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(09-26-2018 09:28 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(09-26-2018 08:24 AM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(09-25-2018 06:19 PM)brovol Wrote:  I doubt Lester will ever have a more talented group than he did last season.

You've said that before...... What makes you think that?

Have you been looking at the recruiting classes? Lester has so far outpaced what PJ did at this point, talent is going to continue to increase assuming we keep recruiting like we have been.

I would argue that we have a more talented team this year than we did last year. Especially if you count the players that could actually play and weren't injured.

just look at the players we lost to graduation this past off-season. Consider also that the players Lester inherited last year all had the experience of tremendous success. QB and receivers not so much, but keep in mind Lester did have Flacko when he started, but lost him. The team Lester had last year was one of the most talented in MAC history. And if you dont believe me, ask Lester himself. He said so when he got here.

And BTW, I disagree that Lester has outpaced Fleck in recruiting. I think Lester has done great with the recruiting, but by that I am referring to the one class he signed last year, as his first class consisted much of Fleck recruits left after he swiped players. But Flecks classes at WMU were higher ranked than Lester's, and were generally tops in the MAC, and among the very top in G5. Lester came close last year, but he hasn't finished #1 in the MAC. 247 had us ranked #3 in the MAC, behind Toledo and BGU for 2017 class. The 2018 class was #2 in the MAC, and currently we are #3 for the 2019 class. Flecks classes were 2014 #1, 2015 #2, but with the top player average score, and 2016 #1. Say what you want about Fleck, but the guy could recruit here. The guy is a salesman, and he used that skill to find funding for improvements to facilities, which also helped sell the program, and which Lester is benefiting from himself on the recruiting trails.

Lester inherited a team consisting of players from the top three recruiting classes in school history, all of whom experienced great success before he came, along with the addition of a transfer D-lineman who was a beast in the trenches last year. Sure, some of the players didn't end up playing. That happens with every class at every school. But a lot of them played, and indeed were good enough to get NFL opportunities. To diminish the quality of players who actually played last season for Lester is unfair and inaccurate. last years bunch was tremendously talented by MAC standards.

Brovol isn't talking about the 37 player who left the program during PJs 4 years. If you factor that in PJ did not recurit as well as CMU, during those years, and does not come close to Lester's class. Brovol just can't get over the love of his life left for MINN. He just really hates our current coaches and has from the very beginning. Please lets ride and support our current coaches.

(09-26-2018 01:01 PM)jnbaczkiewicz@yahoo.com Wrote:  

(09-26-2018 09:28 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(09-26-2018 08:24 AM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(09-25-2018 06:19 PM)brovol Wrote:  I doubt Lester will ever have a more talented group than he did last season.

You've said that before...... What makes you think that?

Have you been looking at the recruiting classes? Lester has so far outpaced what PJ did at this point, talent is going to continue to increase assuming we keep recruiting like we have been.

I would argue that we have a more talented team this year than we did last year. Especially if you count the players that could actually play and weren't injured.

just look at the players we lost to graduation this past off-season. Consider also that the players Lester inherited last year all had the experience of tremendous success. QB and receivers not so much, but keep in mind Lester did have Flacko when he started, but lost him. The team Lester had last year was one of the most talented in MAC history. And if you dont believe me, ask Lester himself. He said so when he got here.

And BTW, I disagree that Lester has outpaced Fleck in recruiting. I think Lester has done great with the recruiting, but by that I am referring to the one class he signed last year, as his first class consisted much of Fleck recruits left after he swiped players. But Flecks classes at WMU were higher ranked than Lester's, and were generally tops in the MAC, and among the very top in G5. Lester came close last year, but he hasn't finished #1 in the MAC. 247 had us ranked #3 in the MAC, behind Toledo and BGU for 2017 class. The 2018 class was #2 in the MAC, and currently we are #3 for the 2019 class. Flecks classes were 2014 #1, 2015 #2, but with the top player average score, and 2016 #1. Say what you want about Fleck, but the guy could recruit here. The guy is a salesman, and he used that skill to find funding for improvements to facilities, which also helped sell the program, and which Lester is benefiting from himself on the recruiting trails.

Lester inherited a team consisting of players from the top three recruiting classes in school history, all of whom experienced great success before he came, along with the addition of a transfer D-lineman who was a beast in the trenches last year. Sure, some of the players didn't end up playing. That happens with every class at every school. But a lot of them played, and indeed were good enough to get NFL opportunities. To diminish the quality of players who actually played last season for Lester is unfair and inaccurate. last years bunch was tremendously talented by MAC standards.

