UConn's exit fee might come in handy!
https://www.chron.com/sports/cougars/art...363564.php

(08-20-2019 11:58 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  UConn's exit fee might come in handy!
https://www.chron.com/sports/cougars/art...363564.php

If the truth were known, and it may come out, i bet this complaintant is correct, UH probably did not follow the mandated hiring process.

Whether it's worth $20m or not, I don't know.

(08-20-2019 12:04 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 11:58 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  UConn's exit fee might come in handy!
https://www.chron.com/sports/cougars/art...363564.php

If the truth were known, and it may come out, i bet this complaintant is correct, UH probably did not follow the mandated hiring process.

Whether it's worth $20m or not, I don't know.

He can't show that he was damaged, nor can he prove that he was a "more qualified" coach.

Quote:The lawsuit seeks damage for "loss (sic) wages, loss (sic) earning capacity, future pecuniary losses, emotional pain, suffering, inconvenient (sic), mental anguish, loss of enjoyment of life ..." Simms requests a jury trial.

Simms also seeks actual compensatory damages, including "back pay and front pay and loss of all employment benefits." He's also filed with Texas Workforce Commission and U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.

In the lawsuit, Simms claims to have "over 30 years of coaching experience and is clearly more qualified than Dana Holgersen (sic)." A search found no listings of any previous coaching jobs for Simms.

UH shaking in their boots!

A class action on behalf of a few dozen African American coaches would have more chance than a single coach. It's nearly impossible to claim you'd be the one chosen.

I could see the court awarding $1 acknowledging that UH did not follow procedure.

But even posting, that has nothing to do with the reality of how candidates are chosen for interview. You can send you resume, but that doesn't get you an interview, and in fact only 1 on 50 or 100 will get an interview form that. At the executive level, which head coaching is, candidates are sought out based on their track record and experience level, usually contacted without ever having applied.

What would be more effective would be a Rooney Rule for College Football and Basketball coaches. Forcing at least 1 in 4 candidates interviewed by minority. That would force a more inclusive search process.

This is a crap law suit. Sims would need to prove that he would have actually been chosen over Holg by UH. Where did he spend all those years coaching because I’ve never even heard of the man.

(08-20-2019 12:40 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  This is a crap law suit. Sims would need to prove that he would have actually been chosen over Holg by UH. Where did he spend all those years coaching because I’ve never even heard of the man.

No clue. He's the Director/President/whatever of his African American Coaches Association. That's all I could find.

(08-20-2019 12:04 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 11:58 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  UConn's exit fee might come in handy!
https://www.chron.com/sports/cougars/art...363564.php

If the truth were known, and it may come out, i bet this complaintant is correct, UH probably did not follow the mandated hiring process.

Whether it's worth $20m or not, I don't know.

I suspect we did not follow the proper process. I also suspect the damages to the plantiff are zero as Mr Simms had absolutely no chance of being hired over Dana. In fact, with 8 years of head coaching experience at the P5 level---I dont believe anyone was likely "more qualified" than who UH ended up hiring.

(08-20-2019 01:15 PM)VNova Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 12:40 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  This is a crap law suit. Sims would need to prove that he would have actually been chosen over Holg by UH. Where did he spend all those years coaching because I’ve never even heard of the man.

No clue. He's the Director/President/whatever of his African American Coaches Association. That's all I could find.

If you check, I suspect all 3 organizations I suspect have the same address and phone number.

(08-20-2019 01:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 12:04 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 11:58 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  UConn's exit fee might come in handy!
https://www.chron.com/sports/cougars/art...363564.php

If the truth were known, and it may come out, i bet this complaintant is correct, UH probably did not follow the mandated hiring process.

Whether it's worth $20m or not, I don't know.

I suspect we did not follow the proper process. I also suspect the damages to the plantiff are zero as Mr Simms had absolutely no chance of being hired over Dana. In fact, with 8 years of head coaching experience at the P5 level---I dont believe anyone was likely "more qualified" than who UH ended up hiring.

Whether or not Simms, or any other coach would have been hired instead is irrelevant. If the lawsuit claims are correct, Houston violated the law with the hire. Open posting laws are on the books for a reason - to stop the good ol boy network that limits the possibility of someone outside the "club" of getting an opportunity.


Of course, when you let a private businessman run your University and athletic department, these are the type of lawsuits you should expect.

(08-20-2019 01:43 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 01:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 12:04 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 11:58 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  UConn's exit fee might come in handy!
https://www.chron.com/sports/cougars/art...363564.php

If the truth were known, and it may come out, i bet this complaintant is correct, UH probably did not follow the mandated hiring process.

Whether it's worth $20m or not, I don't know.

I suspect we did not follow the proper process. I also suspect the damages to the plantiff are zero as Mr Simms had absolutely no chance of being hired over Dana. In fact, with 8 years of head coaching experience at the P5 level---I dont believe anyone was likely "more qualified" than who UH ended up hiring.

