(05-20-2019 09:50 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  I think it’s much less a divide of supposed “move on Huge backers” versus Huge detractors, than a situation in which nearly everyone is in virtually the same place on this, except for a select few demand that every single thread and post on this board contain a diatribe against Huge, otherwise that poster is a “Shaver-hating, Huge lover” (I think that exact phrase has even been used). I think pretty much everyone on here agrees that firing Shaver was a mistake and shouldn’t have happened. But there are a few select posters (it’s not many thankfully, but they are some of the most frequent posters) who get very angry and like to pick fights with any post that attempts to discuss the basketball team as it is without blasting Huge. And those posters have invented mythical “Huge lovers” who are supposedly thrilled Shaver was fired – when in reality those people just don’t exist (but I guess these folks need something to feel righteous about on this board, which doesn’t work when everyone is in agreement).

It’s actually kind of entertaining that they are basically equivalent to the “SJW” college students they also like to rant against, who basically employ the exact same methods (invent an evil caricature of an enemy to feel morally superior to, then get angry at anyone who doesn’t acknowledge their purity and holiness at every opportunity).

So it would be nice if everyone could jointly acknowledge that we pretty much all feel the same way about this and have all read the arguments 50 times, thus it’s ok to have some actual basketball discussion from time to time. Talking about the basketball team without ranting against Huge isn’t a betrayal of Tony Shaver, nor is it a statement that you wholeheartedly endorse all of Huge’s decisions…

Tribe 2011 - I think you and I actually are in the same camp, although I don't share your instincts to demonize those who keep noting their anger with Huge. In fact, I think your comments will just cause people to rant against Huge even more angrily and more often.

I do think that we can (and will) have discussions about the basketball team without bringing up Huge's disastrous mistake. I started one thread to do just that. I also hope most of my discussions going forward will be about the team without mentioning Huge. But stop trying to impose a moratorium on criticisms of Huge.

Those who demand that no one ever bring Huge up again are just as petulant as those who continue to bring it up every chance they get. So, I suggest we stop calling each other names and - when someone says "move on" or "fire Huge," ignore them if those comments are annoying, and just keep saying what we'd say anyway.

(05-20-2019 09:31 AM)ColonelEbirt Wrote:  I will root as hard for our players and coaches next year as I have in the past. The AD has never entered my mind as a fan before, and won’t now. My love for our MBB program is about the players, coaches, and the name on the front of the jersey. I don’t like the decision our AD made. I trust she will he held accountable based on our W-L record and postseason success (which is why she said she made the change). Me not rooting for the team next year is not a way to hold her accountable.

If all of this makes me part of the move on crowd, so be it.

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The difference is subtle but significant:
I will root as hard for our players and coaches next year as I have in the past. My love for our MBB program is about the players, coaches, and the name on the front of the jersey. I don’t like the decision our AD made. I do not think she has been or will be held accountable. Me not rooting for the team next year is not a way to hold her accountable.
If all of this makes me part of the unable to move on crowd, so be it.

Ebirt don't drape yourself in the green and gold flag and say that others can't bleed green and gold as well and still take issue with the decision, with the decisionmakers, and discuss it.

This thread is called "It's Just Laughable" and it really is laughable that people who want all to "move on" keep replying. This was a deep self-inflicted wound on W&M athletics, not just the basketball program. When the team tips off in October we'll have something else to "move on" to. Right now its just devastation and you can all paint it roses if you want but truth is truth.

(05-20-2019 09:19 AM)TribePride91 Wrote:  That is where I am as well. I hold no ill will to the current staff and to the student athletes. The problem is that anything resembling support enables the current administration on these issues. It is possible that you MIGHT get a slightly different response if people felt like there was a lesson learned, some contrition or humility, or anything resembling an apology. But, that is 100% not going to happen. So, then each person has to decide if they can support the athletic programs or the school while under this leadership. It is not a great place to be and a far cry from where we were not that long ago. I won't criticize any of you that are in the move on camp based on a desire to support the experiences of the athletes.
Admittedly, now that more things are known, I am even less happy about it than I was on March 13th. I also think that much of the administration does not care as they must have significant financial backing from either a few large donors or are going to move funds they have already received. I would also say that there are students that are upset. But, they do not care enough to have caused any level of uproar or pause. I also know that a fairly significant percentage of alumni are quite upset as well. Was it enough to cause any uproar or change of course? Apparently not.

But, even those of us who are still outraged still love W&M, its current students, and many of the people who pour their lives into them each day. Not following things next year will be a change for me for the first time since 1987, but it seems to be the only course right now. A large number of people are in the same place.

