If conference championships are a tie breaker then Oklahoma isn't a lock. Clemson & Alabama can still get in even with a loss.

I don't know. But I sure as hell don't know that their definition is team must be more than 1 game worse for it to be unequivocal. That's why you just don't know that UNC is viewed as being equal to Ohio St in the eyes of the committee. And it may be something where half the committee feels like Ohio St is better, and half the committee feels UNC is better. They are in the same pool, so whoever gets the votes wins.

(12-04-2015 05:16 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  If conference championships are a tie breaker then Oklahoma isn't a lock. Clemson & Alabama can still get in even with a loss.

Why not? Oklahoma is a conference champion. You might not like that they don't have a ccg but they have the exact same status as Clemson or UNC would have in terms of being a conference champion.

(12-04-2015 05:17 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't know. But I sure as hell don't know that their definition is team must be more than 1 game worse for it to be unequivocal. That's why you just don't know that UNC is viewed as being equal to Ohio St in the eyes of the committee. And it may be something where half the committee feels like Ohio St is better, and half the committee feels UNC is better. They are in the same pool, so whoever gets the votes wins.

If you "don't know, which I know you don't, then stop responding and claiming it as fact. That is what I have been saying to you for god knows how long, and you keep doing it.

(12-04-2015 05:16 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  If conference championships are a tie breaker then Oklahoma isn't a lock. Clemson & Alabama can still get in even with a loss.

It is conference champions. Not winners of conference championship games. they did say that last year, the "extra" game was a factor, but that is more of a SOS issue then a championship issue.

(12-04-2015 05:20 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-04-2015 05:16 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  If conference championships are a tie breaker then Oklahoma isn't a lock. Clemson & Alabama can still get in even with a loss.

Why not? Oklahoma is a conference champion. You might not like that they don't have a ccg but they have the exact same status as Clemson or UNC would have in terms of being a conference champion.

I don't have a problem with Oklahoma being in, I picked them to win the Big 12 at the start of the season. It is a possibility though that Stanford has an impressive performance or that they find both Michigan State & Iowa to be more impressive this weekend. After reading some more articles it appears that "unequivocally" isn't even a factor with the committee. They each define their own metrics for the 4 best teams.

You are the one trying to claim it as fact that Ohio St isn't unequivocally better than UNC. The fact is, it is 100% up to the 12 members on the committee. If enough of them feel like Ohio St IS, UNC is gone. That is the fact, no matter how much you try to spin it.

(12-04-2015 05:32 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(12-04-2015 05:20 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-04-2015 05:16 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  If conference championships are a tie breaker then Oklahoma isn't a lock. Clemson & Alabama can still get in even with a loss.

Why not? Oklahoma is a conference champion. You might not like that they don't have a ccg but they have the exact same status as Clemson or UNC would have in terms of being a conference champion.

I don't have a problem with Oklahoma being in, I picked them to win the Big 12 at the start of the season. It is a possibility though that Stanford has an impressive performance or that they find both Michigan State & Iowa to be more impressive this weekend. After reading some more articles it appears that "unequivocally" isn't even a factor with the committee. They each define their own metrics for the 4 best teams.

not a chance. They aren't going to take a loser of a game this weekend, who they had below Oklahoma, and now isn't a conference champ, and say they're better than Oklahoma.

(12-04-2015 05:36 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-04-2015 05:32 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(12-04-2015 05:20 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-04-2015 05:16 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  If conference championships are a tie breaker then Oklahoma isn't a lock. Clemson & Alabama can still get in even with a loss.

Why not? Oklahoma is a conference champion. You might not like that they don't have a ccg but they have the exact same status as Clemson or UNC would have in terms of being a conference champion.

I don't have a problem with Oklahoma being in, I picked them to win the Big 12 at the start of the season. It is a possibility though that Stanford has an impressive performance or that they find both Michigan State & Iowa to be more impressive this weekend. After reading some more articles it appears that "unequivocally" isn't even a factor with the committee. They each define their own metrics for the 4 best teams.

not a chance. They aren't going to take a loser of a game this weekend, who they had below Oklahoma, and now isn't a conference champ, and say they're better than Oklahoma.

