(01-09-2019 01:16 PM)ruowls Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 12:30 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 10:15 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 12:09 AM)Ourland Wrote:  I blame the NCAA, the power conferences, and especially Rice. I blame a pathetic fan base that doesn't do its part to build exciting game day environments for these athletes.

I can tell you right now, with certainty, that Zach will not enroll at any university that doesn't have a winning program in a P5 conference. Why? Because he wants to be seen on television by as many scouts as possible. It has nothing to do with a graduate degree.

I hope Zach reads this board. I want him to know how disgusted I am at his leaving. You're no team captain. You're selfish and your letting your teammates down. All these other dolts are okay with it, but not me.

and who are you? what have you done for this school? have you played a down of football for this school? have you been in his shoes? yeah he's upping his chances. yeah he is trying to get drafted as high as he possibly can, so what? he graduated he fulfilled his part of the deal. you make absolutely no sense what so ever. so he shouldn't do the best he can for himself within the rules?

again who are you to judge him so harshly?

I appreciate your hard work and thank you for playing football at Rice, but as a fan who has literally spent thousands of dollars over the past 35 years at Rice Stadium and Autry Court, your word carries no more weight than mine. You aren't special. I didn't attend Rice, and I'm nothing like Rice people. You can probably tell.
Maybe I shouldn't judge him so harshly. He's a 22 year old kid who lacks maturity and perspective. I should be more upset at his parents for not making him fulfill his obligation, and not teaching him anything about commitment.

Thank you for being a fan. I share some of your feelings about being loyal. However, there are circumstances that fans will never know that go on behind the scenes. Conversations with coaches are private but can be quite visceral. My experience with college coaches is jaded and I understand why players would seek a different environment.
With that said, Rice, as an institution, has gone above to ensure they honor their scholarship until the player graduates. By comparison, I can see the expectation by fans that a player complete their eligibility at Rice. It isn't an obligation nor is required by the rules. It is just an expectation that some may hold and I see a logical reason for holding this opinion.
None of us now what expectations the football coaches have for each player. We have already seen some head scratching moments with regards to personnel, game strategy and game planning, and the program mantra. I have seen some of these decisions that they are making lead to less than desirable results. I am skeptical that all will work out in the end based on my experience. But obviously some hold a different opinion than myself. People who think they understand things in a deeper level aren't always right. The general consensus amongst the football experts was that Alabama would win their 6th NC. Clemson gives them their worst loss in the Saban era and the talk swings to Clemson being an equal. Just last week the experts said they weren't. Rice needs to quite trying to emulate and just be who it is and accentuate the positives of that. They do need to find someone who is adaptable and can anticipate what will unfold. I honestly don't ever want to hear a Rice leader say "I did everything I know that can make things better but....".
So, in a nut shell, please continue to support Rice football. I have no problem giving you a wink and saying "nah, you might want to rethink your position".

I appreciate that. I know I can go off the deep end sometimes, but I have really strong opinions about certain things.

(01-09-2019 12:14 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  Its exactly comparable. He fulfilled his obligation. His obligation isn't for four years it is to graduate, that's it. AND that is what the school expects, you to graduate, not stay for four years. the question was loaded because i knew for a fact that when it came to you and your personal goals you would move on. but these young men aren't people to you, they are commodities. you don't see them like you see yourself, young and trying to do the best for yourself in every situation. you take that promotion but you expect them to lessen themselves.

you don't back down, you have continually showed your lack of knowledge about anything that pertains to ncaa athletics from the inside. you are nothing more than a person that wants to control and own these players because of what they can do.

Right, because I'm a racist cracker...

(01-09-2019 01:51 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 12:14 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  Its exactly comparable. He fulfilled his obligation. His obligation isn't for four years it is to graduate, that's it. AND that is what the school expects, you to graduate, not stay for four years. the question was loaded because i knew for a fact that when it came to you and your personal goals you would move on. but these young men aren't people to you, they are commodities. you don't see them like you see yourself, young and trying to do the best for yourself in every situation. you take that promotion but you expect them to lessen themselves.

you don't back down, you have continually showed your lack of knowledge about anything that pertains to ncaa athletics from the inside. you are nothing more than a person that wants to control and own these players because of what they can do.

