(06-13-2019 07:58 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(06-12-2019 09:51 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  The obvious remedy is a 9 conference game schedule but FSU and Clemson vetoed that idea.

So my new proposal would be:

9 conference games

All the rest of that post is noise, so I didn't include it. FSU and Clemson, among others, don't want 9 conference games. Their reasons have little to do with how they are scheduled.

You are probably right. But the league wanted the nine conference games and maybe push for it again in the future. I am for the nine game schedules personally.

(06-13-2019 02:20 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 02:14 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 12:59 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 12:39 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 11:03 AM)ken d Wrote:  How about:

South:
Clemson
Florida State
Miami
Georgia Tech
North Carolina
Duke
Virginia

North:
Virginia Tech
Louisville
Pitt
NC State
Boston College
Syracuse
Wake Forest

No fixed crossovers. All rivalry games not on the conference schedule added as OOC games.

You just killed VT/UVA and NC State/UNC.

Play them OOC. Or swap Virginia and NC State, making UNC/UVa the OOC game.

OOC games between conference teams defeats the purpose of being in the same conference. That's why we don't see them often.

Having 14 members defeats the purpose of being in the same conference. That's why we sometimes need OOC games between conference mates to continue long standing rivalries.

Again, the nine conference games will solve that problem. Big Ten/Pac 12 play 9 conference games.

If the ACC goes to a 9 conference game schedule I think they really need to make some special concessions for the schools that play SEC teams in rivalry weekend. I feel like we are already handicapped when we play a conference game, then turn around and play our SEC rival the following weekend. Meanwhile they purposely schedule a paycheck team the week before. Their starters are rested, ours have been in a dog fight. If this comes to pass, then I would be all for FSU dropping the series with UF. (Not a popular view with most FSU fans).

(06-13-2019 01:54 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 10:37 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 09:08 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 06:47 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(06-12-2019 09:51 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  The biggest problem of the current set up is too infrequent inter divisional games except for permanent rival games. The obvious remedy is a 9 conference game schedule but FSU and Clemson vetoed that idea.

So my new proposal (I am sure this idea has been discussed before) would be following:

9 conference games
1 crossover permanent rivial which plays every year (same as the current setup)
2 crossover secondary rivals which play every other year
4 crossover non rivals which play once a four years

To appease FSU and Clemson, they pick the secondary rivals first. My guess for the secondary rivals are:

FSU: GT and VT
Clemson: Miami and VT
Louisville: Miami and Pitt
Wake: UNC and UVa
NC State: Duke and UVa
Syracuse: GT and UNC
BC: Pitt and Duke

GT: Syracuse and FSU
UVa: NC state and Wake
VT: FSU and Clemson
Pitt: Louisville and BC
Miami: Louisville and Clemson
UNC: Syracuse and Wake
Duke: BC and NC state

Would FSU and Clemson buy this?

The pros include:

More frequent inter divisional games
More frequent big matchups (for example Clemson and Miami every other year and Clemson and VT the other years)
More inventory for ACCN

The cons include:

Harder path to the playoff
Rematch for the championship game is likely
One less spot for OOC game

At one time you would have found many FSU fans complain about the conference schedule, but ever since UofL happened I think most FSU fans have been satisfied. I still don’t understand why SU and BC are not in opposite divisions playing each other in a cross over rival game? Those that wish to play an extra conference game could always schedule it as an OOC game. I think that is the best compromise without forcing everybody in games they don’t want to play in, besides with ND on the schedule every 3rd or 4th year it gets very tricky to balance a 9 game conference schedule. It’s still a “no” for me.

I´ll be at FSU for the Cuse game this Fall. One of the easier tailgates to set up and run. If Cuse manages to beat FSU again I could see another mid-level rivalry form. It will never be on the level of UF, Miami, etc...but bump into a level just below those along with Louisville.

It took a while for FSU fans (and possibly Clemson fans) to acknowledge each other as rivals, but I think most have embraced it now. UofL seems to be on the fast track to also gaining that status. You’d think NCSU would have gotten there already, but it just does not feel like it.