Both Clemson & Alabama are both ranked ahead of Oklahoma, what if one or both of them lose on a fluke? Luck himself gave an example of this before. There are no absolutes. Me personally I would have Oklahoma & the B1G champion locked in.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...ons-070814

“I firmly believe winning your conference is important,” said Luck. “I can’t tell you where that factors into the greater characteristics. But you can have a great team that’s not a conference champion. Oregon could be unbeaten but lose to a 7-5 Arizona State team in a driving rainstorm [in the conference championship game], but that’s a really good 12-1 team that probably should be in there.”

Plus Ohio State would be in ahead of Oklahoma. Ohio State's schedule is stronger this year because Michigan, Michigan State and Wisconsin are much better this year. Northern Illinois have been known as the Big 10 killer. Virginia peaked at the end.

Ohio State lost- Michigan State
Oklahoma lost-Texas

The better resume is Ohio State. The committee could vote Ohio State in and leave Oklahoma out because they would like a story of a repeat winner.

(12-04-2015 07:45 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Plus Ohio State would be in ahead of Oklahoma. Ohio State's schedule is stronger this year because Michigan, Michigan State and Wisconsin are much better this year. Northern Illinois have been known as the Big 10 killer. Virginia peaked at the end.

Ohio State lost- Michigan State
Oklahoma lost-Texas

The better resume is Ohio State. The committee could vote Ohio State in and leave Oklahoma out because they would like a story of a repeat winner.

LOL. You have such a hard-on for OU that you've lost all objectivity.

(12-04-2015 07:45 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Plus Ohio State would be in ahead of Oklahoma. Ohio State's schedule is stronger this year because Michigan, Michigan State and Wisconsin are much better this year. Northern Illinois have been known as the Big 10 killer. Virginia peaked at the end.

Ohio State lost- Michigan State
Oklahoma lost-Texas

The better resume is Ohio State. The committee could vote Ohio State in and leave Oklahoma out because they would like a story of a repeat winner.

So are you taking the bet?
Oklahoma makes playoffs- you're banned from the site.
Oklahoma misses playoffs- I'm banned from the site...

you keep on woofing big crap, do you really believe it or are you just woofing?

(12-04-2015 08:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-04-2015 12:10 AM)ClemVegas Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 08:28 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 08:17 AM)ClemVegas Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 08:13 AM)stever20 Wrote:  conference CHAMPION. also the South Carolina game being so close followed up by a loss would show they're not playing their best end of year, which hurts them vs Ohio St.

Clemson controlled the SC game, it was really a 12 point win, despite 3 bad fumbles. Most games won't have 3 fumbles, maybe 0.

Watson played unbelievable in the SC game. lol "not their best'. give me a break

Clemson has two top 10 wins, FSU and ND, which should beat out OSU who has 1 top 25 win over an overrated Michigan team

All of what you say is true (except you overstate how much Clemson controlled the SC game), but you omit a big factor:

Optics. There just is no way the committee is going to vote into the playoffs a team that just lost the previous day. It looks bad, and the system remembers the huge criticism that the BCS got in 2001 and 2002 when Nebraska and Oklahoma lost their CCGs and yet made it into the BCS title game.

That simply will not happen. Fair or not, Clemson has to win this Saturday or they are out. Maybe, just maybe, if everyone else loses - Alabama and Stanford - they get in.

But if they lose they will definitely be behind Ohio State and Stanford - and UNC - in the pecking order as to teams moving in.

Clemson was up 28-10 in that game. SC scoring with 1 second left to pull within 5 is meaningless, they should have been doing hail mary into the endzone when they got the ball back to save some time for an onside kick, but they were playing for a moral victory rather to win at that point

Clemson had over 500 yards offense in the game.

you have no idea what is going to happen. if they took Ohio State last year despite a bad loss at home to a bad VA Tech team, they could take Clemson if Clemson loses to UNC especially if it is a close loss and UNC looks good in the game.

the playoff system hasn't changed anything, it is all subjective just as it was with the BCS system.

it would be pretty cool if both Clemson and Bama lose and get to play each other in one of the top games, it will be viewed as the real title game. lol

Bama only beat Tenn by like a point at home and they didn't exact dominate a bad Auburn team. For some reason it seems like Clemson's margin of victories are analyzed more than other teams.