Whether or not Simms, or any other coach would have been hired instead is irrelevant. If the lawsuit claims are correct, Houston violated the law with the hire. Open posting laws are on the books for a reason - to stop the good ol boy network that limits the possibility of someone outside the "club" of getting an opportunity.


Of course, when you let a private businessman run your University and athletic department, these are the type of lawsuits you should expect.

That might be true but it doesn't mean this guy is entitled to money for it. I'm sure there are other legal repercussions prescribed in the law. He has to prove he was denied the opportunity (check) and that it was done so based on racial discrimination (good luck with that)

FTR - I'm not an attorney but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

(08-20-2019 01:43 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 01:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 12:04 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 11:58 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  UConn's exit fee might come in handy!
https://www.chron.com/sports/cougars/art...363564.php

If the truth were known, and it may come out, i bet this complaintant is correct, UH probably did not follow the mandated hiring process.

Whether it's worth $20m or not, I don't know.

I suspect we did not follow the proper process. I also suspect the damages to the plantiff are zero as Mr Simms had absolutely no chance of being hired over Dana. In fact, with 8 years of head coaching experience at the P5 level---I dont believe anyone was likely "more qualified" than who UH ended up hiring.

Whether or not Simms, or any other coach would have been hired instead is irrelevant. If the lawsuit claims are correct, Houston violated the law with the hire. Open posting laws are on the books for a reason - to stop the good ol boy network that limits the possibility of someone outside the "club" of getting an opportunity.


Of course, when you let a private businessman run your University and athletic department, these are the type of lawsuits you should expect.

Yes, that's correct. There are damages if a public position isn't posted openly in accordance with the law regardless of whether the claimant would have been hired in theory. Now, in practicality, the damages may not be anywhere close to $20 million in this case, but the point is that a school (or any other employer) definitely *cannot* use a defense that it wasn't going to hire a claimant when the lack of a job posting prevented the claimant from applying for that job in the first place. That argument would be thrown out on its face. You can defend yourself if you throw out a resume of an applicant because he/she wasn't qualified after reviewing it, but the key word there is *applicant*. You can't hypothetically argue that you wouldn't have hired someone when that person was blocked (under the eyes of the law) from even having the opportunity to apply for the job entirely.

(08-20-2019 01:43 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 01:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 12:04 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 11:58 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  UConn's exit fee might come in handy!
https://www.chron.com/sports/cougars/art...363564.php

If the truth were known, and it may come out, i bet this complaintant is correct, UH probably did not follow the mandated hiring process.

Whether it's worth $20m or not, I don't know.

I suspect we did not follow the proper process. I also suspect the damages to the plantiff are zero as Mr Simms had absolutely no chance of being hired over Dana. In fact, with 8 years of head coaching experience at the P5 level---I dont believe anyone was likely "more qualified" than who UH ended up hiring.

Whether or not Simms, or any other coach would have been hired instead is irrelevant. If the lawsuit claims are correct, Houston violated the law with the hire. Open posting laws are on the books for a reason - to stop the good ol boy network that limits the possibility of someone outside the "club" of getting an opportunity.


Of course, when you let a private businessman run your University and athletic department, these are the type of lawsuits you should expect.

But posting doesn't work at the executive or skilled employee level. In Silicon Valley we post jobs for legal requirements but ignore 99% of resumes that come in, except the 1% which check all the automated screening points, at which point an HR person actually looks at them, and hand rejects most of those. Maybe one interview candidate comes out of that (same for online). In reality we use search firms (we pay them a fee if they bring us somebody we hire), to bring us candidates. And we call the people at other companies we are interested in to see if they'll come interview. The higher up the ladder the more it works that way. HC job is like hiring an executive team (i.e., CEO, CFO, CIO, etc). SO it's almost entirely going out and asking people you want. The posting is a joke.

The concept of public posting works fine at the low end jobs, but doesn't when you get up to executive positions.

If you want something that actually expands the pool to give minority candidates a shot, you need a Rooney rule in the NCAA, that you must interview a candidate or two who is a minority. That would have forced UH to ask the search firm to find a couple qualified minority candidates to present as possible interview choices. It may not lead to an immediate hire, but it will put those minority candidates on the radar of schools looking for HCs, and it will very likely lead to a few getting hired.

But doing this on a school by school basis is difficult. It needs to be Division I rule for Basketball and Football. IMO it should also apply to ADs.

(08-20-2019 01:43 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 01:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 12:04 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 11:58 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  UConn's exit fee might come in handy!
https://www.chron.com/sports/cougars/art...363564.php

If the truth were known, and it may come out, i bet this complaintant is correct, UH probably did not follow the mandated hiring process.

Whether it's worth $20m or not, I don't know.