Rivals are either created by geographical proximity or both teams playing games between top teams. Cuse isn´t near anyone (even BC is 5 hours away) so they won´t have any rivals in the ACC until they get back to the Top 25 year in, year out.

Bring on that rivalry with the University at Buffalo!

(06-13-2019 04:33 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  If the ACC goes to a 9 conference game schedule I think they really need to make some special concessions for the schools that play SEC teams in rivalry weekend. I feel like we are already handicapped when we play a conference game, then turn around and play our SEC rival the following weekend. Meanwhile they purposely schedule a paycheck team the week before. Their starters are rested, ours have been in a dog fight. If this comes to pass, then I would be all for FSU dropping the series with UF. (Not a popular view with most FSU fans).

The timing of when those rivalry games are played is one aspect, to be sure. But if the league were to go to a nine game schedule, their very existence is problematic. That means the SEC rivalry game is the 10th of 12, and in years when those teams play Notre Dame, 11 of 12 games are committed.

And for those teams, the ninth league opponent is almost always less desirable from either a travel or fan interest perspective (or both) than the other 8 league games and 1 SEC game they are already committed to.

Conversely, for some schools that don't have that SEC rivalry game, an ACC rival would be more desirable than the alternative. For example, when Wake plays UNC OOC, it benefits both teams at the gate (and at the water cooler). Why not allow - even encourage - games like that for the members that want it?

I can't see going to a 9th ACC game unless the NCAA allows a 13th game in Week Zero, and I don't expect that to happen.

(06-13-2019 08:28 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 04:33 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  If the ACC goes to a 9 conference game schedule I think they really need to make some special concessions for the schools that play SEC teams in rivalry weekend. I feel like we are already handicapped when we play a conference game, then turn around and play our SEC rival the following weekend. Meanwhile they purposely schedule a paycheck team the week before. Their starters are rested, ours have been in a dog fight. If this comes to pass, then I would be all for FSU dropping the series with UF. (Not a popular view with most FSU fans).

The timing of when those rivalry games are played is one aspect, to be sure. But if the league were to go to a nine game shedule, their very existence is problematic. That means the SEC rivalry game is the 10th of 12, and in years when those teams play Notre Dame, 11 of 12 games are committed.

And for those teams, the ninth league opponent is almost always less desirable from either a travel or fan interest perspective (or both) than the other 8 league games and 1 SEC game they are already committed to.

Conversely, for some schools that don't have that SEC rivalry game, an ACC rival would be more desirable than the alternative. For example, when Wake plays UNC OOC, it benefits both teams at the gate (and at the water cooler). Why not allow - even encourage - games like that for the members that want it?

I can't see going to a 9th ACC game unless the NCAA allows a 13th game in Week Zero, and I don't expect that to happen.

The ACC and SEC manufactured a rivalry game between Wake Forest and Vanderbilt before Louisville was added to the ACC.
The SEC and ACC needed to have an even number of rivalry games so that it did not leave an "odd man out" during rivalry weekend, thus the Wake Forest v. Vanderbilt series was born. That series ran for about 10 years before the Louisville v. Kentucky game become and ACC/SEC matchup.
You might see other manufactured rivalry games if the need arises.
For instance IF West Virginia were to join the SEC and renew the rivalry game with Pitt, we may see a corresponding game played between Tennessee and Virginia Tech.

(06-14-2019 04:40 AM)XLance Wrote:  The ACC and SEC manufactured a rivalry game between Wake Forest and Vanderbilt before Louisville was added to the ACC.
The SEC and ACC needed to have an even number of rivalry games so that it did not leave an "odd man out" during rivalry weekend, thus the Wake Forest v. Vanderbilt series was born. That series ran for about 10 years before the Louisville v. Kentucky game become and ACC/SEC matchup.
You might see other manufactured rivalry games if the need arises.
For instance IF West Virginia were to join the SEC and renew the rivalry game with Pitt, we may see a corresponding game played between Tennessee and Virginia Tech.

