(04-23-2018 08:01 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 06:59 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-22-2018 11:53 AM)XLance Wrote:  I like having Notre Dame at an arms distance.
We have enough of them, without having to deal with them completely, and as long as they believe that they are still independent in football, the better off the ACC is.

So, in reality and not my delusional mind, which division of the ACC does ND football really play in?

Atlantic

What do the sportswriters think of ND's chances in that division this coming season?

Will ND even be bowl-eligible this year?

(04-23-2018 01:57 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 08:01 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 06:59 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-22-2018 11:53 AM)XLance Wrote:  I like having Notre Dame at an arms distance.
We have enough of them, without having to deal with them completely, and as long as they believe that they are still independent in football, the better off the ACC is.

So, in reality and not my delusional mind, which division of the ACC does ND football really play in?

Atlantic

What do the sportswriters think of ND's chances in that division this coming season?

I just asked Manti Te'o's girlfriend and she told me that Notre Dame has a great chance of winning the Irish division this season. She is supposedly a writer for the Daily Bugle so I guess that counts?

(04-21-2018 02:36 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(04-21-2018 01:45 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-21-2018 11:18 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  Incarnate Word was hyperbole y'all. Jeez.

But if we wanted Navy, Cincy or the like we would get our way. Incarnate Word was just a university that popped in my head.

I think that everyone who reads this board understood with your "Incarnate World" statement, that you were saying that ND could bring whoever they want with them to the ACC and the ACC would take them. I also think that everyone knows that I think you are overstating ND's influence within this league with such a statement.

Keep dreaming. If we want Navy, Cincy or whomever we'll get them. No need to debate something that ain't gonna happen in any of our lifetimes.

Navy and Cincy are worthy of discussion. Not an automatic yes, but not an automatic no. Schools "like" Incarnate Word are an automatic no. If ND said add "a school like" Incarnate Word or we are leaving, ND would be leaving. We have an ample supply of divas.

Still 1 vote.

(04-21-2018 06:11 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Its all relative.

ND has clout, or its football program would be in the Big Ten, it would not have the NBC stand alone TV contract, wouldn't have gotten the ACC to agree to partial membership, would not have gotten the Big Ten to allow its hockey program (only) to join, would not cause sellouts in most away games (ACC ones included), would not have gotten a full conference share of the ACC Network revenues, etc....

Not worth arguing about since ND football is not joining a conference in the foreseeable future.

Terry,

I dont have anything against ND. Im glad that the ACC has the relationship with ND that they do. If you got it, flaunt it. With that said, The fact that ND had to get the ACC to agree to a partial membership and be dictated to play 5 ACC teams each year, says a lot about ND's power and influence today. They never had to do that before. As far as ND getting a full share of the ACC network, well they should. They are a full member in everything but fb. And they play 5 Acc fb teams a season. Well earned! They probably are going to be responsible for more ACC subscriptions sold than the Wake Forest's of the world.

Regarding ND hockey joining the BIG for hockey. Thats a Big yawn for most. The same as if Syracuse lacrosse were to join the BIG. No one would care except SU fans.

What happens in, say 10 years, if the ACC tells Notre Dame, we love you but only as a full conference member? You're either going to have to become a full member or we'll bid you farewell.

Notre Dame supporters may say, "We won't have any problem. We'll just go back to being independents." Maybe, but non-conference scheduling is getting more difficult as conferences go to 9 or even 10 game conference schedules. Bowl games like dealing with conferences who can supply them with a different team every year. Does Notre Dame have the clout to force itself into bowl arrangements without the help of a conference? The conferences would probably want to use their power to cut Notre Dame out of the action. Neither the B1G nor the SEC want Notre Dame as a partial member and the SEC would be a horrible fit culturally. The B12 and the PAC are weak financially and neither is a good fit geographically.

What would Notre Dame do? Be a partial member of the AAC with its weak bowl lineup? Join the BE so their sports other that football have a home? These are not appealing options for Notre Dame. That's why they agreed to be partial ACC members.

The value of the Notre Dame football franchise, which still high, has been in a slow decline for decades. I don't know what's going to reverse that. The power of the ACC versus Notre Dame is likely to go up over time.

And there's the issue of what happens with the college football playoffs. It's already difficult for Notre Dame to make it in because they don't play in a conference championship game. I don't think this problem is going away.

My thought is that the silly pleading with Notre Dame to become a full ACC member is ridiculous. The ACC isn't that weak and Notre Dame isn't that strong. Give it 10 or 20 years and the ACC can have Notre Dame as a full member, assuming the ACC still wants Notre Dame as a full member, and assuming Notre Dame is realistic about its value.

