http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...onomy-ncaa

(12-12-2013 12:13 PM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...onomy-ncaa

Surprised this hasn't received any attention. I don't see it as a big deal if it only pertains to football, but if it rolls over into the other sports then it basically creates a D-I lite. No G5 school can begin to match their resources.

It hasn't drawn much talk because it is the status quo. They will call the shots and keep most of the money. They already call the shots and keep most of the money. Still better than playing in a lower division.

Notice where Karl weighs in with his support....................imagine that.

Ha, I read the title and thought "in other breaking news... The sky is blue."

(12-13-2013 06:51 PM)Wild Bill Kelso Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 12:13 PM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...onomy-ncaa

Surprised this hasn't received any attention. I don't see it as a big deal if it only pertains to football, but if it rolls over into the other sports then it basically creates a D-I lite. No G5 school can begin to match their resources.

This is a huge deal. This is the first step in creating a level just for the Big 5 conferences and excluding all the other schools. They will play their players and levels other schools can't afford. Then you will see the new television deals because "we have the best players" and no team will sniff any of that money. Let the first dime hit the pockets of a football player and you will see the first lawsuit citing Title IX. Once the women are paid, then every other athlete will get paid.

Think of this. If they say a "reasonable" is $1000 a semester. Doesn't seem like much for the poor college athlete. Yet most schools probably have around 250 athletes. That is $500,000 a year. A drop in the bucket for Alabama, Texas and Michigan. A huge chunk of money for the smaller schools. And our idiot commissioner is in support of this....what in the hell does he expect our member schools to do. Can no one do any predictive analysis?!

What kills me is that these Presidents, ADs and commissioners walk out and talk about the "full cost" of attending school. Yet not one of those hypocritical SOBs will make their member institutions offer 4 year guaranteed scholarships. I imagine you can count of one hand the number of schools that do offer that...the Nick Sabans and Les Miles' of the world will continue to screw over kids because the next hot shot 5 star just committed.

I'll be honest, I'd like to see a break between P5 and G5 schools. I'm absolutely sick and tired of the way money corrupts institutions of higher education. Some of the bigger schools will force presidents out for not putting athletics before education. What's the purpose of higher education again? What's wrong with the picture when a state institution is allowed to issue $300 million in bonds to pay for athletic upgrades, despite not being able to maintain their academic facilities properly? I'm talking about BSU, which is one of the lowest ranked schools that has an FBS team and a 7% graduation rate. Meanwhile, an established research school like Idaho suffers because we'd rather spend $250 million in private donations on academic facilities and upgrades. I don't think anyone outside of Idaho realizes how sh!tty BSU is compared to Idaho, and it's all because of football and money.

Maybe I'm butthurt, but I'd rather see the temptation of football money removed from mid-major schools. It's ruining my opinion of higher education. I would be happy if the G5 and some of the best FCS teams played in their own league. There are too many schools making unwise fiscal decisions in hopes of being the next TCU or Utah. We've seen how well that's working for BSU; they sold out for athletics, and they still haven't gotten that P5 invite.

(12-13-2013 08:51 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  I'll be honest, I'd like to see a break between P5 and G5 schools. I'm absolutely sick and tired of the way money corrupts institutions of higher education. Some of the bigger schools will force presidents out for not putting athletics before education. What's the purpose of higher education again? What's wrong with the picture when a state institution is allowed to issue $300 million in bonds to pay for athletic upgrades, despite not being able to maintain their academic facilities properly? I'm talking about BSU, which is one of the lowest ranked schools that has an FBS team and a 7% graduation rate. Meanwhile, an established research school like Idaho suffers because we'd rather spend $250 million in private donations on academic facilities and upgrades. I don't think anyone outside of Idaho realizes how sh!tty BSU is compared to Idaho, and it's all because of football and money.

Maybe I'm butthurt, but I'd rather see the temptation of football money removed from mid-major schools. It's ruining my opinion of higher education. I would be happy if the G5 and some of the best FCS teams played in their own league. There are too many schools making unwise fiscal decisions in hopes of being the next TCU or Utah. We've seen how well that's working for BSU; they sold out for athletics, and they still haven't gotten that P5 invite.

I would only want to see a separation if it is a complete separation in all college sports and governance. Refusing to associate with us in the money sport and hoarding all the cash unto themselves while using us to fill out schedules in non-revenue sports is not acceptable.

If you have THAT sort of separation then you can actually look at them as separate and start making strategies to actually compete with them for dollars and eyes in the market. You can make rules that don't take into account their desires....and in fact make rules that are completely against their desires.

We would not have to beat them....we would only have to carve out a spot that gives us more revenue than they allow us now.

Finally a thread on here I can agree with. Why can so few see what is happening. The p5 will ruin college football and the g5 seems so eager to beg for crumbs they will let it happen.

