(02-11-2016 02:53 PM)emu79 Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 01:47 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 01:29 PM)emu79 Wrote:  Remember it was Bob who thought Keno Davis was a better coach than Murphy. Maybe that's why he switched over to Kampe.

Keno was national coach of the year and was MAC coach of the year, so technically he is a better coach than Murphy. What is your point?

That he couldn't beat Murphy this year to save his life. By the way do you use to Tide or Cheer to wash that I love Keno jersey? Yeah lets not a history lesson with Keno unless we're going to talk about his ENTIRE history shall we?

Is it really any surprise? This is the same guy who also just LOVES that coward, Ron English.

(02-11-2016 04:27 PM)EagleTough Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 02:53 PM)emu79 Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 01:47 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 01:29 PM)emu79 Wrote:  Remember it was Bob who thought Keno Davis was a better coach than Murphy. Maybe that's why he switched over to Kampe.

Keno was national coach of the year and was MAC coach of the year, so technically he is a better coach than Murphy. What is your point?

That he couldn't beat Murphy this year to save his life. By the way do you use to Tide or Cheer to wash that I love Keno jersey? Yeah lets not a history lesson with Keno unless we're going to talk about his ENTIRE history shall we?

Is it really any surprise? This is the same guy who also just LOVES that coward, Ron English.

There is no correlation. Terrible argument.

(02-11-2016 04:29 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 04:27 PM)EagleTough Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 02:53 PM)emu79 Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 01:47 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 01:29 PM)emu79 Wrote:  Remember it was Bob who thought Keno Davis was a better coach than Murphy. Maybe that's why he switched over to Kampe.

Keno was national coach of the year and was MAC coach of the year, so technically he is a better coach than Murphy. What is your point?

That he couldn't beat Murphy this year to save his life. By the way do you use to Tide or Cheer to wash that I love Keno jersey? Yeah lets not a history lesson with Keno unless we're going to talk about his ENTIRE history shall we?

Is it really any surprise? This is the same guy who also just LOVES that coward, Ron English.

There is no correlation. Terrible argument.

Actually 79's point was that you love to cherry pick to make your point, instead of looking at the ENTIRE history. Very applicable to English & Keno.

You love to tout English's wondrous 6-6 season, but conveniently leave out the 5-40 record the other 4 seasons. Not to mention he was FIRED for being such a POS.

I honestly don't know much about Keno, but a quick google search shows in his first 6 years coaching D1 basketball, he's a whopping 118-105! He was forced to move DOWN to the MAC after getting fired in the better Big East. Providence cited "mediocre recruiting, poor on-court performance, and off-court issues marring the program" as reasons for his firing.

The funniest, most ironic, and most 'Bob', part of this whole Keno argument, goes back to your touting of his 'national coach of the year' credentials! You seem very impressed with the award he won while coaching for DRAKE UNIVERSITY.

The exact same DRAKE UNIVERSITY you have basically laughed at and mocked, when endlessly ranting about just how unqualified Chris Creighton must be for having coached at such a place.

So rich, so perfect, so Bob.

(02-11-2016 02:32 PM)EagleTough Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 02:28 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Bob,
Again, you are being selective. The Media Guide said that two games against Central in the eighties were 24,000. Look, I don't care if it were only one game that was a sellout. That was my point. Eastern has had sellouts since Rynearson was their stadium, and it is not located on the academic campus. So all this talk about the Convocation Center being too far away is bunk.

^^^^^^^Bingo!

Just an excuse.

I want to repeat a comment I've pretty much made before:

There are a few type of attendees for football:

1). Students, many of whom live on campus or near campus. Many have cars so, in that sense, Rynearson is perfectly convenient.

2). Locals such as faculty, staff, and folks who live in the Ypsi area (say 5 miles radius) but have no direct connection to the U.

3). Alums, etc. who might live 10, 25 or 50 or more miles away.

So:

1). Students should turn out. Those on campus without cars have access to shuttles.
I don't see location as being a primary problem. Those off campus - no excuses. These kids love to tail gate and that is a big part of the game day experience.

2). Locals - simply a case of interest or disinterest in the program. This is where we see bandwagon or fair weather fans.

3). Those alums who live 30, 45, 60, 75 minutes away... To me this is where webcasting comes in. Drive an hour each way OR watch it on a PC, tablet, etc.? Easy to sit in say Dunkin Donuts, fire up the wi-fi and have one of Super's hot cocoa and watch...

Now what does wining do?

