(08-10-2018 11:28 AM)BobL Wrote:  Sounds great on the surface but I would like to see more detailed long term analysis.
These legal immigrants that collect "welfare" are typically doing the low paying, menial jobs that no American wants to do.

So what happens if that "welfare" is no longer available to them:

1) They become poorer, leading to a host of socioeconomic issues that would be bad overall for our society.
2) They go back to their home country, which means there is no one to do those jobs. What are the short term and long term effects on the economy?

Immigration reform is required but it needs to be well thought out which this does not appear to be.

Do potential legal immigrants not have to supply proof of income before being granted legal status? Not directed at you per say, does anybody know?

(08-10-2018 11:33 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-10-2018 11:28 AM)BobL Wrote:  Sounds great on the surface but I would like to see more detailed long term analysis.
These legal immigrants that collect "welfare" are typically doing the low paying, menial jobs that no American wants to do.

So what happens if that "welfare" is no longer available to them:

1) They become poorer, leading to a host of socioeconomic issues that would be bad overall for our society.
2) They go back to their home country, which means there is no one to do those jobs. What are the short term and long term effects on the economy?

Immigration reform is required but it needs to be well thought out which this does not appear to be.

Like what? List these jobs and be as specific as possible.

Obviously you haven't seen a construction site in a long time.

I see his point. If the latter happens that could drive up wages but also drive up the cost to buy good or services that were inflated with the higher labor rate due to the lack of supply.

(08-10-2018 12:11 PM)JTiger Wrote:  

(08-10-2018 11:33 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-10-2018 11:28 AM)BobL Wrote:  Sounds great on the surface but I would like to see more detailed long term analysis.
These legal immigrants that collect "welfare" are typically doing the low paying, menial jobs that no American wants to do.

So what happens if that "welfare" is no longer available to them:

1) They become poorer, leading to a host of socioeconomic issues that would be bad overall for our society.
2) They go back to their home country, which means there is no one to do those jobs. What are the short term and long term effects on the economy?

Immigration reform is required but it needs to be well thought out which this does not appear to be.

Like what? List these jobs and be as specific as possible.

Obviously you haven't seen a construction site in a long time.

I see his point. If the latter happens that could drive up wages but also drive up the cost to buy good or services that were inflated with the higher labor rate due to the lack of supply.

So Americans aren't willing to do construction? Strange...the roofing crew that's currently putting shingles on my house is American. The crew that built my mom's house was American. The crew that built the fire station I retired from was American. That right there is a lot of people doing something that they aren't supposed to be willing to do.

What I think you are driving at is Americans aren't willing to live 14 deep in a single wide with no running water, an open sewer running thru the back yard into the storm drain, stealing electricity from the neighbors, etc. in order to make it on slave wages like the illegals do.

(08-10-2018 11:33 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-10-2018 11:28 AM)BobL Wrote:  Sounds great on the surface but I would like to see more detailed long term analysis.
These legal immigrants that collect "welfare" are typically doing the low paying, menial jobs that no American wants to do.

So what happens if that "welfare" is no longer available to them:

1) They become poorer, leading to a host of socioeconomic issues that would be bad overall for our society.
2) They go back to their home country, which means there is no one to do those jobs. What are the short term and long term effects on the economy?

Immigration reform is required but it needs to be well thought out which this does not appear to be.

Like what? List these jobs and be as specific as possible.

Janitorial/Cleaning Services
Landscaping
Fast Food/Food Service
Farm workers
Non-union construction

Im certain there is more but that is my experience.

Keep in mind there are currently more job openings than people looking for jobs.

People having to either be able to make a living or not be "feeble-minded" were the norm for immigration in the 1900's.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/early-immigrants...1677343708

Have you ever played Simon? Knox's test was like that, only if you messed up, instead of getting buzzed, you were thrown out of a country. Knox lined up four wooden cubes and gestured for the person taking the test to follow his lead. He tapped sequences on the cubes (1 2 3 4 - 1 2 3 4 3 - 1 2 3 4 2 - 1 3 2 4 - 1 3 4 2 3 1). Using these sequences, he reported, he was able to screen 400 "feeble-minded" people out of 4000 "suspected defectives."

(08-10-2018 12:29 PM)BobL Wrote:  

(08-10-2018 11:33 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-10-2018 11:28 AM)BobL Wrote:  Sounds great on the surface but I would like to see more detailed long term analysis.
These legal immigrants that collect "welfare" are typically doing the low paying, menial jobs that no American wants to do.