1. The ACC and SEC did not manufacture a rivalry game between Wake and Vandy. Wake and Vandy saw one another as like-minded programs (read: small, prestigious academic institutions, bottom dwellers of power P5 conferences, etc.) and wanted to play games that were more equal in capabilities. Wake and Vandy manufactured a series, nothing more nothing less.

2. They played one another 6 times during a 7-year stretch after Turkey Day between '07 and '13. They didn't play one another in '09. They didn't stop after the '13 game because UofL entered the ACC and had a game annually with UK. These contracts are made many years in advance - way before the ACC ever knew Maryland was leaving and UofL would be entering.

3. Vandy is back to playing rival Tennessee after Turkey Day weekend like they did for years.

4. The SEC is not inviting WVU in their country club and Tennessee has no desire to schedule Va Tech as an annual game. Further, there is no desire of the ACC and SEC to have annual rivalry games in addition to the ones that already exist...though, they don't have anything to do with any ACC vs SEC angle and far more to do with they are long-standing in-state rivalry games that preceded existence in the ACC or SEC. i.e., the FL-FSU, GA-GT, SC-CLEM, UK-UofL games would exist regardless of what conferences these institutions are a part of

Vanderbilt needed a Rivalry Week game because Tennessee was playing UK during that stretch. I think UMd may have been playing N.C. State or something.

I agree for the most part, but Louisville only got the UK Rivalry Week game when they joined the ACC. UK avoided the birds for years.

(06-13-2019 05:50 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 01:54 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 10:37 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 09:08 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 06:47 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  At one time you would have found many FSU fans complain about the conference schedule, but ever since UofL happened I think most FSU fans have been satisfied. I still don’t understand why SU and BC are not in opposite divisions playing each other in a cross over rival game? Those that wish to play an extra conference game could always schedule it as an OOC game. I think that is the best compromise without forcing everybody in games they don’t want to play in, besides with ND on the schedule every 3rd or 4th year it gets very tricky to balance a 9 game conference schedule. It’s still a “no” for me.

I´ll be at FSU for the Cuse game this Fall. One of the easier tailgates to set up and run. If Cuse manages to beat FSU again I could see another mid-level rivalry form. It will never be on the level of UF, Miami, etc...but bump into a level just below those along with Louisville.

It took a while for FSU fans (and possibly Clemson fans) to acknowledge each other as rivals, but I think most have embraced it now. UofL seems to be on the fast track to also gaining that status. You’d think NCSU would have gotten there already, but it just does not feel like it.

Rivals are either created by geographical proximity or both teams playing games between top teams. Cuse isn´t near anyone (even BC is 5 hours away) so they won´t have any rivals in the ACC until they get back to the Top 25 year in, year out.

Bring on that rivalry with the University at Buffalo!

Colgate was our old time rival. Buffalo will never gain much traction as long as the Bills are in Buffalo.

(06-14-2019 05:43 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(06-14-2019 04:40 AM)XLance Wrote:  The ACC and SEC manufactured a rivalry game between Wake Forest and Vanderbilt before Louisville was added to the ACC.
The SEC and ACC needed to have an even number of rivalry games so that it did not leave an "odd man out" during rivalry weekend, thus the Wake Forest v. Vanderbilt series was born. That series ran for about 10 years before the Louisville v. Kentucky game become and ACC/SEC matchup.
You might see other manufactured rivalry games if the need arises.
For instance IF West Virginia were to join the SEC and renew the rivalry game with Pitt, we may see a corresponding game played between Tennessee and Virginia Tech.

1. The ACC and SEC did not manufacture a rivalry game between Wake and Vandy. Wake and Vandy saw one another as like-minded programs (read: small, prestigious academic institutions, bottom dwellers of power P5 conferences, etc.) and wanted to play games that were more equal in capabilities. Wake and Vandy manufactured a series, nothing more nothing less.

