(12-10-2017 03:54 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(12-10-2017 03:48 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  This is true. But the overall goal of the G5 should not be for their individual schools to be "promoted" into the weird cartel. It should be for all conferences in the same subdivision be treated equally in terms of playoff access. Not money...but access.

Its not money that is killing us. It is lack of access.

Every single player in FBS football should have a defined path to a National Championship. Win your conference championship....win the playoffs....you are National Champs.

Now that might be unlikely...almost impossible...for a ULM or Charlotte. But the opportunity would exist and it would all depend on what they did on the field.

And that is a real sport.

I'm not convinced there's a lack of access to the CFP yet.

Can you really say with confidence UCF is one of the 4 best teams in the country? I can't. Not at all. Their defense is not in the same galaxy as those of Clemson, UGA, and Alabama.

I'm not worried at all that my team or any Sun Belt team will have a legit top 4 team and get left out. The CFP will expand well before that, I am sure.

That is the point. Nobody freaking knows. Because it is a beauty contest decided by a committee and not an athletic competition. Its the same as if a bunch of French and Russian judges held up cards with numbers on them.

Am I sure that Alabama is one of the best 4 teams in the country? Uh, no I am not sure. Nobody is.

I want you to do away with committees, polls, computers, talking heads, Condoleeza Rice, conference reputations, money, tv ratings, etc. and have a playoff between the winners of each of the conferences in the league. Like a sport.

(12-10-2017 03:54 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(12-10-2017 03:48 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  This is true. But the overall goal of the G5 should not be for their individual schools to be "promoted" into the weird cartel. It should be for all conferences in the same subdivision be treated equally in terms of playoff access. Not money...but access.

Its not money that is killing us. It is lack of access.

Every single player in FBS football should have a defined path to a National Championship. Win your conference championship....win the playoffs....you are National Champs.

Now that might be unlikely...almost impossible...for a ULM or Charlotte. But the opportunity would exist and it would all depend on what they did on the field.

And that is a real sport.

I'm not convinced there's a lack of access to the CFP yet.

Can you really say with confidence UCF is one of the 4 best teams in the country? I can't. Not at all. Their defense is not in the same galaxy as those of Clemson, UGA, and Alabama.

I'm not worried at all that my team or any Sun Belt team will have a legit top 4 team and get left out. The CFP will expand well before that, I am sure.

I'm with you on this. Had UCF not had their game against GA Tech canceled due to the hurricane, had UCF destroyed GA Tech and still wound up undefeated, the CFP would have faced a barrage of pressure to be inclusive and add UCF to the 4-team playoff. Not saying they would have made it, I'm just saying had all of the above played out and they were snubbed, the pressure on the CFP would have lasted well beyond the end of the season.

Woulda-coulda-shoulda, right?

(12-07-2017 08:07 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(12-07-2017 01:40 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  

(12-07-2017 01:27 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  To play devil's advocate, if C-USA is a failing model, is the Sun Belt successful? If so, how? If not, why not?

We are all successful in that we are on TV all the time, make a lot more $ and have a higher profile than programs in FCS. I think the point is that CUSA had a plan to separate from the pack with big markets and a TV deal that was soon to expire. Now that we are all clearly in the same boat as G5 conferences, we can either be content with being in a better position than FCS or we can find ways to maximize revenue and interest.

Reducing travel costs for non-revenue sports only boosts the revenue that we need for facilities, salaries, recruiting budgets, etc. If people are more interested in seeing Arkansas State play Southern miss than Arkansas State playing CCU and USM playing ODU then it is a bonus.

We are seeing former strong programs like Nebraska, Tennessee, Colorado and Arkansas struggle to get back to where they were because the G5 and lower P5 programs in the states they once raided for talent are now providing everything they can provide. Bowl games, great facilities, every game televised back home, lots of uniform combos, etc. are all things that once distinguished the P5 programs in "talent deserts". They could go in and get quality players and did not have to worry as much about someone coming into their turf.

We are starting to pay our HC candidates $1 million, we pay stipends and we are all upgrading our facilities. If markets don't do the trick, it is time to go back to the drawing board.

Being on TV all the time also comes at a price. Lost revenues in ticket sales for games played during the week is a killer. Unless something changes I've resigned myself to the fact App and Ga Southern will never play again on Saturday. There's no telling how much that costs each school, but I'm quite certain App would be getting crowds in the mid 30+ range instead of the low 20's. I'd say it has the same impact on Ga Southern. Weeknight TV games are season a ticket destroyer, especially for a school with a fan base 2+ hours away. Those two Thursday night home games we had two years ago killed season ticket sales.

