(10-01-2013 09:20 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 08:40 AM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 06:32 AM)Vobserver Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 04:53 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  I know there is a ton of basketball fans in the Sun Belt that will hate this poll. It's the CBS 2013-2014 Preview. Huge aspect of it is that it does not include any of the G5 conferences except for the AAC.

Obviously winning is the thing that the Sun Belt will need to get onto the national stage, but has been talked about many times. What realistic ideas does anyone have for getting the conference going in the right direction and moving up?

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketba...redictions

Smart scheduling will help a lot. No non-D-1 games; try to schedule home games against top teams in bad conferences and road games against mediocre teams in good conferences. Don't play bottom feeders except possibly in the ACC or the Big East.

If every school in the SBC does this, the RPI of the league as a whole will go up, even if the record is not quite as good.

I would add that scheduling games against strong mid-majors (the MVC for example) will help.

A 20 conference game schedule doesn't help.

So you think the Sun Belt should cut down the number of conference games?
Don't you think that would help some schools, like Georgia State, but probably hurt other schools?

I doubt many schools really want twenty conference games. I know that is not the preferred of UL, ASU, UALR, USA,& WKU. Cannot speak for the Moaners, as they have serious financial problems, and the new guys either.

(10-01-2013 02:14 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:09 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:06 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:03 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 01:58 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  It would depend on the ranking of the SWAC/MEAC team and the ranking of the conference opponent. A loss to a 120 RPI team would not hurt your RPI, while a win vs a 300 RPI team would not help it.

Sure, if that conference opponent was ranked 250, it would be one thing...but outside of ULM, I don't recall any SBC programs ever finishing that low.

I just go back to the NYT article that I posted earlier:

Quote:If you’re a team that’s rebuilding, just get wins. That’s not only good for you, but it’s good for the league. It’s not a one-size-fits-all philosophy.”

A significant portion of the RPI is just straight up win-loss record. If a bottom feeder Sun Belt team can get 4 more wins by playing SWAC/MEAC schools - then it works out better for the whole league.

But, financially, those bottom feeder schools would lose money playing those games. No fan interest in watching us play SWAC schools. We get a lot more money in league home games.

That loss of money can be more than made up by getting an extra bid or two to the NCAA tournament.

Have to keep your eyes on the prize.

Plus, they'll pay off when you can sell a team with a better record to boosters and recruits. That will set up many of the things the WKU posters above stated as being significant.

The amount of an extra NCAA unit for the league would not be enough to make up what we lost after revenue sharing.

There are a lot of us who cant afford to pay guarantees to low D1 schools as it is. ASU has something like two or three home and homes running with SWAC schools. For many of our schools, a commitment to basketball would require sacrificing money from our football programs, and our football programs drive the school.

1500 people might show up to watch ASU beat Jackson State...but 4500 would watch us play Western Kentucky. So why play Jackson State?

A single NCAA tournament victory is worth 1.5 million to a conference. So if the Sun Belt gets two teams in and they both win one game that's 3 million - $250,000.00 per school paid over 5 or 6 years - assuming it's 6 years then that's $41,667.67 per year.

How much would the extra 2k fans/students bring to that WKU team that season? I have a hard time thinking it'll reach $41k.


Edited to add source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2...5-million/

(10-01-2013 02:01 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 01:55 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 12:41 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Its better to beat up on ourselves than beat up on SWAC schools.

I don't think it is. I think it'll be better to get 4 wins by playing SWAC/MEAC schools than going 2-2 in conference play.

(This is assuming that the alternative to a 20 game conf. schedule is a 16 game conf. schedule)

You are correct. Those 4 wins will carry over to every SBC team while playing more conference games means ... 1 win, 1 loss. It's not who you play, it's winning that really counts. Once conference play starts the conference winning % is locked because during conference play it doesn't matter if it's 12, 16, or 20 games the overall winning % will be 50%

(10-01-2013 02:14 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:03 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 01:58 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 01:55 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 12:41 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Its better to beat up on ourselves than beat up on SWAC schools.

I don't think it is. I think it'll be better to get 4 wins by playing SWAC/MEAC schools than going 2-2 in conference play.

(This is assuming that the alternative to a 20 game conf. schedule is a 16 game conf. schedule)

It would depend on the ranking of the SWAC/MEAC team and the ranking of the conference opponent. A loss to a 120 RPI team would not hurt your RPI, while a win vs a 300 RPI team would not help it.

