I really want the Huge lovers to spin this. Tell me, again, how my posts are filled with speculation. Tell me all about how great Sammy is. C'mon, don't hide now. Bring that same level of vitriol that you brought 2 months ago.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

(05-10-2019 11:42 AM)Tribal Wrote:  I really want the Huge lovers to spin this. Tell me, again, how my posts are filled with speculation. Tell me all about how great Sammy is. C'mon, don't hide now. Bring that same level of vitriol that you brought 2 months ago.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Yeah, where is Tribal's pound of flesh for giving up hope sooner than everyone else? Everybody genuflect appropriately to the king of being right on a message board! Nobody better change their opinions based on more events happening, either!

Appreciate the sense of urgency in this thread and wish more folks shared it. It’s clear a large percentage of the fan base, likely the same who make Kaplan feel like a funeral home, are too worried about being polite to authority figures to address what is going on. Likely the most talented roster in W&M history was destroyed overnight by an administrative decision. The decision also cost the school 1.5 million dollars. It makes me sick to my stomach every time I think about it. The program has been set back at least 5 years.

Shame on all the folks ‘ready to move on’. Our program will never be good if that is the attitude of the customers following such insane incompetence. Huge should be fired if we don’t make the NCAAT in 2020(lol) and I hope the arena is empty until she’s gone.

Tony Shaver is a brilliant basketball mind and he recruited above what our program history and facilities warranted for the last decade at least. He’s an even better man and will be missed by our program every single day for a long time.

PS - to all the folks who said ‘this was the right time to fire Shaver while the roster is stacked’ in the immediate aftermath, you deserve to have your driver’s license revoked and simple machines like hair dryers and keurigs removed from your home. Please, for the sake of all the folks in Williamsburg with an ounce of sense, don’t let your broken brain harm the people around you.

(05-19-2019 01:52 PM)Kaplankrazies Wrote:  Appreciate the sense of urgency in this thread and wish more folks shared it. It’s clear a large percentage of the fan base, likely the same who make Kaplan feel like a funeral home, are too worried about being polite to authority figures to address what is going on. Likely the most talented roster in W&M history was destroyed overnight by an administrative decision. The decision also cost the school 1.5 million dollars. It makes me sick to my stomach every time I think about it. The program has been set back at least 5 years.

Shame on all the folks ‘ready to move on’. Our program will never be good if that is the attitude of the customers following such insane incompetence. Huge should be fired if we don’t make the NCAAT in 2020(lol) and I hope the arena is empty until she’s gone.

Tony Shaver is a brilliant basketball mind and he recruited above what our program history and facilities warranted for the last decade at least. He’s an even better man and will be missed by our program every single day for a long time.

PS - to all the folks who said ‘this was the right time to fire Shaver while the roster is stacked’ in the immediate aftermath, you deserve to have your driver’s license revoked and simple machines like hair dryers and keurigs removed from your home. Please, for the sake of all the folks in Williamsburg with an ounce of sense, don’t let your broken brain harm the people around you.

Wow, blast from the past! Welcome back!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I suppose venting the same thing over and over via countless threads is cathartic. Vent away if it makes you feel better. Nobody that I'm aware of is jumping for joy or happy Shaver was fired. I know a couple posters that weren't necessarily for the firing, but thought it justifiable. I liked Shaver and was shocked we let him go. I am 100% in the time to move along crowd. That doesn't mean that you forget what has happened, but dwelling in the past doesn't help W&M or support the current student athletes. That's where my concern lies. The former coaches will be just fine. Any perceived wrongs done by Huge will become apparent and hopefully be answered for in its due time. Now isn't the appropriate time. Sorry.

mrjoolius +1

Well said.

(05-19-2019 03:01 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  The former coaches will be just fine.

You can’t truly believe that in your heart of hearts. None of them will ever forget what was done to them, nor will any of them truly get over it.

That is what all of you “move along” people do not fathom.

What was done to them was done by two people. It was shameful. It was not the W&M way. It was not the Christian way. I will never view those two people the same again.

I was not, am not, nor ever will be associated with that action ... aside from being an alum.

So stop telling me to move along. Not happening!

—————————————————

The firing of Tony Shaver- the shame of William and Mary

And another thing ... :-)

If I’m Dane, or the parent of a recruit, and want to understand the mentality of the W&M fan base before going all in, this is what I’ve seen:

Group One- a disinterested student body

Group Two- the move along crowd

Group Three- the fit to be tied crowd who abhor what happened, but have the ability to voice “never forget”, continue to point the spotlight at the “problem”, and support those folks who have inherited a mess not of their doing.

Group Four- the Administration supporters

Which group do Dane and recruits’ parents want to stand shoulder to shoulder with, and go to war with?

Which group will be there through thick and thin?

