(12-27-2018 11:54 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(12-26-2018 11:45 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  

(12-26-2018 11:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-26-2018 10:51 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  So what was the attendance, and how many fans actually traveled, as opposed to locals who bought discount tickets?

Before we get our panties all wadded up, we should get a handle on that. Did the schools even sell out their allotment, or did they turn over a good portion to local vendors to unload? I am pretty sure only a portion of the crowd actually traveled from Idaho and Massachusetts. The hotels may have barely noticed.

I don't have an official total but the Bowl holds 92,000 and from game time pictures of the stadium they might have had 20,000 or fewer and mostly dressed in Orange and Blue.

The number coming from Idaho was 8-10k. That is a lot of money flushed.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Add in the 1000 from BC

Hot Take:. Time to kill this POS Bowl. Send it to a city like Myrtle Beach, Norfolk or St Pete.

Scale of stadium is important

Seems Strong

(12-27-2018 12:53 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  

Quote:NIU/Wyoming triple overtime ended at 3:30 AM.

Okay, yeah. 3:30AM NIU-time or EST? But yeah, why would they do it for that, and not a bowl game?

NIU time.

(12-27-2018 12:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-27-2018 11:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-26-2018 04:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-26-2018 03:34 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-26-2018 03:31 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Wow.
Game cancelled. Will go as a no contest.

Sucks for the teams and fans.

Can't remember the last time a bowl game was canceled in play. Huge disappointment for players, fans, everybody like me watching on TV.

Guess there was just no end in sight to the bad weather.

That's because to my knowledge there never has been a cancellation, ever! I know how you feel Quo but you're about to hear how I feel about it.

College football has been played for over 130 years. I've never heard of a report of a fan or player being killed by weather in that entire 130 years and includes an Auburn / Miami game played in the squalls of an actual hurricane in the early 70's, tornadoes, lightening, hail, snow, and extreme heat.

The snowflake alarmist B.S. being foisted upon us is producing nothing but reactionism by the public.

Yes, but two things have changed since the good old days: The legal threat of liability is much greater, with the chances of a multi-million dollar liability claim far greater now than 50 years ago, and also the instant social media outrage machine would incinerate anyone involved - the bowl, the school, the network, everyone - if there was a lightning threat and something bad happened. Fifty years ago there would be a brief statement from some authority figure regretting the loss of life and that would be it, now there would be 100,000 critical tweets within a half-hour. The title sponsor's Facebook page would be inundated with people saying they'd never do business with them again, etc. Reputations of elite figures would be ruined instantly. Whether these changes are good or bad is another issue, but that's the way it is.

Bottom line: There's very little downside to canceling the game, enormous downside if they play and something bad happens. Why risk it?

Quo, I refuse to submit my life to the court of public opinion, and while I don't pretend to know everything, I do know about my circumstances and risks a helluva lot more than a bunch of strangers pontificating on my decisions from afar. Vox populi should never govern anyone's life. Those chiming in have zero skin in my game and are only aggrandizing their own inadequacies by trying to foist their opinions on the rest of the world.

So when companies I am forced to do business with if I'm to watch football (here's looking at you Disney, CBS, FOX, NBC, and the rest) try to sell me their politics while on my time and dime, or foist their social agenda on me when I'm at an event that I've given my money to see, and make decisions that impact thousands because they fear they might lose a nickel because the faceless plugged in masses feel there is a danger, it pisses me off. It pisses me off because prima facia that is rule by fear of legal action, and rule of mob opinion. In either case it means I'm less free because of it.

Now if the players and coaches feel it is not safe to play then those wishes I'll bow to. But don't alter my decisions because of some vague fear of what remotely might happen. If you go down that path you might as well not even get out of bed in the morning.

When I was 10 I bought my first lawnmower. By the age of 16 I bought my first car with money I made mowing yards and working at a sawmill (started at age 12). Sounds dangerous doesn't it. It wasn't really. The jobs I had at the sawmill at age 12 were tasks I could manage so that older and stronger employees were free for more demanding jobs. At 10 before I could purchase my mower from Sears, my father made me change the filters and oil on his mower, change the blade, and remove the carburetor and reassemble it. He made me mow over a can to see what it would do and showed me how far the mower could sling a stick. So when he was convinced that I was responsible enough to manage a mower I got one. Today if a 10 year old was operating a mower the parents would receive a call from family and children's services. Consequently my grandchildren no longer have the responsibilities or rights that I once had. Why? Mostly because of the irresponsible parents of many other children and an overreaching government stepping in to say no. The result is a more infantile society. Quite the opposite of what many today believe, a progressive society doesn't govern itself by the inadequacies and limitations of its weakest members, but rather gears its future for the brightest and most productive. Our government is going backwards!

For those who think I'm being hyperbolic of course I am to a degree. The only way to point out this kind of fallacy in logic is to carry the action through to its ridiculous conclusion. To make life decisions based on fear is as illogical as it gets when those fears are only remote and there is no statistical data to say anyone is in imminent, or even likely, danger. Modern stadia are Faraday cages. I don't fear lightening inside them. A tornado would get more of my intention but I would simply move into the concession area. I've played football in hail storms. It stings the arms a little but everything else is covered in pads.