I don't think it is a guarantee they are behind Ohio State or UNC. UNC's schedule is no good and they lost to a 3 win team, the same team people are beating up on Clemson for a 5 point win. So Clemson woudl have done something UNC did not do on a netural field, plus at SC, but UNC gets in? Doesn't make much sense.

The committeee will get a lot of blowback if they take Ohio State given OSU got in last year when many felt they shouldn't have. And OSU just doesn't look that good this year. They didn't win their conference, so they don't have that advantage over Clemson either. CLemson has two top 10 wins, OSU has 1 top 25 win.

Concerning South Carolina: Clemson had 500 yards, SC had 400 yards. When you are only up 28-25 in the 4th quarter and win 37-32, you did not dominate that game, sorry about that.

Concerning UNC: Clemson has no chance of being ranked ahead of UNC if UNC beats them. UNC will be conference champs, Clemson will not, and UNC will have head to head. Together, those factors will absolutely trump Clemson beating FSU and Notre Dame. Take that to the bank.

Concerning Ohio State: There are no parallels. Ohio State got picked because they recovered from their early loss by beating Top 10 MSU, Top 25 Minnesota, then emphatically squashing #11 Wisconsin to win their conference title. Conference titles mean a lot, it says so right in the selection protocol. Plus they were surging, they passed the eye test. Finally, they lucked out in that the Big 12 did not have a single champion last year.

Clemson will have just lost literally 12 hours before the selection. The optics on that are terrible.

As for this year, Ohio State just crushed Michigan, and in doing so, they LOOKED like the team that won the title last year. Same dominant defense, same dominant running game. They look like one of the four best teams. They need help to get in, but if Clemson loses, Clemson will fall behind them, bank on it. No way the committee will get blowback for taking OSU over a Clemson team that just lost! Everyone will say "well, we criticized the committee last year for taking OSU, and they proved us wrong".

And FWIW, I hate Ohio State.

Oklahoma and the B1G champ are 100% in. So that leaves two spots left. Clemson and Bama are in if they win. If either Clemson or Alabama lose, Stanford is first up to take their spot if they win. If both lose, it's Stanford and Ohio State that get in, with some chance for UNC. If both lose and Stanford loses, it's Ohio State and UNC that get in.

Clemson will not make it if they lose, trust me, LOL.

I think many feel that FSU can beat UNC. Cook would run all over UNC. lol Clemson had to do more to get into the ACC title game, I think Lousville could beat UNC too especially at Lville.

I don't see how top 25 win trumps 2-1 against the top 10. UNC's current best win was at Pitt who lost to a bad Miami team at home. Their 2nd best is against a NC State team who didn't have their two top RBs and finished with 5 losses.

I don't believe UNC is going to get in unless they beat Clemson by 21 or more and basically shut down Clemson's offense.

I don't think UNC is going to win anyway. THey can't stop the run which is a problem againt Watson and Gallman and Artavius Scott who we using basically like a running back on passes to the outside.

My opinion is that team that lost to a 3 loss team on a netural field or at home should not make the final 4, especially with only 1 top 25 win.

I don't see how the comittee can say Oklahoma deserves it more than Clemson. Clemson had to play an extra game against a team currently ranked in top 10. Clemson didn't lose to a losing team on a netural field either.

Keep in mind clemson stuffed Oklahoma last year on both sides of the ball, with Cole stoudt at QB. I don't see how anybody could think that Clemson is not in Oklahoma's league this year with our offense being better.

Who has Ohio State beaten aside from Michigan? Northern Illinois who lost to ACC-winless BC and is getting thrashed right now? Penn. State?

Their loss is among the best in the country but that's not enough imo.

