Jayden Gardner is a very good player. We are lucky to have him, and there is not one single AAC team that wouldn't take him if he wanted to transfer.

The rest of this argument is stupid.

(01-17-2019 03:58 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 12:05 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  You are delusional. Nothing is being hidden. The guy has $hit shooting and an average PER with zero pressure as a reserve and he still can't be efficient when he does play, he's been below average. Maybe he will get better one day but he has sucked as of today and there is no one in their right mind that would pick that over a guy with All American level efficiency in the AAC which is honestly what Gardner has been doing.

lol i just saw an interesting conversation on twitter that relates to this conversation....

and shows the silliness of your argument

it relates to quentin grimes, who is having a down freshman season

by EVERY single argument, you have made today, no coach in their right mind would take grimes over gardner....using those same stats you just used against Hinton.. 100% of coaches are taking grimes before gardner

there are talks about him not living up to the hype, once considers a top 5 pick.. then a couple coaches noted that kelly oubre was in a similar situation before completely taking over. that if he transferred from kansas there will be lines for him

They idiots.

Kelly Oubre
21.1 PER
+19.4 net rating,

Grimes
9.2 PER
-8.4 net rating.

15.0 is the adjusted average for perspective of how below average he is and how much they are getting killed with him on the court.

These are not even remotely close to the same level of play and your argument is stupid if you actually believe this nonsense. Oubre was never that bad. He just didn't get on the court early, this guy sucks when he's on the court and he is a lot.

(01-17-2019 04:42 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 03:58 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 12:05 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  You are delusional. Nothing is being hidden. The guy has $hit shooting and an average PER with zero pressure as a reserve and he still can't be efficient when he does play, he's been below average. Maybe he will get better one day but he has sucked as of today and there is no one in their right mind that would pick that over a guy with All American level efficiency in the AAC which is honestly what Gardner has been doing.

lol i just saw an interesting conversation on twitter that relates to this conversation....

and shows the silliness of your argument

it relates to quentin grimes, who is having a down freshman season

by EVERY single argument, you have made today, no coach in their right mind would take grimes over gardner....using those same stats you just used against Hinton.. 100% of coaches are taking grimes before gardner

there are talks about him not living up to the hype, once considers a top 5 pick.. then a couple coaches noted that kelly oubre was in a similar situation before completely taking over. that if he transferred from kansas there will be lines for him

They idiots.

Kelly Oubre
21.1 PER
+19.4 net rating,

Grimes
9.2 PER
-8.4 net rating.

15.0 is the adjusted average for perspective of how below average he is and how much they are getting killed with him on the court.

These are not even remotely close to the same level of play and your argument is stupid if you actually believe this nonsense. Oubre was never that bad. He just didn't get on the court early, this guy sucks when he's on the court and he is a lot.

hall of fame head coach bill self a few days ago
"Quentin is probably the most well-rounded young guard we've ever had here," he says. "When you think about guards, his handle, explosiveness, strength, range, vision, toughness—he checks a lot of boxes."

my comment wasn't about his performance, which i noted was down
but you noted stats as to why every coach would take Gardner over a certain player, my response was that those same states are even more true for grimes.. but almost every coach in america is taking grimes over gardner despite your PER stats

LOL clearly coach talk to boost confidence, but ok yeah. The best point guard Bill Self has ever coached. Lol

(01-17-2019 04:42 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 03:58 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 12:05 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  You are delusional. Nothing is being hidden. The guy has $hit shooting and an average PER with zero pressure as a reserve and he still can't be efficient when he does play, he's been below average. Maybe he will get better one day but he has sucked as of today and there is no one in their right mind that would pick that over a guy with All American level efficiency in the AAC which is honestly what Gardner has been doing.

lol i just saw an interesting conversation on twitter that relates to this conversation....

and shows the silliness of your argument

it relates to quentin grimes, who is having a down freshman season

by EVERY single argument, you have made today, no coach in their right mind would take grimes over gardner....using those same stats you just used against Hinton.. 100% of coaches are taking grimes before gardner

there are talks about him not living up to the hype, once considers a top 5 pick.. then a couple coaches noted that kelly oubre was in a similar situation before completely taking over. that if he transferred from kansas there will be lines for him

They idiots.

Kelly Oubre
21.1 PER
+19.4 net rating,

Grimes
9.2 PER
-8.4 net rating.

15.0 is the adjusted average for perspective of how below average he is and how much they are getting killed with him on the court.

These are not even remotely close to the same level of play and your argument is stupid if you actually believe this nonsense. Oubre was never that bad. He just didn't get on the court early, this guy sucks when he's on the court and he is a lot.

SJ, are you still a football fan? Just curious. I can only recall you posting on basketball related threads. That's rare for an ECU fan.

