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Tre Scott absolutely has NBA potential as a 3-and-D role player. Look at what Clark does on O for the Rockets, shoot threes and rebound. Scott is a better athlete, looks more comfortable on the perimeter and has a good looking shot. He's not there yet, but he has two years and the main area where he is behind Clark is the mental game. Playing time should help Scott get better mentally and help him get more consistent.

Sounds like Broome's playing time might be in trouble. Cronin basically said post-game that analytically we aren't athletic enough with Justin/Broome and Cumberland all at the floor at the same time. Broome might be limited to a backup role, playing when Logan is in or as a sub for Cumberland.

Also I know people will complain about Cronin talking D in the post-game presser. But the very first thing Cronin said was how dissapointted he was with how inept and disorganized our offense was vs Ohio State.

(11-13-2018 09:26 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I don't see how we get 20 wins.

our front court, our ENTIRE front court is a collection of stiffs, esp. offensively. JUST AWFUL.

Want to talk backcourt- Broom sucks. Jenifer sucks worse. This team sucks.

And yet we still love to come back to watch the next game. 😎

(11-13-2018 07:47 PM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 07:45 PM)jarr Wrote:  What does Mick see in Jennifer? I really dont get what he offers. Having a lineup with Nsoseme, Brooks, Jennifer, William's, and Moore out there is a joke. I dont think they could score against an empty gym.

He defends, he doesn’t turn the ball over, and he’s actually capable of making an open jump shot. Which is extremely valuable on this team.

(11-13-2018 08:24 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Really encouraging from uc. Not just winning with athleticism and muscle against lesser team. Tre hitting the kind of shots we need him to hit. Williams doing things we need him to do.

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(11-13-2018 10:23 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 10:14 PM)crex043 Wrote:  When did we decide to tolerate posters calling our student-athletes some of the names I've seen used on this thread and others? Stiffs, worthless, garbage, etc? Rip the coach all you want, but we're talking about 18-22 year olds that don't get paid to do what they do. Not a good look for many of you.

only speaking for myself...but if I say this is a team of stiffs or they are offensively stiffs etc., it is a reference to their abilities on the court or on the field etc.. Not a comment about them personally or as people. I think if one gets a full ride free education to play a sport, one is subject to criticism of ones game/ability.

But why do you Continue To Watch a program with stiffs?

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For those of you with Fioptics the Alternate FSOH channed is 600 or 601. It is with ESPNU and CBSSN in the low 600s. I watched the game last night. Fist half the production was terrible and finally they fixed it at halftime and it was much better. You may have to have the sports package to get the alternate channel.

(11-13-2018 09:20 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 09:06 PM)UCinNKY Wrote:  The thing with Moore is, he has a bad body, is not an athlete-dude is a waste of a scholarship. He's Field Williams, except Field Williams was actually a really good player.

I really don't know what you are talking about. He's 6'5", 200lbs and moves well enough at that size to defend the perimeter. He's playing poorly right now and really needs to figure out his shot but that doesn't mean you have to write him off completely and then throw out a critique that doesn't even make sense.

For me, bad body kind of implies that he has no idea how to use it. Hes 6'5 but cant jump. Hes 200 lbs, but the slightest touch he acts like he was just hit by a truck. Its like he tries to find contact rather than play basketball. His box outs he completely stops going after the ball, hes only focused on his man, and he tries to get completely under him(what he does is a foul btw, he got called for it last game and should have got called again last night)

(11-14-2018 04:47 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 10:14 PM)crex043 Wrote:  When did we decide to tolerate posters calling our student-athletes some of the names I've seen used on this thread and others? Stiffs, worthless, garbage, etc? Rip the coach all you want, but we're talking about 18-22 year olds that don't get paid to do what they do. Not a good look for many of you.

It's social media, they think they have the right to say whatever they want without consequence.

??? lol k

Its a public forum whose purpose is to provide each person with the mouthpiece to provide his/her opinion. Sometimes other people's opinions don't line up with your own. You can either discuss the difference or ignore.