Winning creates excitement and enthusiasm (obviously) and the opposite the opposite sentiments.

It is easy to watch a mediocre or bad product from home via webcasting. Kind of sterile experience. Kind of 'clinical' - watch and post here.

But winning produces euphoria and that is best felt in the Game Day atmosphere at the stadium, tailgating, in suites, in the student section, etc.

Winning produces the GAME DAY EXPERIENCE, excitement, enthusiasm, etc. that is best felt at the stadium.

EDIT (additional comment):

As BobW is want to mention, the Convo lacks a game day experience. Great place to watch a game but largely devoid of that Game Day Experience. I hope I live long enough to see a game with say 500 - 750 students at the game, standing, chanting, foot stomping, etc.

Then folks will want to feel the excitement, adrenaline, etc. Can anyone imagine what the end of Tuesday's game would have been like when the game started to become a dunkfest if 500 - 750 students would have gone crazy (think back to the Wisconsin game. mid-90s?).

Dear steve,
I agree with your comments.

One last thought and it is only my opinion:

If I want to watch a game as if I were scouting it, etc. I'd rather watch at home and have great camera angles, expert commentary, etc.

If I want the GAME DAY EXPERIENCE then I want to be at the venue.

(02-11-2016 05:05 PM)EagleTough Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 04:29 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 04:27 PM)EagleTough Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 02:53 PM)emu79 Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 01:47 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  Keno was national coach of the year and was MAC coach of the year, so technically he is a better coach than Murphy. What is your point?

That he couldn't beat Murphy this year to save his life. By the way do you use to Tide or Cheer to wash that I love Keno jersey? Yeah lets not a history lesson with Keno unless we're going to talk about his ENTIRE history shall we?

Is it really any surprise? This is the same guy who also just LOVES that coward, Ron English.

There is no correlation. Terrible argument.

Actually 79's point was that you love to cherry pick to make your point, instead of looking at the ENTIRE history. Very applicable to English & Keno.

You love to tout English's wondrous 6-6 season, but conveniently leave out the 5-40 record the other 4 seasons. Not to mention he was FIRED for being such a POS.

I honestly don't know much about Keno, but a quick google search shows in his first 6 years coaching D1 basketball, he's a whopping 118-105! He was forced to move DOWN to the MAC after getting fired in the better Big East. Providence cited "mediocre recruiting, poor on-court performance, and off-court issues marring the program" as reasons for his firing.

The funniest, most ironic, and most 'Bob', part of this whole Keno argument, goes back to your touting of his 'national coach of the year' credentials! You seem very impressed with the award he won while coaching for DRAKE UNIVERSITY.

The exact same DRAKE UNIVERSITY you have basically laughed at and mocked, when endlessly ranting about just how unqualified Chris Creighton must be for having coached at such a place.

So rich, so perfect, so Bob.

Drake is in the Missouri Valley Conference, which is an outstanding mid-major basketball conference! The season he won NATIONAL COACH OF THE YEAR, he did an amazing job, winning at a place where most people thought was not possible. I also happen to live in Des Moines, IA, where Drake is located, so I had a chance to follow Keno's magical run there and also got a chance to see Chris Creighton, where Drake is a non-entity in football. So not at all ironic, I have always said the MVC is a great basketball conference. The Pioneer football conference...er, not so much. Try to pay attention.

Uh.......sure thing Bob ...............

(02-11-2016 06:11 PM)emu steve Wrote:  One last thought and it is only my opinion:

If I want to watch a game as if I were scouting it, etc. I'd rather watch at home and have great camera angles, expert commentary, etc.

If I want the GAME DAY EXPERIENCE then I want to be at the venue.

The venue known as Bowen Fieldhouse?

(02-11-2016 12:43 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 12:17 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 10:54 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Friends,
I think some of us are still missing the point. It has to do with winning. Do that, and the fans will come. Rynearson was sold out during the mid to late eighties because of winning football teams, and it was just as far from the main campus as the Convocation Center is today. Was it easier to get to those locations in the eighties or nineties? I doubt it.
The other point that has been mentioned in these posts, is that students have a variety of distractions that were not available in the eighties or early nineties. I still believe that if Eastern can put together winning teams, some of that fan base will return, but I don't think it will get to where we had tens of thousands of fans as before. I wish I was wrong.

This post is just patently untrue. Rynearson has NEVER had a sell out, ever, ever, ever. Were the crowds larger in the late 80's? Yes. I was there, I know.