(01-17-2019 07:33 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 04:42 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 03:58 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 12:05 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  You are delusional. Nothing is being hidden. The guy has $hit shooting and an average PER with zero pressure as a reserve and he still can't be efficient when he does play, he's been below average. Maybe he will get better one day but he has sucked as of today and there is no one in their right mind that would pick that over a guy with All American level efficiency in the AAC which is honestly what Gardner has been doing.

lol i just saw an interesting conversation on twitter that relates to this conversation....

and shows the silliness of your argument

it relates to quentin grimes, who is having a down freshman season

by EVERY single argument, you have made today, no coach in their right mind would take grimes over gardner....using those same stats you just used against Hinton.. 100% of coaches are taking grimes before gardner

there are talks about him not living up to the hype, once considers a top 5 pick.. then a couple coaches noted that kelly oubre was in a similar situation before completely taking over. that if he transferred from kansas there will be lines for him

They idiots.

Kelly Oubre
21.1 PER
+19.4 net rating,

Grimes
9.2 PER
-8.4 net rating.

15.0 is the adjusted average for perspective of how below average he is and how much they are getting killed with him on the court.

These are not even remotely close to the same level of play and your argument is stupid if you actually believe this nonsense. Oubre was never that bad. He just didn't get on the court early, this guy sucks when he's on the court and he is a lot.

SJ, are you still a football fan? Just curious. I can only recall you posting on basketball related threads. That's rare for an ECU fan.

Of my 14k post and I'm sure more than half been about football but when they fired Ruff combined with all the new CTE revelations that was pretty much when I decided it was a nice clean break. I think our new football coach is one of the best hires in the nation and might even get us to all time highs but I'm still conflicted because think it robs young people of to much I honestly don't want to support it anymore.

My personal opinion is that with all the parents pulling kids out of football currently that will trickle down eventually with the broader fandom around football and it become the new boxing eventually mostly supported by the most desperate communities looking for a way out of poverty or the cult Friday night lights rural ones that revolve around high school football. It might take 40 years but I think it's destine to decline to a much lower status and IMO now is the time ECU should shift money to basketball.

(01-17-2019 10:21 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 07:33 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 04:42 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 03:58 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 12:05 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  You are delusional. Nothing is being hidden. The guy has $hit shooting and an average PER with zero pressure as a reserve and he still can't be efficient when he does play, he's been below average. Maybe he will get better one day but he has sucked as of today and there is no one in their right mind that would pick that over a guy with All American level efficiency in the AAC which is honestly what Gardner has been doing.

lol i just saw an interesting conversation on twitter that relates to this conversation....

and shows the silliness of your argument

it relates to quentin grimes, who is having a down freshman season

by EVERY single argument, you have made today, no coach in their right mind would take grimes over gardner....using those same stats you just used against Hinton.. 100% of coaches are taking grimes before gardner

there are talks about him not living up to the hype, once considers a top 5 pick.. then a couple coaches noted that kelly oubre was in a similar situation before completely taking over. that if he transferred from kansas there will be lines for him

They idiots.

Kelly Oubre
21.1 PER
+19.4 net rating,

Grimes
9.2 PER
-8.4 net rating.

15.0 is the adjusted average for perspective of how below average he is and how much they are getting killed with him on the court.

These are not even remotely close to the same level of play and your argument is stupid if you actually believe this nonsense. Oubre was never that bad. He just didn't get on the court early, this guy sucks when he's on the court and he is a lot.

SJ, are you still a football fan? Just curious. I can only recall you posting on basketball related threads. That's rare for an ECU fan.

Of my 14k post and I'm sure more have been about football than basketball. When they fired Ruff combined with all the new CTE revelations that was pretty much when I decided it was a nice clean break. I think our new football coach is one of the best hires in the nation and might even get us to all time highs but I'm still conflicted because think it robs young people of to much I honestly don't want to support it anymore.

My personal opinion is that with all the parents pulling kids out of football currently that will trickle down eventually with the broader fandom around football and it become the new boxing eventually mostly supported by the most desperate communities looking for a way out of poverty or the cult like IMO Friday night lights in rural ones that revolve around high school football. It might take 40 years but I think it's destine to decline to a much lower status and IMO now is the time ECU should shift money to basketball.

I could see you taking some heat for this position, but I totally agree. I have a brother who graduated high school last year and played football through his sophomore year of high school. As much as I enjoy football, it made me a nervous wreck watching him play and when it was obvious he had lost interest in football and wanted to focus on basketball, I went out of my way to encourage that. Glad he got out, as he was starting to get some interest from D-2 and D-3 schools due to his size (6-4, 250-ish as a high school sophomore). He's a smart kid and being that he was unlikely to ever be an NFL prospect, I am much happier to see him focusing on his studies with a healthy brain as opposed to risking his health on the field.

