Like it actually matter as for a perking order in the Power 5

Tier 1
SEC/B1G & Pac 12

Tier 2
Big XII & ACC...Big XII advantage due to smaller size & Bowl agreement with SEC slightly higher payout...ACC Advantage, more long term potential, currently going forward slightly larger Media Deal with ACC Network on the Horizon.

Either way, all 5 Leagues are stabilized for the next 12 Years and all can grow....Big XII...come to an agreement with BYU/Cincinnati....BYU National Brand....Cincinnati, Louisville Lite...very success on the field & gridiron plus strong recruiting area/TV Market and of course a bridge to WVU.

(04-26-2013 07:07 AM)Maize Wrote:  Like it actually matter as for a perking order in the Power 5

Tier 1
SEC/B1G & Pac 12

Tier 2
Big XII & ACC...Big XII advantage due to smaller size & Bowl agreement with SEC slightly higher payout...ACC Advantage, more long term potential, currently going forward slightly larger Media Deal with ACC Network on the Horizon.

Either way, all 5 Leagues are stabilized for the next 12 Years and all can grow....Big XII...come to an agreement with BYU/Cincinnati....BYU National Brand....Cincinnati, Louisville Lite...very success on the field & gridiron plus strong recruiting area/TV Market and of course a bridge to WVU.

A few observations:

Pac 12 is not tier 1. Their network isn't doing as well as they hoped. Basketball has been terrible. There are a lot of teams in the Pac 12 that are just garbage.

Big 10 is slipping. The next few years will be interesting.

ACC has the most upside...same..new few years will be interesting.

Disagree on the B1G....like it or not they are the Giant in the back rooms.

2. See your point on the Pac 12 but they are extremely stable.

3. Love the ACC longterm potential. The largest TV Footprint with very good market penatration in those markets. National Brands in Football-(Miami, Florida State & Clemson)....National Brands in Football-(UNC, Duke, Louisville & Syracuse).

Plus it is in some great growing markets...now Swofford get to work on the Bowls and ACC Network.

While I agree the Big is still a giant in the room, I believe their choice of Rutgers and Maryland will haunt them. It will provide a nice financial increase but the quality of play will drop. The Big 10 has already been suffering in football over the last few years and last year was just ridiculous. A 7-5 Big 10 team winning the conference championship in front of 40k people. SEC added A&M which will prove to be a match made in heaven, and Missouri to help with basketball. That's much more competitive additions than Md and Rut.

(04-26-2013 07:48 AM)Maize Wrote:  3. Love the ACC longterm potential. The largest TV Footprint with very good market penatration in those markets. National Brands in Football-(Miami, Florida State & Clemson)....National Brands in Football-(UNC, Duke, Louisville & Syracuse).

Plus it is in some great growing markets...now Swofford get to work on the Bowls and ACC Network.

IMO, the ACC has the least growth potential of the P5 because it is hemmed in all around by the B1G and SEC, the two most powerful conferences.

The ACC sought to kill the old Big East to both escape the shadow of the SEC in its southern footprint and to capture the untapped northeast market. But the B1G has moved to thwart that. In the northeast, the ACC has BC, Pitt, and Syracuse but must contend with the new B1G presence (Maryland, Rutgers, Penn State). It is clear the B1G intends to be a very strong competitor in the DC - NYC corridor and has the stronger presence.

In the Southeast, ACC schools have long played in the shadow of the SEC and no reason to think that doesn't continue. Louisville is a small island in SEC/B1G border area.

The only place the ACC rules is ... the state of North Carolina.

The one thing the ACC did do was shore up its faltering basketball. With 4 blue-blood programs in Duke, UNC, Syracuse, and UofL, the ACC should be the new basketball beast. But football? Lots and lots of work to do.

(04-26-2013 06:49 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 06:46 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 05:18 AM)Maize Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 07:19 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  So I'm reading some of this and someone explain how the Big 12 teams are making 25 mil a year in TV revenue.

Quo is somewhat confused...their media deal pays out being reported as $19.8 Million on average....the $25 Million includes all other payouts like Basketball Credits, Bowl Payouts etc...etc.

The league that had the highest media payout if I am not mistaken was the Pac. 12 @ around $22 Million...it is either them or the B1G.

Yes, i was confused on that point, and "nzmorange" corrected me.