Right, because I'm a racist cracker...

obviously you aren't a "rice person". you level of reading comprehension is horrible. using your white privilege and being racist have nothing to do with each other.

and yes i made it about race only to highly the fact that if you look at the numbers, i am in fact special. being that rice was a white only institution for decades, then couple it with the fact that it is very expensive, blacks graduating from here before athletic scholarships was a rarity. so that is the ONLY thing that brought race in with the exception of your white privilege showing.

i'm not ruowls...he's a hell of a lot nicer than i am. probably why i never got a job coaching at rice....i will not sit here and let you attack this young man or his family because you feel that because you paid money you should have x,y and z. nah that aint me. that is a person and he isn't controlled by you our your money. his "contract" is up at the end of each year and he has the right to do what he pleases at the end of each year. his contract is his scholarship and those scholarships are only year to year. so if you are going to base your stance on a contractual agreement he in every way legally AND morally fulfilled his obligation.

my stance remains....i don't want people like you supporting MY school. you are the worst kind. you want to control people with your money. these young men know more about commitment than you EVER will know. until you put your body heart and soul on the line you know nothing about commitment, MONEY can't buy you that.

(01-09-2019 12:30 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 10:15 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 12:09 AM)Ourland Wrote:  I blame the NCAA, the power conferences, and especially Rice. I blame a pathetic fan base that doesn't do its part to build exciting game day environments for these athletes.

I can tell you right now, with certainty, that Zach will not enroll at any university that doesn't have a winning program in a P5 conference. Why? Because he wants to be seen on television by as many scouts as possible. It has nothing to do with a graduate degree.

I hope Zach reads this board. I want him to know how disgusted I am at his leaving. You're no team captain. You're selfish and your letting your teammates down. All these other dolts are okay with it, but not me.

and who are you? what have you done for this school? have you played a down of football for this school? have you been in his shoes? yeah he's upping his chances. yeah he is trying to get drafted as high as he possibly can, so what? he graduated he fulfilled his part of the deal. you make absolutely no sense what so ever. so he shouldn't do the best he can for himself within the rules?

again who are you to judge him so harshly?

I appreciate your hard work and thank you for playing football at Rice, but as a fan who has literally spent thousands of dollars over the past 35 years at Rice Stadium and Autry Court, your word carries no more weight than mine. You aren't special. I didn't attend Rice, and I'm nothing like Rice people. You can probably tell.
Maybe I shouldn't judge him so harshly. He's a 22 year old kid who lacks maturity and perspective. I should be more upset at his parents for not making him fulfill his obligation, and not teaching him anything about commitment.

Graduated with a Rice degree? Had the leadership skills to be named a captain of a D1 football team? I think his parents did quite well. I'd be over the moon if either of my kids turned out like Zach.

Good luck to him. Congrats on getting his degree and his hard work during his time at Rice. I wish nothing but the best for him.

Hopefully we'll create an environment when ALL our players want to stay here even after they graduate. We're not there yet.

(01-09-2019 01:51 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 12:14 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  Its exactly comparable. He fulfilled his obligation. His obligation isn't for four years it is to graduate, that's it. AND that is what the school expects, you to graduate, not stay for four years. the question was loaded because i knew for a fact that when it came to you and your personal goals you would move on. but these young men aren't people to you, they are commodities. you don't see them like you see yourself, young and trying to do the best for yourself in every situation. you take that promotion but you expect them to lessen themselves.

you don't back down, you have continually showed your lack of knowledge about anything that pertains to ncaa athletics from the inside. you are nothing more than a person that wants to control and own these players because of what they can do.

Right, because I'm a racist cracker...

The obligation is the terms of the yearly, renewable scholarship. It is basically a year long contract that states the terms to receive financial aid from the institution. The expectation is that one completes their eligibility at that institution. There is a penalty to leave early to a different institution with regards to eligibility (you have to forfeit a year of eligibility, 5 years to play 4). To play for an institution, you need to be enrolled at that institution and be actively pursing a degree. This is the loophole that if you graduate with eligibility you avoid the forfeiture penalty. Just enroll where you want. Obviously, the institution will not be obligated to enter into a 1 year scholarship if you are not enrolled in that school. It becomes the choice of the individual where they enroll. There is no moral or legal obligation to stay at the institution. There are too many behind the scene factors that go into an individual's decision. It is, however, their decision to make with no legal obligations by any party unless they choose. It is either party's choice. We don't know how that individual will impact a team because only the coach controls that.