Sure, if that conference opponent was ranked 250, it would be one thing...but outside of ULM, I don't recall any SBC programs ever finishing that low.

I just go back to the NYT article that I posted earlier:

Quote:If you’re a team that’s rebuilding, just get wins. That’s not only good for you, but it’s good for the league. It’s not a one-size-fits-all philosophy.”

A significant portion of the RPI is just straight up win-loss record. If a bottom feeder Sun Belt team can get 4 more wins by playing SWAC/MEAC schools - then it works out better for the whole league.

I use to do my own RPI numbers back in the day when there were only 1 or 2 out there and it was easy for me to play around with the what ifs.

All I had to do was key in another win or a loss and see what it would mean for the conference...

ONE extra win by each school would have put 3 more SBC teams in the top 100 that year and raise the conference RPI up 2 spots I belie it would have took us to 11th or 12th. That was just one extra win and home court for all SBC was 70%. That year the SBC played around 20 D2 OOC games...which would have added 14 wins to the OOC winning % if they were against D1 schools.

I compare OOC wins (and losses) to compound interest it doesn't just help the one team but carrys over for every other SBC when you play them

Exactly. See. I really do love these WKU guys. Too bad we only have them for one season.

(10-01-2013 02:34 PM)CajunExpress Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 09:20 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 08:40 AM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 06:32 AM)Vobserver Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 04:53 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  I know there is a ton of basketball fans in the Sun Belt that will hate this poll. It's the CBS 2013-2014 Preview. Huge aspect of it is that it does not include any of the G5 conferences except for the AAC.

Obviously winning is the thing that the Sun Belt will need to get onto the national stage, but has been talked about many times. What realistic ideas does anyone have for getting the conference going in the right direction and moving up?

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketba...redictions

Smart scheduling will help a lot. No non-D-1 games; try to schedule home games against top teams in bad conferences and road games against mediocre teams in good conferences. Don't play bottom feeders except possibly in the ACC or the Big East.

If every school in the SBC does this, the RPI of the league as a whole will go up, even if the record is not quite as good.

I would add that scheduling games against strong mid-majors (the MVC for example) will help.

A 20 conference game schedule doesn't help.

So you think the Sun Belt should cut down the number of conference games?
Don't you think that would help some schools, like Georgia State, but probably hurt other schools?

I doubt many schools really want twenty conference games. I know that is not the preferred of UL, ASU, UALR, USA,& WKU. Cannot speak for the Moaners, as they have serious financial problems, and the new guys either.

I'd check your numbers. The coaches are the ones who approve the conference schedules. There is no way a 20 game schedule would have passed if that many people were against it.

(10-01-2013 02:14 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:09 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:06 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:03 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 01:58 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  It would depend on the ranking of the SWAC/MEAC team and the ranking of the conference opponent. A loss to a 120 RPI team would not hurt your RPI, while a win vs a 300 RPI team would not help it.

Sure, if that conference opponent was ranked 250, it would be one thing...but outside of ULM, I don't recall any SBC programs ever finishing that low.

I just go back to the NYT article that I posted earlier:

Quote:If you’re a team that’s rebuilding, just get wins. That’s not only good for you, but it’s good for the league. It’s not a one-size-fits-all philosophy.”

A significant portion of the RPI is just straight up win-loss record. If a bottom feeder Sun Belt team can get 4 more wins by playing SWAC/MEAC schools - then it works out better for the whole league.

But, financially, those bottom feeder schools would lose money playing those games. No fan interest in watching us play SWAC schools. We get a lot more money in league home games.

That loss of money can be more than made up by getting an extra bid or two to the NCAA tournament.

Have to keep your eyes on the prize.

Plus, they'll pay off when you can sell a team with a better record to boosters and recruits. That will set up many of the things the WKU posters above stated as being significant.

The amount of an extra NCAA unit for the league would not be enough to make up what we lost after revenue sharing.

There are a lot of us who cant afford to pay guarantees to low D1 schools as it is. ASU has something like two or three home and homes running with SWAC schools. For many of our schools, a commitment to basketball would require sacrificing money from our football programs, and our football programs drive the school.

1500 people might show up to watch ASU beat Jackson State...but 4500 would watch us play Western Kentucky. So why play Jackson State?

But wouldn't the numbers be around 1,500 for a game against App? I don't think many of your fans would know anything about App basketball.