(12-04-2015 09:59 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Who has Ohio State beaten aside from Michigan? Northern Illinois who lost to ACC-winless BC and is getting thrashed right now? Penn. State?

Their loss is among the best in the country but that's not enough imo.

there will be a backlash if OSU squeaks in again.

(12-04-2015 09:47 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  

(12-04-2015 08:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-04-2015 12:10 AM)ClemVegas Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 08:28 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 08:17 AM)ClemVegas Wrote:  Clemson controlled the SC game, it was really a 12 point win, despite 3 bad fumbles. Most games won't have 3 fumbles, maybe 0.

Watson played unbelievable in the SC game. lol "not their best'. give me a break

Clemson has two top 10 wins, FSU and ND, which should beat out OSU who has 1 top 25 win over an overrated Michigan team

All of what you say is true (except you overstate how much Clemson controlled the SC game), but you omit a big factor:

Optics. There just is no way the committee is going to vote into the playoffs a team that just lost the previous day. It looks bad, and the system remembers the huge criticism that the BCS got in 2001 and 2002 when Nebraska and Oklahoma lost their CCGs and yet made it into the BCS title game.

That simply will not happen. Fair or not, Clemson has to win this Saturday or they are out. Maybe, just maybe, if everyone else loses - Alabama and Stanford - they get in.

But if they lose they will definitely be behind Ohio State and Stanford - and UNC - in the pecking order as to teams moving in.

Clemson was up 28-10 in that game. SC scoring with 1 second left to pull within 5 is meaningless, they should have been doing hail mary into the endzone when they got the ball back to save some time for an onside kick, but they were playing for a moral victory rather to win at that point

Clemson had over 500 yards offense in the game.

you have no idea what is going to happen. if they took Ohio State last year despite a bad loss at home to a bad VA Tech team, they could take Clemson if Clemson loses to UNC especially if it is a close loss and UNC looks good in the game.

the playoff system hasn't changed anything, it is all subjective just as it was with the BCS system.

it would be pretty cool if both Clemson and Bama lose and get to play each other in one of the top games, it will be viewed as the real title game. lol

Bama only beat Tenn by like a point at home and they didn't exact dominate a bad Auburn team. For some reason it seems like Clemson's margin of victories are analyzed more than other teams.

I don't think it is a guarantee they are behind Ohio State or UNC. UNC's schedule is no good and they lost to a 3 win team, the same team people are beating up on Clemson for a 5 point win. So Clemson woudl have done something UNC did not do on a netural field, plus at SC, but UNC gets in? Doesn't make much sense.

The committeee will get a lot of blowback if they take Ohio State given OSU got in last year when many felt they shouldn't have. And OSU just doesn't look that good this year. They didn't win their conference, so they don't have that advantage over Clemson either. CLemson has two top 10 wins, OSU has 1 top 25 win.

Concerning South Carolina: Clemson had 500 yards, SC had 400 yards. When you are only up 28-25 in the 4th quarter and win 37-32, you did not dominate that game, sorry about that.

Concerning UNC: Clemson has no chance of being ranked ahead of UNC if UNC beats them. UNC will be conference champs, Clemson will not, and UNC will have head to head. Together, those factors will absolutely trump Clemson beating FSU and Notre Dame. Take that to the bank.

Concerning Ohio State: There are no parallels. Ohio State got picked because they recovered from their early loss by beating Top 10 MSU, Top 25 Minnesota, then emphatically squashing #11 Wisconsin to win their conference title. Conference titles mean a lot, it says so right in the selection protocol. Plus they were surging, they passed the eye test. Finally, they lucked out in that the Big 12 did not have a single champion last year.

Clemson will have just lost literally 12 hours before the selection. The optics on that are terrible.

As for this year, Ohio State just crushed Michigan, and in doing so, they LOOKED like the team that won the title last year. Same dominant defense, same dominant running game. They look like one of the four best teams. They need help to get in, but if Clemson loses, Clemson will fall behind them, bank on it. No way the committee will get blowback for taking OSU over a Clemson team that just lost! Everyone will say "well, we criticized the committee last year for taking OSU, and they proved us wrong".