Any word on Wilkins? We can lose one DT, losing 2 good 5th year interior line defenders is just brutal for Rice. What is usually a weakness (DT) was going to be a strength.

(01-09-2019 02:04 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 01:51 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 12:14 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  Its exactly comparable. He fulfilled his obligation. His obligation isn't for four years it is to graduate, that's it. AND that is what the school expects, you to graduate, not stay for four years. the question was loaded because i knew for a fact that when it came to you and your personal goals you would move on. but these young men aren't people to you, they are commodities. you don't see them like you see yourself, young and trying to do the best for yourself in every situation. you take that promotion but you expect them to lessen themselves.

you don't back down, you have continually showed your lack of knowledge about anything that pertains to ncaa athletics from the inside. you are nothing more than a person that wants to control and own these players because of what they can do.

Right, because I'm a racist cracker...

obviously you aren't a "rice person". you level of reading comprehension is horrible. using your white privilege and being racist have nothing to do with each other.

and yes i made it about race only to highly the fact that if you look at the numbers, i am in fact special. being that rice was a white only institution for decades, then couple it with the fact that it is very expensive, blacks graduating from here before athletic scholarships was a rarity. so that is the ONLY thing that brought race in with the exception of your white privilege showing.

i'm not ruowls...he's a hell of a lot nicer than i am. probably why i never got a job coaching at rice....i will not sit here and let you attack this young man or his family because you feel that because you paid money you should have x,y and z. nah that aint me. that is a person and he isn't controlled by you our your money. his "contract" is up at the end of each year and he has the right to do what he pleases at the end of each year. his contract is his scholarship and those scholarships are only year to year. so if you are going to base your stance on a contractual agreement he in every way legally AND morally fulfilled his obligation.

my stance remains....i don't want people like you supporting MY school. you are the worst kind. you want to control people with your money. these young men know more about commitment than you EVER will know. until you put your body heart and soul on the line you know nothing about commitment, MONEY can't buy you that.

You are the yin to my yang.
With that being said, I am nicer because unlike DBs, I can catch a football.
Being nice won't get you a job at Rice coaching football either.

(01-09-2019 02:04 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 01:51 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 12:14 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  Its exactly comparable. He fulfilled his obligation. His obligation isn't for four years it is to graduate, that's it. AND that is what the school expects, you to graduate, not stay for four years. the question was loaded because i knew for a fact that when it came to you and your personal goals you would move on. but these young men aren't people to you, they are commodities. you don't see them like you see yourself, young and trying to do the best for yourself in every situation. you take that promotion but you expect them to lessen themselves.

you don't back down, you have continually showed your lack of knowledge about anything that pertains to ncaa athletics from the inside. you are nothing more than a person that wants to control and own these players because of what they can do.

Right, because I'm a racist cracker...

obviously you aren't a "rice person". you level of reading comprehension is horrible. using your white privilege and being racist have nothing to do with each other.

and yes i made it about race only to highly the fact that if you look at the numbers, i am in fact special. being that rice was a white only institution for decades, then couple it with the fact that it is very expensive, blacks graduating from here before athletic scholarships was a rarity. so that is the ONLY thing that brought race in with the exception of your white privilege showing.

i'm not ruowls...he's a hell of a lot nicer than i am. probably why i never got a job coaching at rice....i will not sit here and let you attack this young man or his family because you feel that because you paid money you should have x,y and z. nah that aint me. that is a person and he isn't controlled by you our your money. his "contract" is up at the end of each year and he has the right to do what he pleases at the end of each year. his contract is his scholarship and those scholarships are only year to year. so if you are going to base your stance on a contractual agreement he in every way legally AND morally fulfilled his obligation.

my stance remains....i don't want people like you supporting MY school. you are the worst kind. you want to control people with your money. these young men know more about commitment than you EVER will know. until you put your body heart and soul on the line you know nothing about commitment, MONEY can't buy you that.

Wow! You can't even use proper English and punctuation, but I'm the uneducated one here? If I'm not comprehending, it may be because every sentence of yours is a run-on, and starts with a lower case letter.

You're a bitter race baiter. It's sad that a white man in this day and time can't have a problem with the actions of a black man without being labeled a racist. I don't know what has happened to you to make you so calloused and so quick to play the race card, but none of it was my fault. You need to find some help, or some white friends. I'm serious.