And when another coach gets fired, and programs start to get cut, and funding dries up, are we going to continue to move along until everything is burned down? At what point is enough enough?

For some, we’re beyond that point. For me, I’m at the point ... when another coach is canned, or swimming/gymnastics is dropped ... that will be it for me ... and we’re all on notice.

———————————————

The firing of Tony Shaver- the shame of William and Mary

(05-19-2019 06:20 PM)nj alum Wrote:  And another thing ... :-)

If I’m Dane, or the parent of a recruit, and want to understand the mentality of the W&M fan base before going all in, this is what I’ve seen:

Group One- a disinterested student body

Group Two- the move along crowd

Group Three- the fit to be tied crowd who abhor what happened, but have the ability to voice “never forget”, continue to point the spotlight at the “problem”, and support those folks who have inherited a mess not of their doing.

Group Four- the Administration supporters

Which group do Dane and recruits’ parents want to stand shoulder to shoulder with, and go to war with?

Which group will be there through thick and thin?

And when another coach gets fired, and programs start to get cut, and funding dries up, are we going to continue to move along until everything is burned down? At what point is enough enough?

For some, we’re beyond that point. For me, I’m at the point ... when another coach is canned, or swimming/gymnastics is dropped ... that will be it for me ... and we’re all on notice.

———————————————

The firing of Tony Shaver- the shame of William and Mary

I think I'd add that a lot of your "move along crowd" also fall within group three. It's perfectly fine to be outraged by the handling of the program, voice your displeasure, and then decide to put complete support behind the basketball program. The never forget mindset allows the program to never move on. Much of the move along crowd are just further along in the grieving process.
Dane is in the unenviable position this season that if he wins, it's because of Shaver's talent. If he does poorly, you can pick a reason - not ready to be a HC, poor coaching, couldn't retain talent.
I don't think I've seen any of your administration supporters group from the fans. You have administration haters that have passed judgement and people that think it's too soon to tell. The latter I wouldn't necessarily call supporters.

“It's perfectly fine to be outraged by the handling of the program, voice your displeasure, and then decide to put complete support behind the basketball program.”-mrjoolius.

No, it’s not. That statement fundamentally defies reason. Yep, Huge absolutely eviscerated the basketball program in one fell swoop; but my goodness people that’s nothing to raise a fuss over. Clearly this was a well thought out and calculated move. I mean, we landed a George Mason assistant with no head coaching experience as our new coach! You know, a real mover and shaker in the college basketball coaching/recruiting world. I’m not begrudging Dane in the least. He had an opportunity to advance his career and took it. He’s surely a fine young man. No question. But, I’ll create a new group that I think NJ Alum and KaplanKrazies will subscribe to. It’s called Group Paine. A group that strives for common sense and the ouster of a misguided, ineffectual leader that we would all be much better without.

“It's perfectly fine to be outraged by the handling of the program, voice your displeasure, and then decide to put complete support behind the basketball program.”-mrjoolius.

No, it’s not. That statement fundamentally defies reason. Yep, Huge absolutely eviscerated the basketball program in one fell swoop; but my goodness people that’s nothing to raise a fuss over. Clearly this was a well thought out and calculated move. I mean, we landed a George Mason assistant with no head coaching experience as our new coach! You know, a real mover and shaker in the college basketball coaching/recruiting world. I’m not begrudging Dane in the least. He had an opportunity to advance his career and took it. He’s surely a fine young man. No question. But, I’ll create a new group that I think NJ Alum and KaplanKrazies will subscribe to. It’s called Group Paine. A group that strives for common sense and the ouster of a misguided, ineffectual leader that we would all be much better without.

Group 12: Stockholm Syndrome

Just kidding. Everyone, please have an awesome Monday.




Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

A decision was made by the AD. Most didn't like the move to fire Shaver and many scratched there head on the decision to hire Fischer. This displeasure is well documented. Some of you don't like the term move along, but how do you get past what's happened? Is the answer to just indefinitely rage? Will it take Samantha Huge being burned at the stake in front of the Hall for you to be a fan again? I'm sorry, I just can't hate and outrage indefinitely. It's not a place I want to occupy. I choose to move forward. I am an alum and former member of the basketball program. I absolutely want what is best for the program and the current student athletes. The best way for that to happen is try to get back to some normalcy. I may not agree with the AD. But, just because I don't approve or get a move she does, its her move to make. She is doing what she thinks is necessary to advance the program. I respect that she has a job to do. She has difficult decisions that she has to make. Decisions that not all of the assistant AD's on the message board are going to like. If she chose poorly or miscalculated, she absolutely should be judged and held accountable. I expect her to be and believe she will.
The debate should be what is a reasonable amount of time to judge Huge's decisions? What is a reasonable enough time to expect London/Fischer to reach Laycock/Shaver levels?