We have become a reactionary society and that doesn't bode well long term. Why? We are being preconditioned to respond to what those in authority suggest we should do and to condemn those who act on their own initiative. I'm responsible for me. Not the government, not my neighbor, and not some 18 year old tweeting on their cell phone from their mommy's house. I'll obey the law, but when the crisis strikes I'm ultimately on my own. If a natural event wipes out my home I expect my insurance company to cover most of the loss. That's what I pay them to do. I don't need FEMA prohibiting me from combing through the wreckage of my home to retrieve any important documents, photos, or possessions that might help salvage my loss. Until I can return I only expect my local law enforcement, or perhaps the national guard patrolling to prevent looting until I show my proof of identity and ownership of the wrecked residence.

The more government becomes a parent and the more infant like the public becomes the less free we are. Government is there to maintain our rights, enforce our borders, maintain civil order, and provide for the common defense. It is not my health care provider. That's my responsibility. It's not my economic adviser, that's my responsibility. It's not there to teach my children values, that's my responsibility. It's not there to tell me how I should believe in my faith life, that's my responsibility. But when enough people don't accept their responsibility (as is the current prevailing thought of many of the younger people in this country) it gives government a vacuum to fill but a vacuum that sucks the freedom away from all.

The law is an arm of the government. Civil actions are part of law. When fear of a potential event the likelihood of which has not been determined impinges my freedom because of the fears of the irresponsible and because of the liability fears of companies directly or tangentially related to my activity, my right to choose has been denied.

Case in point. A woman who sat near us at the baseball games for 30 years got plunked on the noggin by a foul ball. She was texting and not watching the game. We were watching the game and if the bimbo seated next to her had not gotten in my way I would have spared her the shock of having baseball come to her while she wasn't mentally dialed into the game. Our seats were on the first base line. We chose those seats because they were beyond the home plate area backstop and fence. I had an unobstructed view of the field. She complained about the danger and the University's knee jerk reaction was to extend the fence all the way to the foul pole. 30 years of baseball enjoyment was gone because one idiot, who was not there to watch the game, was hit by a soft fly ball that if she had been watching she could have side stepped easily. Why should my right to enjoy a baseball game be impinged by an individual who wanted to chat via phone with her buddies because her husband wanted to watch the game? He probably could have saved her the bump had he not gone to the Men's room. The way the stadium was designed most line drives could not reach the stands until well into the outfield. Pop flies are not a real health risk to aware individuals. So my rights have been curtailed by the personal choices and irresponsibility of others. That's worth fighting a revolution over. And it is why I don't take the histrionic reactions of others wanting to impinge my rights lightly!

Let me guess. When you were a kid you walked 5 miles one way to school, through 5 feet of snow, uphill both ways.

(12-27-2018 02:12 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(12-27-2018 12:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-27-2018 11:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-26-2018 04:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-26-2018 03:34 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Can't remember the last time a bowl game was canceled in play. Huge disappointment for players, fans, everybody like me watching on TV.

Guess there was just no end in sight to the bad weather.

That's because to my knowledge there never has been a cancellation, ever! I know how you feel Quo but you're about to hear how I feel about it.

College football has been played for over 130 years. I've never heard of a report of a fan or player being killed by weather in that entire 130 years and includes an Auburn / Miami game played in the squalls of an actual hurricane in the early 70's, tornadoes, lightening, hail, snow, and extreme heat.

The snowflake alarmist B.S. being foisted upon us is producing nothing but reactionism by the public.

Yes, but two things have changed since the good old days: The legal threat of liability is much greater, with the chances of a multi-million dollar liability claim far greater now than 50 years ago, and also the instant social media outrage machine would incinerate anyone involved - the bowl, the school, the network, everyone - if there was a lightning threat and something bad happened. Fifty years ago there would be a brief statement from some authority figure regretting the loss of life and that would be it, now there would be 100,000 critical tweets within a half-hour. The title sponsor's Facebook page would be inundated with people saying they'd never do business with them again, etc. Reputations of elite figures would be ruined instantly. Whether these changes are good or bad is another issue, but that's the way it is.

Bottom line: There's very little downside to canceling the game, enormous downside if they play and something bad happens. Why risk it?

Quo, I refuse to submit my life to the court of public opinion, and while I don't pretend to know everything, I do know about my circumstances and risks a helluva lot more than a bunch of strangers pontificating on my decisions from afar. Vox populi should never govern anyone's life. Those chiming in have zero skin in my game and are only aggrandizing their own inadequacies by trying to foist their opinions on the rest of the world.

So when companies I am forced to do business with if I'm to watch football (here's looking at you Disney, CBS, FOX, NBC, and the rest) try to sell me their politics while on my time and dime, or foist their social agenda on me when I'm at an event that I've given my money to see, and make decisions that impact thousands because they fear they might lose a nickel because the faceless plugged in masses feel there is a danger, it pisses me off. It pisses me off because prima facia that is rule by fear of legal action, and rule of mob opinion. In either case it means I'm less free because of it.

Now if the players and coaches feel it is not safe to play then those wishes I'll bow to. But don't alter my decisions because of some vague fear of what remotely might happen. If you go down that path you might as well not even get out of bed in the morning.