But that really isn't the point because if you only do whats best for ASU then you need to go Indy. ASU is in a conference and what's best for the conference should come first. But if you're going to base it on money then a paycheck football is going to bring in more money than that 1aa school you play. The dollars would dwarf the amount for the extra 3,000 at the basketball game.

As a matter of fact..giving up that 1 home game against the 1AA for another paycheck game would probably pay for 50% of your basketball budget. Not going to happen, is it? So it's not just the money or fans?

(10-01-2013 02:44 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:14 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:09 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:06 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:03 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  I just go back to the NYT article that I posted earlier:

A significant portion of the RPI is just straight up win-loss record. If a bottom feeder Sun Belt team can get 4 more wins by playing SWAC/MEAC schools - then it works out better for the whole league.

But, financially, those bottom feeder schools would lose money playing those games. No fan interest in watching us play SWAC schools. We get a lot more money in league home games.

That loss of money can be more than made up by getting an extra bid or two to the NCAA tournament.

Have to keep your eyes on the prize.

Plus, they'll pay off when you can sell a team with a better record to boosters and recruits. That will set up many of the things the WKU posters above stated as being significant.

The amount of an extra NCAA unit for the league would not be enough to make up what we lost after revenue sharing.

There are a lot of us who cant afford to pay guarantees to low D1 schools as it is. ASU has something like two or three home and homes running with SWAC schools. For many of our schools, a commitment to basketball would require sacrificing money from our football programs, and our football programs drive the school.

1500 people might show up to watch ASU beat Jackson State...but 4500 would watch us play Western Kentucky. So why play Jackson State?

A single NCAA tournament victory is worth 1.5 million to a conference. So if the Sun Belt gets two teams in and they both win one game that's 3 million - $250,000.00 per school paid over 5 or 6 years - assuming it's 6 years then that's $41,667.67 per year.

How much would the extra 2k fans/students bring to that WKU team that season? I have a hard time thinking it'll reach $41k.

3,000 tickets at 10 bucks a pop. Throw in whatever the clost is to get a guarantee against a low D1 school. I could see it running 55-60K. Not to mention all that is IF the school wins an NCAA tournament game. That's hard enough for our schools to do.

(10-01-2013 02:45 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:14 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:09 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:06 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:03 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  I just go back to the NYT article that I posted earlier:

A significant portion of the RPI is just straight up win-loss record. If a bottom feeder Sun Belt team can get 4 more wins by playing SWAC/MEAC schools - then it works out better for the whole league.

But, financially, those bottom feeder schools would lose money playing those games. No fan interest in watching us play SWAC schools. We get a lot more money in league home games.

That loss of money can be more than made up by getting an extra bid or two to the NCAA tournament.

Have to keep your eyes on the prize.

Plus, they'll pay off when you can sell a team with a better record to boosters and recruits. That will set up many of the things the WKU posters above stated as being significant.

The amount of an extra NCAA unit for the league would not be enough to make up what we lost after revenue sharing.

There are a lot of us who cant afford to pay guarantees to low D1 schools as it is. ASU has something like two or three home and homes running with SWAC schools. For many of our schools, a commitment to basketball would require sacrificing money from our football programs, and our football programs drive the school.

1500 people might show up to watch ASU beat Jackson State...but 4500 would watch us play Western Kentucky. So why play Jackson State?

But wouldn't the numbers be around 1,500 for a game against App? I don't think many of your fans would know anything about App basketball.

But that really isn't the point because if you only do whats best for ASU then you need to go Indy. ASU is in a conference and what's best for the conference should come first. But if you're going to base it on money then a paycheck football is going to bring in more money than that 1aa school you play. The dollars would dwarf the amount for the extra 3,000 at the basketball game.

As a matter of fact..giving up that 1 home game against the 1AA for another paycheck game would probably pay for 50% of your basketball budget. Not going to happen, is it? So it's not just the money or fans?

Was that what WKU did when they first went FBS to bring in additional money for the basketball program? Was that the reason for so many football losses at first?

(10-01-2013 02:45 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:14 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:09 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:06 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:03 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  I just go back to the NYT article that I posted earlier:

A significant portion of the RPI is just straight up win-loss record. If a bottom feeder Sun Belt team can get 4 more wins by playing SWAC/MEAC schools - then it works out better for the whole league.

But, financially, those bottom feeder schools would lose money playing those games. No fan interest in watching us play SWAC schools. We get a lot more money in league home games.

That loss of money can be more than made up by getting an extra bid or two to the NCAA tournament.