2. They played one another 6 times during a 7-year stretch after Turkey Day between '07 and '13. They didn't play one another in '09. They didn't stop after the '13 game because UofL entered the ACC and had a game annually with UK. These contracts are made many years in advance - way before the ACC ever knew Maryland was leaving and UofL would be entering.

3. Vandy is back to playing rival Tennessee after Turkey Day weekend like they did for years.

4. The SEC is not inviting WVU in their country club and Tennessee has no desire to schedule Va Tech as an annual game. Further, there is no desire of the ACC and SEC to have annual rivalry games in addition to the ones that already exist...though, they don't have anything to do with any ACC vs SEC angle and far more to do with they are long-standing in-state rivalry games that preceded existence in the ACC or SEC. i.e., the FL-FSU, GA-GT, SC-CLEM, UK-UofL games would exist regardless of what conferences these institutions are a part of

(06-14-2019 06:37 AM)esayem Wrote:  Vanderbilt needed a Rivalry Week game because Tennessee was playing UK during that stretch. I think UMd may have been playing N.C. State or something.

I agree for the most part, but Louisville only got the UK Rivalry Week game when they joined the ACC. UK avoided the birds for years.

I could be wrong but I seem to recall Lousville and UK meeting on the gridiron long before Louisville ever thought about coming to the acc. I remember rooting for UL against UK back when our schools were in the BE. Ill let UL fans confirm this though.

(06-14-2019 09:08 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(06-14-2019 06:37 AM)esayem Wrote:  Vanderbilt needed a Rivalry Week game because Tennessee was playing UK during that stretch. I think UMd may have been playing N.C. State or something.

I agree for the most part, but Louisville only got the UK Rivalry Week game when they joined the ACC. UK avoided the birds for years.

I could be wrong but I seem to recall Lousville and UK meeting on the gridiron long before Louisville ever thought about coming to the acc. I remember rooting for UL against UK back when our schools were in the BE. Ill let UL fans confirm this though.

I think the key words were "Rivalry Week" as they used to face off early in the season and often opening weekend. They did go ~70 years without playing one another, but have continuously done so since 1994.

The UofL-UK series... http://mcubed.net/ncaaf/series/louis/ky.shtml

(06-14-2019 09:16 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(06-14-2019 09:08 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(06-14-2019 06:37 AM)esayem Wrote:  Vanderbilt needed a Rivalry Week game because Tennessee was playing UK during that stretch. I think UMd may have been playing N.C. State or something.

I agree for the most part, but Louisville only got the UK Rivalry Week game when they joined the ACC. UK avoided the birds for years.

I could be wrong but I seem to recall Lousville and UK meeting on the gridiron long before Louisville ever thought about coming to the acc. I remember rooting for UL against UK back when our schools were in the BE. Ill let UL fans confirm this though.

I think the key words were "Rivalry Week" as they used to face off early in the season and often opening weekend. They did go ~70 years without playing one another, but have continuously done so since 1994.

The UofL-UK series... http://mcubed.net/ncaaf/series/louis/ky.shtml

Right, Kentucky finally acknowledged Louisville as its football peer and put the game in Rivalry Week. Louisville's new ACC status made it so UK couldn't avoid it anymore, even though it was pretty much already well known.

(06-13-2019 08:59 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 04:45 AM)XLance Wrote:  I hope we are finished with the travelogue.

So if Esayem is correct and the ACC expands with Texas and Notre Dame, do the Longhorns to to one division and the Irish the other or do we start all over again?

My bet is that it's Texas to the coastal and Notre Dame to the Atlantic.

I was actually thinking the opposite. Maybe then trade VaTech for BC or something.

I really only see that happening if ND has to join a conference to make the playoffs. In hoops, it became harder and harder for Independents to schedule and make the Dance so ND and DePaul threw in the towel.

ND and Texas joining the ACC is very very unlikely as we all know. Texas joining as a partial member is more probable.