Brovol isn't talking about the 37 player who left the program during PJs 4 years. If you factor that in PJ did not recurit as well as CMU, during those years, and does not come close to Lester's class. Brovol just can't get over the love of his life left for MINN. He just really hates our current coaches and has from the very beginning. Please lets ride and support our current coaches.

I’ll give credit where credit is due. Credit would be due if Lester wins 8. Anything less and I will be critical

(09-26-2018 01:01 PM)jnbaczkiewicz@yahoo.com Wrote:  

(09-26-2018 09:28 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(09-26-2018 08:24 AM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(09-25-2018 06:19 PM)brovol Wrote:  I doubt Lester will ever have a more talented group than he did last season.

You've said that before...... What makes you think that?

Have you been looking at the recruiting classes? Lester has so far outpaced what PJ did at this point, talent is going to continue to increase assuming we keep recruiting like we have been.

I would argue that we have a more talented team this year than we did last year. Especially if you count the players that could actually play and weren't injured.

just look at the players we lost to graduation this past off-season. Consider also that the players Lester inherited last year all had the experience of tremendous success. QB and receivers not so much, but keep in mind Lester did have Flacko when he started, but lost him. The team Lester had last year was one of the most talented in MAC history. And if you dont believe me, ask Lester himself. He said so when he got here.

And BTW, I disagree that Lester has outpaced Fleck in recruiting. I think Lester has done great with the recruiting, but by that I am referring to the one class he signed last year, as his first class consisted much of Fleck recruits left after he swiped players. But Flecks classes at WMU were higher ranked than Lester's, and were generally tops in the MAC, and among the very top in G5. Lester came close last year, but he hasn't finished #1 in the MAC. 247 had us ranked #3 in the MAC, behind Toledo and BGU for 2017 class. The 2018 class was #2 in the MAC, and currently we are #3 for the 2019 class. Flecks classes were 2014 #1, 2015 #2, but with the top player average score, and 2016 #1. Say what you want about Fleck, but the guy could recruit here. The guy is a salesman, and he used that skill to find funding for improvements to facilities, which also helped sell the program, and which Lester is benefiting from himself on the recruiting trails.

Lester inherited a team consisting of players from the top three recruiting classes in school history, all of whom experienced great success before he came, along with the addition of a transfer D-lineman who was a beast in the trenches last year. Sure, some of the players didn't end up playing. That happens with every class at every school. But a lot of them played, and indeed were good enough to get NFL opportunities. To diminish the quality of players who actually played last season for Lester is unfair and inaccurate. last years bunch was tremendously talented by MAC standards.

Brovol isn't talking about the 37 player who left the program during PJs 4 years. If you factor that in PJ did not recurit as well as CMU, during those years,

That's complete horsesh!t and you know it. And I'm not sure why you feel the need to compare Lester and Fleck's classes. They've both brought in very good MAC classes which is great for the program.

jback just hates anything PJ related. Unfortunately he can't revel in the amazing achievements reached under Fleck's leadership.

That said, PJ is long gone. Time to move on and judge this regime appropriately. As bad as we looked in the first two games, 2-2 is pretty much what I was hoping for.

I'm hopeful for a 7 win season and bowl berth. That will show progress.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/ev...story.html

https://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/..._remo.html

Not sure what a prediction thread has to do with players that left the program before even starting back in 2016.

THIS team is finally showing depth with freshman leading the way on many of these charts in the two deep. We can almost officially state that in year two Lester has made his recruiting prowess known... ON THE FIELD! That’s great going forward.

Boy, Fleck must have been one heck of a coach then, getting to the Cotton Bowl with a bunch of marginal players (many of whom got NFL opportunities).

It is funny how the guy who some folks here despised well before he coached a game for us, and who the same folks trashed for being incompetent during his first year, and then refused to acknowledge progress despite getting to consecutive bowl games, winning the second, during his second and third years, then got further criticized during and after he led the team to an undefeated regular season and highest ranking in school history, still can't get an ounce of credit, but instead the guy who finished 6-6 with a team most here expected to win the MACC, and who started his second season with two embarrassing losses, receives lavish praise and understanding from the same folks. Now you guys want to be taken seriously? Paaaleeeese.

(09-26-2018 07:58 PM)brovol Wrote:  Boy, Fleck must have been one heck of a coach then, getting to the Cotton Bowl with a bunch of marginal players (many of whom got NFL opportunities).

