon. Won the West in 2003 (11-3). Fell short in 2004 (9-3), 2005 (6-5), and 2006 (4-8). Tied for first in the East in 2007 (8-5), but lost the tie breaker to Buffalo. Went 6-6 in 2008 and his contract was not renewed.

Don Nehlen. Only had one losing season between 1968 and 1976, but never finished better than third in the MAC after 1972. Went 6–3–1 in 1968, 6-4 in 1969, 2–6–1 in 1970, 6–4 in 1971, 6–3–1 in 1972, 7–3 in 1973, 6–4–1 in 1974, and 8–3 in 1975. Went 6-5 in 1976 and his contract was not renewed.

I think the expansion of bowl season has really watered down expectations. When there were fewer bowls, you had to be about 8-4 to even have a chance at picking up a bowl bid. Now 6-6 (which is really a mediocre season) gets you a bowl invite almost every time. That can make what would have otherwise been a "meh" season seem a lot more palatable. That's even exacerbated by the fact that many years a 6-6 MAC team is really a sub-500 team that is propped up by wins over some really weak programs.

(10-13-2019 11:11 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  

Quote:I think admin is happy with 7. I think admin should be targeting 8 (if not more).

That's pretty tough to do. No team in the MAC can Expect to go undefeated in any back-to-back years, and even 1 year would be pretty darn special.

UCF and Boise do it

Quote:

Quote:That's pretty tough to do. No team in the MAC can Expect to go undefeated in any back-to-back years, and even 1 year would be pretty darn special.

UCF and Boise do it

They're not in the MAC. And when UCF was in the MAC, they didn't come close to that.

Temple won the AAC. How far did they get in the MAC? :)

NIU was a stand-out for many years, and CMU had their time in the spotlight as well. It CAN happen. But it'd be silly to Expect it -- Until you Already got the wheels churning on a great season after several good ones + only improving.