The Mountain West may become an interesting case study in this. Their attendance is declining. They point to late starts as a primary reason. They have floated the idea of moving to an all digital tv platform (The Mountain West Digital Network) with complete control over start times. This concept prioritizes fans that actually show up to the games over TV networks and would allow the schools to set the kickoff times that maximizes attendance and "in stadium" revenue.

The expectation is that TV revenue would fall--but most would be made up by "in stadium" revenue and increased donations generated by a happy growing "catered to" fan base.

(12-10-2017 06:07 PM)airtroop Wrote:  

(12-10-2017 03:54 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(12-10-2017 03:48 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  This is true. But the overall goal of the G5 should not be for their individual schools to be "promoted" into the weird cartel. It should be for all conferences in the same subdivision be treated equally in terms of playoff access. Not money...but access.

Its not money that is killing us. It is lack of access.

Every single player in FBS football should have a defined path to a National Championship. Win your conference championship....win the playoffs....you are National Champs.

Now that might be unlikely...almost impossible...for a ULM or Charlotte. But the opportunity would exist and it would all depend on what they did on the field.

And that is a real sport.

I'm not convinced there's a lack of access to the CFP yet.

Can you really say with confidence UCF is one of the 4 best teams in the country? I can't. Not at all. Their defense is not in the same galaxy as those of Clemson, UGA, and Alabama.

I'm not worried at all that my team or any Sun Belt team will have a legit top 4 team and get left out. The CFP will expand well before that, I am sure.

I'm with you on this. Had UCF not had their game against GA Tech canceled due to the hurricane, had UCF destroyed GA Tech and still wound up undefeated, the CFP would have faced a barrage of pressure to be inclusive and add UCF to the 4-team playoff. Not saying they would have made it, I'm just saying had all of the above played out and they were snubbed, the pressure on the CFP would have lasted well beyond the end of the season.

Woulda-coulda-shoulda, right?

Yelling that we are not chosen by P5 insiders for a 4-team playoff shouldn't be the issue. We should be yelling to get rid of the system of P5 insiders choosing a 4-team playoff.

The fact that two SEC teams are in the playoff and the Big Ten (probably even more powerful and influential than the SEC and is the main reason it took so dadgum long to get rid of the BCS) was left out of the playoff tells me the selection process is reasonably independent and not motivated by maximizing the TV ratings.

(12-11-2017 09:48 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  The fact that two SEC teams are in the playoff and the Big Ten (probably even more powerful and influential than the SEC and is the main reason it took so dadgum long to get rid of the BCS) was left out of the playoff tells me the selection process is reasonably independent and not motivated by maximizing the TV ratings.

It's also why the playoff will eventually expand. At least one P5 has to be left out every year and sometimes it is 2 left out. Those conferences are eventually going to push to expand and TV will be more than happy to do it.

It took years to get from no system to the BCS, years to get from the two team NCS to a 4 team playoff and it will take even fewer years to expand again. Hopefully we eventually we get to a true champion being crowned with a 16 team playoff. At a minimum we should get an 8 team playoff with the G5 having a guaranteed seat.

If we prevented the creation of the CFP and the BCS and the Bowl Alliance and whatever the other one was called how would anything change?

UCF most likely would not be in a bowl facing the #1 or #2 and maybe not the #3 or #4 team in the country and will still not be in the hunt to become undefeated national champions.

Only thing that has changed is UCF now has a path to the bigger games and had they had a more impressive schedule, maybe even the playoff. Remember Houston before they tripped and fell in the mud and got up and did it again was a legit CFP contender.

Just an opinion from someone on the outside looking in; wouldnt you all want to just combine the Sun Belt East and CUSA East teams into a conference (maroon icons on map) and then combine the Sun Belt West and CUSA West teams into a conference (blue icons on the map)? I don't know about some of the rivalries but seems like it would make travel easier for almost every team involved.

(12-11-2017 03:33 PM)brock20 Wrote:  Just an opinion from someone on the outside looking in; wouldnt you all want to just combine the Sun Belt East and CUSA East teams into a conference (maroon icons on map) and then combine the Sun Belt West and CUSA West teams into a conference (blue icons on the map)? I don't know about some of the rivalries but seems like it would make travel easier for almost every team involved.

We all love what has been built in the Sun Belt. But we've discussed this before. I think most of us think this is a good idea, but egos.

(12-11-2017 03:44 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(12-11-2017 03:33 PM)brock20 Wrote:  Just an opinion from someone on the outside looking in; wouldnt you all want to just combine the Sun Belt East and CUSA East teams into a conference (maroon icons on map) and then combine the Sun Belt West and CUSA West teams into a conference (blue icons on the map)? I don't know about some of the rivalries but seems like it would make travel easier for almost every team involved.