So what happens if that "welfare" is no longer available to them:

1) They become poorer, leading to a host of socioeconomic issues that would be bad overall for our society.
2) They go back to their home country, which means there is no one to do those jobs. What are the short term and long term effects on the economy?

Immigration reform is required but it needs to be well thought out which this does not appear to be.

Like what? List these jobs and be as specific as possible.

Janitorial/Cleaning Services

Strange....every janitorial service I know is is run by Americans and employs Americans.

Quote: Landscaping

Guess I need to tell my cousin that seeing as the company he built from the ground up, going from a teenager in a Toyota longbed with a rebuilt 1970's Snapper and a pieced together curved shaft weedeater to one running 6 crews in the residential division and 3 in the commercial with every single employee being an American, is doing something Americans will not do.

Quote:Fast Food/Food Service

You must not eat much fast food.

Quote:Farm workers

I personally know this to be an outright lie because for years, even after college and going to work in the fire service, I would work for a family friend every year leading up to New Year's cutting collards for the market. It would be me, the family that owns the farm and a bunch of high school and college aged kids. I'd still be doing it each year if it weren't for the fact that my friend admitted he had to hire illegals in order to stay in business because of his competition being able to majorly undercut him on price due to little labor costs hiring illegals for less than minimum wage.

Oh, and I grew up on a working farm.

Quote:Non-union construction

Next time they are taking a break I'll have to ask the American roofing crew currently replacing shingles on my house if they are union or not. Being South Carolina I seriously doubt it. I know the crew that built the fire station I retired from wasn't union, and I seriously doubt the company that built my mom's house was union.

I hate to repeat myself but it applies here too: What I think you are driving at is Americans aren't willing to live 14 deep in a single wide with no running water, an open sewer running thru the back yard into the storm drain, stealing electricity from the neighbors, etc. in order to make it on slave wages like the illegals do.

Oh and evidently the people around this part of America are more hardworking than what you are accustomed to.

(08-10-2018 12:54 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-10-2018 12:29 PM)BobL Wrote:  

(08-10-2018 11:33 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-10-2018 11:28 AM)BobL Wrote:  Sounds great on the surface but I would like to see more detailed long term analysis.
These legal immigrants that collect "welfare" are typically doing the low paying, menial jobs that no American wants to do.

So what happens if that "welfare" is no longer available to them:

1) They become poorer, leading to a host of socioeconomic issues that would be bad overall for our society.
2) They go back to their home country, which means there is no one to do those jobs. What are the short term and long term effects on the economy?

Immigration reform is required but it needs to be well thought out which this does not appear to be.

Like what? List these jobs and be as specific as possible.

Janitorial/Cleaning Services

Strange....every janitorial service I know is is run by Americans and employs Americans.

Quote: Landscaping

Guess I need to tell my cousin that seeing as the company he built from the ground up, going from a teenager in a Toyota longbed with a rebuilt 1970's Snapper and a pieced together curved shaft weedeater to one running 6 crews in the residential division and 3 in the commercial with every single employee being an American, is doing something Americans will not do.

Quote:Fast Food/Food Service

You must not eat much fast food.

Quote:Farm workers

I personally know this to be an outright lie because for years, even after college and going to work in the fire service, I would work for a family friend every year leading up to New Year's cutting collards for the market. It would be me, the family that owns the farm and a bunch of high school and college aged kids. I'd still be doing it each year if it weren't for the fact that my friend admitted he had to hire illegals in order to stay in business because of his competition being able to majorly undercut him on price due to little labor costs hiring illegals for less than minimum wage.

Oh, and I grew up on a working farm.

Quote:Non-union construction

Next time they are taking a break I'll have to ask the American roofing crew currently replacing shingles on my house if they are union or not. Being South Carolina I seriously doubt it. I know the crew that built the fire station I retired from wasn't union, and I seriously doubt the company that built my mom's house was union.

I hate to repeat myself but it applies here too: What I think you are driving at is Americans aren't willing to live 14 deep in a single wide with no running water, an open sewer running thru the back yard into the storm drain, stealing electricity from the neighbors, etc. in order to make it on slave wages like the illegals do.

Oh and evidently the people around this part of America are more hardworking than what you are accustomed to.

Clearly you are one of those who fail to see beyond their own backyard. Given that you live in SC that not surprising, visit a state like Texas, Arizona, Illinois or California and you would see that I am correct.