I suspect we did not follow the proper process. I also suspect the damages to the plantiff are zero as Mr Simms had absolutely no chance of being hired over Dana. In fact, with 8 years of head coaching experience at the P5 level---I dont believe anyone was likely "more qualified" than who UH ended up hiring.

Whether or not Simms, or any other coach would have been hired instead is irrelevant. If the lawsuit claims are correct, Houston violated the law with the hire. Open posting laws are on the books for a reason - to stop the good ol boy network that limits the possibility of someone outside the "club" of getting an opportunity.


Of course, when you let a private businessman run your University and athletic department, these are the type of lawsuits you should expect.

To be fair, he's not just a private individual who's a big booster---he is the Chairman of the UH Board Of Regents.

(08-20-2019 02:05 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 01:43 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 01:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 12:04 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 11:58 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  UConn's exit fee might come in handy!
https://www.chron.com/sports/cougars/art...363564.php

If the truth were known, and it may come out, i bet this complaintant is correct, UH probably did not follow the mandated hiring process.

Whether it's worth $20m or not, I don't know.

I suspect we did not follow the proper process. I also suspect the damages to the plantiff are zero as Mr Simms had absolutely no chance of being hired over Dana. In fact, with 8 years of head coaching experience at the P5 level---I dont believe anyone was likely "more qualified" than who UH ended up hiring.

Whether or not Simms, or any other coach would have been hired instead is irrelevant. If the lawsuit claims are correct, Houston violated the law with the hire. Open posting laws are on the books for a reason - to stop the good ol boy network that limits the possibility of someone outside the "club" of getting an opportunity.


Of course, when you let a private businessman run your University and athletic department, these are the type of lawsuits you should expect.

But posting doesn't work at the executive or skilled employee level. In Silicon Valley we post jobs for legal requirements but ignore 99% of resumes that come in, except the 1% which check all the automated screening points, at which point an HR person actually looks at them, and hand rejects most of those. Maybe one interview candidate comes out of that (same for online). In reality we use search firms (we pay them a fee if they bring us somebody we hire), to bring us candidates. And we call the people at other companies we are interested in to see if they'll come interview. The higher up the ladder the more it works that way. HC job is like hiring an executive team (i.e., CEO, CFO, CIO, etc). SO it's almost entirely going out and asking people you want. The posting is a joke.

The concept of public posting works fine at the low end jobs, but doesn't when you get up to executive positions.

If you want something that actually expands the pool to give minority candidates a shot, you need a Rooney rule in the NCAA, that you must interview a candidate or two who is a minority. That would have forced UH to ask the search firm to find a couple qualified minority candidates to present as possible interview choices. It may not lead to an immediate hire, but it will put those minority candidates on the radar of schools looking for HCs, and it will very likely lead to a few getting hired.

But doing this on a school by school basis is difficult. It needs to be Division I rule for Basketball and Football. IMO it should also apply to ADs.

Totally agree that executive postings are largely a formality and that something like the Rooney rule is what the NCAA would need in practicality to encourage minority hiring.

However, the core issue is still that Houston didn't go through that formality. It's not going to be a $20 million payout, but they'll likely need to offer something material (probably in the thousands of dollars) to the claimant in order to make this go away. Houston will probably need to concede that it didn't comply with the law, which means that it then becomes a matter of negotiating a settlement.

Isn't the part of his claim that "he's more qualified than Holgersen" with zero coaching experience enough to get this tossed out? Like I agree they should have posted it and probably should face some sort of fines/whatever from that, but this is clearly a money grab and exactly the type of thing that makes people scream for tort reform. I'm as qualified as this guy is to be Houston's head coach, does that mean I should file suit and say I'm more qualified than Holgersen?

(08-20-2019 02:05 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 01:43 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 01:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 12:04 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 11:58 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  UConn's exit fee might come in handy!
https://www.chron.com/sports/cougars/art...363564.php

If the truth were known, and it may come out, i bet this complaintant is correct, UH probably did not follow the mandated hiring process.

Whether it's worth $20m or not, I don't know.

I suspect we did not follow the proper process. I also suspect the damages to the plantiff are zero as Mr Simms had absolutely no chance of being hired over Dana. In fact, with 8 years of head coaching experience at the P5 level---I dont believe anyone was likely "more qualified" than who UH ended up hiring.

Whether or not Simms, or any other coach would have been hired instead is irrelevant. If the lawsuit claims are correct, Houston violated the law with the hire. Open posting laws are on the books for a reason - to stop the good ol boy network that limits the possibility of someone outside the "club" of getting an opportunity.


Of course, when you let a private businessman run your University and athletic department, these are the type of lawsuits you should expect.

