(03-11-2019 08:10 AM)WM_Destro Wrote:  Paul Rowley (475 pts) finishes his career at #116. Salute to the judge.

I believe Paul also graduates as the 2nd or 3rd best 3 point shooter in school history by percentage. More than just a law degree and a smiling face, Paul was a hell of a player.

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Paul might have been a much better player for us if he would have done a little more work to bulk up and stay out of the training room. His style of play fit Shaver's offense really well. He may end up being one of the most famous alumnus who ever played basketball for us, just not in the basketball field. Having that kind of work ethic combined with smarts is something very few people have in this world. I think he may take advantage of it.

(03-11-2019 11:04 AM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(03-11-2019 08:10 AM)WM_Destro Wrote:  Paul Rowley (475 pts) finishes his career at #116. Salute to the judge.

I believe Paul also graduates as the 2nd or 3rd best 3 point shooter in school history by percentage. More than just a law degree and a smiling face, Paul was a hell of a player.

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Yes, third, just behind Milon and of course NCAA record-holder Burchfield.

(03-11-2019 08:34 AM)ColonelEbirt Wrote:  Van Vliet wasn’t on the bench for any road trips this year (from what I recall) ... should the tournament be any different? I just assumed non-eligibles didn’t travel with the team.


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This is correct. He didn’t travel to any games.

Don't have a lot to add here, but the faces in the last post on the Pep Band's Facebook page say it all. https://www.facebook.com/WMPepBand/posts...7344261202

(03-11-2019 08:08 AM)Tribester Wrote:  Since 2008, only four D-1 coaches in America have never made the dance since they were hired and are still employed by that same institution. They are

2003 - Shaver W&M
2005 - Radebaugh Charleston Southern
2005 - Broadnax Savannah State
2006 - Herrion New Hampshire

That’s the whole list. Everyone else moved on. It is not radical to suggest moving on. The radical move on the contrary is to stand pat.

If London fails to make the playoffs for the next sixteen years, I wonder if he will also still have a job at W&M because he too is a nice guy?

I was a season ticket holder during the Boyarges years, and early Shaver years, the hoops program was so bad, we used to have PG's who couldn't hit free throws if you had them shoot from 3 feet. Big men, who wanted to take 12 footers, it was a dysfunctional s**tshow.

At the very least he has brought a level of respectability and the idea that winning the CAA is more than fantasy, so grouping him on that list is not entirely being forthright when you consider everything.

(03-11-2019 08:49 AM)ColonelEbirt Wrote:  Two of Knight's 3-pointers were end of half/game heaves, so those don't really count. So in truth, he was 1 for 2 on his 'real' attempts.

On to next year. Thanks for a fun season fellas, keep your heads up, stay together, stay hungry, and see you back on the court in the Fall.

Great post - first one (that I remember) that actually thanked the team (or Tony). For me, thanks guys for another year in which I had actual hope (if not expectation) for a CAA championship and Dance invitation.

Re Knight: he actually shot 5 three-pointers. The one right before the half didn't count because it was the last action and I have noticed that they don't count those (unless it goes in). The one at the end of the game counted because it was rebounded and there was still some tenths of seconds on the clock. He shot another one in desperation right before the shot clock expired. So, as you say, he was 1 for 2 on 'real' attempts. I am not usually a fan of his three-pointers but he was wide open for them and he did hit one. His late misses from close in were more costly.

(03-11-2019 11:04 AM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(03-11-2019 08:10 AM)WM_Destro Wrote:  Paul Rowley (475 pts) finishes his career at #116. Salute to the judge.

I believe Paul also graduates as the 2nd or 3rd best 3 point shooter in school history by percentage. More than just a law degree and a smiling face, Paul was a hell of a player.

Yes, kudos to Paul for a great career and for earning the Dean Ehlers Leadership award!

Having said that, I must say that Paul drove me crazy the last third (or more) of the year. He kept catching the ball, doing a pump fake, and then passing it. I kept yelling for him to just shoot it as soon as he caught it. He did shoot it quickly just once yesterday -- and he made that shot. I wished he had done it more often but, for whatever reason, he just lost his confidence this year. A killer shooter needs to have no conscience and no memory of past failures.

