(08-14-2017 03:29 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(08-14-2017 07:23 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Maybe Huge has plans for moving to FBS. I'd be interested. If she's as good as everyone states with regard to fund raising, anything is possible.

Welp, you now have NJalums full attention.

Psst, we will NEVER go to a FBS conference.

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Existing- if there is a desire to create an eastern division of the MAC, we should look at it.

Existing- if there is some type of consolidation of Sun Belt-CUSA that results in a regional division, we should look at it.

Existing- my stretch / pipe dream at this point would be American.

Creative- move up as a conference, and take NCAA to court if have to. Kill two birds with one stone, and while in court, bring the feathers back.

But first things first ... sale of alcohol at Cary / Zable.

(08-14-2017 08:19 PM)Rocco Wrote:  What if someone here hits the Powerball and writes W&M a check to go FBS?

Still no.

Look. In spite of what some (like nj alum) will tell you, going FBS isn't going to magically bring fans to our games. It's not going to magically flood a ton of money (lottery or not). It won't suddenly make us able to field a competitive FBS team with our academic standards. It's not going to magically solve problems we'd have trying to build the size stadium you'd need in Williamsburg.

I really don't want to get into the weeds of it - but how many schools that have made the jump in say.. the last 15 years...are in a spot where you'd go "yeah, that's something I want W&M to be a part of"?

I'll explain, again, what I want W&M to be part of.

Initially, years ago, I advocated an attempt to join the ACC if a spot opened. Money, TV contracts, etc.

It then became apparent that this was an arms race that W&M should avoid.

I think must folks would like to see W&M in the second tier, and I concur.

What is the second tier? Lot of definitions fit the bill.

For me, second tier means that W&M still plays with, and competes with, ACC schools, even if the ACC schools don't come to W'burg for football and men's hoops.

Currently, W&M has that.

My concern is the day when W&M will have a choice - spend money / join a conference / upgrade to maintain the status quo, or be faced with the real possibility of a drop down / downgrade.

I am also concerned about current student support (tomorrow's alumni). While an upgrade does not guarantee increased student support, that issue should be considered and explored.

As to your point about schools that made the jump, most of those schools were below W&M, or had non-existent programs back in the day W&M was D-1.

I don't need to remind you that W&M went to UVa and went to VPI, in 1976, in the same year, and beat both schools in football, and had a one point loss at home to ECU.

Here it is, 41 years later. I'll bet the financial support for Tribe football is better now than it was in 1976, despite the drop-down forced by the NCAA.

Our school needs to fight for itself. Even if we are not in the same conference, we need to be on par as much as possible with VPI, and most certainly, UVa, let alone Richmond.

One could argue that we are currently on par with none of those three.

Let me close by referencing English football. The top tier is the Premier League. In the Premier league, one has the top clubs (P5), the middle clubs (G5), and the bottom clubs trying to avoid relegation. W&M, in my opinion, finds itself trying to avoid relegation.

People with their heads in the sand are missing a very important part of why we're not getting more fans. We DON'T market aggressively to the local community. We have a lot of season ticket holders who come every game from Richmond, Norfolk, and even Northern Virginia. With a metro area of about half a million between New Kent and Hampton on the Peninsula, we should be drawing better. Stadium is upgraded, and quite frankly Williamsburg has a lot of stuff to do before and after the game. Ms. Huge will be focusing on things like this. I'm tired of blaming it on all the old people in Williamsburg.

RTD article on JMU this morning kinda says it all...simply winning begets alot.

Sales of season tickets, merchandise follow rise of James Madison football
http://www.richmond.com/sports/sales-of-...22edc.html

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(08-15-2017 08:36 AM)nj alum Wrote:  I'll explain, again, what I want W&M to be part of.

Initially, years ago, I advocated an attempt to join the ACC if a spot opened. Money, TV contracts, etc.

It then became apparent that this was an arms race that W&M should avoid.

I think must folks would like to see W&M in the second tier, and I concur.

What is the second tier? Lot of definitions fit the bill.

For me, second tier means that W&M still plays with, and competes with, ACC schools, even if the ACC schools don't come to W'burg for football and men's hoops.

Currently, W&M has that.

My concern is the day when W&M will have a choice - spend money / join a conference / upgrade to maintain the status quo, or be faced with the real possibility of a drop down / downgrade.

I am also concerned about current student support (tomorrow's alumni). While an upgrade does not guarantee increased student support, that issue should be considered and explored.