When I was 10 I bought my first lawnmower. By the age of 16 I bought my first car with money I made mowing yards and working at a sawmill (started at age 12). Sounds dangerous doesn't it. It wasn't really. The jobs I had at the sawmill at age 12 were tasks I could manage so that older and stronger employees were free for more demanding jobs. At 10 before I could purchase my mower from Sears, my father made me change the filters and oil on his mower, change the blade, and remove the carburetor and reassemble it. He made me mow over a can to see what it would do and showed me how far the mower could sling a stick. So when he was convinced that I was responsible enough to manage a mower I got one. Today if a 10 year old was operating a mower the parents would receive a call from family and children's services. Consequently my grandchildren no longer have the responsibilities or rights that I once had. Why? Mostly because of the irresponsible parents of many other children and an overreaching government stepping in to say no. The result is a more infantile society. Quite the opposite of what many today believe, a progressive society doesn't govern itself by the inadequacies and limitations of its weakest members, but rather gears its future for the brightest and most productive. Our government is going backwards!

For those who think I'm being hyperbolic of course I am to a degree. The only way to point out this kind of fallacy in logic is to carry the action through to its ridiculous conclusion. To make life decisions based on fear is as illogical as it gets when those fears are only remote and there is no statistical data to say anyone is in imminent, or even likely, danger. Modern stadia are Faraday cages. I don't fear lightening inside them. A tornado would get more of my intention but I would simply move into the concession area. I've played football in hail storms. It stings the arms a little but everything else is covered in pads.

We have become a reactionary society and that doesn't bode well long term. Why? We are being preconditioned to respond to what those in authority suggest we should do and to condemn those who act on their own initiative. I'm responsible for me. Not the government, not my neighbor, and not some 18 year old tweeting on their cell phone from their mommy's house. I'll obey the law, but when the crisis strikes I'm ultimately on my own. If a natural event wipes out my home I expect my insurance company to cover most of the loss. That's what I pay them to do. I don't need FEMA prohibiting me from combing through the wreckage of my home to retrieve any important documents, photos, or possessions that might help salvage my loss. Until I can return I only expect my local law enforcement, or perhaps the national guard patrolling to prevent looting until I show my proof of identity and ownership of the wrecked residence.

The more government becomes a parent and the more infant like the public becomes the less free we are. Government is there to maintain our rights, enforce our borders, maintain civil order, and provide for the common defense. It is not my health care provider. That's my responsibility. It's not my economic adviser, that's my responsibility. It's not there to teach my children values, that's my responsibility. It's not there to tell me how I should believe in my faith life, that's my responsibility. But when enough people don't accept their responsibility (as is the current prevailing thought of many of the younger people in this country) it gives government a vacuum to fill but a vacuum that sucks the freedom away from all.

The law is an arm of the government. Civil actions are part of law. When fear of a potential event the likelihood of which has not been determined impinges my freedom because of the fears of the irresponsible and because of the liability fears of companies directly or tangentially related to my activity, my right to choose has been denied.

Case in point. A woman who sat near us at the baseball games for 30 years got plunked on the noggin by a foul ball. She was texting and not watching the game. We were watching the game and if the bimbo seated next to her had not gotten in my way I would have spared her the shock of having baseball come to her while she wasn't mentally dialed into the game. Our seats were on the first base line. We chose those seats because they were beyond the home plate area backstop and fence. I had an unobstructed view of the field. She complained about the danger and the University's knee jerk reaction was to extend the fence all the way to the foul pole. 30 years of baseball enjoyment was gone because one idiot, who was not there to watch the game, was hit by a soft fly ball that if she had been watching she could have side stepped easily. Why should my right to enjoy a baseball game be impinged by an individual who wanted to chat via phone with her buddies because her husband wanted to watch the game? He probably could have saved her the bump had he not gone to the Men's room. The way the stadium was designed most line drives could not reach the stands until well into the outfield. Pop flies are not a real health risk to aware individuals. So my rights have been curtailed by the personal choices and irresponsibility of others. That's worth fighting a revolution over. And it is why I don't take the histrionic reactions of others wanting to impinge my rights lightly!

Let me guess. When you were a kid you walked 5 miles one way to school, through 5 feet of snow, uphill both ways.

Nope, although I once walked home from school in a blizzard, literally. Still have the frost bite scar to prove it. It was an accident of communication by the carpool and I wasn't alone. A neighborhood girl made the walk with me.

(12-27-2018 02:11 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(12-27-2018 12:53 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  

Quote:NIU/Wyoming triple overtime ended at 3:30 AM.

Okay, yeah. 3:30AM NIU-time or EST? But yeah, why would they do it for that, and not a bowl game?

NIU time.

Oklahoma State at Tulsa in 2011 finally got started at 12:16CT and ended at 3:35CT. Kickoff was scheduled for 9:10CT.

(12-27-2018 12:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Quo, I refuse to submit my life to the court of public opinion, and while I don't pretend to know everything, I do know about my circumstances and risks a helluva lot more than a bunch of strangers pontificating on my decisions from afar. Vox populi should never govern anyone's life. Those chiming in have zero skin in my game and are only aggrandizing their own inadequacies by trying to foist their opinions on the rest of the world.

So when companies I am forced to do business with if I'm to watch football (here's looking at you Disney, CBS, FOX, NBC, and the rest) try to sell me their politics while on my time and dime, or foist their social agenda on me when I'm at an event that I've given my money to see, and make decisions that impact thousands because they fear they might lose a nickel because the faceless plugged in masses feel there is a danger, it pisses me off. It pisses me off because prima facia that is rule by fear of legal action, and rule of mob opinion. In either case it means I'm less free because of it.

Now if the players and coaches feel it is not safe to play then those wishes I'll bow to. But don't alter my decisions because of some vague fear of what remotely might happen. If you go down that path you might as well not even get out of bed in the morning.