(04-23-2018 01:57 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 08:01 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 06:59 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-22-2018 11:53 AM)XLance Wrote:  I like having Notre Dame at an arms distance.
We have enough of them, without having to deal with them completely, and as long as they believe that they are still independent in football, the better off the ACC is.

So, in reality and not my delusional mind, which division of the ACC does ND football really play in?

Atlantic

What do the sportswriters think of ND's chances in that division this coming season?

None. your not in it. You would be if you joined.

(04-23-2018 02:09 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Will ND even be bowl-eligible this year?

It won ten games last year. I expect a similar result. Nine or ten regular season wins, does that qualify it for a bowl?

(04-23-2018 04:28 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 01:57 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 08:01 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 06:59 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-22-2018 11:53 AM)XLance Wrote:  I like having Notre Dame at an arms distance.
We have enough of them, without having to deal with them completely, and as long as they believe that they are still independent in football, the better off the ACC is.

So, in reality and not my delusional mind, which division of the ACC does ND football really play in?

Atlantic

What do the sportswriters think of ND's chances in that division this coming season?

None. your not in it. You would be if you joined.

So, XLance is wrong and ND football is indeed not in any conference. Got it.

(04-23-2018 04:11 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  What happens in, say 10 years, if the ACC tells Notre Dame, we love you but only as a full conference member? You're either going to have to become a full member or we'll bid you farewell.

Notre Dame supporters may say, "We won't have any problem. We'll just go back to being independents." Maybe, but non-conference scheduling is getting more difficult as conferences go to 9 or even 10 game conference schedules. Bowl games like dealing with conferences who can supply them with a different team every year. Does Notre Dame have the clout to force itself into bowl arrangements without the help of a conference? The conferences would probably want to use their power to cut Notre Dame out of the action. Neither the B1G nor the SEC want Notre Dame as a partial member and the SEC would be a horrible fit culturally. The B12 and the PAC are weak financially and neither is a good fit geographically.

What would Notre Dame do? Be a partial member of the AAC with its weak bowl lineup? Join the BE so their sports other that football have a home? These are not appealing options for Notre Dame. That's why they agreed to be partial ACC members.

The value of the Notre Dame football franchise, which still high, has been in a slow decline for decades. I don't know what's going to reverse that. The power of the ACC versus Notre Dame is likely to go up over time.

And there's the issue of what happens with the college football playoffs. It's already difficult for Notre Dame to make it in because they don't play in a conference championship game. I don't think this problem is going away.

My thought is that the silly pleading with Notre Dame to become a full ACC member is ridiculous. The ACC isn't that weak and Notre Dame isn't that strong. Give it 10 or 20 years and the ACC can have Notre Dame as a full member, assuming the ACC still wants Notre Dame as a full member, and assuming Notre Dame is realistic about its value.

Can you point to a provision in the contracts that gives the ACC the legal right to kick ND out? Legally, ND is a full member of the ACC, just the same (exactly) as Duke.

You can't tie a school down with a GOR and an exit fee but try to throw them out...For what? For doing exactly what was agreed to?

I don't think that the ACC would win that court case.

(04-23-2018 05:54 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 04:11 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  What happens in, say 10 years, if the ACC tells Notre Dame, we love you but only as a full conference member? You're either going to have to become a full member or we'll bid you farewell.

Notre Dame supporters may say, "We won't have any problem. We'll just go back to being independents." Maybe, but non-conference scheduling is getting more difficult as conferences go to 9 or even 10 game conference schedules. Bowl games like dealing with conferences who can supply them with a different team every year. Does Notre Dame have the clout to force itself into bowl arrangements without the help of a conference? The conferences would probably want to use their power to cut Notre Dame out of the action. Neither the B1G nor the SEC want Notre Dame as a partial member and the SEC would be a horrible fit culturally. The B12 and the PAC are weak financially and neither is a good fit geographically.

What would Notre Dame do? Be a partial member of the AAC with its weak bowl lineup? Join the BE so their sports other that football have a home? These are not appealing options for Notre Dame. That's why they agreed to be partial ACC members.

The value of the Notre Dame football franchise, which still high, has been in a slow decline for decades. I don't know what's going to reverse that. The power of the ACC versus Notre Dame is likely to go up over time.

And there's the issue of what happens with the college football playoffs. It's already difficult for Notre Dame to make it in because they don't play in a conference championship game. I don't think this problem is going away.

