(10-27-2018 09:15 AM)Pony94 Wrote:  This thread was more fun when the title was should we add Amy

She's not going anywhere without Jenny and Stacy and their endowments and academic rankings aren't nearly good enough.

(10-27-2018 09:15 AM)Pony94 Wrote:  This thread was more fun when the title was should we add Amy

In Will Arnett's case, Amy was subtracted.

Doubt The American would be seeking that Amy or the Fat one.

Many here ignore the fact that the AAC was force into this G crap.

Apperently it needs to be reminded over over the strength of the AAC and where it stands among all FBS conferences.

1. SEC
2. B1G
3. ACC
4. PAC
5. B12

6. AAC



7. The
8. RE
9. S
10. T


Sorry but I don't see Army improving the AAC muchless compete in it.

(10-27-2018 09:10 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Too many are acting like it’s the AAC’s choice. If Army wanted to join, the AAC would invite them 100% guaranteed - it’s not even a debate. Conference realignment is about prestige and money, which is what Army brings to the table much more than any other realistic option for a G5 conference. The reason why Army isn’t in the AAC is because Army wants to be independent. Asking whether a G5 league should add Army (or BYU) is like asking whether a P5 league should add Notre Dame: of course they should add them, but the league isn’t the one with the power. The question should be, “Should Army give up independence to join the AAC?” - the phrasing of that question accurately portrays the party that has the control and power here.

Army scheduled 2 FCS games (Lafayette, Colgate) so is independence really optimal over AAC with 3 ready-made regional rivals and games in FL & TX?

(10-28-2018 05:45 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(10-27-2018 09:10 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Too many are acting like it’s the AAC’s choice. If Army wanted to join, the AAC would invite them 100% guaranteed - it’s not even a debate. Conference realignment is about prestige and money, which is what Army brings to the table much more than any other realistic option for a G5 conference. The reason why Army isn’t in the AAC is because Army wants to be independent. Asking whether a G5 league should add Army (or BYU) is like asking whether a P5 league should add Notre Dame: of course they should add them, but the league isn’t the one with the power. The question should be, “Should Army give up independence to join the AAC?” - the phrasing of that question accurately portrays the party that has the control and power here.

Army scheduled 2 FCS games (Lafayette, Colgate) so is independence really optimal over AAC with 3 ready-made regional rivals and games in FL & TX?

Hahaha... Nevermind a hand size object a barrel should be sufficient enough... Love it

(10-27-2018 09:10 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Too many are acting like it’s the AAC’s choice. If Army wanted to join, the AAC would invite them 100% guaranteed - it’s not even a debate. Conference realignment is about prestige and money, which is what Army brings to the table much more than any other realistic option for a G5 conference. The reason why Army isn’t in the AAC is because Army wants to be independent. Asking whether a G5 league should add Army (or BYU) is like asking whether a P5 league should add Notre Dame: of course they should add them, but the league isn’t the one with the power. The question should be, “Should Army give up independence to join the AAC?” - the phrasing of that question accurately portrays the party that has the control and power here.

Agree, Army had a standing invite to AAC. That said at the end of the day, I really think it would be bad for both Army and the AAC. Army would lose more, and be worth less.

Its always been that Army wasn't interested. AAC invited Army when they invited Navy. Army declined.

(10-27-2018 09:10 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Too many are acting like it’s the AAC’s choice. If Army wanted to join, the AAC would invite them 100% guaranteed - it’s not even a debate. Conference realignment is about prestige and money, which is what Army brings to the table much more than any other realistic option for a G5 conference. The reason why Army isn’t in the AAC is because Army wants to be independent. Asking whether a G5 league should add Army (or BYU) is like asking whether a P5 league should add Notre Dame: of course they should add them, but the league isn’t the one with the power. The question should be, “Should Army give up independence to join the AAC?” - the phrasing of that question accurately portrays the party that has the control and power here.