Not much we can do. If P5 separates, many G5 schools die off, while at the same time the P5 needs G5 schools for coaches and administrators to gain valuable experience.

Neither side can live without the other, but the P5 has power and television behind them, so they are going to cry until they get their way, and they know that we will have to let them.

I still think this will end in a lawsuit.

(12-14-2013 03:08 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Not much we can do. If P5 separates, many G5 schools die off, while at the same time the P5 needs G5 schools for coaches and administrators to gain valuable experience.

Neither side can live without the other, but the P5 has power and television behind them, so they are going to cry until they get their way, and they know that we will have to let them.

I still think this will end in a lawsuit.

I agree. It is a difficult situation. The knee jerk reaction is to dig our heels in fight this, but the reality is this is a lose lose situation for the G5 schools. We need those guys for $ games and if they bolt that goes by the way side. I think they want to remain within the NCAA structure and that is ultimately good for our schools. When it happens I also think a lot of TV money goes along with it. The G5 leagues will have no option than to restructure within regional areas.

This is precisely why I wanted App out of FCS so badly. It wasn't the lure of playing on the same stage as the big boys, but being involved with peer schools. I knew once this worm had turned there was little hope of getting out of FCS. IMO, the bone tossed to the G5 schools in the chance of playing in 1 BCS bowl was nothing but a ruse. After this year that's out the window because there is no way that bunch is going to allow a G5 school in their playoff. The revenue distribution is a good thing and I think that will be the bargaining tool used by the G5 commissioners. I see a playoff coming for the P5 & G5 schools. In my mind that isn't a such a bad thing.

Will be interesting to see where things start to settle out over the next 5-10 years. Will the playoffs expand, Will the SBC gain ground on TV revenue and Bowl games? How much more shuffling of schools will happen? Just hope when is all said and done that GS isn't back where we started.

I have a feeling that the one way to stop this will be for some powerful senator from a state that doesn't have someone from the Big 5 starts asking questions after a restructure of the deals. You saw it with Orrin Hatch (Utah). When he started to push about exclusion from the BCS and the money that was flowing into the AQ coffers, a new deal was struck that sent more money to the other schools and a semi guarantee of inclusion. As much as I hate political influence into our daily lives, when congress starts talking interstate commerce and collusion and people have to start testifying under oath, things change real quick.

The conspiracy theorist in me says that this is the first step. Once they start paying players, then you will see the lower tier teams quickly priced out of paying. Then you will see an increase of scholarships, because, you know that they are only helping out more students get an education and they can do more. I would not surprise me that within 5 years of this happening you could see scholarships for football raised to 95 or 100.

I doubt it, any increase in scholarships for football has to be met on the women's side somewhere. Men's scholarships in every sport has shrunk. Scholarships for football (combined with basketball) used to be 145, then it was reduced to 95, then again to 85.

(12-14-2013 09:46 AM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  I doubt it, any increase in scholarships for football has to be met on the women's side somewhere. Men's scholarships in every sport has shrunk. Scholarships for football (combined with basketball) used to be 145, then it was reduced to 95, then again to 85.

or reduce other men's sports...problem is the bigger schools can afford it and with new TV revenues coming in, they can do a little more sharing to shore up the smaller schools of their conferences.

If the 5 leave the NCAA, which is a threat from them, then the NCAA tournament will be interesting. They will have to start their own tournament in direct competition. They will lose out on a lot of their filler for their schedules and be down to about 65 schools to play basketball with.....

I believe the g5 should, if push come to shove completely separate. While we all know the p5 is currently where most of the value lies, the g5 does have a large amount of unrecognized value. They should band together and sell their product as a single unit as the NFL does. How much would NBC fox CBS or even ESPN pay for a large block of content provided by that many schools how much more coverage would most g5 schools get without being declared inferior by the announcers. Do for the g5 what is currently being done for the p5. Remove yourself completely and do not play them in anything. Refuse to be sacrificial lambs for the charity tit. Get off the welfare wagon.
Realize your true value and build on that. The key would be solidarity and the backing of a major network. Who will benefit from the growth of the g5 instead of networks who use the g5 to grow the p5.

(12-14-2013 11:09 AM)cleburneslim Wrote:  I believe the g5 should, if push come to shove completely separate. While we all know the p5 is currently where most of the value lies, the g5 does have a large amount of unrecognized value. They should band together and sell their product as a single unit as the NFL does. How much would NBC fox CBS or even ESPN pay for a large block of content provided by that many schools how much more coverage would most g5 schools get without being declared inferior by the announcers. Do for the g5 what is currently being done for the p5. Remove yourself completely and do not play them in anything. Refuse to be sacrificial lambs for the charity tit. Get off the welfare wagon.
Realize your true value and build on that. The key would be solidarity and the backing of a major network. Who will benefit from the growth of the g5 instead of networks who use the g5 to grow the p5.