And FWIW, I hate Ohio State.

Oklahoma and the B1G champ are 100% in. So that leaves two spots left. Clemson and Bama are in if they win. If either Clemson or Alabama lose, Stanford is first up to take their spot if they win. If both lose, it's Stanford and Ohio State that get in, with some chance for UNC. If both lose and Stanford loses, it's Ohio State and UNC that get in.

Clemson will not make it if they lose, trust me, LOL.

I think many feel that FSU can beat UNC. Cook would run all over UNC. lol Clemson had to do more to get into the ACC title game, I think Lousville could beat UNC too especially at Lville.

I don't see how top 25 win trumps 2-1 against the top 10. UNC's current best win was at Pitt who lost to a bad Miami team at home. Their 2nd best is against a NC State team who didn't have their two top RBs and finished with 5 losses.

I don't believe UNC is going to get in unless they beat Clemson by 21 or more and basically shut down Clemson's offense.

I don't think UNC is going to win anyway. THey can't stop the run which is a problem againt Watson and Gallman and Artavius Scott who we using basically like a running back on passes to the outside.

My opinion is that team that lost to a 3 loss team on a netural field or at home should not make the final 4, especially with only 1 top 25 win.

Don't get me wrong - i don't think UNC is making it either if they win. If UNC beats Clemson, the ACC likely is shut out of the playoffs.

(12-04-2015 09:41 PM)stever20 Wrote:  So are you taking the bet?
Oklahoma makes playoffs- you're banned from the site.
Oklahoma misses playoffs- I'm banned from the site...

you keep on woofing big crap, do you really believe it or are you just woofing?

That's an awful bet. It's possible that both Oklahoma and Stanford make the playoffs if Clemson trips up, and also it's possible that Stanford loses to USC and leaves this conversation. Still, the thread is worth considering because there is also a possibility that the committee could devalue Oklahoma's championship.

even with a loss CLemson has a better overall resume than others still in consideration, inlcuding Oklahoama who said to be a lock.

people gush over Oklahoama, the same team that looked horrible in a loss to Texas. I don't see how you let Oklahoma in and leave out Clemson given CLemson has a better loss and it was in an extra game than Oklahoma had.

(12-04-2015 09:41 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-04-2015 07:45 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Plus Ohio State would be in ahead of Oklahoma. Ohio State's schedule is stronger this year because Michigan, Michigan State and Wisconsin are much better this year. Northern Illinois have been known as the Big 10 killer. Virginia peaked at the end.

Ohio State lost- Michigan State
Oklahoma lost-Texas

The better resume is Ohio State. The committee could vote Ohio State in and leave Oklahoma out because they would like a story of a repeat winner.

So are you taking the bet?
Oklahoma makes playoffs- you're banned from the site.
Oklahoma misses playoffs- I'm banned from the site...

you keep on woofing big crap, do you really believe it or are you just woofing?

Don't bite the bait, you know damn well David St has no f'n clue what he is talking about. He's like the kid in the back of the class jumping up and down to get attention.

(12-05-2015 02:44 AM)ClemVegas Wrote:  even with a loss CLemson has a better overall resume than others still in consideration, inlcuding Oklahoama who said to be a lock.

people gush over Oklahoama, the same team that looked horrible in a loss to Texas. I don't see how you let Oklahoma in and leave out Clemson given CLemson has a better loss and it was in an extra game than Oklahoma had.

You are not really wrong, but I think you are not understanding the committee protocol or seeding process. Namely they prefer conference champions (actually says it), and non-champions are to be considered when they are clearly better than some of the champions. Unless Stanford loses, and maybe if Alabama loses, none of the conference champions are so bad, or non-champions that much better, in all likelihood, for a non-champion to get in this year. Last year would have been a better year for non champions had some of the CCG's gone another way, but this year it appears 3 of the conference champions will have 1 or 0 losses, and the other two will have likely one or two loss champions. Just not really a lot of room for any non-champions to make a case this year. Especially since the top two non champions, will have either lost to their actual conference champion, or their champion will have been undefeated.