All that being said, adding Army would just make the AAC that much weaker (especially if you add a 14th team for scheduling purposes). The fact is, there is no school the AAC could add (who would agree to join) that would make the league stronger in football. The only thing that would make the AAC stronger is finding a way to shed a few bottom feeders. And I just don't see that happening.

Do the full monty, add Army and Air Force.

IIRC, the Navy-Army game is excluded from Navy's contract with the AAC. So even if Army joined, there is no reason to think the Navy-Army game would fall under the AAC contract.

(10-28-2018 05:45 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(10-27-2018 09:10 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Too many are acting like it’s the AAC’s choice. If Army wanted to join, the AAC would invite them 100% guaranteed - it’s not even a debate. Conference realignment is about prestige and money, which is what Army brings to the table much more than any other realistic option for a G5 conference. The reason why Army isn’t in the AAC is because Army wants to be independent. Asking whether a G5 league should add Army (or BYU) is like asking whether a P5 league should add Notre Dame: of course they should add them, but the league isn’t the one with the power. The question should be, “Should Army give up independence to join the AAC?” - the phrasing of that question accurately portrays the party that has the control and power here.

Army scheduled 2 FCS games (Lafayette, Colgate) so is independence really optimal over AAC with 3 ready-made regional rivals and games in FL & TX?

Army needs the option/exemption for FCS games. As was indicated earlier they have size restrictions as requirements....

As a practical matter how would Army-Navy work as a conference game? A lot of the prestige, and CBS TV money, comes from the fact that it is the only real FBS game played the weekend after the conference championship games. They would likely refuse to play each other prior to the second Saturday in December lest they lose the CBS money, so the only way that could work is if it is scheduled as a non-conference game. And the only way to prevent them from meeting in the regular season would be to put them in different divisions and make a rule where they could never play as cross-division rivals. Even then, if they won their divisions you’d ruin the prestige of the traditional game by having them play for a conference title the week before and then having a rematch the following week. Plus, in that scenario the the first game’s winner could lose the second time around after having secured the G5 access spot by winning the AAC, which would not be a good look for the G5. If they want to join a conference Army might better served by throwing in its lot with the eastern teams from the CUSA plus UMass, Liberty, and UConn, if they want to rejoin the Big East, in the event the Sun Belt and CUSA reconfigure into more regionally based leagues.

(10-30-2018 10:15 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  As a practical matter how would Army-Navy work as a conference game? A lot of the prestige, and CBS TV money, comes from the fact that it is the only real FBS game played the weekend after the conference championship games. They would likely refuse to play each other prior to the second Saturday in December lest they lose the CBS money, so the only way that could work is if it is scheduled as a non-conference game. And the only way to prevent them from meeting in the regular season would be to put them in different divisions and make a rule where they could never play as cross-division rivals. Even then, if they won their divisions you’d ruin the prestige of the traditional game by having them play for a conference title the week before and then having a rematch the following week. Plus, in that scenario the the first game’s winner could lose the second time around after having secured the G5 access spot by winning the AAC, which would not be a good look for the G5. If they want to join a conference Army might better served by throwing in its lot with the eastern teams from the CUSA plus UMass, Liberty, and UConn, if they want to rejoin the Big East, in the event the Sun Belt and CUSA reconfigure into more regionally based leagues.

Thats the way I'd do it--but with a twist. I'd revise the TV deals so that IF Army and Navy ever meet in the CCG---the CCG is moved to the weekend AFTER Championship Saturday (the traditional Army-Navy game weekend) and is NOT part of the AAC TV deal. It's simply the traditional Army-Navy game, played at whatever neutral site that was already planned. The game would fall under the Army-Navy contract. The only difference from the normal Army-Navy game is the winner gets to claim the AAC Championship. Whoever owns the AAC rights simply doesnt get a CCG that year (and they know it going in so there is no penalty). Id stick the clause in the next TV deal so its there if Army ever decides to join.