I hope you are in the minority. A split would destroy college football for the G5. They would see media revenue virtually disappear and ticket sales plummet. Many schools would probably be forced to drop their programs for budgetary reasons. Those that survive would play in a league cloaked in obscurity.

People care who the best team in all of college football is. The best team in the nation comes from the top division in the nation. Beyond that division, Americans have little interest in college football. They could simply care less who the best team in the lower divisions are. Quick---who won the D3 football championship last year? I don't know because I don't care. I don't even care enough to look it up. That's the level of interest we are headed toward in a G5/P5 split senario.

There are teams here that just escaped from the highest levels of FCS football. Talk to their fans. They left FCS for a reason. When the last split happened the FCS/Div-2 level thought getting their playoff would keep their programs in the limelight. They were promised more TV appearances from the NCAA (which at the time controlled TV appearances). When the NCAA lost control of the college football TV rights due to a court decision vs Oklahoma, FCS was at the mercy of the free market. FCS found there was little free market demand for their football product. Even their playoffs gets minimal interest and coverage. Past history says a college football division that's devoid of the big names is of little value. The G5 conferences struggle with value for the same reason---they have few or no traditional big names. Still the G5 are at least in the same divisions as the big names---which is why the G5 still have media value. Demote them, and past history says the vast majority of college football fans would lost interest in the group.

If it comes to a split then there is opportunity with Fox and NBC with their sports networks. Problem is that the Big 5 will control the vast majority of the coverage and money. Unfortunately, the smaller schools will go along with this like a battered woman and be happy with scraps. The NCAA will be shown for the paper tiger that it is when it comes to the larger schools. Small schools will get hammered for the smallest of infractions to show how tough they are and the bigger schools will continue to skate.

(12-14-2013 11:22 AM)InjunJohn Wrote:  If it comes to a split then there is opportunity with Fox and NBC with their sports networks. Problem is that the Big 5 will control the vast majority of the coverage and money. Unfortunately, the smaller schools will go along with this like a battered woman and be happy with scraps. The NCAA will be shown for the paper tiger that it is when it comes to the larger schools. Small schools will get hammered for the smallest of infractions to show how tough they are and the bigger schools will continue to skate.

Nope. That's done. A lawsuit for selective enforcement is just waiting there. I think we will see more relaxed recruiting rules that make sense. The silly little infractions and investigations of the past are done. If it doesn't matter that athletes in N Carolina don't have to pass classes to play, then it doesn't matter if a Whatsamatta U volleyball player washes her car with the schools water hose.

(12-14-2013 11:17 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-14-2013 11:09 AM)cleburneslim Wrote:  I believe the g5 should, if push come to shove completely separate. While we all know the p5 is currently where most of the value lies, the g5 does have a large amount of unrecognized value. They should band together and sell their product as a single unit as the NFL does. How much would NBC fox CBS or even ESPN pay for a large block of content provided by that many schools how much more coverage would most g5 schools get without being declared inferior by the announcers. Do for the g5 what is currently being done for the p5. Remove yourself completely and do not play them in anything. Refuse to be sacrificial lambs for the charity tit. Get off the welfare wagon.
Realize your true value and build on that. The key would be solidarity and the backing of a major network. Who will benefit from the growth of the g5 instead of networks who use the g5 to grow the p5.

I hope you are in the minority. A split would destroy college football for the G5. They would see media revenue virtually disappear and ticket sales plummet. Many schools would probably be forced to drop their programs for budgetary reasons. Those that survive would play in a league cloaked in obscurity.

People care who the best team in all of college football is. The best team in the nation comes from the top division in the nation. Beyond that division, Americans have little interest in college football. They could simply care less who the best team in the lower divisions are. Quick---who won the D3 football championship last year? I don't know because I don't care. I don't even care enough to look it up. That's the level of interest we are headed toward in a G5/P5 split senario.

There are teams here that just escaped from the highest levels of FCS football. Talk to their fans. They left FCS for a reason. When the last split happened the FCS/Div-2 level thought getting their playoff would keep their programs in the limelight. They were promised more TV appearances from the NCAA (which at the time controlled TV appearances). When the NCAA lost control of the college football TV rights due to a court decision vs Oklahoma, FCS was at the mercy of the free market. FCS found there was little free market demand for their football product. Even their playoffs gets minimal interest and coverage. Past history says a college football division that's devoid of the big names is of little value. The G5 conferences struggle with value for the same reason---they have few or no traditional big names. Still the G5 are at least in the same divisions as the big names---which is why the G5 still have media value. Demote them, and past history says the vast majority of college football fans would lost interest in the group.

Mount Union (Alliance, OH). They've been in 8 straight championship games, winning 4, so it wasn't a hard conclusion to come to.

Yeah, some people do care enough to know (not saying a grand majority). Those guys put their pants on the same way and go out and play hard every week without all the perks or exposure of a P5 player but no less dedicated.