I happen to think Justin jenifer is a garbage point guard. If you think otherwise, I'd love to hear why.

I also think this team's frontcourt is a collection of offensive stiffs. Again, if you think otherwise, please speak up and demonstrate you disagree.

It's way to early to tell, judgement should be reserved for January when there are couple months worth of games under their belts. When you have a lot of guys who have not played a lot of minutes generally some step forward and some do not. Time will tell. Williams clearly looks like he wants to step forward at this point, and i think Scott does as well. After 2 months worth of games, they will have been through enough minutes that 'settling" down won't be an issue. That's one thing that experience does as when you realize they are going to have to run you out there, eventually you settle down.

(11-14-2018 08:37 AM)dsquare Wrote:  It's way to early to tell, judgement should be reserved for January when there are couple months worth of games under their belts. When you have a lot of guys who have not played a lot of minutes generally some step forward and some do not. Time will tell. Williams clearly looks like he wants to step forward at this point, and i think Scott does as well. After 2 months worth of games, they will have been through enough minutes that 'settling" down won't be an issue. That's one thing that experience does as when you realize they are going to have to run you out there, eventually you settle down.

I think for UC to do anything Williams is going to have to really step up along with Logan Johnson coming of age earlier than would normally be asked of him. But its a long year anytime your pg is basically learning his chops. I don't see either Jenifer or Broom being able to run the point effectively against any team with a pulse.

Williams could get better as the season goes on, and surely Logan Johnson will only get better, so thats a positive.

the thing that is glaring to me is our front court...Brooks/Scott/Nsoseme: none of these guys are young. None of them have an ounce of offensive ability. I don't see what they are going to give us this year aside from defense and even that right now is shaky at best. This is a major area of concern, especially given the question marks in the backcourt. If our sf/sg/pg where all studs, it wouldn't be as glaring but they aren't.

(11-14-2018 08:44 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(11-14-2018 08:37 AM)dsquare Wrote:  It's way to early to tell, judgement should be reserved for January when there are couple months worth of games under their belts. When you have a lot of guys who have not played a lot of minutes generally some step forward and some do not. Time will tell. Williams clearly looks like he wants to step forward at this point, and i think Scott does as well. After 2 months worth of games, they will have been through enough minutes that 'settling" down won't be an issue. That's one thing that experience does as when you realize they are going to have to run you out there, eventually you settle down.

I think for UC to do anything Williams is going to have to really step up along with Logan Johnson coming of age earlier than would normally be asked of him. But its a long year anytime your pg is basically learning his chops. I don't see either Jenifer or Broom being able to run the point effectively against any team with a pulse.

Williams could get better as the season goes on, and surely Logan Johnson will only get better, so thats a positive.

the thing that is glaring to me is our front court...Brooks/Scott/Nsoseme: none of these guys are young. None of them have an ounce of offensive ability. I don't see what they are going to give us this year aside from defense and even that right now is shaky at best. This is a major area of concern, especially given the question marks in the backcourt. If our sf/sg/pg where all studs, it wouldn't be as glaring but they aren't.

Until he hits the inevitable freshman wall

(11-13-2018 09:05 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 09:02 PM)bearcatfan Wrote:  I have been critical of Jenifer but he actually played pretty well tonight.

Broome looks lost.

Yeah. shocking that he would lose confidence after being yanked every game for every little mistake. #Mickball

This. It's clearly gotten to him. I think the way he was handled last year has led to this possible disaster.

(11-14-2018 09:51 AM)Marcus Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 09:05 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 09:02 PM)bearcatfan Wrote:  I have been critical of Jenifer but he actually played pretty well tonight.

Broome looks lost.

Yeah. shocking that he would lose confidence after being yanked every game for every little mistake. #Mickball

This. It's clearly gotten to him. I think the way he was handled last year has led to this possible disaster.

Frankly I put a lot more of this on Cane than Mick. Sitting the stands it is not just the numbers...he looks lost on both ends. He never seems like he understands where to be or how to play team offense/defense. His play has easily been the most disappointing part of the season so far. They absolutely need his offensive talent, but with how lost he seems on both ends he has been unplayable.