(10-28-2018 05:23 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  Many here ignore the fact that the AAC was force into this G crap.

Easy to ignore something that never happened. The leftovers of the old Big East were forced out of the AQ ranks when they became the A5, but nobody forced them to join the Go5. They could have negotiated independently. Wouldn't have landed an NY6 spot on their own ... but they COULD have negotiated solo if they preferred, eg, BYU's deal to the Go5 deal. The remaining four would happily have the Access Bowl spot for this "Go4" some AAC supporters like to imagine.

The fictitious Go4 would serve the same "see, there's access, this arrangement is NOT restraint of trade!!!" job that the Go5 plays if the AAC decided to bolt from the group, so it would be no skin off the nose of the A5.1.

At this point, I wonder if the Big XII were to break up, could "the right group" of schools combine to fill in and take over that fifth power spot. The fabled "best of the rest" conference idea. Because, apparently, the Big East/AAC didn't get it right with theirs. I kind of assumed both Army and Navy in that football conference would certainly strengthen that case.

As is, there's nothing Army gets out of the AAC as it is. It benefits the conference more than them, as I believe it also does for Navy, since, at the time when Navy agreed to join the Big East, there was a spot in the BCS, and that spot was said to serve as an added bonus for recruiting. But, Army is simply different. Quite honestly, I think they'd be perfectly content playing a consistent schedule of the Ivy's and Ivy-lite's of FBS and FCS with Navy and Air Force in there if it didn't make them completely irrelevant in both divisions; a novelty program. That nobody would want to play for.

(10-30-2018 11:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 10:15 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  As a practical matter how would Army-Navy work as a conference game? A lot of the prestige, and CBS TV money, comes from the fact that it is the only real FBS game played the weekend after the conference championship games. They would likely refuse to play each other prior to the second Saturday in December lest they lose the CBS money, so the only way that could work is if it is scheduled as a non-conference game. And the only way to prevent them from meeting in the regular season would be to put them in different divisions and make a rule where they could never play as cross-division rivals. Even then, if they won their divisions you’d ruin the prestige of the traditional game by having them play for a conference title the week before and then having a rematch the following week. Plus, in that scenario the the first game’s winner could lose the second time around after having secured the G5 access spot by winning the AAC, which would not be a good look for the G5. If they want to join a conference Army might better served by throwing in its lot with the eastern teams from the CUSA plus UMass, Liberty, and UConn, if they want to rejoin the Big East, in the event the Sun Belt and CUSA reconfigure into more regionally based leagues.

Thats the way I'd do it--but with a twist. I'd revise the TV deals so that IF Army and Navy ever meet in the CCG---the CCG is moved to the weekend AFTER Championship Saturday (the traditional Army-Navy game weekend) and is NOT part of the AAC TV deal. It's simply the traditional Army-Navy game, played at whatever neutral site that was already planned. The game would fall under the Army-Navy contract. The only difference from the normal Army-Navy game is the winner gets to claim the AAC Championship. Whoever owns the AAC rights simply doesnt get a CCG that year (and they know it going in so there is no penalty). Id stick the clause in the next TV deal so its there if Army ever decides to join.

That is an interesting idea, I and I recall that a few years back the Playoff Committee said that if Navy had won the AAC Title that they would hold off until the next week to select the G5 team (it didn't end up happening), but that seems like a lot of logistical and financial hurdles to overcome. I doubt the other AAC teams, or ESPN, would be willing to cancel the scheduled conference title game, and the money that comes with it, in favor of a de-facto title game airing a week later and on CBS, and where all of the money goes only to Army and Navy. It would also deprive the higher ranked team from hosting the game on campus, and it would potentially screw up the seeding for all other AAC teams getting into bowl games, and potentially every other team in the country, if the outcome of the Army-Navy game would require picking the playoff and the rest of the bowl on the second weekend of December...