Have to keep your eyes on the prize.

Plus, they'll pay off when you can sell a team with a better record to boosters and recruits. That will set up many of the things the WKU posters above stated as being significant.

The amount of an extra NCAA unit for the league would not be enough to make up what we lost after revenue sharing.

There are a lot of us who cant afford to pay guarantees to low D1 schools as it is. ASU has something like two or three home and homes running with SWAC schools. For many of our schools, a commitment to basketball would require sacrificing money from our football programs, and our football programs drive the school.

1500 people might show up to watch ASU beat Jackson State...but 4500 would watch us play Western Kentucky. So why play Jackson State?

But wouldn't the numbers be around 1,500 for a game against App? I don't think many of your fans would know anything about App basketball.

But that really isn't the point because if you only do whats best for ASU then you need to go Indy. ASU is in a conference and what's best for the conference should come first. But if you're going to base it on money then a paycheck football is going to bring in more money than that 1aa school you play. The dollars would dwarf the amount for the extra 3,000 at the basketball game.

As a matter of fact..giving up that 1 home game against the 1AA for another paycheck game would probably pay for 50% of your basketball budget. Not going to happen, is it? So it's not just the money or fans?

Our league attendance is always higher than nonconference. Unless its a strong local OOC opponent, our league games are always much larger in crowd.

Just a coincidence, but I posted on the C-USA board that I thought the SBC did recently enact some type of scheduling mandate. Perhaps even some/all non-conference games facing league office approval?

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=652...pid9793208

The SBC has a rich hoops tradition from the 80's and early 90's. New Mexico State's hoops it outstanding. Other than the geographic issues, they would be a slam dunk for all sports. Another quality non-football school with good basketbal might be something to consider ... but I'm really not thinking of many in the South sans VCU and they're staying Atlantic 10 unless the new Big East calls. At one time, I might have suggested Winthrop (Charlotte area ... strategic bridge from GA State to Appalachian State), but they've fallen since Greg Marshall departed for Wichita State.

How Does the Sun Belt Move Up
1. Administration that shows leadership and an interest in improving basketball from the president and athletic director on down to the ticket takers.
2.Backing up point #1 with action and dollars.
3.Hire a coach with a GREAT(not good)track record.This may take more money.Be prepared to spend above the SBC average on salary.
4.Improve facilities where possible. Practice areas,academic advisement,weight room,locker room,player lounge area,coaches offices.Go first class when possible or at least paint and put down luxury carpet.On your arena if you cant do a full remodel then do just the lobby or entrance areas.
5.Market to students with giveaways,etc.Get some excitement going.Always have a loud pep band at every home game.
6.Make your schedule as attractive as possible by playing nearby schools for familiarity or rivalry.Limit non-D1 games to one a season.
7.Recruiting excellent players will be possible when the above points are followed.
8.Patience and determination--it may take a few years.Maintain focus on improvement.
9.Garner more support.Sponsers, Booster clubs ,etc.. Get involved yourself wherever you can with donations or at least attendance to games.It takes years of hard work but it can be done with the proper leadership,interest,and support.

The SBC will only move up if programs become stronger.This thread is over emphasizing scheduling .While scheds are one part they are only one component IMO.Some questioned my nine points by saying "we dont have the money".Sounds like an excuse.MANY things can be done for little or no money.A tremendous amount can be done with better leadership and just a little investment.Better hiring practices(see FIU!!),better academic oversight(see ULM for their improvement), new carpet,fresh paint,better attitudes.If teams just improve RPI from say 310 to 260 this raises the rating of everyone else in the conference.

(10-01-2013 03:31 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:45 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:14 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:09 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 02:06 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  But, financially, those bottom feeder schools would lose money playing those games. No fan interest in watching us play SWAC schools. We get a lot more money in league home games.

That loss of money can be more than made up by getting an extra bid or two to the NCAA tournament.

Have to keep your eyes on the prize.

Plus, they'll pay off when you can sell a team with a better record to boosters and recruits. That will set up many of the things the WKU posters above stated as being significant.

The amount of an extra NCAA unit for the league would not be enough to make up what we lost after revenue sharing.

There are a lot of us who cant afford to pay guarantees to low D1 schools as it is. ASU has something like two or three home and homes running with SWAC schools. For many of our schools, a commitment to basketball would require sacrificing money from our football programs, and our football programs drive the school.