Finally, I am also in the place that feared Coach Murphy would be fired today if the Tribe had not come back on Saturday. This, in spite of very low initial expectations for the season. Proud of the season the guys had and hope they continue to battle on Wednesday with the same spirit and effort they have shown.

I wonder if the people in this camp, saying they won't follow the program any longer because of their anger towards Huge, will maintain this attitude regardless of the success of the basketball program. For example, if the team does well next year or the year after that are you honestly not going to follow the team at all? I find this hard to believe. Not following the team isn't going to change things. All that's going to matter is the success of the basketball and football programs. If they don't do well for a certain period of time, Huge will be gone eventually. I don't think anyone will admit it, but some of the posts seem to be very close to rooting for these programs, especially basketball, to be unsuccessful so the poster can say "I told you so" and that Huge will be fired.

I disagree ... those of us that vehemently will not bend the knee to this decision are acutely aware that Dane has inherited a dumpster fire started solely by two people.

If Dane is unable to put out the dumpster fire, and is fired, we’re going into nuclear winter. None of us wants that because ... we’ve been through it before, and we needed a quality man and coach to spend 16 years getting it right.

Those who don’t study history ...

(05-20-2019 11:12 AM)nj alum Wrote:  I disagree ... those of us that vehemently will not bend the knee...

Kind of poor timing on my image if you are a GoT watcher.

LOL!

I’ve never watched a single episode!

(05-20-2019 10:15 AM)Marshall Wythe Wrote:  

(05-20-2019 09:50 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  I think it’s much less a divide of supposed “move on Huge backers” versus Huge detractors, than a situation in which nearly everyone is in virtually the same place on this, except for a select few demand that every single thread and post on this board contain a diatribe against Huge, otherwise that poster is a “Shaver-hating, Huge lover” (I think that exact phrase has even been used). I think pretty much everyone on here agrees that firing Shaver was a mistake and shouldn’t have happened. But there are a few select posters (it’s not many thankfully, but they are some of the most frequent posters) who get very angry and like to pick fights with any post that attempts to discuss the basketball team as it is without blasting Huge. And those posters have invented mythical “Huge lovers” who are supposedly thrilled Shaver was fired – when in reality those people just don’t exist (but I guess these folks need something to feel righteous about on this board, which doesn’t work when everyone is in agreement).

It’s actually kind of entertaining that they are basically equivalent to the “SJW” college students they also like to rant against, who basically employ the exact same methods (invent an evil caricature of an enemy to feel morally superior to, then get angry at anyone who doesn’t acknowledge their purity and holiness at every opportunity).

So it would be nice if everyone could jointly acknowledge that we pretty much all feel the same way about this and have all read the arguments 50 times, thus it’s ok to have some actual basketball discussion from time to time. Talking about the basketball team without ranting against Huge isn’t a betrayal of Tony Shaver, nor is it a statement that you wholeheartedly endorse all of Huge’s decisions…

Tribe 2011 - I think you and I actually are in the same camp, although I don't share your instincts to demonize those who keep noting their anger with Huge. In fact, I think your comments will just cause people to rant against Huge even more angrily and more often.

I do think that we can (and will) have discussions about the basketball team without bringing up Huge's disastrous mistake. I started one thread to do just that. I also hope most of my discussions going forward will be about the team without mentioning Huge. But stop trying to impose a moratorium on criticisms of Huge.

Those who demand that no one ever bring Huge up again are just as petulant as those who continue to bring it up every chance they get. So, I suggest we stop calling each other names and - when someone says "move on" or "fire Huge," ignore them if those comments are annoying, and just keep saying what we'd say anyway.

This response nicely illustrates my point! My request to "have some basketball discussion from time to time" is twisted into "trying to impose a moratorium on criticisms of Huge." Anything to give the angry posters a righteous evil to rail against, regardless of whether it exists...

A nice start would be to stop telling angry people to not be angry whilst attacking them for being angry. In nearly 48 years on this earth, I've yet to see that as a successful approach. Try telling a loud person, "Hey, keep it down," and watch his or her response.

If you don't like someone's post, ignore it or even block the poster. Or, respond to it and risk throwing gas on the situation.

A few posts back, a poster wrote a chapter loaded with nothing but blasting comments about anyone who thinks differently. I ignored it and I feel good about that decision. As much as I disagree with just about everything he or she writes, he or she has a right to do so so long as he or she doesn't violate the site AUP. I'm not sure this poster has ever added to a discussion...nothing more than criticism and tantrums. Welcome to fan forums.