(10-30-2018 11:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 10:15 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  As a practical matter how would Army-Navy work as a conference game? A lot of the prestige, and CBS TV money, comes from the fact that it is the only real FBS game played the weekend after the conference championship games. They would likely refuse to play each other prior to the second Saturday in December lest they lose the CBS money, so the only way that could work is if it is scheduled as a non-conference game. And the only way to prevent them from meeting in the regular season would be to put them in different divisions and make a rule where they could never play as cross-division rivals. Even then, if they won their divisions you’d ruin the prestige of the traditional game by having them play for a conference title the week before and then having a rematch the following week. Plus, in that scenario the the first game’s winner could lose the second time around after having secured the G5 access spot by winning the AAC, which would not be a good look for the G5. If they want to join a conference Army might better served by throwing in its lot with the eastern teams from the CUSA plus UMass, Liberty, and UConn, if they want to rejoin the Big East, in the event the Sun Belt and CUSA reconfigure into more regionally based leagues.

Thats the way I'd do it--but with a twist. I'd revise the TV deals so that IF Army and Navy ever meet in the CCG---the CCG is moved to the weekend AFTER Championship Saturday (the traditional Army-Navy game weekend) and is NOT part of the AAC TV deal. It's simply the traditional Army-Navy game, played at whatever neutral site that was already planned. The game would fall under the Army-Navy contract. The only difference from the normal Army-Navy game is the winner gets to claim the AAC Championship. Whoever owns the AAC rights simply doesnt get a CCG that year (and they know it going in so there is no penalty). Id stick the clause in the next TV deal so its there if Army ever decides to join.

That seems like the most obvious choice, though I think the rightsholder would still need some compensation for losing a conference title game on short notice, whether it's monetary or in future scheduling considerations. Especially since anything they replaced it with on championship weekend would have far fewer viewers and command far lesser ad rates.

(10-31-2018 12:29 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 11:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 10:15 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  As a practical matter how would Army-Navy work as a conference game? A lot of the prestige, and CBS TV money, comes from the fact that it is the only real FBS game played the weekend after the conference championship games. They would likely refuse to play each other prior to the second Saturday in December lest they lose the CBS money, so the only way that could work is if it is scheduled as a non-conference game. And the only way to prevent them from meeting in the regular season would be to put them in different divisions and make a rule where they could never play as cross-division rivals. Even then, if they won their divisions you’d ruin the prestige of the traditional game by having them play for a conference title the week before and then having a rematch the following week. Plus, in that scenario the the first game’s winner could lose the second time around after having secured the G5 access spot by winning the AAC, which would not be a good look for the G5. If they want to join a conference Army might better served by throwing in its lot with the eastern teams from the CUSA plus UMass, Liberty, and UConn, if they want to rejoin the Big East, in the event the Sun Belt and CUSA reconfigure into more regionally based leagues.

Thats the way I'd do it--but with a twist. I'd revise the TV deals so that IF Army and Navy ever meet in the CCG---the CCG is moved to the weekend AFTER Championship Saturday (the traditional Army-Navy game weekend) and is NOT part of the AAC TV deal. It's simply the traditional Army-Navy game, played at whatever neutral site that was already planned. The game would fall under the Army-Navy contract. The only difference from the normal Army-Navy game is the winner gets to claim the AAC Championship. Whoever owns the AAC rights simply doesnt get a CCG that year (and they know it going in so there is no penalty). Id stick the clause in the next TV deal so its there if Army ever decides to join.

That seems like the most obvious choice, though I think the rightsholder would still need some compensation for losing a conference title game on short notice, whether it's monetary or in future scheduling considerations. Especially since anything they replaced it with on championship weekend would have far fewer viewers and command far lesser ad rates.