But posting doesn't work at the executive or skilled employee level. In Silicon Valley we post jobs for legal requirements but ignore 99% of resumes that come in, except the 1% which check all the automated screening points, at which point an HR person actually looks at them, and hand rejects most of those. Maybe one interview candidate comes out of that (same for online). In reality we use search firms (we pay them a fee if they bring us somebody we hire), to bring us candidates. And we call the people at other companies we are interested in to see if they'll come interview. The higher up the ladder the more it works that way. HC job is like hiring an executive team (i.e., CEO, CFO, CIO, etc). SO it's almost entirely going out and asking people you want. The posting is a joke.

The concept of public posting works fine at the low end jobs, but doesn't when you get up to executive positions.

If you want something that actually expands the pool to give minority candidates a shot, you need a Rooney rule in the NCAA, that you must interview a candidate or two who is a minority. That would have forced UH to ask the search firm to find a couple qualified minority candidates to present as possible interview choices. It may not lead to an immediate hire, but it will put those minority candidates on the radar of schools looking for HCs, and it will very likely lead to a few getting hired.

But doing this on a school by school basis is difficult. It needs to be Division I rule for Basketball and Football. IMO it should also apply to ADs.

Silicon Valley aren't public institutions. That is the difference. TEXAS has a law that covers this. What Silicon Valley, or any other private company does is irrelevant.

(08-20-2019 02:09 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 01:43 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 01:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 12:04 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 11:58 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  UConn's exit fee might come in handy!
https://www.chron.com/sports/cougars/art...363564.php

If the truth were known, and it may come out, i bet this complaintant is correct, UH probably did not follow the mandated hiring process.

Whether it's worth $20m or not, I don't know.

I suspect we did not follow the proper process. I also suspect the damages to the plantiff are zero as Mr Simms had absolutely no chance of being hired over Dana. In fact, with 8 years of head coaching experience at the P5 level---I dont believe anyone was likely "more qualified" than who UH ended up hiring.

Whether or not Simms, or any other coach would have been hired instead is irrelevant. If the lawsuit claims are correct, Houston violated the law with the hire. Open posting laws are on the books for a reason - to stop the good ol boy network that limits the possibility of someone outside the "club" of getting an opportunity.


Of course, when you let a private businessman run your University and athletic department, these are the type of lawsuits you should expect.

To be fair, he's not just a private individual who's a big booster---he is the Chairman of the UH Board Of Regents.

Which he got BECAUSE he in essence bought the position.

He's acting like he is running one of his companies - where his hiring of a top exec in that manner would be perfectly legal and expected.

(08-20-2019 02:36 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Isn't the part of his claim that "he's more qualified than Holgersen" with zero coaching experience enough to get this tossed out? Like I agree they should have posted it and probably should face some sort of fines/whatever from that, but this is clearly a money grab and exactly the type of thing that makes people scream for tort reform. I'm as qualified as this guy is to be Houston's head coach, does that mean I should file suit and say I'm more qualified than Holgersen?

The money isn't the point of the lawsuit (if he wins, he will see little if any). The point is to expose the good ol boy process that violated Texas Law.

(08-20-2019 01:58 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Yes, that's correct. There are damages if a public position isn't posted openly in accordance with the law regardless of whether the claimant would have been hired in theory. Now, in practicality, the damages may not be anywhere close to $20 million in this case, but the point is that a school (or any other employer) definitely *cannot* use a defense that it wasn't going to hire a claimant when the lack of a job posting prevented the claimant from applying for that job in the first place. That argument would be thrown out on its face. You can defend yourself if you throw out a resume of an applicant because he/she wasn't qualified after reviewing it, but the key word there is *applicant*. You can't hypothetically argue that you wouldn't have hired someone when that person was blocked (under the eyes of the law) from even having the opportunity to apply for the job entirely.

None of us are privy to the inside discussions at the University level but rumors were already floating around that Major was fired the day of the bowl game (12/22/18) and not 12/30/18 when it was announced in the paper.

To be transparent (which this guy isn't) he was fired years ago from UH and has had a beef with them ever since. He has a history of being involved either directly or tangentially with shady behavior. He is an attention hound and this is just another example. He likely put this filing together himself why else would it take 8 months to submit? If any actual lawyers were involved this would have been handled more swiftly.

Oh and the 20 million is what we are paying the current coach and what he (or anyone else) "lost out" on.....

https://www.reddit.com/r/houston/comment...r_houston/

https://abc13.com/archive/7603290/

Edit: One more nugget is the "law" does state 10 days "unless the commission is sooner notified by the state agency having the vacancy that the vacancy has been filled"

"Sec. 656.024. PUBLIC NOTICE OF JOB VACANCIES. The commission shall publicly list, in accordance with the commission's procedures, for at least 10 working days, each notice of a job vacancy delivered under Section 656.022 unless the commission is sooner notified by the state agency having the vacancy that the vacancy has been filled."

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/...GV.656.htm