EMU basketball has won during the Convo years. That theory has been disproved and put to rest. No amount of winning will fill the Convo. You are clinging to a fantasy.

Two points:

1). In 1992 (?) dedication of the 'new' Rynearson had a very large crowd. One of the largest in Rynearson's history. In 1995 there were some VERY, VERY large crowds. UNLV was a '(h)uge' (the way Bernie says it) crowd. I was there and very, very impressed.

2). The problem with the 'Barnes teams' is that they followed Boykins, Dial, Wilson, Tolbert, etc. Who wants to follow them? Who CAN follow them???? It was a natural let down. Reminds me of what is happening in Fairfax (Va) with George Mason. Ten years ago March Mason went to the Final Four. Following that has been a no-win for that program and it has suffered badly (it is in total rebuild mode now). Crowds are way, way down (I was there a week ago Sunday).

Braun left Barnes with a ton of talent. The problem with Barnes is he could not coach or recruit a lick!!!

Here's my two cents. In my opinion we will probably never see a basketball coach that can recruit like Coach Murphey, straight up. I have been following Eastern sports since '01. Straight up ballers. My man can recruit. However, the thing is he is so stuborn in his ways that we can not run multiple defense packages instead of just the zone. These players are doing there best but it's not working. Other coaches in the MAC see it! He would be a GREAT recruiter at a HIGH, HIGH, major but maybe head coach isn't for him. I love coach Murph, I was at the game when we beat UofM (loved it!) but the saying goes old dogs new tricks right. Either way, at this point i'm just rambling on. GO GREEN!!!!

(02-11-2016 08:34 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 12:43 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 12:17 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 10:54 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Friends,
I think some of us are still missing the point. It has to do with winning. Do that, and the fans will come. Rynearson was sold out during the mid to late eighties because of winning football teams, and it was just as far from the main campus as the Convocation Center is today. Was it easier to get to those locations in the eighties or nineties? I doubt it.
The other point that has been mentioned in these posts, is that students have a variety of distractions that were not available in the eighties or early nineties. I still believe that if Eastern can put together winning teams, some of that fan base will return, but I don't think it will get to where we had tens of thousands of fans as before. I wish I was wrong.

This post is just patently untrue. Rynearson has NEVER had a sell out, ever, ever, ever. Were the crowds larger in the late 80's? Yes. I was there, I know.

EMU basketball has won during the Convo years. That theory has been disproved and put to rest. No amount of winning will fill the Convo. You are clinging to a fantasy.

Two points:

1). In 1992 (?) dedication of the 'new' Rynearson had a very large crowd. One of the largest in Rynearson's history. In 1995 there were some VERY, VERY large crowds. UNLV was a '(h)uge' (the way Bernie says it) crowd. I was there and very, very impressed.

2). The problem with the 'Barnes teams' is that they followed Boykins, Dial, Wilson, Tolbert, etc. Who wants to follow them? Who CAN follow them???? It was a natural let down. Reminds me of what is happening in Fairfax (Va) with George Mason. Ten years ago March Mason went to the Final Four. Following that has been a no-win for that program and it has suffered badly (it is in total rebuild mode now). Crowds are way, way down (I was there a week ago Sunday).

Braun left Barnes with a ton of talent. The problem with Barnes is he could not coach or recruit a lick!!!

And he had some hidden baggage from Minnesota

It was interesting listening to Grant Long as an analyst during the EMU vs KSU game. Grant gave all of us first person perspective as a former player describing Bowen as an "awesome" place to play because it was "rocking" with fans. He went on to say that many times Bowen had standing room only for some games. Certainly attendance is tied to winning, style of play, exciting players and what we all learned convenience for fans. Grant mentioned that Bowen was very convenient for students to take a study break and walk over to the game.

So why don't the students come to the games? 1) Lack of convenience, 2) Lack of consistent winning, 3) Lack of exciting players, 4) more alternavie entertainment options. Of course there could be a contribution from many factors; however, from the student's perspective, i have to believe inconvenience is the most weighted factor. I was able to jog from Buell Hall and be in Bowen within a couple of minutes. I wouldn't have wanted to wait for some bus especially on a cold winter's night. 2) Barnes won with Braun's players for two years and then destroyed EMU basketball. Boone brought the program to unprecedented lows because he couldn't recruit D1 players. Ramsey also couldn't win consistently. The 10 years that Braun took to make EMU a MAC and Midwest powerhouse got dismantled and certainly the fans stopped coming. 3) Lack of exciting players......I believe that Ramsaey and Murphy have brought plenty of talent to EMU and we have exciting players. 4) Although there are many entertainment options, even in my day there were video games available. So I discount that you can watch more games on TV etc


In conclusion, I have read that we have sold out Rynearson when we were good in football on a few occasions so we should be able to get fans to the convo if/when we are a MAC contender.. This is true, I was there starting in 1985 but there's a big difference between basketball and football. For Football we may have up to 5-6 home games vs 12-15 home games for basketball. Therefore I believe if we are competitive then students will make an effort for 5 football games but 15 basketball games may be too much inconvenience.