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(05-20-2019 10:37 AM)Old tribe Wrote:  

(05-20-2019 09:19 AM)TribePride91 Wrote:  That is where I am as well. I hold no ill will to the current staff and to the student athletes. The problem is that anything resembling support enables the current administration on these issues. It is possible that you MIGHT get a slightly different response if people felt like there was a lesson learned, some contrition or humility, or anything resembling an apology. But, that is 100% not going to happen. So, then each person has to decide if they can support the athletic programs or the school while under this leadership. It is not a great place to be and a far cry from where we were not that long ago. I won't criticize any of you that are in the move on camp based on a desire to support the experiences of the athletes.
Admittedly, now that more things are known, I am even less happy about it than I was on March 13th. I also think that much of the administration does not care as they must have significant financial backing from either a few large donors or are going to move funds they have already received. I would also say that there are students that are upset. But, they do not care enough to have caused any level of uproar or pause. I also know that a fairly significant percentage of alumni are quite upset as well. Was it enough to cause any uproar or change of course? Apparently not.

But, even those of us who are still outraged still love W&M, its current students, and many of the people who pour their lives into them each day. Not following things next year will be a change for me for the first time since 1987, but it seems to be the only course right now. A large number of people are in the same place.

Finally, I am also in the place that feared Coach Murphy would be fired today if the Tribe had not come back on Saturday. This, in spite of very low initial expectations for the season. Proud of the season the guys had and hope they continue to battle on Wednesday with the same spirit and effort they have shown.

I wonder if the people in this camp, saying they won't follow the program any longer because of their anger towards Huge, will maintain this attitude regardless of the success of the basketball program. For example, if the team does well next year or the year after that are you honestly not going to follow the team at all? I find this hard to believe. Not following the team isn't going to change things. All that's going to matter is the success of the basketball and football programs. If they don't do well for a certain period of time, Huge will be gone eventually. I don't think anyone will admit it, but some of the posts seem to be very close to rooting for these programs, especially basketball, to be unsuccessful so the poster can say "I told you so" and that Huge will be fired.

I totally respect this post. I am not rooting for the program to fail, nor will I say I told you so if we happen to struggle. I can understand your doubt about my willingness to not follow the team. Perhaps you will be proven correct for many of us, maybe even for me. It certainly will be hard since I have spent more years rooting for my school and its students than not. For me, it is simply any attention to the team in 2019-2020 will be a reminder of what could have and should have been. As for your comments on Ms. Huge, I don't think she will be gone no matter what results occur unless she chooses to go. I already posted 2 months ago that if the Tribe cuts down the nets or even has a solid finish next season, I will congratulate those of you here who are excited and praise Dane for his efforts. But, it is not a few people that are disappointed and unable to move on. I also apologize if some of you are tired of us being upset. My going away for at least 1 year will stop one of us from annoying you. I honestly admire those of you who are trying to find a way to emotionally and financially support the teams and students without supporting the current administration. Looking forward to the baseball tournament as kind of a swan song for a time.

(05-20-2019 11:37 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  

(05-20-2019 10:15 AM)Marshall Wythe Wrote:  

(05-20-2019 09:50 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  I think it’s much less a divide of supposed “move on Huge backers” versus Huge detractors, than a situation in which nearly everyone is in virtually the same place on this, except for a select few demand that every single thread and post on this board contain a diatribe against Huge, otherwise that poster is a “Shaver-hating, Huge lover” (I think that exact phrase has even been used). I think pretty much everyone on here agrees that firing Shaver was a mistake and shouldn’t have happened. But there are a few select posters (it’s not many thankfully, but they are some of the most frequent posters) who get very angry and like to pick fights with any post that attempts to discuss the basketball team as it is without blasting Huge. And those posters have invented mythical “Huge lovers” who are supposedly thrilled Shaver was fired – when in reality those people just don’t exist (but I guess these folks need something to feel righteous about on this board, which doesn’t work when everyone is in agreement).

It’s actually kind of entertaining that they are basically equivalent to the “SJW” college students they also like to rant against, who basically employ the exact same methods (invent an evil caricature of an enemy to feel morally superior to, then get angry at anyone who doesn’t acknowledge their purity and holiness at every opportunity).

So it would be nice if everyone could jointly acknowledge that we pretty much all feel the same way about this and have all read the arguments 50 times, thus it’s ok to have some actual basketball discussion from time to time. Talking about the basketball team without ranting against Huge isn’t a betrayal of Tony Shaver, nor is it a statement that you wholeheartedly endorse all of Huge’s decisions…

Tribe 2011 - I think you and I actually are in the same camp, although I don't share your instincts to demonize those who keep noting their anger with Huge. In fact, I think your comments will just cause people to rant against Huge even more angrily and more often.

I do think that we can (and will) have discussions about the basketball team without bringing up Huge's disastrous mistake. I started one thread to do just that. I also hope most of my discussions going forward will be about the team without mentioning Huge. But stop trying to impose a moratorium on criticisms of Huge.