(08-10-2018 12:59 PM)BobL Wrote:  

(08-10-2018 12:54 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-10-2018 12:29 PM)BobL Wrote:  

(08-10-2018 11:33 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-10-2018 11:28 AM)BobL Wrote:  Sounds great on the surface but I would like to see more detailed long term analysis.
These legal immigrants that collect "welfare" are typically doing the low paying, menial jobs that no American wants to do.

So what happens if that "welfare" is no longer available to them:

1) They become poorer, leading to a host of socioeconomic issues that would be bad overall for our society.
2) They go back to their home country, which means there is no one to do those jobs. What are the short term and long term effects on the economy?

Immigration reform is required but it needs to be well thought out which this does not appear to be.

Like what? List these jobs and be as specific as possible.

Janitorial/Cleaning Services

Strange....every janitorial service I know is is run by Americans and employs Americans.

Quote: Landscaping

Guess I need to tell my cousin that seeing as the company he built from the ground up, going from a teenager in a Toyota longbed with a rebuilt 1970's Snapper and a pieced together curved shaft weedeater to one running 6 crews in the residential division and 3 in the commercial with every single employee being an American, is doing something Americans will not do.

Quote:Fast Food/Food Service

You must not eat much fast food.

Quote:Farm workers

I personally know this to be an outright lie because for years, even after college and going to work in the fire service, I would work for a family friend every year leading up to New Year's cutting collards for the market. It would be me, the family that owns the farm and a bunch of high school and college aged kids. I'd still be doing it each year if it weren't for the fact that my friend admitted he had to hire illegals in order to stay in business because of his competition being able to majorly undercut him on price due to little labor costs hiring illegals for less than minimum wage.

Oh, and I grew up on a working farm.

Quote:Non-union construction

Next time they are taking a break I'll have to ask the American roofing crew currently replacing shingles on my house if they are union or not. Being South Carolina I seriously doubt it. I know the crew that built the fire station I retired from wasn't union, and I seriously doubt the company that built my mom's house was union.

I hate to repeat myself but it applies here too: What I think you are driving at is Americans aren't willing to live 14 deep in a single wide with no running water, an open sewer running thru the back yard into the storm drain, stealing electricity from the neighbors, etc. in order to make it on slave wages like the illegals do.

Oh and evidently the people around this part of America are more hardworking than what you are accustomed to.

Clearly you are one of those who fail to see beyond their own backyard. Given that you live in SC that not surprising, visit a state like Texas, Arizona, Illinois or California and you would see that I am correct.

LOL Like I said, evidently Americans aren't willing to live 14 deep ina singlewide with no running water, an open sewer in the back yard, and stealing electricity to be able to survive on slave wages like illegals do.

And perhaps I have a lot more faith in the American people than you do. I know that there are people who will do every single job you listed as long as they are properly compensated for it. Companies would be forced to properly compensate Americans to do these jobs if their supply of illegal labor dried up. Which party is it that repeatedly throws roadblocks in the way of any attempt to dry up said supply? Why it's YOUR party.

(08-09-2018 09:36 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(08-09-2018 04:13 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  or build two walls....

it still amazes me we give ANY illegal ANYTHING from taxpayer funds....

This plan is banning welfare for legal immigrants.

Illegal immigrants add billions more on top of this.

Right.

But I wonder how it actually works.

Does the welfare office stop enrolling immigrants?

Do they ask if you're an immigrant? If you say yes do they ask for your papers? If you're legal you don't get benefits? But if you don't have papers you're good to go?

I just wonder if, in the real world, this essentially cuts off assistance for non-US citizens regardless of immigration legal standing.

I'm a conservative and pretty much the majority of the labor force in EP are Mexican. What I've been saying for a time now that since we're getting so many jobs an American will find it beneath him to work in the fields that were listed. I know I've done them but I did them as a firefighter and was part of my job description but unless it's a job with the city doing those jobs will be done by Mexican nationals legal (green card) or not. What we need for the farm labor is the Bracero Program. Those Mexicans don't generally want to leave their families and their country they just want to be able to support them. The bracero program during the second world war was very important AND successful. But what's funny is that before the war Hoover sent them back and then regretted it because we were in recovery from the Depression and Americans didn't need or want those jobs, thus the Bracero Program. I can't see why we don't institute it again.

(08-10-2018 12:59 PM)BobL Wrote:  Clearly you are one of those who fail to see beyond their own backyard. Given that you live in SC that not surprising, visit a state like Texas, Arizona, Illinois or California and you would see that I am correct.

Oh, aren't you a peach. Bat 0-4 and then complain about the quality of the pitching.