When I was 10 I bought my first lawnmower. By the age of 16 I bought my first car with money I made mowing yards and working at a sawmill (started at age 12). Sounds dangerous doesn't it. It wasn't really. The jobs I had at the sawmill at age 12 were tasks I could manage so that older and stronger employees were free for more demanding jobs. At 10 before I could purchase my mower from Sears, my father made me change the filters and oil on his mower, change the blade, and remove the carburetor and reassemble it. He made me mow over a can to see what it would do and showed me how far the mower could sling a stick. So when he was convinced that I was responsible enough to manage a mower I got one. Today if a 10 year old was operating a mower the parents would receive a call from family and children's services. Consequently my grandchildren no longer have the responsibilities or rights that I once had. Why? Mostly because of the irresponsible parents of many other children and an overreaching government stepping in to say no. The result is a more infantile society. Quite the opposite of what many today believe, a progressive society doesn't govern itself by the inadequacies and limitations of its weakest members, but rather gears its future for the brightest and most productive. Our government is going backwards!

For those who think I'm being hyperbolic of course I am to a degree. The only way to point out this kind of fallacy in logic is to carry the action through to its ridiculous conclusion. To make life decisions based on fear is as illogical as it gets when those fears are only remote and there is no statistical data to say anyone is in imminent, or even likely, danger. Modern stadia are Faraday cages. I don't fear lightening inside them. A tornado would get more of my intention but I would simply move into the concession area. I've played football in hail storms. It stings the arms a little but everything else is covered in pads.

We have become a reactionary society and that doesn't bode well long term. Why? We are being preconditioned to respond to what those in authority suggest we should do and to condemn those who act on their own initiative. I'm responsible for me. Not the government, not my neighbor, and not some 18 year old tweeting on their cell phone from their mommy's house. I'll obey the law, but when the crisis strikes I'm ultimately on my own. If a natural event wipes out my home I expect my insurance company to cover most of the loss. That's what I pay them to do. I don't need FEMA prohibiting me from combing through the wreckage of my home to retrieve any important documents, photos, or possessions that might help salvage my loss. Until I can return I only expect my local law enforcement, or perhaps the national guard patrolling to prevent looting until I show my proof of identity and ownership of the wrecked residence.

The more government becomes a parent and the more infant like the public becomes the less free we are. Government is there to maintain our rights, enforce our borders, maintain civil order, and provide for the common defense. It is not my health care provider. That's my responsibility. It's not my economic adviser, that's my responsibility. It's not there to teach my children values, that's my responsibility. It's not there to tell me how I should believe in my faith life, that's my responsibility. But when enough people don't accept their responsibility (as is the current prevailing thought of many of the younger people in this country) it gives government a vacuum to fill but a vacuum that sucks the freedom away from all.

The law is an arm of the government. Civil actions are part of law. When fear of a potential event the likelihood of which has not been determined impinges my freedom because of the fears of the irresponsible and because of the liability fears of companies directly or tangentially related to my activity, my right to choose has been denied.

Case in point. A woman who sat near us at the baseball games for 30 years got plunked on the noggin by a foul ball. She was texting and not watching the game. We were watching the game and if the bimbo seated next to her had not gotten in my way I would have spared her the shock of having baseball come to her while she wasn't mentally dialed into the game. Our seats were on the first base line. We chose those seats because they were beyond the home plate area backstop and fence. I had an unobstructed view of the field. She complained about the danger and the University's knee jerk reaction was to extend the fence all the way to the foul pole. 30 years of baseball enjoyment was gone because one idiot, who was not there to watch the game, was hit by a soft fly ball that if she had been watching she could have side stepped easily. Why should my right to enjoy a baseball game be impinged by an individual who wanted to chat via phone with her buddies because her husband wanted to watch the game? He probably could have saved her the bump had he not gone to the Men's room. The way the stadium was designed most line drives could not reach the stands until well into the outfield. Pop flies are not a real health risk to aware individuals. So my rights have been curtailed by the personal choices and irresponsibility of others. That's worth fighting a revolution over. And it is why I don't take the histrionic reactions of others wanting to impinge my rights lightly!

This could not be said any better. I started mowing the yard at age 9 although I did not do all the things you did, I just put the gas in and mowed. It was how I earned my allowance. I blame all this mess on the McDonalds coffee lady.

(12-27-2018 12:20 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(12-27-2018 12:10 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  What game was it, like 2 years ago in Wyoming non-conf game? I think it was a MAC team vs Wyoming. Big delay.

They ended up playing at 3AM EST or something like that for the rest of the game (most of the game). Crazy.

NIU/Wyoming triple overtime ended at 3:30 AM.

It didn’t stop raining and lighting until 2am. Today it’s a sunny 65 degree day. This reminds me of the Super Bowl fiasco in 2011 where we had an ice storm that week and events were canceled and it was in the 70s a few days later after the game. The rumor back then was the NFL was furious how DFW handled the situation and vowed never to have the SB here again.

If that bowl is going to survive, it needs a contegency plan in case something like this happens again. They could’ve moved the game to the 12k seat The Star in Frisco (Cowboys indoor practice facility). AT&T Stadium was available as well. Just have the teams play, no fans allowed. ESPN has plenty of airtime available after 10pm ET. It sucks for the fans who made it all the way here.