(11-14-2018 09:54 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(11-14-2018 09:51 AM)Marcus Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 09:05 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 09:02 PM)bearcatfan Wrote:  I have been critical of Jenifer but he actually played pretty well tonight.

Broome looks lost.

Yeah. shocking that he would lose confidence after being yanked every game for every little mistake. #Mickball

This. It's clearly gotten to him. I think the way he was handled last year has led to this possible disaster.

Frankly I put a lot more of this on Cane than Mick. Sitting the stands it is not just the numbers...he looks lost on both ends. He never seems like he understands where to be or how to play team offense/defense. His play has easily been the most disappointing part of the season so far. They absolutely need his offensive talent, but with how lost he seems on both ends he has been unplayable.

There's no question he looks completely lost and totally hesitant out there. And I agree they desperately need him to come around because this team isn't doing anything with Jarron being the only offensive threat on the team.

(11-14-2018 08:37 AM)dsquare Wrote:  It's way to early to tell, judgement should be reserved for January when there are couple months worth of games under their belts. When you have a lot of guys who have not played a lot of minutes generally some step forward and some do not. Time will tell. Williams clearly looks like he wants to step forward at this point, and i think Scott does as well. After 2 months worth of games, they will have been through enough minutes that 'settling" down won't be an issue. That's one thing that experience does as when you realize they are going to have to run you out there, eventually you settle down.

I think this is a pretty reasonable argument. If you go back to November/December outcomes in college basketball they often have little relationship to February/March results.

I was only able to see the second half. It's hard not to be excited about Logan and it seems to me he needs to be on the floor 25-30 minutes NOW. Williams looks like a player as well and makes the team more athletic. He appears capable of being a scorer. Minutes for those two will have to come at the expense of Broome and JJ and those guys could prove to be reliable senior reserves off the bench. But to me, the best players have to start, regardless of class year.

Cronin's history suggests he will follow his formula to the NCAA, or at least to the bubble this year. There's enough talent here to win a bunch in what appears so far to be a weak AAC and the losses will come against tournament quality teams from the P5. Even in losing those, the RPI boost will push this team up toward the bubble as the year rolls on.

Whether that outcome is satisfying for most fans is the bigger question. To me, the greatest risk for UC basketball at this point is fan apathy. Simply stated, that "we are what we are" at this point in the program's history and we shouldn't expect wins against quality opponents or a deep tournament run.

(11-14-2018 08:44 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  [quote='dsquare' pid='15663420' dateline='1542202660']

the thing that is glaring to me is our front court...Brooks/Scott/Nsoseme: none of these guys are young. None of them have an ounce of offensive ability. I don't see what they are going to give us this year aside from defense and even that right now is shaky at best.

Seriously? There are people that still tow the "Tre can't play" line?

Tre was 6 for 6 in FG's last night. From all over the court. He's even shown he can hit threes, as Gary learned to do effectively last year. Tre has had the ability to hit jumpers out to 15' for two years - I know I saw it. As he's said in interviews this year, it wasn't his role to be assertive and score the ball. He's also pivotal to their full court pressure in a way Gary/Kyle couldn't be. Tre is faster and plays "longer" in the mid court area.

Eliel was 2/3 on FG's with a broken finger. He doesn't have a face the basket game, but he cleans up garbage pretty effectively. And he can defend & rebound. Both Nsoseme and Scott blocked and altered shots last night. Nsoseme went for 5pts 4boards, a block and a steal in 13 minutes. That extrapolates pretty well given more minutes (*cough* brooks').

Brooks...another story. He reminds me more of the old UC PF/Centers that seemed to make about 25% at the rim. Brooks also gambles on defense and is often out of position. And he fouls. A lot. Scott and Eliel combined for one foul last night.

I'm not arguing this team is good - they aren't. Broom is in some kind of terrible headspace, Moore forgot how to shoot, JJ can't score against more athletic teams that can close out on his jumper, Brooks went to the Adam H layup camp, and Fredricks has looked completely lost out there. Diarra has some physical gifts but looks like a 6 year project in a five year system. With that amount of weakness in the rotation, best case this is a bubble team.