Those who demand that no one ever bring Huge up again are just as petulant as those who continue to bring it up every chance they get. So, I suggest we stop calling each other names and - when someone says "move on" or "fire Huge," ignore them if those comments are annoying, and just keep saying what we'd say anyway.

This response nicely illustrates my point! My request to "have some basketball discussion from time to time" is twisted into "trying to impose a moratorium on criticisms of Huge." Anything to give the angry posters a righteous evil to rail against, regardless of whether it exists...

When you say that people like me get "angry at anyone who doesn’t acknowledge their purity and holiness at every opportunity," then you lose the privilege of crying foul when someone hyperbolizes your comments. You and I actually pretty much agree. Just stop calling me an SJW who invents evil caricatures. Relax.

I'm embarrassed that I had to Google what an SJW was.
Single Jewish Woman perhaps? Lol

(05-20-2019 12:32 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  I'm embarrassed that I had to Google what an SJW was.
Single Jewish Woman perhaps? Lol

i hope not because that would be sexist.

This is just a guess, but a certain degree of malaise will likely fall on the Mens hoops program, which is a real shame, because I remember the Boyages era, and how awful that was, they used to feed the students at WM Hall just to get bodies in seats for at least part of a game.
It is really a shame, not exactly sure what the point was in all of this, makes no sense.

(05-20-2019 07:43 PM)Paulbintheburg Wrote:  This is just a guess, but a certain degree of malaise will likely fall on the Mens hoops program, which is a real shame, because I remember the Boyages era, and how awful that was, they used to feed the students at WM Hall just to get bodies in seats for at least part of a game.
It is really a shame, not exactly sure what the point was in all of this, makes no sense.

Tbf, they still do that now

I don't care what you guys say. This thread is more entertaining than cable. I share it with friends and loved ones.

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(05-20-2019 07:57 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(05-20-2019 07:43 PM)Paulbintheburg Wrote:  This is just a guess, but a certain degree of malaise will likely fall on the Mens hoops program, which is a real shame, because I remember the Boyages era, and how awful that was, they used to feed the students at WM Hall just to get bodies in seats for at least part of a game.
It is really a shame, not exactly sure what the point was in all of this, makes no sense.

Tbf, they still do that now

Sometimes I wonder why the school even has athletic teams, the lack of interest from the student body unless ESPN is rolling into town is absurd, then all of a sudden its "Hey I am a student and can't get a ticket to see my school play, can you please help?" (talking to you WM student body circa 2004)

Given the thread title, I thought this might fit here as well as anywhere.

Jeopardy Champ Quits, Announces Gift

CULVER CITY, Calif. (UPI) -- Reigning Jeopardy! champion James Holzhauer stunned the game show world Monday, announcing that he was quitting the show after reaching just over $1.7 million in prize money. Holzhauer said he was donating all his winnings to a small college in Virginia.

"I really hate game shows," said Holzhauer. "I would never have played at all, except that word went out through our family that Aunt Samantha needed $1.7 million really, really bad. This was the only way I could think of to raise that much money fast."

It was not immediately clear who the mysterious Aunt Samantha might be or why she would need $1.7 million, except that Holzhauer said she was affiliated in some way with the College of William & Mary, a small school in Williamsburg, Va.

College switchboard operator Edna Taliaferro was unable to identify her further. "Are you crazy?" she told a reporter. "Do you know how many Samanthas we have here?"

(05-21-2019 08:01 AM)Blow Gym rat Wrote:  Given the thread title, I thought this might fit here as well as anywhere.

Jeopardy Champ Quits, Announces Gift

CULVER CITY, Calif. (UPI) -- Reigning Jeopardy! champion James Holzhauer stunned the game show world Monday, announcing that he was quitting the show after reaching just over $1.7 million in prize money. Holzhauer said he was donating all his winnings to a small college in Virginia.

"I really hate game shows," said Holzhauer. "I would never have played at all, except that word went out through our family that Aunt Samantha needed $1.7 million really, really bad. This was the only way I could think of to raise that much money fast."

It was not immediately clear who the mysterious Aunt Samantha might be or why she would need $1.7 million, except that Holzhauer said she was affiliated in some way with the College of William & Mary, a small school in Williamsburg, Va.

College switchboard operator Edna Taliaferro was unable to identify her further. "Are you crazy?" she told a reporter. "Do you know how many Samanthas we have here?"

FUNNY stuff!!

How can Rowe condone/approve of these rolling controversies that seem to now constantly engulf this AD? You would think given our history/alumni base that this is something easily solved. I honestly don’t know how we’ve arrived at this point.

If I'm tired and have trouble falling asleep I read this thread and am asleep in five minutes.