1500 people might show up to watch ASU beat Jackson State...but 4500 would watch us play Western Kentucky. So why play Jackson State?

But wouldn't the numbers be around 1,500 for a game against App? I don't think many of your fans would know anything about App basketball.

But that really isn't the point because if you only do whats best for ASU then you need to go Indy. ASU is in a conference and what's best for the conference should come first. But if you're going to base it on money then a paycheck football is going to bring in more money than that 1aa school you play. The dollars would dwarf the amount for the extra 3,000 at the basketball game.

As a matter of fact..giving up that 1 home game against the 1AA for another paycheck game would probably pay for 50% of your basketball budget. Not going to happen, is it? So it's not just the money or fans?

Was that what WKU did when they first went FBS to bring in additional money for the basketball program? Was that the reason for so many football losses at first?

No that wasn't the reason we loss. From the outset Western made the plan to redshirt classes and build on freshman/redshirt freshman classes not the quick route with JUCO's . The plan was to be competitive and I know this will sound crazy but winning wasn't a mandate. Build the program with freshman classes was and in year 3 winning would take care of itself. Of course no one planned on losing 26 straight games. A bunch of those we gave away in the 4th qt and a bunch of those on the last drive. We found every way you can think of to lose. I forget what the score was but we were up I believe a TD on the muts and on the 1/2 yard line from another score late in the 4th. We fumble in the endzone, muts recover and CLEARLY with a knee on the ground. The official didn't see it that way and the muts ran it back for a score and went on to beat us.

At Western the plan was to not play over 1 money game after the first 2 years (transition years) and we stuck to that. We funded football with a increase budget not at the expense of basketball. As a matter of fact with in the last year we have more than doubled what we pay our head coaches in both sports

(10-01-2013 03:46 PM)MemTGRS Wrote:  Just a coincidence, but I posted on the C-USA board that I thought the SBC did recently enact some type of scheduling mandate. Perhaps even some/all non-conference games facing league office approval?

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=652...pid9793208

The SBC has a rich hoops tradition from the 80's and early 90's. New Mexico State's hoops it outstanding. Other than the geographic issues, they would be a slam dunk for all sports. Another quality non-football school with good basketbal might be something to consider ... but I'm really not thinking of many in the South sans VCU and they're staying Atlantic 10 unless the new Big East calls. At one time, I might have suggested Winthrop (Charlotte area ... strategic bridge from GA State to Appalachian State), but they've fallen since Greg Marshall departed for Wichita State.

We did enact a scheduling mandate...when FAU and MTSU left our conference schedule had 2 fewer games, and many of us had to schedule non D1's to fill their spots.

The debate has little to do with the scheduling mandate as much as it does how many league games we should play

(10-01-2013 03:49 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  How Does the Sun Belt Move Up
1. Administration that shows leadership and an interest in improving basketball from the president and athletic director on down to the ticket takers.
2.Backing up point #1 with action and dollars.
3.Hire a coach with a GREAT(not good)track record.This may take more money.Be prepared to spend above the SBC average on salary.
4.Improve facilities where possible. Practice areas,academic advisement,weight room,locker room,player lounge area,coaches offices.Go first class when possible or at least paint and put down luxury carpet.On your arena if you cant do a full remodel then do just the lobby or entrance areas.
5.Market to students with giveaways,etc.Get some excitement going.Always have a loud pep band at every home game.
6.Make your schedule as attractive as possible by playing nearby schools for familiarity or rivalry.Limit non-D1 games to one a season.
7.Recruiting excellent players will be possible when the above points are followed.
8.Patience and determination--it may take a few years.Maintain focus on improvement.
9.Garner more support.Sponsers, Booster clubs ,etc.. Get involved yourself wherever you can with donations or at least attendance to games.It takes years of hard work but it can be done with the proper leadership,interest,and support.

The SBC will only move up if programs become stronger.This thread is over emphasizing scheduling .While scheds are one part they are only one component IMO.Some questioned my nine points by saying "we dont have the money".Sounds like an excuse.MANY things can be done for little or no money.A tremendous amount can be done with better leadership and just a little investment.Better hiring practices(see FIU!!),better academic oversight(see ULM for their improvement), new carpet,fresh paint,better attitudes.If teams just improve RPI from say 310 to 260 this raises the rating of everyone else in the conference.

Once again...football comes first. If I've got a million dollars that I can spend on a football and basketball coach, and I find a strong football coach willing to come for 850K, and I know my football program is where the majority of our athletic and enrollment increases have come from (Statistically proven) Then I am spending that on a football coach, and the basketball team will have to make do.