But open your eyes on Tre. He's a player.

(11-14-2018 10:21 AM)EffinBJ Wrote:  

(11-14-2018 08:44 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  [quote='dsquare' pid='15663420' dateline='1542202660']

the thing that is glaring to me is our front court...Brooks/Scott/Nsoseme: none of these guys are young. None of them have an ounce of offensive ability. I don't see what they are going to give us this year aside from defense and even that right now is shaky at best.

Seriously? There are people that still tow the "Tre can't play" line?

Tre was 6 for 6 in FG's last night. From all over the court. He's even shown he can hit threes, as Gary learned to do effectively last year. Tre has had the ability to hit jumpers out to 15' for two years - I know I saw it. As he's said in interviews this year, it wasn't his role to be assertive and score the ball. He's also pivotal to their full court pressure in a way Gary/Kyle couldn't be. Tre is faster and plays "longer" in the mid court area.

Eliel was 2/3 on FG's with a broken finger. He doesn't have a face the basket game, but he cleans up garbage pretty effectively. And he can defend & rebound. Both Nsoseme and Scott blocked and altered shots last night. Nsoseme went for 5pts 4boards, a block and a steal in 13 minutes. That extrapolates pretty well given more minutes (*cough* brooks').

Brooks...another story. He reminds me more of the old UC PF/Centers that seemed to make about 25% at the rim. Brooks also gambles on defense and is often out of position. And he fouls. A lot. Scott and Eliel combined for one foul last night.

I'm not arguing this team is good - they aren't. Broom is in some kind of terrible headspace, Moore forgot how to shoot, JJ can't score against more athletic teams that can close out on his jumper, Brooks went to the Adam H layup camp, and Fredricks has looked completely lost out there. Diarra has some physical gifts but looks like a 6 year project in a five year system. With that amount of weakness in the rotation, best case this is a bubble team.

But open your eyes on Tre. He's a player.

Ya, this wasn't the time to criticize Tre. He can be pretty good.

Tre is the kind of guy I wish didn't have to be as good as we need him to be. Last night was encouraging. We need his offense night after night.

The big guys for the most part all looked good last night, especially Scott. He has a good form on his shot (coming from an armchair basketball coach).

Brooks just frustrates me with his apparent lack of an ability to jump. But he played very hard and had the most rebounds (7 - all defensive) for UC.

The hardest guy to figure out is Brooks. He just doesn't play with the mean streak you need to at his size. He shows he can hit the half hook, but he only attempts it a couple times a game. Osu really didn't have a kid big enough to stop him, yet his attempts are very small. There are some issues getting him the ball, but he has to setup and demand it. He has skills, but he is a prime example of a guy not used to being relied upon to contribute scoring wise, and he has to change that perspective. He may miss a lot early and we'll take some lumps, but after a month or two of that, he should see some progress. You cannot play tentative in the paint unless your 7'7 but you still have to catch it.

(11-13-2018 10:14 PM)crex043 Wrote:  When did we decide to tolerate posters calling our student-athletes some of the names I've seen used on this thread and others? Stiffs, worthless, garbage, etc? Rip the coach all you want, but we're talking about 18-22 year olds that don't get paid to do what they do. Not a good look for many of you.

If there is one thing I've learned about the internet, it's that message boards are essentially places for grown adults to go back to throwing temper tantrums like they did when they were 4. And we all do it, myself included, so I'm not passing judgement.

I have said a few times, I like Tre. It's just that Cronin has him in a position where he is expecting him to carry our post offense, and that isnt Tre. He has some positives to his game though that would work better complimenting someone else.

The starting lineup should be:

LJ
JC
KW
Frederick's
Scott

Those are probably our best 5 and in 2018 it's all about playing your 5 best players instead of plugging in positions.

JJ has always been a backup PG because of his limitations, I dont buy that his defense is really that big of a deal like Cronin claims, if we are playing a higher quality opponent. Cane has definitely been a disappointment, however I still dont think he has been utilized correctly.