I think a lot of people want Huge removed as AD. Her handling of the Shaver situation was completely botched. That's a fact. People don't want to move along until she's gone.

I think you need to separate the basketball program from Huge when you talk about moving along. There's a difference between wanting to support the basketball program and wanting to support Huge.

(05-20-2019 05:38 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I think a lot of people want Huge removed as AD. Her handling of the Shaver situation was completely botched. That's a fact. People don't want to move along until she's gone.

I think you need to separate the basketball program from Huge when you talk about moving along. There's a difference between wanting to support the basketball program and wanting to support Huge.

Fair enough. I just don't think I can handle new fire Huge threads after every single basketball loss or thing that doesn't go our programs way.

Well maybe she will do something else really stupid before the season starts and get canned. I'll give odds close to 100% that she's not getting fired. She will find some big donor and Rowe will just continue to support her.

I also will not move on.

You may recall that I was one who consistently said -- don't hang her yet. Let's see how it plays out. I pleaded for calm and reason.

And then we paid $1.5 million to lose half our team and the most successful coach we've ever had just so we could hire an assistant coach with no HC experience from George Mason.....

But I also have said that many times (maybe because I hope the next time it will somehow make sense) and have asked those of us as angry as me to try not to be so so repetitive, so....

I will flip the script a bit on the "just move on" crowd. I think it is perfectly fine to support Coach Fischer (see my thread where I lauded him for getting 2 good recruits in the midst of the horrible position Huge put him in) and consistently beat the drum for her to go.

#nomovingon

That is where I am as well. I hold no ill will to the current staff and to the student athletes. The problem is that anything resembling support enables the current administration on these issues. It is possible that you MIGHT get a slightly different response if people felt like there was a lesson learned, some contrition or humility, or anything resembling an apology. But, that is 100% not going to happen. So, then each person has to decide if they can support the athletic programs or the school while under this leadership. It is not a great place to be and a far cry from where we were not that long ago. I won't criticize any of you that are in the move on camp based on a desire to support the experiences of the athletes.
Admittedly, now that more things are known, I am even less happy about it than I was on March 13th. I also think that much of the administration does not care as they must have significant financial backing from either a few large donors or are going to move funds they have already received. I would also say that there are students that are upset. But, they do not care enough to have caused any level of uproar or pause. I also know that a fairly significant percentage of alumni are quite upset as well. Was it enough to cause any uproar or change of course? Apparently not.

But, even those of us who are still outraged still love W&M, its current students, and many of the people who pour their lives into them each day. Not following things next year will be a change for me for the first time since 1987, but it seems to be the only course right now. A large number of people are in the same place.

Finally, I am also in the place that feared Coach Murphy would be fired today if the Tribe had not come back on Saturday. This, in spite of very low initial expectations for the season. Proud of the season the guys had and hope they continue to battle on Wednesday with the same spirit and effort they have shown.

I will root as hard for our players and coaches next year as I have in the past. The AD has never entered my mind as a fan before, and won’t now. My love for our MBB program is about the players, coaches, and the name on the front of the jersey. I don’t like the decision our AD made. I trust she will he held accountable based on our W-L record and postseason success (which is why she said she made the change). Me not rooting for the team next year is not a way to hold her accountable.

If all of this makes me part of the move on crowd, so be it.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think it’s much less a divide of supposed “move on Huge backers” versus Huge detractors, than a situation in which nearly everyone is in virtually the same place on this, except for a select few demand that every single thread and post on this board contain a diatribe against Huge, otherwise that poster is a “Shaver-hating, Huge lover” (I think that exact phrase has even been used). I think pretty much everyone on here agrees that firing Shaver was a mistake and shouldn’t have happened. But there are a few select posters (it’s not many thankfully, but they are some of the most frequent posters) who get very angry and like to pick fights with any post that attempts to discuss the basketball team as it is without blasting Huge. And those posters have invented mythical “Huge lovers” who are supposedly thrilled Shaver was fired – when in reality those people just don’t exist (but I guess these folks need something to feel righteous about on this board, which doesn’t work when everyone is in agreement).

It’s actually kind of entertaining that they are basically equivalent to the “SJW” college students they also like to rant against, who basically employ the exact same methods (invent an evil caricature of an enemy to feel morally superior to, then get angry at anyone who doesn’t acknowledge their purity and holiness at every opportunity).

So it would be nice if everyone could jointly acknowledge that we pretty much all feel the same way about this and have all read the arguments 50 times, thus it’s ok to have some actual basketball discussion from time to time. Talking about the basketball team without ranting against Huge isn’t a betrayal of Tony Shaver, nor is it a statement that you wholeheartedly endorse all of Huge’s decisions…