That is something that WKU fans will never be able to fully understand because you guys have always had a large amount to spend on basketball. The majority of us would have to beg to find a booster willing to spend on it.

(10-01-2013 03:49 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  How Does the Sun Belt Move Up
1. Administration that shows leadership and an interest in improving basketball from the president and athletic director on down to the ticket takers.
2.Backing up point #1 with action and dollars.
3.Hire a coach with a GREAT(not good)track record.This may take more money.Be prepared to spend above the SBC average on salary.
4.Improve facilities where possible. Practice areas,academic advisement,weight room,locker room,player lounge area,coaches offices.Go first class when possible or at least paint and put down luxury carpet.On your arena if you cant do a full remodel then do just the lobby or entrance areas.
5.Market to students with giveaways,etc.Get some excitement going.Always have a loud pep band at every home game.
6.Make your schedule as attractive as possible by playing nearby schools for familiarity or rivalry.Limit non-D1 games to one a season.
7.Recruiting excellent players will be possible when the above points are followed.
8.Patience and determination--it may take a few years.Maintain focus on improvement.
9.Garner more support.Sponsers, Booster clubs ,etc.. Get involved yourself wherever you can with donations or at least attendance to games.It takes years of hard work but it can be done with the proper leadership,interest,and support.

The SBC will only move up if programs become stronger.This thread is over emphasizing scheduling .While scheds are one part they are only one component IMO.Some questioned my nine points by saying "we dont have the money".Sounds like an excuse.MANY things can be done for little or no money.A tremendous amount can be done with better leadership and just a little investment.Better hiring practices(see FIU!!),better academic oversight(see ULM for their improvement), new carpet,fresh paint,better attitudes.If teams just improve RPI from say 310 to 260 this raises the rating of everyone else in the conference.

I believe that your points have a lot of clarity and make sense, while scheduling is something some are pretty much neophytes on, as I am.

(10-01-2013 03:58 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 03:49 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  How Does the Sun Belt Move Up
1. Administration that shows leadership and an interest in improving basketball from the president and athletic director on down to the ticket takers.
2.Backing up point #1 with action and dollars.
3.Hire a coach with a GREAT(not good)track record.This may take more money.Be prepared to spend above the SBC average on salary.
4.Improve facilities where possible. Practice areas,academic advisement,weight room,locker room,player lounge area,coaches offices.Go first class when possible or at least paint and put down luxury carpet.On your arena if you cant do a full remodel then do just the lobby or entrance areas.
5.Market to students with giveaways,etc.Get some excitement going.Always have a loud pep band at every home game.
6.Make your schedule as attractive as possible by playing nearby schools for familiarity or rivalry.Limit non-D1 games to one a season.
7.Recruiting excellent players will be possible when the above points are followed.
8.Patience and determination--it may take a few years.Maintain focus on improvement.
9.Garner more support.Sponsers, Booster clubs ,etc.. Get involved yourself wherever you can with donations or at least attendance to games.It takes years of hard work but it can be done with the proper leadership,interest,and support.

The SBC will only move up if programs become stronger.This thread is over emphasizing scheduling .While scheds are one part they are only one component IMO.Some questioned my nine points by saying "we dont have the money".Sounds like an excuse.MANY things can be done for little or no money.A tremendous amount can be done with better leadership and just a little investment.Better hiring practices(see FIU!!),better academic oversight(see ULM for their improvement), new carpet,fresh paint,better attitudes.If teams just improve RPI from say 310 to 260 this raises the rating of everyone else in the conference.

Once again...football comes first. If I've got a million dollars that I can spend on a football and basketball coach, and I find a strong football coach willing to come for 850K, and I know my football program is where the majority of our athletic and enrollment increases have come from (Statistically proven) Then I am spending that on a football coach, and the basketball team will have to make do.

That is something that WKU fans will never be able to fully understand because you guys have always had a large amount to spend on basketball. The majority of us would have to beg to find a booster willing to spend on it.

And you honestly think a Wichita St or any MVC school would ever consider joining the SBC?