It is funny how the guy who some folks here despised well before he coached a game for us, and who the same folks trashed for being incompetent during his first year, and then refused to acknowledge progress despite getting to consecutive bowl games, winning the second, during his second and third years, then got further criticized during and after he led the team to an undefeated regular season and highest ranking in school history, still can't get an ounce of credit, but instead the guy who finished 6-6 with a team most here expected to win the MACC, and who started his second season with two embarrassing losses, receives lavish praise and understanding from the same folks. Now you guys want to be taken seriously? Paaaleeeese.

I was one of the biggest PJ fans and “flecktards” out there... I don’t mind threads on what he is up to... I don’t mind looking fondly on his time here from time to time...

What I do not like... is PJ raided our coffers when he left. He was a ***** about his “rtb” crap that he had us poster everything with... and he even tried to take existing players... ie Spillane.

Guy is in Minn. we can appreciate his time here... but he’s a narcissistic dick and I am fine he’s gone.

Time to get on board with our boy Tim... who’s been nothing but class. He’s been engaging the entire sports world at WMU and he’s a poster child for what WMU can do for you. We should hope he does well...

And he’s doing it... takes time and a true understanding of what it takes to take over a team late... wasn’t like Lester came in year one right after a bad year in the fall... he showed up in February! Cobbled together a fabulous recruiting class with no time... and hit the ground running.

edit - I hope you understood I meant February of his FIRST year...

(09-26-2018 09:55 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(09-26-2018 07:58 PM)brovol Wrote:  Boy, Fleck must have been one heck of a coach then, getting to the Cotton Bowl with a bunch of marginal players (many of whom got NFL opportunities).

It is funny how the guy who some folks here despised well before he coached a game for us, and who the same folks trashed for being incompetent during his first year, and then refused to acknowledge progress despite getting to consecutive bowl games, winning the second, during his second and third years, then got further criticized during and after he led the team to an undefeated regular season and highest ranking in school history, still can't get an ounce of credit, but instead the guy who finished 6-6 with a team most here expected to win the MACC, and who started his second season with two embarrassing losses, receives lavish praise and understanding from the same folks. Now you guys want to be taken seriously? Paaaleeeese.

I was one of the biggest PJ fans and “flecktards” out there... I don’t mind threads on what he is up to... I don’t mind looking fondly on his time here from time to time...

What I do not like... is PJ raided our coffers when he left. He was a ***** about his “rtb” crap that he had us poster everything with... and he even tried to take existing players... ie Spillane.

Guy is in Minn. we can appreciate his time here... but he’s a narcissistic dick and I am fine he’s gone.

Time to get on board with our boy Tim... who’s been nothing but class. He’s been engaging the entire sports world at WMU and he’s a poster child for what WMU can do for you. We should hope he does well...

And he’s doing it... takes time and a true understanding of what it takes to take over a team late... wasn’t like Lester came in year one right after a bad year in the fall... he showed up in February! Cobbled together a fabulous recruiting class with no time... and hit the ground running.

edit - I hope you understood I meant February of his FIRST year...

I completely agree with your comments, and have said exactly the same things many times. My comments though are directed at those who were antagonistic towards fleck from the beginning, and who now tend to give Lester unearned credit as if it proves that he is doing better than Fleck, when in fact it is just the opposite.

I have always supported my children, but that doesn't mean I tell them they are doing great when I see they are making mistakes. I want Lester to win here, but I'm not going to pretend like he has done well when quite the opposite is true. He has not done well so far, and short of beating up on a couple poor teams the last couple weeks, there is very little to suggest that this will change. The only real positive thing he has done has been last year's recruiting class. As to the recruiting, the contention that Lester is recruiting"better" than Fleck simply isn't true. Fleck had three years in a row of the top MAC classes. Lester had one year with the second best class in the MAC according to the 247. That's great, but certainly not better than what Fleck did while he was here.

(09-27-2018 04:59 AM)brovol Wrote:  My comments though are directed at those who were antagonistic towards fleck from the beginning, and who now tend to give Lester unearned credit as if it proves that he is doing better than Fleck, when in fact it is just the opposite.

Fleck had three years in a row of the top MAC classes. Lester had one year with the second best class in the MAC according to the 247. That's great, but certainly not better than what Fleck did while he was here.

Who are these people? I don't see anyone doing that, it's like you're arguing with ghosts.