As to your point about schools that made the jump, most of those schools were below W&M, or had non-existent programs back in the day W&M was D-1.

I don't need to remind you that W&M went to UVa and went to VPI, in 1976, in the same year, and beat both schools in football, and had a one point loss at home to ECU.

Here it is, 41 years later. I'll bet the financial support for Tribe football is better now than it was in 1976, despite the drop-down forced by the NCAA.

Our school needs to fight for itself. Even if we are not in the same conference, we need to be on par as much as possible with VPI, and most certainly, UVa, let alone Richmond.

One could argue that we are currently on par with none of those three.

Let me close by referencing English football. The top tier is the Premier League. In the Premier league, one has the top clubs (P5), the middle clubs (G5), and the bottom clubs trying to avoid relegation. W&M, in my opinion, finds itself trying to avoid relegation.

I agree with everything NJ said. I don't think anyone wants to sell our soul for "big time football" but it'd be nice to not fall farther and farther into the rearview mirror of former peers.

There is a balance we just have to be willing to find (and finance) it

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(08-14-2017 03:29 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(08-14-2017 07:23 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Maybe Huge has plans for moving to FBS. I'd be interested. If she's as good as everyone states with regard to fund raising, anything is possible.

Welp, you now have NJalums full attention.

Psst, we will NEVER go to a FBS conference.

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Look what you've done.

(08-15-2017 05:14 PM)Rocco Wrote:  

(08-14-2017 03:29 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(08-14-2017 07:23 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Maybe Huge has plans for moving to FBS. I'd be interested. If she's as good as everyone states with regard to fund raising, anything is possible.

Welp, you now have NJalums full attention.

Psst, we will NEVER go to a FBS conference.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Look what you've done.

:-)

(08-15-2017 05:14 PM)Rocco Wrote:  

(08-14-2017 03:29 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(08-14-2017 07:23 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Maybe Huge has plans for moving to FBS. I'd be interested. If she's as good as everyone states with regard to fund raising, anything is possible.

Welp, you now have NJalums full attention.

Psst, we will NEVER go to a FBS conference.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Look what you've done.

...again.

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Am uncertain on suitability of PL as home for Tribe athletics. Am absolutely certain that the math and numbers for Tribe athletics will remain challenging absent an epic For the Bold donor windfall.

Earlier in this thread concern was expressed that W&M was being left behind by its peers which begs for research into which colleges constitute 21st century athletic peers of the College.

Enrollment size at W&M constrains the contribution that student athletic fees can make to the athletic budget. If one googles undergrad enrollment numbers for the ten basketball members of the CAA, only Elon could be characterized as an enrollment peer of W&M. The other schools' enrollments are two to three times the College's.

Surf around on Princeton Review and only Northeastern of the above group looks to be an entrance requirement peer.

W&M supports 21 sports. Mention of this number is not a value judgment, but is an important data point. How many schools with an athletic budget the size of the College's play FCS football and support 21 sports? Who are the peers from this perspective?

Am personally suspicious that Tribe spending on football and men's basketball would look rather SOCON-like if subjected to comparison. Before sparks fly, I have no opinion on the SOCON as a home for Tribe athletics, but it would be useful to know what schools are athletic budget peers of W&M?

There may be intangibles (or unarticulated tangibles) that result in the College seeking a more mid-Atlantic/northeastern athletic footprint. On the surface, however, if there are future defections from the CAA, it would appear that the biggest reason W&M would remain in the CAA is because it has been in the CAA, not because it's affiliated with peers. There are no at large NCAA basketball berths to be had in the CAA, and a 7-4 football record doesn't, at least for W&M, buy post-season football playoff participation.

There is a lot that is right about W&M athletics; the biggest prescription for any aspects that are less right at this juncture is additional year-in/year-out winning and the corresponding impact it has on attendance and donations. It may not matter very much whether the win comes versus Lafayette, Furman, or Towson. If the majority of the Tribe's revenue sport competition consists of contests with institutions who have built-in enrollment, budgetary, and entrance requirement advantages, additional winning may remain problematic.

Maybe the donations being sought in the ten year plan will be sufficient to compensate for the CAA enrollment/sports supported mismatch, but most organizations would also undertake a "start with the end in mind" objective review of where they fit in an unfolding competitive landscape. It's worth being able to explain why where you got left is preferable to any other arrangement. One would think the athletes, recruits, students, alumni, donors, and fans would applaud such an undertaking.