(07-22-2018 11:48 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: I'd say the most surprising revelation is that 8% of the people in Alabama are non-religious. That's way higher than I would have guessed.
Well to quote Proverbs, "Train a child up in the way they should go and when they are old they will not depart from it."
Religious training of children is pretty low. Secular training of children in school is universal in public schools.
The disconnect has been the affluent church. Most denominational churches are run like corporations. Everything revolves around the revenue and not specifically the mission. The Catholic Church will spend a nickel out of every dollar received upon some sort of mission for the poor, the orphans, the widows, the sick, the prisoner or the foreign sojourner who is within our community. Heck, the United Way only spends a nickel of every dollar on these things as well. So wouldn't you hold the Church which purports helping people to a higher standard?
But before you think I'm busting the Catholics, most mainline protestant denominations spend less than 3 cents on the same.
Now all of them will show you pie charts proclaiming that they spend 27% or some such number on home and foreign missions, but try getting the denomination to send you the breakdown behind those pie charts. You'll find that the overwhelming majority of that money goes to pay the missionaries salaries, health insurance, housing, transportation, and to denominational structures built in the mission field and that practically nothing but a pittance actually goes to the poor. So for every buck dropped in the plate about 60 cents of it will go to the local church building, utilities, salaries of clergy and staff, insurances for said staff & clergy, liability insurance for the church, fire insurance, etc. About another 20 to 25 cents will go to pay for the corporate offices of the denomination, the hierarchy's salaries & insurance & homes & staff, and most of them get extra stipends for travel. The rest will go into supplies for the family night meals, literature and books, and if the church is progressive they might actually have a poor fund which again will average getting somewhere around 2 to 4 cents on the dollar. But most don't have that much going to the poor.
Most denominational relief funds will claim to deliver 100% of the money to the poor. Most get most of it there but not 100%. But then that money is given over and above your tithe. So much less denominational stuff gets sucked out of it.
My point GTS and Owl is that if there are buildings, salaries, staff, programming, etc, it is a business and not a mission.
Paul said I labor while I am among you that I may not trouble any of you so that you might believe the Gospel. Christ sent his disciples out 2 by 2 to go into homes an to teach and to remain as long as they were welcome. And he told us he was where two or more were gathered in his name.
Paul and the disciples took no money from the people they ministered to unless it was for the poor, the orphan, the widowed, the sick, etc. Their offering of the Gospel was free. Their ministry was free. And their "church" was the people they were with.
So if you are looking for the substitute of the corporate church then more power to you. But you are to look for God within and what you personally do for others is your mission. So each gives what they can, when they can, as often as they can. In other words in true Christianity you are the teacher and missionary and whoever you are with is your church.
That means that you never needed a substitute for church, just a mission. And if you aren't sure what you believe then share your questions and talk about them.
I've met a lot of younger people who don't know what to believe in. That's quite different than saying they don't believe. They are smart enough to read a Bible/Tanakh/or Koran and then compare what they've read to what they see their church,synagogue, or mosque proclaim. When actions don't meet the scriptures they skedaddle. Most of them are searching. They need only begin with their own questions and in the sharing of ideas and assistance with others. In the search that involves questioning, talking about it with others, and in giving and receiving help the Divine is frequently revealed and it usually comes in the form of affirmation, inner peace, a sense of purpose, the humility of shared imperfection, and hope.
It's everything the very first churches hoped to find.
But you can't find it by just listening to 1 guy talk every week, you can't find it by doing nothing, and you can't find it by being angry over all of the hypocrisy. You can only find it by talking about your doubts, feelings, ideas about, and search for it. After all one of the most familiar sayings in the Bible is, "Seek and ye shall find." When you've found your true self, and you have shared your search with friends and new faces, it is in the experience of that mutual longing that all kinds of discoveries are made possible.
In my journey I have come to see what we call church as a bigger obstacle to faith than anything secular or destructive. People know evil when they see it. What destroys them is looking for truth and justice in self serving places that claim to believe in a loving and forgiving God. I also accepted Christ as the way. His teachings aren't in error, just the way we interpret and twist them to our own satisfaction. It's like Mahatma Ghandi once stated when he said Christianity was the best religion he had ever studied. He simply said that he hadn't met anyone who applied it. Well he was living with Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, and the British Military. And he had left South Africa. It was easy to understand why he would say that. He had lived in nothing but constant conflict. Ultimately it is up to us to adhere to the teachings of the Bible and of Christ. If we don't struggle with our imperfections in that quest then we will never discover the grace we need to live with others.
That Proverb I quoted to begin this post is so very wise. Teach a child how to search for the way they should go, and they will spend a lifetime seeking it, and when they are old they will not depart from a way that has brought so much fulfillment.
But the beauty of it is that whether you believe in the supernatural aspects of a god, or not, the replacement of the church that you are looking for is actually a societal touchstone that acts as a moral framework around which to build a better life. So starting with your unbelief, or doubt, or just questions about what you seek is the first step in the journey of answering this question, which I take as, "What should the organizing principle of our lives be?" That is a question that you may share, but it is a question that you may only answer yourself while seeking it. You can share the journey, but ultimately the organizing principle of your life is determined by you. What do you value? How will your time here be spent? What should you value? How will you spend your time with regard to others? How do you see others? How sympathetic are you to their struggles, questions, doubts, and fears? How do you give them value, and how do you let them help you discover your own? All successful societies are built upon mutually shared objectives and a common morality that must be understood before it can be utilized. And all forgiveness begins within. You either accept forgiveness, or you never learn to give it. It is the basis of all solid relationships between imperfect people.
The United States was built on tolerance, adherence to law, and consideration for the rights of others. But we have allowed those with agendas to twist the meaning and destroy the experience and it is because we have not helped them to take their own spiritual journey whether that ends with an adherence to a religion or just philanthropy. As long as only the self is served civilization is impossible.
So you are asking good questions, but you are looking outside for answers where you will never find them. Ask yourself and then share your inner journey with others doing the same. You and they together will bring meaning and fulfillment to your life and it is that synergy which many call Divine.
[cleaned up some formatting - LS)