We all love what has been built in the Sun Belt. But we've discussed this before. I think most of us think this is a good idea, but egos.

Yep. Ego. When you spend years telling your fans that you are better than someone when we all know that it is not the case, it is hard to admit that you should make changes. That split make so much sense. Then you work out an out of conference scheduling agreement between the two for two OOC games a year on your schedule. Fill the other two slots with an FCS and a big money game and you are set.

(12-11-2017 03:49 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  

(12-11-2017 03:44 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(12-11-2017 03:33 PM)brock20 Wrote:  Just an opinion from someone on the outside looking in; wouldnt you all want to just combine the Sun Belt East and CUSA East teams into a conference (maroon icons on map) and then combine the Sun Belt West and CUSA West teams into a conference (blue icons on the map)? I don't know about some of the rivalries but seems like it would make travel easier for almost every team involved.

We all love what has been built in the Sun Belt. But we've discussed this before. I think most of us think this is a good idea, but egos.

Yep. Ego. When you spend years telling your fans that you are better than someone when we all know that it is not the case, it is hard to admit that you should make changes. That split make so much sense. Then you work out an out of conference scheduling agreement between the two for two OOC games a year on your schedule. Fill the other two slots with an FCS and a big money game and you are set.

Sounds good to me call Karl

(12-11-2017 03:49 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  

(12-11-2017 03:44 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(12-11-2017 03:33 PM)brock20 Wrote:  Just an opinion from someone on the outside looking in; wouldnt you all want to just combine the Sun Belt East and CUSA East teams into a conference (maroon icons on map) and then combine the Sun Belt West and CUSA West teams into a conference (blue icons on the map)? I don't know about some of the rivalries but seems like it would make travel easier for almost every team involved.

We all love what has been built in the Sun Belt. But we've discussed this before. I think most of us think this is a good idea, but egos.

Yep. Ego. When you spend years telling your fans that you are better than someone when we all know that it is not the case, it is hard to admit that you should make changes. That split make so much sense. Then you work out an out of conference scheduling agreement between the two for two OOC games a year on your schedule. Fill the other two slots with an FCS and a big money game and you are set.

Sounds good to me call Karl

I would like to trade UAB for Troy though!

Most of us in CUSA would be down for this to happen as well except for the select few who already think they're above their current conference mates (including the conference champion) all because they have "history." That's probably why it'll never happen.

(12-11-2017 04:05 PM)thefaU Wrote:  Most of us in CUSA would be down for this to happen as well except for the select few who already think they're above their current conference mates (including the conference champion) all because they have "history." That's probably why it'll never happen.

What teams would that be? May make sense to leave them out of the mix.

(12-11-2017 04:15 PM)brock20 Wrote:  What teams would that be? May make sense to leave them out of the mix.

It's mostly CUSA 1.0 teams who got "left behind" when their mates moved to a "better" conference. (See: Southern Miss)

Perhaps in a few years the college football landscape will be different and a realignment is possible, but I don't see it happening any time soon.

(12-11-2017 03:33 PM)brock20 Wrote:  Just an opinion from someone on the outside looking in; wouldnt you all want to just combine the Sun Belt East and CUSA East teams into a conference (maroon icons on map) and then combine the Sun Belt West and CUSA West teams into a conference (blue icons on the map)? I don't know about some of the rivalries but seems like it would make travel easier for almost every team involved.

Left out UALR and UTA. These two SunBelt members would vote No to the above. If one other SunBelt vote with them the above does not happen.

(12-11-2017 04:32 PM)thefaU Wrote:  

(12-11-2017 04:15 PM)brock20 Wrote:  What teams would that be? May make sense to leave them out of the mix.

It's mostly CUSA 1.0 teams who got "left behind" when their mates moved to a "better" conference. (See: Southern Miss)

Perhaps in a few years the college football landscape will be different and a realignment is possible, but I don't see it happening any time soon.

I think USM would go for this. La. Tech is probably another story.

(12-11-2017 04:58 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  I think USM would go for this. La. Tech is probably another story.

I'm not so sure about Southern Miss, but previous WAC member LA Tech is definitely a whole other issue. Lol.

CUSA 3.0 is comprised mostly of prior SBC or IND teams, it could happen if it weren't for those few holdouts.

Aaaaand for the 478th time, let's debate this. Let's hear everyone give their opinion of their favorite 12 team set up. Then let's hear someone say "I'd trade border team x for border team y". Then let's hear the stAte fans say "that setup doesn't benefit us because we don't want to be lumped in with the Texas teams". Then let's hear the eastern block teams say they don't want to be lumped in with the Florida schools.

Trust me, we've discussed this ad nauseum.

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