Like I said, I'd get that clause done up front. That said, you can probably still get the deal done on the back end as well because the likelihood of both Army and Navy winning their divisions in any given year is pretty low--but the weekley payoff of getting those Army games (and half of the Commanders Cup games) more than makes up for it over the course of each season. At that point, if the AAC were to approach Air Force and one other MW team---the AAC could get all 3 academies into the fold. That would give both the conference and the rights holder a fantastic identity to sell the "American Conference" with. Great marketing tag line---the "P6 home of the academies" would give the spread out mish-mash AAC conference a traditional identity people could easily recognize and remember. Thats something the conference has always lacked.

(10-31-2018 12:50 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-31-2018 12:29 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 11:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 10:15 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  As a practical matter how would Army-Navy work as a conference game? A lot of the prestige, and CBS TV money, comes from the fact that it is the only real FBS game played the weekend after the conference championship games. They would likely refuse to play each other prior to the second Saturday in December lest they lose the CBS money, so the only way that could work is if it is scheduled as a non-conference game. And the only way to prevent them from meeting in the regular season would be to put them in different divisions and make a rule where they could never play as cross-division rivals. Even then, if they won their divisions you’d ruin the prestige of the traditional game by having them play for a conference title the week before and then having a rematch the following week. Plus, in that scenario the the first game’s winner could lose the second time around after having secured the G5 access spot by winning the AAC, which would not be a good look for the G5. If they want to join a conference Army might better served by throwing in its lot with the eastern teams from the CUSA plus UMass, Liberty, and UConn, if they want to rejoin the Big East, in the event the Sun Belt and CUSA reconfigure into more regionally based leagues.

Thats the way I'd do it--but with a twist. I'd revise the TV deals so that IF Army and Navy ever meet in the CCG---the CCG is moved to the weekend AFTER Championship Saturday (the traditional Army-Navy game weekend) and is NOT part of the AAC TV deal. It's simply the traditional Army-Navy game, played at whatever neutral site that was already planned. The game would fall under the Army-Navy contract. The only difference from the normal Army-Navy game is the winner gets to claim the AAC Championship. Whoever owns the AAC rights simply doesnt get a CCG that year (and they know it going in so there is no penalty). Id stick the clause in the next TV deal so its there if Army ever decides to join.

That seems like the most obvious choice, though I think the rightsholder would still need some compensation for losing a conference title game on short notice, whether it's monetary or in future scheduling considerations. Especially since anything they replaced it with on championship weekend would have far fewer viewers and command far lesser ad rates.

Like I said, I'd get that clause done up front. That said, you can probably still get the deal done on the back end as well because the likelihood of both Army and Navy winning their divisions in any given year is pretty low--but the weekley payoff of getting those Army games (and half of the Commanders Cup games) more than makes up for it over the course of each season. At that point, if the AAC were to approach Air Force and one other MW team---the AAC could get all 3 academies into the fold. That would give both the conference and the rights holder a fantastic identity to sell the "American Conference" with. Great marketing tag line---the "P6 home of the academies" would give the spread out mish-mash AAC conference a traditional identity people could easily recognize and remember. Thats something the conference has always lacked.

The hangup for the rightsowner would be how to replace the game if it goes to CBS as the Army-Navy game? Let's say for the sake of simplicity that ESPN retains AAC rights. This year, the AAC title game is on ABC at 3:30 p.m. Saturday. The only game ESPN has this weekend in a similar time slot that it can move there is the SWAC game from ESPNU at 4:30 (in theory, the ACC could slide into that spot from its noon start or the MAC from its Friday night ESPN2 start, but that would be more difficult). I guess they could also move a college basketball or NBA game into that slot but it breaks up their football tripleheader.

You may be right that Army's addition to the conference improves the value of the AAC enough to a rightsholder that they can weather the potential loss of an AAC title game to Army-Navy. But they'd probably make sure to have their contingency plan well in place when they sign the deal (it's a lot easier if it's ESPN/ABC, since they have a lot more content at their disposal and can move an ESPN game to ABC, and ESPN game to ESPN2 and an ESPNU/SEC game to ESPN2 if need be).

Now watch Army and Navy dominate their divisions and keep the AAC title game from its rightholders four years in a row.