Finally, I believe student attendance is more tied to winning, exciting players and convenience than anything else. EMU has to correct student attendance so that they have a great college experience that most of their peers have at other colleges. I was at UofMs basketball game with my son a student there on Saturday and Chrysler was rocking. The atmosphere was awesome. We absolutely have to have our students attend the games which not only gives them a great college experience, the players feed off the energy and truly provides a home court advantage. The real question will become, do we move basketball back to a renovated Bowen or provide a better shuttle service so that the students feel it's very convenient to attend a game. Certainly we must have 5-7000 students that live on/close to campus and we need to get 2000 of them to show up consistently.

Lucky, I really believe we should renovate Bowen and make it the #1 home court advantage in the MAC again. In the process we can make Bowen the #1 indoor track facility, befitting of our nationally recognized track program.

Look, best case scenario, if we win BIG in basketball, we may eventually at best get 3-4 k out to the Convo, which isn't even half capacity, versus having standing room crowds at Bowen and having the MAC version of Cameron. We would really stand out and be exciting and unique.

At the same time, we STILL have the first class basketball practice facility and outstanding concert venue that is the Convo. There is no risk, no downside. We cannot draw fewer fans than we have and the Convo will remain a very useful venue.

History is truly important so that costly mistakes are not made by leaders of countries, leaders of corporations, leaders of universities, leaders of men and leaders of families. To that end, the University of Detroit provided EMU with an outstanding data point on what NOT to do in supporting a basketball venue. At one time, UofD moved their basketball venue to I believe cobo hall in the 80s and guess what. Although it was a great place for a game, no students came and there was no home court advantage for UofD. In the same regard, the Convo makes students walk out to their car and drive to an arena or wait for a bus - both alternatives very inconvenient for students. So guess what UofD did, they moved their basketball venue back to historic Calihan hall and improved their attendance tremendously doing so. I read today that our own Corey Allen from Ypsi high a Mr Basketball candidate is heading to UofD. There's no way EMU should lose to UofD in recruiting. When recruits come to our games and see a 1000 people or less, that will make them 2nd guess EMU.

EMU made a big mistake by building the beautiful Convo a car drive/bus ride away from the students. I wonder if the administration would have built the Convo on EMUs campus(I do not believe we didn't have room for it) would we be averaging 5-7000 fans and have a top paid MAC coach who could have taken EMU to a higher level than Braun. Maybe, maybe not and we will never know. However, UofD taught us having basketball off campus won't work. EMU at some point will either have to renovate Bowen and make it the most feared place to play in the MAC or devise better transportation which I honestly don't think will work. If I were Dr Lyke, I would devise a plan to get basketball back to Bowen by 2017-18 season. This would take advantage of having Mr. Thompson as a leading player in the country. Could you imagine the marketing campaign advertising that EMU Basketball is Back at Bowen......

"So guess what UofD did, they moved their basketball venue back to historic Calihan hall and improved their attendance tremendously doing so"

This is total b*ll s*it:

Other than the rivalry game between UDM and Oakland, UDM's attendance is every bit as bad as ours.

UDM's program is similar to ours (on the court) and at the turnstiles now.

RPI's last 5 years: 145-130-71-234-208 (per Blue Ribbon Yearbook).

We're: 325-244-236-87-148 (first year after Ramsey was let go, we were really bad. Now we're an above average team).

More delusional thoughts:

"EMU made a big mistake by building the beautiful Convo a car drive/bus ride away from the students. I wonder if the administration would have built the Convo on EMUs campus(I do not believe we didn't have room for it) would we be averaging 5-7000 fans and have a top paid MAC coach who could have taken EMU to a higher level than Braun."

At Bowen the typical crowd was around 2K+ (Bowen actually seated around 4,500, not 5K+) and we had very good teams. Two thousand looked really good, sounded very loud, etc. etc. because Bowen was essentially a high school gym.