My thought is that the silly pleading with Notre Dame to become a full ACC member is ridiculous. The ACC isn't that weak and Notre Dame isn't that strong. Give it 10 or 20 years and the ACC can have Notre Dame as a full member, assuming the ACC still wants Notre Dame as a full member, and assuming Notre Dame is realistic about its value.

Can you point to a provision in the contracts that gives the ACC the legal right to kick ND out? Legally, ND is a full member of the ACC, just the same (exactly) as Duke.

You can't tie a school down with a GOR and an exit fee but try to throw them out...For what? For doing exactly what was agreed to?

I don't think that the ACC would win that court case.

The ACC and Notre Dame aren't hitched in perpetuity but the agreement is longer than I thought -- 2037 is the end date.
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/colle...60542.html

(04-23-2018 05:54 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 04:11 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  What happens in, say 10 years, if the ACC tells Notre Dame, we love you but only as a full conference member? You're either going to have to become a full member or we'll bid you farewell.

Notre Dame supporters may say, "We won't have any problem. We'll just go back to being independents." Maybe, but non-conference scheduling is getting more difficult as conferences go to 9 or even 10 game conference schedules. Bowl games like dealing with conferences who can supply them with a different team every year. Does Notre Dame have the clout to force itself into bowl arrangements without the help of a conference? The conferences would probably want to use their power to cut Notre Dame out of the action. Neither the B1G nor the SEC want Notre Dame as a partial member and the SEC would be a horrible fit culturally. The B12 and the PAC are weak financially and neither is a good fit geographically.

What would Notre Dame do? Be a partial member of the AAC with its weak bowl lineup? Join the BE so their sports other that football have a home? These are not appealing options for Notre Dame. That's why they agreed to be partial ACC members.

The value of the Notre Dame football franchise, which still high, has been in a slow decline for decades. I don't know what's going to reverse that. The power of the ACC versus Notre Dame is likely to go up over time.

And there's the issue of what happens with the college football playoffs. It's already difficult for Notre Dame to make it in because they don't play in a conference championship game. I don't think this problem is going away.

My thought is that the silly pleading with Notre Dame to become a full ACC member is ridiculous. The ACC isn't that weak and Notre Dame isn't that strong. Give it 10 or 20 years and the ACC can have Notre Dame as a full member, assuming the ACC still wants Notre Dame as a full member, and assuming Notre Dame is realistic about its value.

Can you point to a provision in the contracts that gives the ACC the legal right to kick ND out? Legally, ND is a full member of the ACC, just the same (exactly) as Duke.

You can't tie a school down with a GOR and an exit fee but try to throw them out...For what? For doing exactly what was agreed to?

I don't think that the ACC would win that court case.

Beat me to it.

I'm not an attorney, but I have been married, and happily divorced. So ... I know my way around semantics and arguments.


I think the ACC is just fine with ND as they are. All this talk about "forcing them to go all in" is just that ... talk.


And I really think, that should things open up around us (and say the Big XII implodes), that Texas could be a target by being given the "ND type arrangement". Frankly, that'd be a pretty big win for the conference. (And yeah I know, Texas is supremely as$-holish, but still ... they'd be a big get).


The ACC is sitting pretty. Membership is strong. Quality of programs seems pretty strong across the board. Just need to let things marinate. Kinda like a good pot of chili. It gets better with age. The ACC Network should help out a lot. As long as the schools remain competitive ... we should be just fine.

(04-23-2018 02:13 PM)The Grassy Nole Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 01:57 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 08:01 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 06:59 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-22-2018 11:53 AM)XLance Wrote:  I like having Notre Dame at an arms distance.
We have enough of them, without having to deal with them completely, and as long as they believe that they are still independent in football, the better off the ACC is.

So, in reality and not my delusional mind, which division of the ACC does ND football really play in?

Atlantic

What do the sportswriters think of ND's chances in that division this coming season?

I just asked Manti Te'o's girlfriend and she told me that Notre Dame has a great chance of winning the Irish division this season. She is supposedly a writer for the Daily Bugle so I guess that counts?

She died in 2012.

(04-23-2018 03:34 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-21-2018 06:11 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Its all relative.

ND has clout, or its football program would be in the Big Ten, it would not have the NBC stand alone TV contract, wouldn't have gotten the ACC to agree to partial membership, would not have gotten the Big Ten to allow its hockey program (only) to join, would not cause sellouts in most away games (ACC ones included), would not have gotten a full conference share of the ACC Network revenues, etc....

