(02-01-2019 08:24 AM)Pete24 Wrote:  

(01-29-2019 08:36 PM)Rocco Wrote:  

(01-29-2019 03:28 PM)tribeinexile Wrote:  OK. Where’s the money?

We don’t even have the money for a GA. Personally, I thought retaining Harrison this year to help Knight’s low post skills would have been a great idea. (Not interested in a position for Rowley next year.)

Given how underpaid Shaver is, it’s a miracle we’ve retained Holmes.

If you want to hire a Rocco-approved assistant co-head coach you need to pay bucks. I’m not sure firing Holmes to open up that position would open up sufficient salary.

Without increased funding from W&M, and the development of a robust booster club, we’re whistling in the dark. Any assistant coach we could afford would have to be entry-level caliber.

It happens in one of two ways:

1) The hoops program gets more aggressive in shaking down donors and boosters to get the resources it needs, much like football did;
2) Other athletic teams get axed and the resources diverted to hoops.

Ideally it would be 1). It feels like 2) is inevitable.

With regard to point #2 "Other athletic teams get axed and the resources diverted to hoops."

My son is a senior student-athlete in one of the "other" sports you reference. I've come to see first-hand that the alum (and their parents) from these "other" sports are some of the biggest W&M athletic donors. And most successful alum -- who continue to give back to W&M.
And you may not know this, but a few of these "other" sports have actually built their own personal endowments ... some of them well over million dollars. This protects them from being cut. For example, when W&M cut swimming and wrestling back in the 90's, there was a huge amount of financial donations from swimming alum and supporters to keep the program afloat and this fund continues to protect the sport from being cut.

I'm not saying I want it to happen. I'm saying that W&M supports way more athletic programs than similarly situated teams. The recommendation to cut non-revenue programs is coming, and I'm glad they're prepared to make their case why they should stay.

(02-01-2019 08:24 AM)Pete24 Wrote:  

(01-29-2019 08:36 PM)Rocco Wrote:  

(01-29-2019 03:28 PM)tribeinexile Wrote:  OK. Where’s the money?

We don’t even have the money for a GA. Personally, I thought retaining Harrison this year to help Knight’s low post skills would have been a great idea. (Not interested in a position for Rowley next year.)

Given how underpaid Shaver is, it’s a miracle we’ve retained Holmes.

If you want to hire a Rocco-approved assistant co-head coach you need to pay bucks. I’m not sure firing Holmes to open up that position would open up sufficient salary.

Without increased funding from W&M, and the development of a robust booster club, we’re whistling in the dark. Any assistant coach we could afford would have to be entry-level caliber.

It happens in one of two ways:

1) The hoops program gets more aggressive in shaking down donors and boosters to get the resources it needs, much like football did;
2) Other athletic teams get axed and the resources diverted to hoops.

Ideally it would be 1). It feels like 2) is inevitable.

With regard to point #2 "Other athletic teams get axed and the resources diverted to hoops."

My son is a senior student-athlete in one of the "other" sports you reference. I've come to see first-hand that the alum (and their parents) from these "other" sports are some of the biggest W&M athletic donors. And most successful alum -- who continue to give back to W&M.
And you may not know this, but a few of these "other" sports have actually built their own personal endowments ... some of them well over million dollars. This protects them from being cut. For example, when W&M cut swimming and wrestling back in the 90's, there was a huge amount of financial donations from swimming alum and supporters to keep the program afloat and this fund continues to protect the sport from being cut.

Always wondered how gymnastics and swimming stuck around. I've always heard about private donors endowing other sports, makes sense that swimming and gymnastics have big donors too.

Field hockey has a number of solid alum supporters for the oldest women's sport at W&M. Three folks anted up a stunning 1.5 million last fall for a field hockey headquarters building on the Busch Field facility, currently under construction. Will have locker rooms, offices, etc.

We have a terrific field hockey coach who is bringing in very talented players...a program that is already on the way up nationally.

I have always believed, and have stated several times on this board, that non-revenue athletes are the backbone of our student body. If to win in football or basketball requires significant cuts in non-revenue sports, then we need to drop football and basketball to Patriot or lower.

I've always felt that 20 sports are a full house. After that, you are just diluting the product when it comes to funding.

Victoria Gersch broke the school record in the indoor 200m, running 25.05 at Penn State! She now holds the record in the 200m both indoors and outdoors, one of just four W&M women to unify the records in the same event! #gotribe https://t.co/7Qd6iSVFgn

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(02-02-2019 10:39 AM)tribeinexile Wrote:  I have always believed, and have stated several times on this board, that non-revenue athletes are the backbone of our student body. If to win in football or basketball requires significant cuts in non-revenue sports, then we need to drop football and basketball to Patriot or lower.