(01-17-2019 10:31 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 10:21 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 07:33 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 04:42 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 03:58 PM)pesik Wrote:  lol i just saw an interesting conversation on twitter that relates to this conversation....

and shows the silliness of your argument

it relates to quentin grimes, who is having a down freshman season

by EVERY single argument, you have made today, no coach in their right mind would take grimes over gardner....using those same stats you just used against Hinton.. 100% of coaches are taking grimes before gardner

there are talks about him not living up to the hype, once considers a top 5 pick.. then a couple coaches noted that kelly oubre was in a similar situation before completely taking over. that if he transferred from kansas there will be lines for him

They idiots.

Kelly Oubre
21.1 PER
+19.4 net rating,

Grimes
9.2 PER
-8.4 net rating.

15.0 is the adjusted average for perspective of how below average he is and how much they are getting killed with him on the court.

These are not even remotely close to the same level of play and your argument is stupid if you actually believe this nonsense. Oubre was never that bad. He just didn't get on the court early, this guy sucks when he's on the court and he is a lot.

SJ, are you still a football fan? Just curious. I can only recall you posting on basketball related threads. That's rare for an ECU fan.

Of my 14k post and I'm sure more have been about football than basketball. When they fired Ruff combined with all the new CTE revelations that was pretty much when I decided it was a nice clean break. I think our new football coach is one of the best hires in the nation and might even get us to all time highs but I'm still conflicted because think it robs young people of to much I honestly don't want to support it anymore.

My personal opinion is that with all the parents pulling kids out of football currently that will trickle down eventually with the broader fandom around football and it become the new boxing eventually mostly supported by the most desperate communities looking for a way out of poverty or the cult like IMO Friday night lights in rural ones that revolve around high school football. It might take 40 years but I think it's destine to decline to a much lower status and IMO now is the time ECU should shift money to basketball.

I could see you taking some heat for this position, but I totally agree. I have a brother who graduated high school last year and played football through his sophomore year of high school. As much as I enjoy football, it made me a nervous wreck watching him play and when it was obvious he had lost interest in football and wanted to focus on basketball, I went out of my way to encourage that. Glad he got out, as he was starting to get some interest from D-2 and D-3 schools due to his size (6-4, 250-ish as a high school sophomore). He's a smart kid and being that he was unlikely to ever be an NFL prospect, I am much happier to see him focusing on his studies with a healthy brain as opposed to risking his health on the field.

I'm actually from one of those towns I would characterize as the cult like Friday night light ones. My best friend in high school was about 250 and the pressure that was put on him to play football in retrospect I'm glad they didnt want me now. He never liked the $hit but literally felt pressure from his family and the community to play because that's what they do in this place if you are big. It's a manhood thing I think they challenge for those guys. He played had a horrific injury and still has screws and rods today got over 300 pounds in the rehab he struggled for years to lose afterwards etc. It's not just CTE you could literally die out there or have your leg snapped in half as an afterthought. I tried to play I'm just glad I was 6-2 and a buck 40 and they sent me home, saved a few brain cells or worse probably. I personally like football but I don't think you can make it safe and when guys in their 20's are literally walking away from millions of dollars in the NFL it's not worth it.

(01-17-2019 11:06 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 10:31 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 10:21 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 07:33 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 04:42 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  They idiots.

Kelly Oubre
21.1 PER
+19.4 net rating,

Grimes
9.2 PER
-8.4 net rating.

15.0 is the adjusted average for perspective of how below average he is and how much they are getting killed with him on the court.

These are not even remotely close to the same level of play and your argument is stupid if you actually believe this nonsense. Oubre was never that bad. He just didn't get on the court early, this guy sucks when he's on the court and he is a lot.

SJ, are you still a football fan? Just curious. I can only recall you posting on basketball related threads. That's rare for an ECU fan.

Of my 14k post and I'm sure more have been about football than basketball. When they fired Ruff combined with all the new CTE revelations that was pretty much when I decided it was a nice clean break. I think our new football coach is one of the best hires in the nation and might even get us to all time highs but I'm still conflicted because think it robs young people of to much I honestly don't want to support it anymore.

My personal opinion is that with all the parents pulling kids out of football currently that will trickle down eventually with the broader fandom around football and it become the new boxing eventually mostly supported by the most desperate communities looking for a way out of poverty or the cult like IMO Friday night lights in rural ones that revolve around high school football. It might take 40 years but I think it's destine to decline to a much lower status and IMO now is the time ECU should shift money to basketball.