Not worth arguing about since ND football is not joining a conference in the foreseeable future.

Terry,

I dont have anything against ND. Im glad that the ACC has the relationship with ND that they do. If you got it, flaunt it. With that said, The fact that ND had to get the ACC to agree to a partial membership and be dictated to play 5 ACC teams each year, says a lot about ND's power and influence today. They never had to do that before. As far as ND getting a full share of the ACC network, well they should. They are a full member in everything but fb. And they play 5 Acc fb teams a season. Well earned! They probably are going to be responsible for more ACC subscriptions sold than the Wake Forest's of the world.

Regarding ND hockey joining the BIG for hockey. Thats a Big yawn for most. The same as if Syracuse lacrosse were to join the BIG. No one would care except SU fans.

Lol, I consider every non-ND fan an adversary.

ND never had to do it before because it had a locked in 3 games a year with the Big Ten, plus an annual game with Pitt and, lately, BC.

The problem was late November scheduling since the conference teams didn't want to play ND late in the season (except the Pac 12).

The Big Ten deal was jettisoned for the ACC 5 games, the price ND had to pay for bowl affiliations because its former similar bowl relationship with the Big East blew up when it did.

I ain't bragging about the Big Ten hockey thing, but the Big Ten was adamant for decades that it was all or nothing with ND.

The same with the ACC.

They both made exceptions for ND when they said they never would. I don't think the ACC would have done it with any other school. That equals clout.

(04-23-2018 07:18 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 05:54 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 04:11 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  What happens in, say 10 years, if the ACC tells Notre Dame, we love you but only as a full conference member? You're either going to have to become a full member or we'll bid you farewell.

Notre Dame supporters may say, "We won't have any problem. We'll just go back to being independents." Maybe, but non-conference scheduling is getting more difficult as conferences go to 9 or even 10 game conference schedules. Bowl games like dealing with conferences who can supply them with a different team every year. Does Notre Dame have the clout to force itself into bowl arrangements without the help of a conference? The conferences would probably want to use their power to cut Notre Dame out of the action. Neither the B1G nor the SEC want Notre Dame as a partial member and the SEC would be a horrible fit culturally. The B12 and the PAC are weak financially and neither is a good fit geographically.

What would Notre Dame do? Be a partial member of the AAC with its weak bowl lineup? Join the BE so their sports other that football have a home? These are not appealing options for Notre Dame. That's why they agreed to be partial ACC members.

The value of the Notre Dame football franchise, which still high, has been in a slow decline for decades. I don't know what's going to reverse that. The power of the ACC versus Notre Dame is likely to go up over time.

And there's the issue of what happens with the college football playoffs. It's already difficult for Notre Dame to make it in because they don't play in a conference championship game. I don't think this problem is going away.

My thought is that the silly pleading with Notre Dame to become a full ACC member is ridiculous. The ACC isn't that weak and Notre Dame isn't that strong. Give it 10 or 20 years and the ACC can have Notre Dame as a full member, assuming the ACC still wants Notre Dame as a full member, and assuming Notre Dame is realistic about its value.

Can you point to a provision in the contracts that gives the ACC the legal right to kick ND out? Legally, ND is a full member of the ACC, just the same (exactly) as Duke.

You can't tie a school down with a GOR and an exit fee but try to throw them out...For what? For doing exactly what was agreed to?

I don't think that the ACC would win that court case.

The ACC and Notre Dame aren't hitched in perpetuity but the agreement is longer than I thought -- 2037 is the end date.
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/colle...60542.html

Sorry, I thought that everyone knew that.

That was part of the ACC Network deal.

(04-23-2018 09:45 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 03:34 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-21-2018 06:11 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Its all relative.

ND has clout, or its football program would be in the Big Ten, it would not have the NBC stand alone TV contract, wouldn't have gotten the ACC to agree to partial membership, would not have gotten the Big Ten to allow its hockey program (only) to join, would not cause sellouts in most away games (ACC ones included), would not have gotten a full conference share of the ACC Network revenues, etc....

Not worth arguing about since ND football is not joining a conference in the foreseeable future.

Terry,

I dont have anything against ND. Im glad that the ACC has the relationship with ND that they do. If you got it, flaunt it. With that said, The fact that ND had to get the ACC to agree to a partial membership and be dictated to play 5 ACC teams each year, says a lot about ND's power and influence today. They never had to do that before. As far as ND getting a full share of the ACC network, well they should. They are a full member in everything but fb. And they play 5 Acc fb teams a season. Well earned! They probably are going to be responsible for more ACC subscriptions sold than the Wake Forest's of the world.