(12-27-2018 02:56 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(12-27-2018 12:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Quo, I refuse to submit my life to the court of public opinion, and while I don't pretend to know everything, I do know about my circumstances and risks a helluva lot more than a bunch of strangers pontificating on my decisions from afar. Vox populi should never govern anyone's life. Those chiming in have zero skin in my game and are only aggrandizing their own inadequacies by trying to foist their opinions on the rest of the world.

So when companies I am forced to do business with if I'm to watch football (here's looking at you Disney, CBS, FOX, NBC, and the rest) try to sell me their politics while on my time and dime, or foist their social agenda on me when I'm at an event that I've given my money to see, and make decisions that impact thousands because they fear they might lose a nickel because the faceless plugged in masses feel there is a danger, it pisses me off. It pisses me off because prima facia that is rule by fear of legal action, and rule of mob opinion. In either case it means I'm less free because of it.

Now if the players and coaches feel it is not safe to play then those wishes I'll bow to. But don't alter my decisions because of some vague fear of what remotely might happen. If you go down that path you might as well not even get out of bed in the morning.

When I was 10 I bought my first lawnmower. By the age of 16 I bought my first car with money I made mowing yards and working at a sawmill (started at age 12). Sounds dangerous doesn't it. It wasn't really. The jobs I had at the sawmill at age 12 were tasks I could manage so that older and stronger employees were free for more demanding jobs. At 10 before I could purchase my mower from Sears, my father made me change the filters and oil on his mower, change the blade, and remove the carburetor and reassemble it. He made me mow over a can to see what it would do and showed me how far the mower could sling a stick. So when he was convinced that I was responsible enough to manage a mower I got one. Today if a 10 year old was operating a mower the parents would receive a call from family and children's services. Consequently my grandchildren no longer have the responsibilities or rights that I once had. Why? Mostly because of the irresponsible parents of many other children and an overreaching government stepping in to say no. The result is a more infantile society. Quite the opposite of what many today believe, a progressive society doesn't govern itself by the inadequacies and limitations of its weakest members, but rather gears its future for the brightest and most productive. Our government is going backwards!

For those who think I'm being hyperbolic of course I am to a degree. The only way to point out this kind of fallacy in logic is to carry the action through to its ridiculous conclusion. To make life decisions based on fear is as illogical as it gets when those fears are only remote and there is no statistical data to say anyone is in imminent, or even likely, danger. Modern stadia are Faraday cages. I don't fear lightening inside them. A tornado would get more of my intention but I would simply move into the concession area. I've played football in hail storms. It stings the arms a little but everything else is covered in pads.

We have become a reactionary society and that doesn't bode well long term. Why? We are being preconditioned to respond to what those in authority suggest we should do and to condemn those who act on their own initiative. I'm responsible for me. Not the government, not my neighbor, and not some 18 year old tweeting on their cell phone from their mommy's house. I'll obey the law, but when the crisis strikes I'm ultimately on my own. If a natural event wipes out my home I expect my insurance company to cover most of the loss. That's what I pay them to do. I don't need FEMA prohibiting me from combing through the wreckage of my home to retrieve any important documents, photos, or possessions that might help salvage my loss. Until I can return I only expect my local law enforcement, or perhaps the national guard patrolling to prevent looting until I show my proof of identity and ownership of the wrecked residence.

The more government becomes a parent and the more infant like the public becomes the less free we are. Government is there to maintain our rights, enforce our borders, maintain civil order, and provide for the common defense. It is not my health care provider. That's my responsibility. It's not my economic adviser, that's my responsibility. It's not there to teach my children values, that's my responsibility. It's not there to tell me how I should believe in my faith life, that's my responsibility. But when enough people don't accept their responsibility (as is the current prevailing thought of many of the younger people in this country) it gives government a vacuum to fill but a vacuum that sucks the freedom away from all.

The law is an arm of the government. Civil actions are part of law. When fear of a potential event the likelihood of which has not been determined impinges my freedom because of the fears of the irresponsible and because of the liability fears of companies directly or tangentially related to my activity, my right to choose has been denied.

Case in point. A woman who sat near us at the baseball games for 30 years got plunked on the noggin by a foul ball. She was texting and not watching the game. We were watching the game and if the bimbo seated next to her had not gotten in my way I would have spared her the shock of having baseball come to her while she wasn't mentally dialed into the game. Our seats were on the first base line. We chose those seats because they were beyond the home plate area backstop and fence. I had an unobstructed view of the field. She complained about the danger and the University's knee jerk reaction was to extend the fence all the way to the foul pole. 30 years of baseball enjoyment was gone because one idiot, who was not there to watch the game, was hit by a soft fly ball that if she had been watching she could have side stepped easily. Why should my right to enjoy a baseball game be impinged by an individual who wanted to chat via phone with her buddies because her husband wanted to watch the game? He probably could have saved her the bump had he not gone to the Men's room. The way the stadium was designed most line drives could not reach the stands until well into the outfield. Pop flies are not a real health risk to aware individuals. So my rights have been curtailed by the personal choices and irresponsibility of others. That's worth fighting a revolution over. And it is why I don't take the histrionic reactions of others wanting to impinge my rights lightly!

This could not be said any better. I started mowing the yard at age 9 although I did not do all the things you did, I just put the gas in and mowed. It was how I earned my allowance. I blame all this mess on the McDonalds coffee lady.

Agree with these entirely, while I did not mow lawns, I had a paper route early in the morning and later on an afternoon route. I learned a lot of thing involving customer service and collecting bills. Kids do not even do routes presently.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

(12-27-2018 02:15 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-27-2018 02:12 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(12-27-2018 12:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-27-2018 11:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-26-2018 04:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  That's because to my knowledge there never has been a cancellation, ever! I know how you feel Quo but you're about to hear how I feel about it.