I could see you taking some heat for this position, but I totally agree. I have a brother who graduated high school last year and played football through his sophomore year of high school. As much as I enjoy football, it made me a nervous wreck watching him play and when it was obvious he had lost interest in football and wanted to focus on basketball, I went out of my way to encourage that. Glad he got out, as he was starting to get some interest from D-2 and D-3 schools due to his size (6-4, 250-ish as a high school sophomore). He's a smart kid and being that he was unlikely to ever be an NFL prospect, I am much happier to see him focusing on his studies with a healthy brain as opposed to risking his health on the field.

I'm actually from one of those towns I would characterize as the "cult" like Friday night light ones. My best friend in high school was about 250 and the pressure that was put on him to play football in retrospect I'm glad they didnt want me now. He never liked the $hit but literally felt pressure from his family and the community to play because that's what they do in this place if you are big. It's a manhood thing I thinkk is challenged for those guys. He had a horrific injury and still has screws and rods today got over 300 pounds in the rehab etc. It's not just CTE you could literally die out there or have your leg snapped in half. I tried to play I'm just glad I was 6-2 and a buck 40 at the time and they sent me home. Saved a few brain cells or worse probably. I personally like football but I don't think you can make it safe.

Great post. I had a similar upbringing. I love the game but it really wouldn't break my heart to see the game be fazed out.

Hockey was the best attended sport at my high school. Football was probably 5th in terms of popularity. Tis Connecticut football. I sure as **** wouldn't miss it.

(01-17-2019 11:37 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  Hockey was the best attended sport at my high school. Football was probably 5th in terms of popularity. Tis Connecticut football. I sure as **** wouldn't miss it.

Seeing Nerlens Noel get knocked out mid air last week and then fall and have his head bounce off the court made me realize in a bigger context no sport is safe but there are varying degrees of danger IMO. That's still the first time I really thought a basketball player could die in 30 years of watching basketball. It's not immune either just like any of the other sports.





Still don't think it's football level danger.

Gardner is 18th nationally in Player Efficiency Rating for perspective of the level of play we are talking about here.

1 Zion Williamson, DUKE 16 26.8 11.5 12.1 24.7 12.3 19.8 16.0 42.79
2 Trevion Williams, PUR 15 8.5 10.8 6.0 25.2 22.8 28.1 25.4 38.91
3 Brandon Clarke, GONZ 19 27.4 11.7 10.3 19.4 11.6 17.5 14.5 37.46
4 Max Mahoney, BU 17 25.1 10.6 9.9 23.3 12.0 17.0 14.5 35.48
5 Jay Huff, UVA 13 9.2 5.9 11.9 18.3 9.5 21.9 15.7 34.52
6 Anthony Lamb, UVM 17 31.9 10.0 10.2 26.6 6.4 21.5 14.0 33.91
7 Mike Daum, SDST 20 32.0 7.6 9.6 25.7 6.8 27.6 17.2 32.63
8 Ethan Happ, WIS 17 32.2 18.9 12.0 28.4 8.2 29.7 19.0 32.49
9 Nick Ward, MSU 18 23.0 6.1 13.7 25.3 8.9 19.4 14.1 32.41
10 Juwan Durham, ND 15 15.0 9.2 13.2 16.7 11.4 17.9 14.6 32.27
11 Grant Williams, TENN 15 30.7 18.9 10.6 21.7 6.9 19.4 13.1 32.11
12 Bruno Fernando, MD 18 28.3 12.5 17.8 19.7 10.6 24.5 17.5 32.06
13 Cameron Jackson, WOF 15 23.3 12.8 14.3 25.5 15.4 21.3 18.4 31.98
14 Daishon Smith, ULM 12 32.2 16.6 10.3 22.8 1.9 12.4 7.1 31.71
15 Shamorie Ponds, SJU 17 34.2 24.5 8.0 22.7 3.0 11.7 7.4 31.64
16 Tristan Clark, BAY 14 29.8 12.5 12.5 16.8 7.7 14.2 11.0 31.22
17 John Mooney, ND 17 26.6 9.1 8.2 18.6 10.5 29.6 20.1 31.21
18 Jayden Gardner, ECU 17 30.5 6.7 12.0 23.3 11.4 21.1 16.2 30.94
19 Josh Nebo, TA&M 15 17.2 4.2 15.6 14.1 11.3 19.1 15.2 30.68
20 Juwan Morgan, IND 17 29.4 13.7 12.3 20.5 9.1 21.1 15.1 30.61
21 Zach Hankins, XAV 18 20.3 9.1 12.1 17.5 11.8 15.1 13.4 30.44
22 Kaleb Wesson, OSU 16 24.4 9.3 13.7 26.3 12.2 19.0 15.6 30.25
23 Jarrett Culver, TTU 17 30.8 18.0 12.3 25.1 6.0 19.3 12.7 29.89
24 Dedric Lawson, KU 17 31.7 9.9 10.8 23.8 9.8 25.7 17.8 29.86

http://insider.espn.com/mens-college-bas...statistics