Also, per your previous post fleck did not have the top recruiting classes in the the mac 3 years in a row, unless you count player average... but if you are doing that then Lester had the highest rated class in the MAC in 2018. That doesn't matter anyway because by every metric 2018 was the best recruiting class we've ever had which means so far he's recruiting at a higher level than previous coaches. That's a real thing to give him credit for, because it actually happened and can be proven.

Emotional healing can sometimes take several years.

First step is to embrace the pain and recognize there is little you can do to change what happened.

I personally have a love/hate thing about Fleck. He did bring a level of success, a once in a lifetime season. But he also abandoned WMU in a stone cold manner, rather ugly actually. I don’t forgive abandonment. Very low class stuff.

Coach Lester should not be compared with Fleck. They could not be more different. All the comparisons, expectations, meaningless debates, are just so much noise.

We have a new coach, a rapidly developing football team, and every reason to think we will proceed in a new direction just fine. We will be proud of our school, our team, and the WMU leadership and community. We will have new hero’s to add to the long list of those who have gone before.

It’s time to heal. Past time. Just saying. Love my Broncos win lose or draw.

(09-27-2018 06:01 AM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  Emotional healing can sometimes take several years.

First step is to embrace the pain and recognize there is little you can do to change what happened.

I personally have a love/hate thing about Fleck. He did bring a level of success, a once in a lifetime season. But he also abandoned WMU in a stone cold manner, rather ugly actually. I don’t forgive abandonment. Very low class stuff.

Coach Lester should not be compared with Fleck. They could not be more different. All the comparisons, expectations, meaningless debates, are just so much noise.

We have a new coach, a rapidly developing football team, and every reason to think we will proceed in a new direction just fine. We will be proud of our school, our team, and the WMU leadership and community. We will have new hero’s to add to the long list of those who have gone before.

It’s time to heal. Past time. Just saying. Love my Broncos win lose or draw.

^^^ This.

Those stuck in the past need to move on.

(09-27-2018 07:06 AM)Aimless1 Wrote:  

(09-27-2018 06:01 AM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  Emotional healing can sometimes take several years.

First step is to embrace the pain and recognize there is little you can do to change what happened.

I personally have a love/hate thing about Fleck. He did bring a level of success, a once in a lifetime season. But he also abandoned WMU in a stone cold manner, rather ugly actually. I don’t forgive abandonment. Very low class stuff.

Coach Lester should not be compared with Fleck. They could not be more different. All the comparisons, expectations, meaningless debates, are just so much noise.

We have a new coach, a rapidly developing football team, and every reason to think we will proceed in a new direction just fine. We will be proud of our school, our team, and the WMU leadership and community. We will have new hero’s to add to the long list of those who have gone before.

It’s time to heal. Past time. Just saying. Love my Broncos win lose or draw.

^^^ This.

Those stuck in the past need to move on.

Agreed!

(09-27-2018 06:01 AM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  Emotional healing can sometimes take several years.

First step is to embrace the pain and recognize there is little you can do to change what happened.

I personally have a love/hate thing about Fleck. He did bring a level of success, a once in a lifetime season. But he also abandoned WMU in a stone cold manner, rather ugly actually. I don’t forgive abandonment. Very low class stuff.

Coach Lester should not be compared with Fleck. They could not be more different. All the comparisons, expectations, meaningless debates, are just so much noise.

We have a new coach, a rapidly developing football team, and every reason to think we will proceed in a new direction just fine. We will be proud of our school, our team, and the WMU leadership and community. We will have new hero’s to add to the long list of those who have gone before.

It’s time to heal. Past time. Just saying. Love my Broncos win lose or draw.

Coaches are compared at every school, past vs present. Lester will be judged on his own merit, and should be. I have and will do nothing less. And indeed I pray that he exceeds the accomplishments of his predecessor. But I expected far more out of last year's and this year's teams than what I have seen on the field.

For you the relationship with fleck may have been love hate, but for many it was hate hate, and to suggest otherwise is disingenuous. The guy had a personality that drove many here nuts right from the beginning. I get that, but the guys style did work, so those folks should probably acknowledge the same.

I call things the way I see them. Sometimes I am wrong, and I'll own that. I sincerely hope I am wrong about Lester, or at least with my perception that his philosophies and mechanisms don't translate to high level winning on the field. If I am, I promise that I will own it.

I love my Broncos, win or lose; but I'll confess that I squeeze then a bit tighter and closer to my heart when we are winning. Lol.