College football has been played for over 130 years. I've never heard of a report of a fan or player being killed by weather in that entire 130 years and includes an Auburn / Miami game played in the squalls of an actual hurricane in the early 70's, tornadoes, lightening, hail, snow, and extreme heat.

The snowflake alarmist B.S. being foisted upon us is producing nothing but reactionism by the public.

Yes, but two things have changed since the good old days: The legal threat of liability is much greater, with the chances of a multi-million dollar liability claim far greater now than 50 years ago, and also the instant social media outrage machine would incinerate anyone involved - the bowl, the school, the network, everyone - if there was a lightning threat and something bad happened. Fifty years ago there would be a brief statement from some authority figure regretting the loss of life and that would be it, now there would be 100,000 critical tweets within a half-hour. The title sponsor's Facebook page would be inundated with people saying they'd never do business with them again, etc. Reputations of elite figures would be ruined instantly. Whether these changes are good or bad is another issue, but that's the way it is.

Bottom line: There's very little downside to canceling the game, enormous downside if they play and something bad happens. Why risk it?

Quo, I refuse to submit my life to the court of public opinion, and while I don't pretend to know everything, I do know about my circumstances and risks a helluva lot more than a bunch of strangers pontificating on my decisions from afar. Vox populi should never govern anyone's life. Those chiming in have zero skin in my game and are only aggrandizing their own inadequacies by trying to foist their opinions on the rest of the world.

So when companies I am forced to do business with if I'm to watch football (here's looking at you Disney, CBS, FOX, NBC, and the rest) try to sell me their politics while on my time and dime, or foist their social agenda on me when I'm at an event that I've given my money to see, and make decisions that impact thousands because they fear they might lose a nickel because the faceless plugged in masses feel there is a danger, it pisses me off. It pisses me off because prima facia that is rule by fear of legal action, and rule of mob opinion. In either case it means I'm less free because of it.

Now if the players and coaches feel it is not safe to play then those wishes I'll bow to. But don't alter my decisions because of some vague fear of what remotely might happen. If you go down that path you might as well not even get out of bed in the morning.

When I was 10 I bought my first lawnmower. By the age of 16 I bought my first car with money I made mowing yards and working at a sawmill (started at age 12). Sounds dangerous doesn't it. It wasn't really. The jobs I had at the sawmill at age 12 were tasks I could manage so that older and stronger employees were free for more demanding jobs. At 10 before I could purchase my mower from Sears, my father made me change the filters and oil on his mower, change the blade, and remove the carburetor and reassemble it. He made me mow over a can to see what it would do and showed me how far the mower could sling a stick. So when he was convinced that I was responsible enough to manage a mower I got one. Today if a 10 year old was operating a mower the parents would receive a call from family and children's services. Consequently my grandchildren no longer have the responsibilities or rights that I once had. Why? Mostly because of the irresponsible parents of many other children and an overreaching government stepping in to say no. The result is a more infantile society. Quite the opposite of what many today believe, a progressive society doesn't govern itself by the inadequacies and limitations of its weakest members, but rather gears its future for the brightest and most productive. Our government is going backwards!

For those who think I'm being hyperbolic of course I am to a degree. The only way to point out this kind of fallacy in logic is to carry the action through to its ridiculous conclusion. To make life decisions based on fear is as illogical as it gets when those fears are only remote and there is no statistical data to say anyone is in imminent, or even likely, danger. Modern stadia are Faraday cages. I don't fear lightening inside them. A tornado would get more of my intention but I would simply move into the concession area. I've played football in hail storms. It stings the arms a little but everything else is covered in pads.

We have become a reactionary society and that doesn't bode well long term. Why? We are being preconditioned to respond to what those in authority suggest we should do and to condemn those who act on their own initiative. I'm responsible for me. Not the government, not my neighbor, and not some 18 year old tweeting on their cell phone from their mommy's house. I'll obey the law, but when the crisis strikes I'm ultimately on my own. If a natural event wipes out my home I expect my insurance company to cover most of the loss. That's what I pay them to do. I don't need FEMA prohibiting me from combing through the wreckage of my home to retrieve any important documents, photos, or possessions that might help salvage my loss. Until I can return I only expect my local law enforcement, or perhaps the national guard patrolling to prevent looting until I show my proof of identity and ownership of the wrecked residence.

The more government becomes a parent and the more infant like the public becomes the less free we are. Government is there to maintain our rights, enforce our borders, maintain civil order, and provide for the common defense. It is not my health care provider. That's my responsibility. It's not my economic adviser, that's my responsibility. It's not there to teach my children values, that's my responsibility. It's not there to tell me how I should believe in my faith life, that's my responsibility. But when enough people don't accept their responsibility (as is the current prevailing thought of many of the younger people in this country) it gives government a vacuum to fill but a vacuum that sucks the freedom away from all.

The law is an arm of the government. Civil actions are part of law. When fear of a potential event the likelihood of which has not been determined impinges my freedom because of the fears of the irresponsible and because of the liability fears of companies directly or tangentially related to my activity, my right to choose has been denied.