Question: Under the current rule, is it possible to count the ND game as a conference game? I can see the following scenario if Texas joins:

4 teams play 9th conference game
5 teams play Texas, counted as a conference game
5 teams play ND, counted as a conference game

Everyone plays 9 conference games every year. ND and Texas play five ACC games but are not quailified to play the conference championship.

I can’t imagine that would fly. Also, it’s tough for me to accept Texas as a partial member both from an ACC perspective and a Texas perspective. The only way I’d be in support of Texas is if it ensures the current makeup of the conference.

Until then, trade BC for Pitt and call it a day. Move the annual BC-SU game to Fenway and Yankee in October (after WS). Pitt gets VaTech as their cross division opponent. Either that or UVa-Pitt and VaTech-Louisville, let them vote. SU-Pitt and BC-Miami become Thanksgiving weekend games. A true zipper for everyone to enjoy!

Also, basketball scheduling partners need to be tweaked, c’mon Swoff!

(06-15-2019 08:50 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 08:59 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 04:45 AM)XLance Wrote:  I hope we are finished with the travelogue.

So if Esayem is correct and the ACC expands with Texas and Notre Dame, do the Longhorns to to one division and the Irish the other or do we start all over again?

My bet is that it's Texas to the coastal and Notre Dame to the Atlantic.

I was actually thinking the opposite. Maybe then trade VaTech for BC or something.

I really only see that happening if ND has to join a conference to make the playoffs. In hoops, it became harder and harder for Independents to schedule and make the Dance so ND and DePaul threw in the towel.

ND and Texas joining the ACC is very very unlikely as we all know. Texas joining as a partial member is more probable.

Question: Under the current rule, is it possible to count the ND game as a conference game? I can see the following scenario if Texas joins:

4 teams play 9th conference game
5 teams play Texas, counted as a conference game
5 teams play ND, counted as a conference game

Everyone plays 9 conference games every year. ND and Texas play five ACC games but are not quailified to play the conference championship.

Pretty creative. I think that this sort of “outside the box” thinking is what is needed to at least stay competitive with the SEC and BigTen

(06-15-2019 08:50 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 08:59 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 04:45 AM)XLance Wrote:  I hope we are finished with the travelogue.

So if Esayem is correct and the ACC expands with Texas and Notre Dame, do the Longhorns to to one division and the Irish the other or do we start all over again?

My bet is that it's Texas to the coastal and Notre Dame to the Atlantic.

I was actually thinking the opposite. Maybe then trade VaTech for BC or something.

I really only see that happening if ND has to join a conference to make the playoffs. In hoops, it became harder and harder for Independents to schedule and make the Dance so ND and DePaul threw in the towel.

ND and Texas joining the ACC is very very unlikely as we all know. Texas joining as a partial member is more probable.

Question: Under the current rule, is it possible to count the ND game as a conference game? I can see the following scenario if Texas joins:

4 teams play 9th conference game
5 teams play Texas, counted as a conference game
5 teams play ND, counted as a conference game

Everyone plays 9 conference games every year. ND and Texas play five ACC games but are not quailified to play the conference championship.

How about this :

ACC - Texas and ND each get a full share of the ACCN but have their own contracts for their football home games and receive none of the ACC's football TV revenue. Bowl revenue split evenly. UVA and VT will have to play an extra game in division vs. and opponent that they've already played that year.
-----
Coastal
-----
Duke - 9 conference games a year
Miami - 9 conference games a year
Notre Dame - 6 conference games a year in division only no Texas
North Carolina - 9 conference games a year
Pittsburgh - 9 conference games a year
Texas - 6 conference games a year in division only no ND
Virginia - 10 conference games a year
Virginia Tech - 10 conference games a year

Atlantic
-----
Boston College - 9 conference games a year
Clemson - 8 conference games a year
FSU - 8 conference games a year
Georgia Tech - 8 conference games a year
Louisville - 8 conference games a year
North Carolina State - 9 conference games a year
Syracuse - 9 conference games a year
Wake Forest - 9 conference games a year