(09-27-2018 05:54 AM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(09-27-2018 04:59 AM)brovol Wrote:  My comments though are directed at those who were antagonistic towards fleck from the beginning, and who now tend to give Lester unearned credit as if it proves that he is doing better than Fleck, when in fact it is just the opposite.

Fleck had three years in a row of the top MAC classes. Lester had one year with the second best class in the MAC according to the 247. That's great, but certainly not better than what Fleck did while he was here.

Who are these people? I don't see anyone doing that, it's like you're arguing with ghosts.

Also, per your previous post fleck did not have the top recruiting classes in the the mac 3 years in a row, unless you count player average... but if you are doing that then Lester had the highest rated class in the MAC in 2018. That doesn't matter anyway because by every metric 2018 was the best recruiting class we've ever had which means so far he's recruiting at a higher level than previous coaches. That's a real thing to give him credit for, because it actually happened and can be proven.

Looks like you arrived on this board in 2015, well after Fleck got here. So I suppose it's possible you don't know the posters I am referring to. But they do.

As to the recruiting classes, my earlier post cites exactly what the rankings were in each season, per 247. For a three year period, those Fleck classes were the best in the MAC, and the best in school history. Last year's class that Lester brought in was also outstanding. Per 247 it was the second ranked class in the MAC. Classes are all subjectively assessed. So debate always exists. But my posts have been accurate.

Lester's class was only ranked a bit lower because it was smaller, in fairness.

The best way to evaluate recruiting is by on-the-field results, not subjective stars before a kid has played a down of college ball or stayed a night on campus.

Bottom-line, Fleck's recruits won a MAC Championship and DOMINATED rival Central Michigan.

After four years, I am confident Lester's recruits will have similar, if not superior, results.

For the immediate, however, it is premature to compare. Not enough data (results) from Lester to make a fair evaluation.

(09-27-2018 07:22 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(09-27-2018 05:54 AM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(09-27-2018 04:59 AM)brovol Wrote:  My comments though are directed at those who were antagonistic towards fleck from the beginning, and who now tend to give Lester unearned credit as if it proves that he is doing better than Fleck, when in fact it is just the opposite.

Fleck had three years in a row of the top MAC classes. Lester had one year with the second best class in the MAC according to the 247. That's great, but certainly not better than what Fleck did while he was here.

Who are these people? I don't see anyone doing that, it's like you're arguing with ghosts.

Also, per your previous post fleck did not have the top recruiting classes in the the mac 3 years in a row, unless you count player average... but if you are doing that then Lester had the highest rated class in the MAC in 2018. That doesn't matter anyway because by every metric 2018 was the best recruiting class we've ever had which means so far he's recruiting at a higher level than previous coaches. That's a real thing to give him credit for, because it actually happened and can be proven.

Looks like you arrived on this board in 2015, well after Fleck got here. So I suppose it's possible you don't know the posters I am referring to. But they do.

As to the recruiting classes, my earlier post cites exactly what the rankings were in each season, per 247. For a three year period, those Fleck classes were the best in the MAC, and the best in school history. Last year's class that Lester brought in was also outstanding. Per 247 it was the second ranked class in the MAC. Classes are all subjectively assessed. So debate always exists. But my posts have been accurate.

I place very little veracity in recruiting rankings. Case in point; Steven was rated a 2* by Rivals and has played in every single game since he was a true freshman at Syracuse. Another kid from Alabama, signed to Auburn, saw some action in 25 games over a 4 year career, and red-shirted as a freshman. He had virtually no impact whatsoever on the field.

Another case in point; SU schooled FSU. SU has very few, if any 4* players (DeVito the only exception I know of). FSU is chock full of blue-chip players.

(09-27-2018 06:01 AM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  Emotional healing can sometimes take several years.

First step is to embrace the pain and recognize there is little you can do to change what happened.

I personally have a love/hate thing about Fleck. He did bring a level of success, a once in a lifetime season. But he also abandoned WMU in a stone cold manner, rather ugly actually. I don’t forgive abandonment. Very low class stuff.

Coach Lester should not be compared with Fleck. They could not be more different. All the comparisons, expectations, meaningless debates, are just so much noise.

We have a new coach, a rapidly developing football team, and every reason to think we will proceed in a new direction just fine. We will be proud of our school, our team, and the WMU leadership and community. We will have new hero’s to add to the long list of those who have gone before.

It’s time to heal. Past time. Just saying. Love my Broncos win lose or draw.