I agree.

I would also add that the spots occupied by those athletes in the Admission Dept.’s overall student body numbers would not be replaced by similarly-minded individuals, further eroding a major problem at the College ... how many of our current students are going to support intercollegiate athletics as alumni.

A reduction in the number of sports has long range alumni implications.

As a non-athlete alum with a current student at W&M, I think it is more a function of the current mindset of students today. They are definitely encouraged when they arrive on campus to support each other in all of their activities. There are just a lot more potential activities to support than there used to be. When the school makes a concerted effort to encourage the students, they come out as they have for Gold Rush each of the last 5 years. But, gone are the days where the frats and a few sororities came to every game. As for football, if the team is more exciting, more students will come out, at least that is what my student is telling me. She came to every game last year except one where she had an out of town conflict. But, she did say that basketball games have been more fun so far. From my perspective from my time as a student and as an alum, the effort required for the non-revenue sports is very similar in terms of training and time constraints to participate. It takes years of dedication. It just doesn't bring revenue. At many schools, the non-revenue sports are fully funded by either student fees, donations from alums and former players, or football. If the question were only about does a sport turn a profit, W&M might have none. I would expect W&M to keep the non-revenue sports for now. I think we would see troubling signs in other areas before they are likely to be cut. Title 9 virtually ensures that a significant number have to remain unless football is cut at every school. So, they should remain which I think is good for the students, the athletes, and the school overall.

(02-02-2019 10:39 AM)tribeinexile Wrote:  I have always believed, and have stated several times on this board, that non-revenue athletes are the backbone of our student body. If to win in football or basketball requires significant cuts in non-revenue sports, then we need to drop football and basketball to Patriot or lower.

I would disagree personally with a drop to the Patriot in anything. I see that as significantly below the current level in both revenue, interest and level of competition. I have not seen anything that indicates W&M is planning to drop any non-revenue sports. But, I do appreciate that we appear to have moved on from our MBB Disappointment thread to a discussion of non-revenue sports, at least until our next loss.

The Patriot has an average Men's Basketball attendance of 1,129, which is 48 percent of the CAA average of 2,359. Bucknell leads at 2,546 and is the only team above 1,500. 6 of 10 average less than 1,122, which is what Northeastern has to be last in the CAA. The Women's Basketball averages are closer, with the CAA at 899 and the Patriot at 719. The CAA has 6 public schools, meaning 5 of your 9 opponents. Army and Navy are the only public schools in the Patriot. The Patriot has 4 schools north of New York City. In the CAA you go to Hofstra and Northeastern on one trip.

The CAA doesn't have a TV contract. The Patriot has games on CBS Sports Network and Stadium. Stadium is a sports channel that has so few viewers that there may not be TV ratings for it. It is channel 820 with Fios. 9 of the remaining 39 Patriot games are on one of those channels. Stadium streams games online that aren't on TV and does what CAA.TV does for all games.

(02-06-2019 04:16 PM)EvanJ Wrote:  The Patriot has an average Men's Basketball attendance of 1,129, which is 48 percent of the CAA average of 2,359. Bucknell leads at 2,546 and is the only team above 1,500. 6 of 10 average less than 1,122, which is what Northeastern has to be last in the CAA. The Women's Basketball averages are closer, with the CAA at 899 and the Patriot at 719. The CAA has 6 public schools, meaning 5 of your 9 opponents. Army and Navy are the only public schools in the Patriot. The Patriot has 4 schools north of New York City. In the CAA you go to Hofstra and Northeastern on one trip.

The CAA doesn't have a TV contract. The Patriot has games on CBS Sports Network and Stadium. Stadium is a sports channel that has so few viewers that there may not be TV ratings for it. It is channel 820 with Fios. 9 of the remaining 39 Patriot games are on one of those channels. Stadium streams games online that aren't on TV and does what CAA.TV does for all games.

Perhaps someone should interview the Patriot commissioner ...