Credit to Justin Pierce because, for all the times this year he penetrated and made bad decisions and was over aggressive, at least he was willing to shoot it. This team desperately needs all five players on the court to have that mentality and not just two. (Similarly, LJ Owens took two treys at crunch time yesterday -- but at least he was shooting and not just aimlessly passing it around the perimeter burning time).

As was pointed out before, our offense is predicated on taking and making threes. One of our main issues this year is we didn’t have our normal complement of shooters. Shaver stuck with Rowley long after it was apparent that Rowley had given up on his outside shooting. Did Shaver stick with him due to the lack of other options, trying to reward a senior or the fact that Rowley was being marketed as the face of the program? I don’t know. It didn’t work whatever the reasoning was.

We have to shoot better next year and that means some consistent shooters from the three other than Milon.

(03-11-2019 05:39 PM)tribeinexile Wrote:  As was pointed out before, our offense is predicated on taking and making threes. One of our main issues this year is we didn’t have our normal complement of shooters. Shaver stuck with Rowley long after it was apparent that Rowley had given up on his outside shooting. Did Shaver stick with him due to the lack of other options, trying to reward a senior or the fact that Rowley was being marketed as the face of the program? I don’t know. It didn’t work whatever the reasoning was.

We have to shoot better next year and that means some consistent shooters from the three other than Milon.

We played Rowley because we had no other shooters that at least somewhat understand the system on offense and defense. Really didn't understand why Harvey didn't spell Knight when he would come out for rest - it seemed like every time Knight came out, other teams went on runs and scored at will at the rim because we had no rim protector.

Curious to see what our starting lineup is next season. I'd almost go Loewe, Milon, Pierce, Knight, Van Vliet and utilize Audige being in the game when Knight is out (still want Audige to get 25-30 minutes). This lineup also allows for picks from 2 players, since Knight can pick/roll or slip screen and Van Vliet can presumably pick/roll, slip screen, or pick/pop.

(03-11-2019 06:54 PM)WMtribe17 Wrote:  

(03-11-2019 05:39 PM)tribeinexile Wrote:  As was pointed out before, our offense is predicated on taking and making threes. One of our main issues this year is we didn’t have our normal complement of shooters. Shaver stuck with Rowley long after it was apparent that Rowley had given up on his outside shooting. Did Shaver stick with him due to the lack of other options, trying to reward a senior or the fact that Rowley was being marketed as the face of the program? I don’t know. It didn’t work whatever the reasoning was.

We have to shoot better next year and that means some consistent shooters from the three other than Milon.

We played Rowley because we had no other shooters that at least somewhat understand the system on offense and defense. Really didn't understand why Harvey didn't spell Knight when he would come out for rest - it seemed like every time Knight came out, other teams went on runs and scored at will at the rim because we had no rim protector.

Curious to see what our starting lineup is next season. I'd almost go Loewe, Milon, Pierce, Knight, Van Vliet and utilize Audige being in the game when Knight is out (still want Audige to get 25-30 minutes). This lineup also allows for picks from 2 players, since Knight can pick/roll or slip screen and Van Vliet can presumably pick/roll, slip screen, or pick/pop.

I really agree that we shoulda played Harvey more down the stretch ... needed his D.

I think Chase has to start; he sets the tone defensively and does stuff all over the court and will only get better going into next year ... Tony’s rotation will be very interesting next year. I think Cam Brown will push for some minutes on the wing too and could add a lot defensively, and all the other freshman this year will get better too ... a lot of competition and a lot on our coaching staff to play the right combination of players at the right time especially early on if we want to have a shot at a 20 plus win season which I think we should


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Audige is a freshman and it showed here. I expect him to learn from this. Defense travels. It’s an old saw; but true. When the other guys rain down the three jacks, you have to have the ability and willingness to defend. We need that. Strength and conditioning along with a minimum of 250 makes a day will change things.

(03-11-2019 07:29 PM)SoCal Frank Wrote:  Audige is a freshman and it showed here. I expect him to learn from this. Defense travels. It’s an old saw; but true. When the other guys rain down the three jacks, you have to have the ability and willingness to defend. We need that. Strength and conditioning along with a minimum of 250 makes a day will change things.