I happen to agree with what you said and that is the reason the SBC will never improve as a conference and a top two 16 seed will become looked on as a improvement

(10-01-2013 04:12 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 03:58 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 03:49 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  How Does the Sun Belt Move Up
1. Administration that shows leadership and an interest in improving basketball from the president and athletic director on down to the ticket takers.
2.Backing up point #1 with action and dollars.
3.Hire a coach with a GREAT(not good)track record.This may take more money.Be prepared to spend above the SBC average on salary.
4.Improve facilities where possible. Practice areas,academic advisement,weight room,locker room,player lounge area,coaches offices.Go first class when possible or at least paint and put down luxury carpet.On your arena if you cant do a full remodel then do just the lobby or entrance areas.
5.Market to students with giveaways,etc.Get some excitement going.Always have a loud pep band at every home game.
6.Make your schedule as attractive as possible by playing nearby schools for familiarity or rivalry.Limit non-D1 games to one a season.
7.Recruiting excellent players will be possible when the above points are followed.
8.Patience and determination--it may take a few years.Maintain focus on improvement.
9.Garner more support.Sponsers, Booster clubs ,etc.. Get involved yourself wherever you can with donations or at least attendance to games.It takes years of hard work but it can be done with the proper leadership,interest,and support.

The SBC will only move up if programs become stronger.This thread is over emphasizing scheduling .While scheds are one part they are only one component IMO.Some questioned my nine points by saying "we dont have the money".Sounds like an excuse.MANY things can be done for little or no money.A tremendous amount can be done with better leadership and just a little investment.Better hiring practices(see FIU!!),better academic oversight(see ULM for their improvement), new carpet,fresh paint,better attitudes.If teams just improve RPI from say 310 to 260 this raises the rating of everyone else in the conference.

Once again...football comes first. If I've got a million dollars that I can spend on a football and basketball coach, and I find a strong football coach willing to come for 850K, and I know my football program is where the majority of our athletic and enrollment increases have come from (Statistically proven) Then I am spending that on a football coach, and the basketball team will have to make do.

That is something that WKU fans will never be able to fully understand because you guys have always had a large amount to spend on basketball. The majority of us would have to beg to find a booster willing to spend on it.

And you honestly think a Wichita St or any MVC school would ever consider joining the SBC?

I happen to agree with what you said and that is the reason the SBC will never improve as a conference and a top two 16 seed will become looked on as a improvement

They wouldn't join the SBC unless only FBS conferences could pay players. If that happened, they would need to find any FBS league that would take them.

We'd all love to make basketball better...but our basketball programs are going to have to win with what they have for a while before we can change. Look at ASU, we used to be a strong basketball program, but several losing seasons in a row lost fan support, and those fans eventually moved to football. They'll come back if we win...but until the program does win, our athletic department is not in a situation where we have spare cash to spend on them.

I've argued for years that if a fan was to suddenly come across a lot of money that they want to give to a school's athletic program that they need to request it goes to minor sports just as much as the major sports. Most will just send it to football, and the school has to send it where the person requests.

(10-01-2013 04:12 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 03:58 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 03:49 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  How Does the Sun Belt Move Up
1. Administration that shows leadership and an interest in improving basketball from the president and athletic director on down to the ticket takers.
2.Backing up point #1 with action and dollars.
3.Hire a coach with a GREAT(not good)track record.This may take more money.Be prepared to spend above the SBC average on salary.
4.Improve facilities where possible. Practice areas,academic advisement,weight room,locker room,player lounge area,coaches offices.Go first class when possible or at least paint and put down luxury carpet.On your arena if you cant do a full remodel then do just the lobby or entrance areas.
5.Market to students with giveaways,etc.Get some excitement going.Always have a loud pep band at every home game.
6.Make your schedule as attractive as possible by playing nearby schools for familiarity or rivalry.Limit non-D1 games to one a season.
7.Recruiting excellent players will be possible when the above points are followed.
8.Patience and determination--it may take a few years.Maintain focus on improvement.
9.Garner more support.Sponsers, Booster clubs ,etc.. Get involved yourself wherever you can with donations or at least attendance to games.It takes years of hard work but it can be done with the proper leadership,interest,and support.

The SBC will only move up if programs become stronger.This thread is over emphasizing scheduling .While scheds are one part they are only one component IMO.Some questioned my nine points by saying "we dont have the money".Sounds like an excuse.MANY things can be done for little or no money.A tremendous amount can be done with better leadership and just a little investment.Better hiring practices(see FIU!!),better academic oversight(see ULM for their improvement), new carpet,fresh paint,better attitudes.If teams just improve RPI from say 310 to 260 this raises the rating of everyone else in the conference.