(02-06-2019 04:20 PM)LeadBolt Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 04:16 PM)EvanJ Wrote:  The Patriot has an average Men's Basketball attendance of 1,129, which is 48 percent of the CAA average of 2,359. Bucknell leads at 2,546 and is the only team above 1,500. 6 of 10 average less than 1,122, which is what Northeastern has to be last in the CAA. The Women's Basketball averages are closer, with the CAA at 899 and the Patriot at 719. The CAA has 6 public schools, meaning 5 of your 9 opponents. Army and Navy are the only public schools in the Patriot. The Patriot has 4 schools north of New York City. In the CAA you go to Hofstra and Northeastern on one trip.

The CAA doesn't have a TV contract. The Patriot has games on CBS Sports Network and Stadium. Stadium is a sports channel that has so few viewers that there may not be TV ratings for it. It is channel 820 with Fios. 9 of the remaining 39 Patriot games are on one of those channels. Stadium streams games online that aren't on TV and does what CAA.TV does for all games.

Perhaps someone should interview the Patriot commissioner ...

Or hire him!!

Honest request...please list 3 significant accomplishments the Commissioner has pushed foward....go...

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Dude, what about the sweet media deal oh wait...

What about the awesome new MBB tournament site oh wait...

Ummmmmm, he panders well??

(02-06-2019 05:03 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Honest request...please list 3 significant accomplishments the Commissioner has pushed foward....go...

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That’s a fair question. As I mentioned in an earlier thread, he was very willing to talk about TV contracts, tournament sites, and all the other things on my mind. I came away with two definite conclusions. The first was that he’s not going to be as aggressive as Bernadette McGlade of the A-10, whom I really admire. The second was that he is giving the CAA presidents exactly what they want.

A lot of us fans in the CAA feel a little left behind and outmaneuvered in various ways, but to the extent that’s true, I think it’s because our schools value the sickly, scrawny bird in the hand over the two in the bush. It boils down to self-selection. The bolder players in the CAA (eg ODU) have left, for better or worse. The bolder players outside the CAA (eg Davidson) have chosen to land elsewhere.

By all means, call D’Antonio and talk to him; urge him along a little. But lighting a fire under own schools will be far more effective. My personal view is that in Huge and Rowe, W&M has the most aggressive pair of leaders we’ve had in 50 years. So I guess there’s hope.

Yeah, just seems he's locked down one of those no show gigs the Italian mafia used to grant "friends of the family."

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(02-06-2019 06:21 PM)Got Ribe Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 05:03 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Honest request...please list 3 significant accomplishments the Commissioner has pushed foward....go...

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That’s a fair question. As I mentioned in an earlier thread, he was very willing to talk about TV contracts, tournament sites, and all the other things on my mind. I came away with two definite conclusions. The first was that he’s not going to be as aggressive as Bernadette McGlade of the A-10, whom I really admire. The second was that he is giving the CAA presidents exactly what they want.

A lot of us fans in the CAA feel a little left behind and outmaneuvered in various ways, but to the extent that’s true, I think it’s because our schools value the sickly, scrawny bird in the hand over the two in the bush. It boils down to self-selection. The bolder players in the CAA (eg ODU) have left, for better or worse. The bolder players outside the CAA (eg Davidson) have chosen to land elsewhere.

By all means, call D’Antonio and talk to him; urge him along a little. But lighting a fire under own schools will be far more effective. My personal view is that in Huge and Rowe, W&M has the most aggressive pair of leaders we’ve had in 50 years. So I guess there’s hope.

The image of CAA presidents high fiving one another after selection of a 4200 seat arena for the conference tournament is discouraging, but this fits the vibe you received from the commissioner.

Self selection into an amoeba stretching from Charleston to Boston/Orono fits also.

W&M’s leadership team just arrived, however. The Pictor Group’s findings and the new leadership team’s vision surely loom over the horizon.

After triumph in conference tournament, am hoping for a 16 seed and play in game victory so for two days W&M will be only undefeated team in tournament history. Laissez le bons temps roulez.

Not having basketball on such as NBCSportsNetwork, Comcast and MASN channels regularly is a terrible mistake. As I've said before , the CAA has no public image for basketball and is invisible to the general sports public.

Just the opposite is the A-10...their games are all over regular television.

Exactly half of the A10 games are on national TV, and in the Conference RPI they're behind the Ivy and Mid-American. In the Conference NET, the A10 is behind the Mid-American and ahead of the Ivy, but I don't know how that is calculated because the NCAA doesn't give NET values. If you rank the bottom NET team in each conference, the Ivy is above the Pac-12 and AAC.

Sad thing is, the Pac-12 should definitely be a one bid league this year, but they won't. The P-5 powers that be will take care of them (assured of two bids, at least).

As acoording to Billy Joel, "That's just the way it is..."