Ithiel Horton (Delaware) is a freshman and he had two great games at the tournament. Camren Wynter (Drexel) also had a good game. So I don't think Audige's troubles were because he was a freshman --- or because the moment was too big for him or because he got schooled by a superior player --- so the only other explanation is that he was not 100% from last week's injury. Although all that other stuff you mentioned going forward definitely couldn't hurt.

The 1st thing that needs to be figured out before talking about a successful next season is what happened to our free throw shooting? Going from 1st in the conference to next to last was devastating. It lost games this year and let teams back into games that should have been comfortable wins. Reliable, and often fouled shooters like Pierce and Milon were down double digit percentage wise from the previous year. It's not an ability thing, they've done it. I know they practice them. It has to be 100% mental and nerves. I don't know how to get past it, but they need to find a way. It's no coincidence that Hofstra lead the league in FT shooting and has the record they do.

(03-11-2019 08:01 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  The 1st thing that needs to be figured out before talking about a successful next season is what happened to our free throw shooting? Going from 1st in the conference to next to last was devastating. It lost games this year and let teams back into games that should have been comfortable wins. Reliable, and often fouled shooters like Pierce and Milon were down double digit percentage wise from the previous year. It's not an ability thing, they've done it. I know they practice them. It has to be 100% mental and nerves. I don't know how to get past it, but they need to find a way. It's no coincidence that Hofstra lead the league in FT shooting and has the record they do.

Totally agree. Anybody else notice how Pierce went away from his step into it free throw routine and shot with a more normal and confident routine and went 5-5 from the FT line in our QF loss to Drexel? Wonder what happened in the week leading up to the tournament and hope he can carry that in to next year and get back to shooting 75-80% since he will be there a lot.


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I don’t think Pierce’s stroke ever recovered from his wrist injury. That walk-up thing he was doing suggested he couldn’t generate enough strength from his wrist. Fortunately he went away from it on Sunday and seemed to have success. A healthy offseason should help.

(03-11-2019 08:01 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  The 1st thing that needs to be figured out before talking about a successful next season is what happened to our free throw shooting? Going from 1st in the conference to next to last was devastating. It lost games this year and let teams back into games that should have been comfortable wins. Reliable, and often fouled shooters like Pierce and Milon were down double digit percentage wise from the previous year. It's not an ability thing, they've done it. I know they practice them. It has to be 100% mental and nerves. I don't know how to get past it, but they need to find a way. It's no coincidence that Hofstra lead the league in FT shooting and has the record they do.

Cohn and Burchfield in 2018 combined for 4.9 FT attempts/game, and made 90.2% of their FTs (about 4.5/game). Audige, Owens, Scott, Harvey and Blair combined for 5 FT attempts/game, and made 68% of their FTs (3.4 per game). That's a decent chunk of the dropoff right there. That's without even throwing in Loewe being terrible at the line.

Pierce was a 62% as a freshman on a pretty small sample. It's entirely possible last season was the fluke. Milon was a worse shooter all over in 2019.

(03-11-2019 07:49 PM)Zorch Wrote:  

(03-11-2019 07:29 PM)SoCal Frank Wrote:  Audige is a freshman and it showed here. I expect him to learn from this. Defense travels. It’s an old saw; but true. When the other guys rain down the three jacks, you have to have the ability and willingness to defend. We need that. Strength and conditioning along with a minimum of 250 makes a day will change things.

Ithiel Horton (Delaware) is a freshman and he had two great games at the tournament. Camren Wynter (Drexel) also had a good game. So I don't think Audige's troubles were because he was a freshman --- or because the moment was too big for him or because he got schooled by a superior player --- so the only other explanation is that he was not 100% from last week's injury. Although all that other stuff you mentioned going forward definitely couldn't hurt.

Some freshmen are better than others. There lots of variables including getting schooled. I still like Audige. These other things aren’t just stuff that can’t hurt. They’re what players do to get better. That and more; maybe 500 makes a day.

Horrible call by refs with 3 seconds left to put Charleston on the line with a chance to tie


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Ball don’t lie....


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