arkstfan
Sorry folks
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RE: What do you replace the church with?
(07-25-2018 06:39 PM)JRsec Wrote: (07-25-2018 03:27 PM)bullet Wrote: (07-25-2018 02:37 PM)arkstfan Wrote: (07-25-2018 12:04 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote: From my perspective as an Evangelical Southern Baptist, the church will never be replaced based on the Scriptures until the return of Christ Jesus that will fulfill and complete the "church age" that we're currently in. I can cite Scripture if necessary. People are leaving churches, membership has declined, churches are closing, etc., but I think you have to take it into context. First, this has gone on for millenia as the church has had periods of corruption and low impact to periods of growth and revival. Second, growth/decline depends largely on the geographic area and the church denomination. I can speak from experience as my church membership here in North Carolina has grown from around 800 to 1,500 in under 15 years. We've done several building expansion/renovation projects and preparing for a third. Here are some links to help illustrate the numbers to consider...
Church in America
Church Growth/Decline
I think church in general has done a poor job in two areas: discipleship and adapting to the younger generation. Discipleship is the DAILY process of living as a Christian in a sinful world and how you relate to others and how to represent Christ Jesus. At my church we offer a wide variety of discipleship classes (typically Wednesday nights) that does just that - teaching why and how to CONTINUALLY develop your discipleship practices and actions and how it benefits you and those around you. In terms of young people, the church has to find better ways to communicate and make church a place of fellowship and fun without losing the preaching and teaching of the Holy Scriptures' core doctrine. For example, my church uses a praise and worship band consisting of guitar, bass, drums, keyboards, etc. Why? Because younger folks relate to this music style better than traditional (e.g., choir, gospel, etc.) music. As someone who grew up on rock, blues, folk, jazz, etc., it blew my mind when I heard our band for the first time playing contemporary Christian music. It was the "hook" that God used to set in my heart to desire worshiping Him. We also have a coffee/sandwich shop in our church that is open to the public. We offer wireless internet service (free), and many folks now use a download smart phone/tab app for following the Sunday Sermon message outline instead of the traditional paper copy. We also provide all kinds of year round activities and programming for young families because that is where your growth and future church members are.
As a person who has helped plant a couple congregations.
Church isn't ever going away. It may be smaller and likely will be much smaller.
Liberated of people who there because they see attendance as important to a political career or business career will correct a lot of problems.
A number of churches have driven full speed down a dead end street. Any pastor who thinks abortion and homosexuals (or worse, abortion, homosexuals, and the tax code) are the biggest issues in a person's life is missing the boat, the pier, and the whole harbor.
Toss in the prosperity gospel folks and it has been a battle.
One of the reasons I'm the odd duck not complaining about Millennials is because I've found them to mostly be immune to the old avenues of being evangelized. You go clean up parks, help an inner city school, do things for the homeless, try to help people just out of prison get on their feet and explain to them why we exist and you can get them. Offer some weak argument like "well what if you are wrong and there is a God" and you can hang it up.
Its the liberals in the churches driving the homosexual issue as the most important one.
They push it Bullet, but it is the corporate church hierarchy that has allowed this out of fear of losing some straight out corporate and governmental assistance. Remember H.W. Bush's 1000 points of light. Well if you took that assistance to help the homeless, battered women, etc, you can forget taking a traditional stance on sexuality. Have CEO's in your denomination that steer some corporate donations, or interest free loans your way? Bye bye getting around the corporate stance on whatever the issue may be. There are major strings attached to that money.
The Presbyterian Church and the Lutheran Church have already split over this issue and the Methodists will meet next year to do the same. There has been an exodus of some prominent churches from the Southern Baptist Convention over the same.
My point is that it is the acceptance of outside money with strings and the fear of being attacked in the media that have rendered these denominations bereft of a voice in moral issues. But then they neutered themselves years ago when their tithes and offerings went to self serving projects instead of to the places that Christ directed: widows, orphans, poor, sick, sojourners within your gates, and to help the imprisoned.
If you claim they are budgeted items you need to reread my earlier posts. The line items in budgets for these areas simply go to pay other ministers and missionaries salaries, retirement, insurance, housing, expenses, etc.
All of these systems are of the clergy, by the clergy, and for the clergy. It is as if Eli's sons had returned to take over the church business everywhere.
We home church. Our tithes and offerings go directly to those in need and with them we always get asked, "Why are you doing this for us?" Well right there you have your opening for a witness. "We are doing this for you because it is what God wants us to do because God loves and values you."
That's what the corporate church never gets around to and why it fails. And if you aren't helping people directly the young folks see you for what you are, worthless. If you want to reach the young then help them, or their friends, and get them involved with it. Then you'll grow.
In corporate church you drop some in the plate and socialize and have no responsibility to be a minister to anyone. Your pastor gets a fat check to work himself/herself to death (appx. 60-70 hours a week). They burn out, die early, or get too accustomed to the money, power or prestige and lose their way. Their congregations do nothing much of note and in time they die out with the wealthiest members.
Get everyone involved in ministry and just try to keep up with your growth. But your growth doesn't need a weekly meeting place all under one roof, just more homes to meet in. And there is no salary to support, no building overhead to cover, but there is a lot of personal contact time. There's your first century church at work.
In other words people are attracted to Christianity in practice, not in Christianity professed, or conferred through training programs that require no subsequent action when completed.
Your hammer keeps finding the nails.
The Christian school my daughter attended at a parent-teacher organization meeting asked us to lobby our legislators over a bill to provide vouchers. During comments I opined that if you get hooked on government money you are at risk of compromising your beliefs in order to keep the money flowing.
If I had ripped a big fart it would have been better received than that statement.
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