Case in point. A woman who sat near us at the baseball games for 30 years got plunked on the noggin by a foul ball. She was texting and not watching the game. We were watching the game and if the bimbo seated next to her had not gotten in my way I would have spared her the shock of having baseball come to her while she wasn't mentally dialed into the game. Our seats were on the first base line. We chose those seats because they were beyond the home plate area backstop and fence. I had an unobstructed view of the field. She complained about the danger and the University's knee jerk reaction was to extend the fence all the way to the foul pole. 30 years of baseball enjoyment was gone because one idiot, who was not there to watch the game, was hit by a soft fly ball that if she had been watching she could have side stepped easily. Why should my right to enjoy a baseball game be impinged by an individual who wanted to chat via phone with her buddies because her husband wanted to watch the game? He probably could have saved her the bump had he not gone to the Men's room. The way the stadium was designed most line drives could not reach the stands until well into the outfield. Pop flies are not a real health risk to aware individuals. So my rights have been curtailed by the personal choices and irresponsibility of others. That's worth fighting a revolution over. And it is why I don't take the histrionic reactions of others wanting to impinge my rights lightly!

Let me guess. When you were a kid you walked 5 miles one way to school, through 5 feet of snow, uphill both ways.

Nope, although I once walked home from school in a blizzard, literally. Still have the frost bite scar to prove it. It was an accident of communication by the carpool and I wasn't alone. A neighborhood girl made the walk with me.

About your post though, I agree that there's always an idiot that ruins it for everyone else. A lot of the time it's the drunk idiot, but not always.

(12-27-2018 03:24 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  ...I agree that there's always an idiot that ruins it for everyone else. A lot of the time it's the drunk idiot, but not always.

Watch out... you might get in trouble for discriminating against alcohol-addicted people.


Look, I wouldn't want to watch - or PLAY! - a game in an on-going thunderstorm. Point is, the game could've been played today, so why cancel it? (though it would still be reasonable to refund tickets for those who just couldn't come back the next day).

But who raised those lazy, ungrateful, entitled kids? They were not raised by themselves. Millennials didn’t raise other millennials. It was baby boomers and older Gen Xers. The same people who crap on millennials.

Every generation hears the same thing from older people. “Back in the good old days”, “when I was growing up”, “people back then”, etc. It’s human nature to cling to “better times” from the past (when we were younger) and be nostalgic about it. It’s okay. But I’m glad I don’t live in the past where people had to know their place and everything was swept under the rug to keep appearances.

I wonder if it was snowing and cold if they would cancel the game because of frostbite potential.

(12-27-2018 04:04 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  I wonder if it was snowing and cold if they would cancel the game because of frostbite potential.

How dare you even raise the concept!

(12-27-2018 04:00 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  But who raised those lazy, ungrateful, entitled kids? They were not raised by themselves. Millennials didn’t raise other millennials. It was baby boomers and older Gen Xers. The same people who crap on millennials.

Every generation hears the same thing from older people. “Back in the good old days”, “when I was growing up”, “people back then”, etc. It’s human nature to cling to “better times” from the past (when we were younger) and be nostalgic about it. It’s okay. But I’m glad I don’t live in the past where people had to know their place and everything was swept under the rug to keep appearances.

What the parents did was entrust too much to the education system where they had no concept of how much change had occurred since they were in schools. In came the nanny state laws where kids couldn't defend themselves against bullies on the playground and bus without getting suspended, where new math failed to teach the theory behind math and the basics of it and new confusing ways of teaching were instigated, where participation trophies became the norm, and grades were devalued by the handing out of better scores to keep the parental griping to a minimum. The reasons Millennials turned out the way they did is that most of them didn't have a stay at home Mom (or Dad) and came from two paycheck households where daycare followed elementary school. They saw their parents at dinner time and frequently in restaurants, rather than the home. Then it was to their own rooms with their own TV's to do their homework and in the morning they were off to school.

I can't tell you how many families I encountered which had to be coached into actually spending time with their kids.

I'm not nostalgic for the past ills, but I am nostalgic for the time when families were more nuclear. The number of interpersonal issues that have been exponentially spawned by the absence of the nuclear family are extensive. And again that's not to say all nuclear families were free of issues, they weren't. But the main thing I see lacking in Millennials is an ironclad sense of identity. Most I encounter, even when gifted, are not as confident as they should be. I chalk that up to not enough one on one time with parents. It is why I believe they are so susceptible to fear mongering. They also aren't as socially skilled as past generations I've witnessed. They are social with each other but frequently remotely rather than face to face. Many of them are reluctant to address problems and do their own version of sweeping things under the carpet for appearances sake.

I understand UTEPDallas's arguments here because I've witnessed Boomer parents who were more concerned with appearances than with reality. The high debt load many of them carry into retirement is evidence of their need to be seen as successful rather than to be seen as good stewards of what they actually have. But the kids are no less appearance conscious its just that their standards for outward signs of social approval are very different. They fear looking inept, un-knowledgeable, or wrong. So they are reticent to admit they need help or acknowledge a mistake.

So I would say if I had to lay blame anywhere it would be the double digit inflation of the 70's which turned most American homes into 2 paycheck households out of necessity. Toss in the change in emphasis in education and add no parental face time to the equation and voila we have a second generation just as lost and confused as their parents, but over entirely different things. The trick is finding what was solid from the Boomer generation and holding onto it, and changing the things that were wrong. Unfortunately that task will now fall to Millennials to intentionally evaluate their successes and try to pass those traits on to their children, while they encourage their children to change the traits that held them and their parents back. But to do that it requires self awareness. Boomers were way too narcissistic as a whole to tackle that, and their children are way too mistrustful and insecure to do so.