And let me tell you something. I'll be a Rice fan for eternity. No one is taking that from me, not you or anyone else. When I'm dead, my ghost will be at all the games, haunting Rice Stadium and Autry. You wish you could get rid of me.

Lulz

(01-09-2019 12:46 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 12:30 PM)Ourland Wrote:  I appreciate your hard work and thank you for playing football at Rice, but as a fan who has literally spent thousands of dollars over the past 35 years at Rice Stadium and Autry Court, your word carries no more weight than mine. You aren't special. I didn't attend Rice, and I'm nothing like Rice people. You can probably tell.
Maybe I shouldn't judge him so harshly. He's a 22 year old kid who lacks maturity and perspective. I should be more upset at his parents for not making him fulfill his obligation, and not teaching him anything about commitment.

sir i am special, that you are wrong about. when you look at the amount of black football players that have passed and graduated through this school I am part of a very very SPECIAL group. THIS you are totally wrong about. your white privilege is showing. because you give your money doesn't give you the right to to degrade this young man. and YES because i played and gave my body my word in fact DOES carry more weight then yours. you money doesn't put you on my level when it comes to THIS program.
so now you attack his parents for not "raising" him right. he fulfilled his obligation totally and completely. he now knows nothing about commitment but he played four years graduated and was a team captain but because he isn't doing what you and your money have paid for he now isn't up to your standards of human being.....from a former player.....KEEP YOUR MONEY WE DON'T WANT IT. if this is what comes with it...this entitlement to degrade players for who they are and the decisions they make in their best interests....again WE DON'T WANT YOU

I'd weigh in with a friendly request that you both back down a bit.

Ourland, he will have fulfilled every obligation that he owes to Rice of which I am aware. He played football very well, was a team leader, and he is graduating. WTF more does he owe? If he has another year of eligibility left, then it is up to Rice to convince him to utilize that year at Rice. Rice obviously failed at that task. Having fulfilled every obligation he has to Rice, and done so with obvious distinction, he is free to pursue whatever is in his best interests, with our support and blessing. If you complete your degree requirements as a non-athlete, what obligation do you have to stay around? I'm not aware of any. Why should it be different for an athlete? I say thanks, and wish him nothing but the best.

And Nightowl, you are special and I love you, man, but I think you may be jumping the gun on going to the race card on this one. I just don't see where any racial motivation or any "white privilege" plays a part here. Not everything comes down to race. He's wrong and you're right on the substance of the issue, so why drag that in?

Yikes!, an internet thread that breaks down into insults and some pretty serious accusations....... I started reading and contributing to the Parliament chat room because there was fun, usually incisive fan discussions about what is/was happening over on South Main. Opinion based...but many times with deep insight and with certain perspectives that I had never thought about. But over the past couple of months (years?!?) There are really some toxic comments that seem to be driving wedges within and between between this fan community. On a personal basis, it is difficult to read and it takes away from my overall enjoyment of Rice sports. I recognize that I can certainly just turn off my computer if I don't like the comments or direction of the group discussion, but I hope I don't have to make that type of decision.

Back to the topic thread, I have many mixed thoughts about Zach Abercrumbia transferring. I have no idea why he is making his decision, whether he was encouraged to stay or go by the coaching staff or whether another school is talking into his ear about the opportunities at a P5 school similar to the decision made by Calvin Anderson last year to "better prepare him" for a shot at the NFL,....I just recognize that the Rice defense will struggle to replace his 55 tackles in 2018. He did play 3 years for Rice and missed a year due to injuries, which will allow him to compete in 2019.

Because Rice does not have the depth of many of the P5 conference teams, early graduations or transfers hurt far more than they do many other schools. I trace some of the serious decline in Coach Bailiff's teams to the 2015 decisions by Christian Covington to leave early for the NFL draft and Brian Nordstrom not coming back for his red shirt senior year because he had a six figure job opportunity after graduation. Rice was not ready to replace that many down lineman effectively. In neither case did I begrudge the athlete's decision, but it really hurt Rice's defense that year. The earlier point that the new redshirt rules may make this type of graduate student/senior recruiting strategy by P5 schools more of the norm in the NCAA is kind of a chilling prospect. It should be watched closely.

Rice was fortunate to have Zach Abercrombia play for the Owls while he received his degree from the University. I am sorry he is leaving but really wish him great success in the future.