Once again...football comes first. If I've got a million dollars that I can spend on a football and basketball coach, and I find a strong football coach willing to come for 850K, and I know my football program is where the majority of our athletic and enrollment increases have come from (Statistically proven) Then I am spending that on a football coach, and the basketball team will have to make do.

That is something that WKU fans will never be able to fully understand because you guys have always had a large amount to spend on basketball. The majority of us would have to beg to find a booster willing to spend on it.

And you honestly think a Wichita St or any MVC school would ever consider joining the SBC?

I happen to agree with what you said and that is the reason the SBC will never improve as a conference and a top two 16 seed will become looked on as a improvement

So back to basics....we have to have more money from boosters or media income or football accomplishments or we are "whatever" and tattooed concerning SBC basketball improvements.
Even if we get that extra money most of the SBC schools would not put that additional money into basketball, but would put it into football probably.

(10-01-2013 03:46 PM)MemTGRS Wrote:  Just a coincidence, but I posted on the C-USA board that I thought the SBC did recently enact some type of scheduling mandate. Perhaps even some/all non-conference games facing league office approval?

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=652...pid9793208

The SBC has a rich hoops tradition from the 80's and early 90's. New Mexico State's hoops it outstanding. Other than the geographic issues, they would be a slam dunk for all sports. Another quality non-football school with good basketbal might be something to consider ... but I'm really not thinking of many in the South sans VCU and they're staying Atlantic 10 unless the new Big East calls. At one time, I might have suggested Winthrop (Charlotte area ... strategic bridge from GA State to Appalachian State), but they've fallen since Greg Marshall departed for Wichita State.

Uh yeah... VCU's not going back to the Sun Belt. That was a different league in a different time with no football and completely different programs for the most part.

It was a really good basketball league in the 80's though. Several multi-bid seasons between VCU, ODU, South Florida, Charlotte, Western Kentucky, UAB etc. Good times!

(10-01-2013 04:42 PM)VCUfan Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 03:46 PM)MemTGRS Wrote:  Just a coincidence, but I posted on the C-USA board that I thought the SBC did recently enact some type of scheduling mandate. Perhaps even some/all non-conference games facing league office approval?

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=652...pid9793208

The SBC has a rich hoops tradition from the 80's and early 90's. New Mexico State's hoops it outstanding. Other than the geographic issues, they would be a slam dunk for all sports. Another quality non-football school with good basketbal might be something to consider ... but I'm really not thinking of many in the South sans VCU and they're staying Atlantic 10 unless the new Big East calls. At one time, I might have suggested Winthrop (Charlotte area ... strategic bridge from GA State to Appalachian State), but they've fallen since Greg Marshall departed for Wichita State.

Uh yeah... VCU's not going back to the Sun Belt. That was a different league in a different time with no football and completely different programs for the most part.

It was a really good basketball league in the 80's though. Several multi-bid seasons between VCU, ODU, South Florida, Charlotte, Western Kentucky, UAB etc. Good times!

The league went football. It was our choice and we made the right one. WKU is one of the last basketball schools left. Part of the reason we are rebranding.

(10-01-2013 04:42 PM)VCUfan Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 03:46 PM)MemTGRS Wrote:  Just a coincidence, but I posted on the C-USA board that I thought the SBC did recently enact some type of scheduling mandate. Perhaps even some/all non-conference games facing league office approval?

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=652...pid9793208

The SBC has a rich hoops tradition from the 80's and early 90's. New Mexico State's hoops it outstanding. Other than the geographic issues, they would be a slam dunk for all sports. Another quality non-football school with good basketbal might be something to consider ... but I'm really not thinking of many in the South sans VCU and they're staying Atlantic 10 unless the new Big East calls. At one time, I might have suggested Winthrop (Charlotte area ... strategic bridge from GA State to Appalachian State), but they've fallen since Greg Marshall departed for Wichita State.

Uh yeah... VCU's not going back to the Sun Belt. That was a different league in a different time with no football and completely different programs for the most part.

It was a really good basketball league in the 80's though. Several multi-bid seasons between VCU, ODU, South Florida, Charlotte, Western Kentucky, UAB etc. Good times!

It will take a commitment from each school to spend a little more money and to schedule better teams and to recruit harder. I remember what untexas was saying a few years ago..that they were not going to play anymore nonames. they were going to just play "name" schools that people have heard of, whether they win or lose. the end result is that if you are publicly associated with name schools enough, then the public begins to you and them as peers....perception is key.