But you'll note that interpersonal traits are not anything that I addressed. Personal responsibility was. We all could have blamed our failures on our parents, but passing the blame accomplishes little of value and is destructive inasmuch as once again it is the avoidance of owning a problem or mistake. You can't fix what you can't acknowledge or personally take responsibility over. The most successful people I've known across 4 generations plus have all shared one trait. They claim their errors and correct them, and then move on. They don't deny responsibility and assign blame. I get danged tired of a government that only makes excuses and blames the other side. It's time we fire them all and put a new group in and repeat the process until we get people who claim the issues and work to resolve them. In a nation of 300 million surely there are 400 or so out there who possess that ability.

(12-27-2018 01:20 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  

(12-27-2018 11:54 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(12-26-2018 11:45 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  

(12-26-2018 11:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-26-2018 10:51 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  So what was the attendance, and how many fans actually traveled, as opposed to locals who bought discount tickets?

Before we get our panties all wadded up, we should get a handle on that. Did the schools even sell out their allotment, or did they turn over a good portion to local vendors to unload? I am pretty sure only a portion of the crowd actually traveled from Idaho and Massachusetts. The hotels may have barely noticed.

I don't have an official total but the Bowl holds 92,000 and from game time pictures of the stadium they might have had 20,000 or fewer and mostly dressed in Orange and Blue.

The number coming from Idaho was 8-10k. That is a lot of money flushed.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Add in the 1000 from BC

Hot Take:. Time to kill this POS Bowl. Send it to a city like Myrtle Beach, Norfolk or St Pete.

Scale of stadium is important

Seems Strong

BC grads are twice as smart as us...so 500 Superfans equals 1000 regular fans

(12-27-2018 05:31 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(12-27-2018 01:20 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  

(12-27-2018 11:54 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(12-26-2018 11:45 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  

(12-26-2018 11:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I don't have an official total but the Bowl holds 92,000 and from game time pictures of the stadium they might have had 20,000 or fewer and mostly dressed in Orange and Blue.

The number coming from Idaho was 8-10k. That is a lot of money flushed.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Add in the 1000 from BC

Hot Take:. Time to kill this POS Bowl. Send it to a city like Myrtle Beach, Norfolk or St Pete.

Scale of stadium is important

Seems Strong

BC grads are twice as smart as us...so 500 Superfans equals 1000 regular fans

Have to appreciate the honesty of Syracuse fans.

According to KDFW (Fox 4), Boston College and Boise State are giving refunds and Boise estimates about $25k on their end. ESPN is giving free tickets to those affected for a game of their choice.

The city of Dallas still has to estimate how much money they lost on concessions. I’d say move the bowl to Austin or have San Antonio host another game. I don’t know if Corpus Christi and the Rio Grande Valley have any stadiums that could host a bowl game. DFW is saturated with four bowls and the FCS championship.

(12-27-2018 07:26 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  According to KDFW (Fox 4), Boston College and Boise State are giving refunds and Boise estimates about $25k on their end. ESPN is giving free tickets to those affected for a game of their choice.

The city of Dallas still has to estimate how much money they lost on concessions. I’d say move the bowl to Austin or have San Antonio host another game. I don’t know if Corpus Christi and the Rio Grande Valley have any stadiums that could host a bowl game. DFW is saturated with four bowls and the FCS championship.

San Antonio would work...but it might have to move pre Christmas. Texas St has a very suitable stadium and it could be held post Christmas. San Marcos is 35 mins to Austin's Airport and 45 mins to San Antonio's Airport. Lots to do in the area. The stadium seats about 30K so it would be easy to fill.

(12-27-2018 07:47 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(12-27-2018 07:26 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  According to KDFW (Fox 4), Boston College and Boise State are giving refunds and Boise estimates about $25k on their end. ESPN is giving free tickets to those affected for a game of their choice.

The city of Dallas still has to estimate how much money they lost on concessions. I’d say move the bowl to Austin or have San Antonio host another game. I don’t know if Corpus Christi and the Rio Grande Valley have any stadiums that could host a bowl game. DFW is saturated with four bowls and the FCS championship.

San Antonio would work...but it might have to move pre Christmas. Texas St has a very suitable stadium and it could be held post Christmas. San Marcos is 35 mins to Austin's Airport and 45 mins to San Antonio's Airport. Lots to do in the area. The stadium seats about 30K so it would be easy to fill.

San Marcos would work too. The problem with Austin and San Marcos is that they got the same weather Dallas got yesterday. So more than likely the outcome would’ve been the same. The Alamodome is weather proof but as you said, it’d have to pre Christmas. San Antonio is a tourist destination with nicer weather than Dallas. I love living in Dallas but it’s not a tourist destination. You come here for two reasons, business or family/friends.

(12-27-2018 07:26 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  According to KDFW (Fox 4), Boston College and Boise State are giving refunds and Boise estimates about $25k on their end. ESPN is giving free tickets to those affected for a game of their choice.

The city of Dallas still has to estimate how much money they lost on concessions. I’d say move the bowl to Austin or have San Antonio host another game. I don’t know if Corpus Christi and the Rio Grande Valley have any stadiums that could host a bowl game. DFW is saturated with four bowls and the FCS championship.

Corpus only has a baseball field that holds 7k.
Kingsville A&M has a 15k stadium.

Corpus would be a nice bowl site. Even South Padre Island.