I think that Abercrumbia is every bit as culpable for his decision to leave as were Covington for going to the NFL or Nordstrom for taking a 6-figure job offer. In other words, not at all.

Kayjay is right. Rice was fortunate to have had Zach Abercrumbia, and he has more than fulfilled any obligation he ad to the university and/or its athletic program. Rice students, alumni, staff, and fans should all thank him and wish him the best in the future.

And we should quit whining and get high behind fixing the things that made staying at Rice less attractive than moving on.

(01-09-2019 06:09 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  And we should quit wining and get high behind fixing the things that made staying at Rice less attractive than moving on.

Ding ding ding!

White privilege! Hahaha. Enough internet for today folks.

There only way this exchange becomes ok is if Outland is actually Zach Abercrumbia and he is trolling us (nightowl24 in particular). Ourland is off the deep end on this one, not sure why nightowl24 decided to try and follow him ... step back from the ledge nightowl24!

Ourland, a serious question. Why the explosion about the Abercrumbia transfer? Other guys have transferred since you have been participating on this board (including other black players, to leave the race card off the table). So why flip out now?

I've always had a problem with the transfers out, but I snapped when I saw that someone of such consequence is leaving. I feel like if Abercrumbia is going to play college football, he needs to do it for Rice, a no one else. He got a Rice degree that's worth a couple hundred thousand dollars. He has been taken care of and well compensated for his services. I wish he had decided to be loyal to the program. This hurts the team and the recruiting.

Anyway, I apologize for doing my part to make this a poisonous board for the last two days. More than anything else, I'm sick of what has happened to college athletics.

I'm still unclear how this ended up being race related. I think Ourland is completely wrong and Rice is at fault for the ongoing decades long **** up of the program and its undesirability, but not sure how we got to Race.

am not going any further with this nonsense. if you can't understand the white privilege this person's thoughts are based in then i can't help you. it is very blatant and exceedingly predominant in his views and in his words.

i'll be straight i'm not going to apologize for anything i've said. nothing i said is wrong or untrue. i stated this a while back...this person right here is the reason i stayed off this board. this type of thinking that as players we are a commodity and not actual human beings with goals aspirations, and souls. we are nothing more than pieces on a chessboard that people like ourland brag to their friends about supporting with their money, and because they do they, like the chess pieces, feel they own us and can control us. the person simply stated what many people think but are afraid to say.

be blessed and happy new year to all

this whole post has run me hot and has truly hit a nerve with me. i will end by saying that these young men have feelings, dreams, and free will. always remember that when you speak on what you feel they should do and not do.

(01-10-2019 10:06 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  am not going any further with this nonsense. if you can't understand the white privilege this person's thoughts are based in then i can't help you. it is very blatant and exceedingly predominant in his views and in his words.

i'll be straight i'm not going to apologize for anything i've said. nothing i said is wrong or untrue. i stated this a while back...this person right here is the reason i stayed off this board. this type of thinking that as players we are a commodity and not actual human beings with goals aspirations, and souls. we are nothing more than pieces on a chessboard that people like ourland brag to their friends about supporting with their money, and because they do they, like the chess pieces, feel they own us and can control us. the person simply stated what many people think but are afraid to say.

be blessed and happy new year to all

this whole post has run me hot and has truly hit a nerve with me. i will end by saying that these young men have feelings, dreams, and free will. always remember that when you speak on what you feel they should do and not do.

nightowl24 - worth noting that >90% of the people who have posted seem much closer to your view on the subject of grad transfers (or transfers in general) then Ourland. So please don't feel driven away again by 1 person. I completely agree with you regarding Abercrumbia's transfer. The only transfers I don't like are the guys who came to Rice never intending to graduate, but just hoping to use Rice as a springboard to a better athletic program/team. Can't usually identify these guys from the outside, but I feel like that type of player was just taking a very expensive and worthwhile scholarship who went to someone who actually wanted to be a part of the Rice community. Some guys come here legitimately believing Rice is the best choice for them, and then change their minds and transfer. I can respect that, even if it annoys or disappoints me as a fan.

(01-10-2019 03:16 PM)mrbig Wrote:  nightowl24 - worth noting that >90% of the people who have posted seem much closer to your view on the subject of grad transfers (or transfers in general) then Ourland.

That is true regarding those who have posted.

But, I'd be willing to bet that there are many who disagree with nightowl24, but won't post because they do not wish to risk being slandered simply because they have a different point of view.