Regarding ND hockey joining the BIG for hockey. Thats a Big yawn for most. The same as if Syracuse lacrosse were to join the BIG. No one would care except SU fans.

Lol, I consider every non-ND fan an adversary.

ND never had to do it before because it had a locked in 3 games a year with the Big Ten, plus an annual game with Pitt and, lately, BC.

The problem was late November scheduling since the conference teams didn't want to play ND late in the season (except the Pac 12).

The Big Ten deal was jettisoned for the ACC 5 games, the price ND had to pay for bowl affiliations because its former similar bowl relationship with the Big East blew up when it did.

I ain't bragging about the Big Ten hockey thing, but the Big Ten was adamant for decades that it was all or nothing with ND.

The same with the ACC.

They both made exceptions for ND when they said they never would. I don't think the ACC would have done it with any other school. That equals clout.

I dont know if I would use BIG letting ND in for hockey as being an example of ND's clout. They needed to field more teams for hockey and only half of the BIG schools play Hockey. They made the same deal for Johns Hopkins for lacrosse since only a few BIG schools play lacrosse and they needed more members for their lacrosse league.

(04-23-2018 10:19 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 09:45 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 03:34 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-21-2018 06:11 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Its all relative.

ND has clout, or its football program would be in the Big Ten, it would not have the NBC stand alone TV contract, wouldn't have gotten the ACC to agree to partial membership, would not have gotten the Big Ten to allow its hockey program (only) to join, would not cause sellouts in most away games (ACC ones included), would not have gotten a full conference share of the ACC Network revenues, etc....

Not worth arguing about since ND football is not joining a conference in the foreseeable future.

Terry,

I dont have anything against ND. Im glad that the ACC has the relationship with ND that they do. If you got it, flaunt it. With that said, The fact that ND had to get the ACC to agree to a partial membership and be dictated to play 5 ACC teams each year, says a lot about ND's power and influence today. They never had to do that before. As far as ND getting a full share of the ACC network, well they should. They are a full member in everything but fb. And they play 5 Acc fb teams a season. Well earned! They probably are going to be responsible for more ACC subscriptions sold than the Wake Forest's of the world.

Regarding ND hockey joining the BIG for hockey. Thats a Big yawn for most. The same as if Syracuse lacrosse were to join the BIG. No one would care except SU fans.

Lol, I consider every non-ND fan an adversary.

ND never had to do it before because it had a locked in 3 games a year with the Big Ten, plus an annual game with Pitt and, lately, BC.

The problem was late November scheduling since the conference teams didn't want to play ND late in the season (except the Pac 12).

The Big Ten deal was jettisoned for the ACC 5 games, the price ND had to pay for bowl affiliations because its former similar bowl relationship with the Big East blew up when it did.

I ain't bragging about the Big Ten hockey thing, but the Big Ten was adamant for decades that it was all or nothing with ND.

The same with the ACC.

They both made exceptions for ND when they said they never would. I don't think the ACC would have done it with any other school. That equals clout.

I dont know if I would use BIG letting ND in for hockey as being an example of ND's clout. They needed to field more teams for hockey and only half of the BIG schools play Hockey. They made the same deal for Johns Hopkins for lacrosse since only a few BIG schools play lacrosse and they needed more members for their lacrosse league.

South Carolina played soccer in C-USA until very recently. That sort of thing happens way more than people think.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

I think that you have to look at the dogged, decades long pursuit of ND by the Big Ten as a backdrop for the hockey only invitation.

The Big Ten had insisted for decades that as far as ND was concerned, it would always be "all or nothing".

It was an adamant position of the Big Ten. They insisted that they would never make an exception, and threw out the "ND may get left behind" fear mongering tactics.

So, that is a very significant tactical retreat for the Big Ten to say "We held this position for decades, but now are willing to make ND an exception."

That is my take on it, and yes I knew all about Johns Hopkins for lacrosse. That entity doesn't have the adverse, hostile 100 year history with the Big Ten that ND did/does.

Notre Dame discussions always gets this board excited. Its great fuel for the slow season on here!

(04-23-2018 05:53 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 04:28 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 01:57 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 08:01 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 06:59 AM)TerryD Wrote:  [/b]



So, in reality and not my delusional mind, which division of the ACC does ND football really play in?

Atlantic

What do the sportswriters think of ND's chances in that division this coming season?

None. your not in it. You would be if you joined.

So, XLance is wrong and ND football is indeed not in any conference. Got it.