For those who don't know, it had NO permanent seating at court level. Bowen was (is) an indoor track and field facility with 3K bleachers which pulled out. It was essentially a high school type facility. There were (are) I believe say 1,200 - 1,400 seats up in the balcony.

The notion that we'd regularly draw say 4K is just not true... We had one huge crowd I can remember, vs. Wisconsin, and that was around 4,500.

And this was during the era where if one wanted to watch EMU play one had to get off the couch and get to Bowen... No television.

Again, comparing apples to apples and not oranges, we have never had teams like we did say 1991 - 98 (with some rebuilding years interspersed).

I believe it was Dec '97 that we actually were nationally ranked for a short while.

What would attendance be like at the Convo IF we were nationally ranked???

IF we were top 25 and played a nationally ranked B1G team, wouldn't we draw say 4 or 5K like we did for the Wisconsin game (we weren't nationally ranked then, but an improving team, played nationally ranked WI, led by Rashard Griffith and Michael Finley)?

Couldn't we draw 4,500 to the Convo if we were top 25 and playing say Indiana??

If we were top 25 playing say MSU, how about 6K?

(02-15-2016 05:02 AM)emu steve Wrote:  More delusional thoughts:

"EMU made a big mistake by building the beautiful Convo a car drive/bus ride away from the students. I wonder if the administration would have built the Convo on EMUs campus(I do not believe we didn't have room for it) would we be averaging 5-7000 fans and have a top paid MAC coach who could have taken EMU to a higher level than Braun."

At Bowen the typical crowd was around 2K+ (Bowen actually seated around 4,500, not 5K+) and we had very good teams. Two thousand looked really good, sounded very loud, etc. etc. because Bowen was essentially a high school gym.

For those who don't know, it had NO permanent seating at court level. Bowen was (is) an indoor track and field facility with 3K bleachers which pulled out. It was essentially a high school type facility. There were (are) I believe say 1,200 - 1,400 seats up in the balcony.

The notion that we'd regularly draw say 4K is just not true... We had one huge crowd I can remember, vs. Wisconsin, and that was around 4,500.

And this was during the era where if one wanted to watch EMU play one had to get off the couch and get to Bowen... No television.

Again, comparing apples to apples and not oranges, we have never had teams like we did say 1991 - 98 (with some rebuilding years interspersed).

I believe it was Dec '97 that we actually were nationally ranked for a short while.

What would attendance be like at the Convo IF we were nationally ranked???

IF we were top 25 and played a nationally ranked B1G team, wouldn't we draw say 4 or 5K like we did for the Wisconsin game (we weren't nationally ranked then, but an improving team, played nationally ranked WI, led by Rashard Griffith and Michael Finley)?

Couldn't we draw 4,500 to the Convo if we were top 25 and playing say Indiana??

If we were top 25 playing say MSU, how about 6K?

Wow! A lot of inaccuracies in that mammoth post. Attendance was outstanding in Bowen from the time I set foot on campus, 1986 and well beyond. It is much bigger than a high school gym as it is A FIELDHOUSE!!! It is cut from the same cloth as Jenison Fieldhouse. MSU got too big for Jenison, EMU NEVER EVER got too big for Bowen.

Moving basketball games to the Convo was a mistake. Everyone knows it! It is a fixable mistake. I foresee EMU moving back to Bowen within the next few years. Instead of 500 real paying customers per game, we could easily have 3,000 every game. The first year back we would probably have a majority of sellouts. If EMU is serious about making money, it is a NO BRAINER.

I know that EMU monitors this site because in 2011, 2012 I suggested that Rynearson badly needed some color, with all the drab cement...I think we know what happened shortly thereafter. In life and in business, you have to be creative and THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX. You cannot keep doing the same thing, fail, and expect a different result.

http://www.easternecho.com/article/2016/...ball-games the team needs to become road warriors absence makes the heart ground fonder. Also they will produce income to bring higher quality teams.

Okay we're forgetting something when it comes to attendance. EMU in my day had more commuter students who worked off campus and lived off campus. A true statement is that if EMU had all of its students live on campus we would have to undertake a mammoth dorm building. We're not going to get commuter students to stay on campus to attend games. So we need to concentrate our efforts on getting those students on campus to the games. Also there's the greater Ann Arbor Ypsi area. I've seen more community outreach by Murphy and Creighton small seeds that hopefully will bear fruit.

I love Bowen since I lived right across the street. But the Convo quite frankly is huge upgrade in terms of facilities. My family loves going to the Convo.