I also agree with your other post, that thanks to the GOR the ACC's future is secure, a huge event for the ACC. You guys are last in the P5 pecking order, but can change that by building your brands, and hell being last in the P5 is still a billion miles ahead of the AAC and other non-P5. Like other P5, you guys are getting an enormous pay raise over what you got from bowls and media under the BCS system.

So why is the ACC #5 in the pecking order again? Truly it must be more than money. Even though the ACC will most likely pass the Big 12 and Pac 12 in the next few years.

It is more than money: Structurally, the ACC is clearly #5. The other 4 have paired off in the two top bowls, matching their highest non-playoff teams, while the ACC is odd man out hosting the Orange Bowl.

(04-26-2013 08:06 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 07:48 AM)Maize Wrote:  3. Love the ACC longterm potential. The largest TV Footprint with very good market penatration in those markets. National Brands in Football-(Miami, Florida State & Clemson)....National Brands in Football-(UNC, Duke, Louisville & Syracuse).

Plus it is in some great growing markets...now Swofford get to work on the Bowls and ACC Network.

IMO, the ACC has the least growth potential of the P5 because it is hemmed in all around by the B1G and SEC, the two most powerful conferences.

The ACC sought to kill the old Big East to both escape the shadow of the SEC in its southern footprint and to capture the untapped northeast market. But the B1G has moved to thwart that. In the northeast, the ACC has BC, Pitt, and Syracuse but must contend with the new B1G presence (Maryland, Rutgers, Penn State). It is clear the B1G intends to be a very strong competitor in the DC - NYC corridor and has the stronger presence.

In the Southeast, ACC schools have long played in the shadow of the SEC and no reason to think that doesn't continue. Louisville is a small island in SEC/B1G border area.

The only place the ACC rules is ... the state of North Carolina.

The one thing the ACC did do was shore up its faltering basketball. With 4 blue-blood programs in Duke, UNC, Syracuse, and UofL, the ACC should be the new basketball beast. But football? Lots and lots of work to do.

You're kidding right? So the ACC has the least potential but was able to swing a deal with ND, increase their media rights payout by millions a year, and on their way to creating a conference network.... And has the largest footprint of all conferences. Not to mention the ACC is already the 2nd most watched basketball conference and third in football. This is all while FSU and Miami weren't elite. Just wait until they get back to that status again. ACC will have FSU, Miami, VT, Clemson in the top tier and then depth with GT, Louisville, UNC, Pitt, UVA, NC State.

(04-26-2013 08:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 06:49 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 06:46 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 05:18 AM)Maize Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 07:19 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  So I'm reading some of this and someone explain how the Big 12 teams are making 25 mil a year in TV revenue.

Quo is somewhat confused...their media deal pays out being reported as $19.8 Million on average....the $25 Million includes all other payouts like Basketball Credits, Bowl Payouts etc...etc.

The league that had the highest media payout if I am not mistaken was the Pac. 12 @ around $22 Million...it is either them or the B1G.

Yes, i was confused on that point, and "nzmorange" corrected me.

I also agree with your other post, that thanks to the GOR the ACC's future is secure, a huge event for the ACC. You guys are last in the P5 pecking order, but can change that by building your brands, and hell being last in the P5 is still a billion miles ahead of the AAC and other non-P5. Like other P5, you guys are getting an enormous pay raise over what you got from bowls and media under the BCS system.

So why is the ACC #5 in the pecking order again? Truly it must be more than money. Even though the ACC will most likely pass the Big 12 and Pac 12 in the next few years.

It is more than money: Structurally, the ACC is clearly #5. The other 4 have paired off in the two top bowls, matching their highest non-playoff teams, while the ACC is odd man out hosting the Orange Bowl.

So ACC is #5 based on bowl pairings? Please. So if the Big 12 is getting their brains bashed in every year in the Sugar Bowl, but the ACC is winning the OB that somehow means they are higher than the ACC. Yeah right....

Actually quo...could not disagree more. Again all 5 are strong but the one with the least potential long term is the Big XII:

1. They have the smallest media markets of the Power 5...plus as of right now they have the smallest Media Deal of the leagues...it the State of Texas...that pretty much it...they kind of have the same issue as the old SWC.

2. The Big XII like the ACC is helmed in by two other Giants...the Pac 12 & B1G....their GoR expires 2 years before the ACC as well.

Now, I think you are just looking @ the Sugar Bowl Deal...but the problem is the Cotton Bowl is now gone and they need to find a replacement.

In the end of the Power 5 you have IMO 3 Top leagues-(some say 2)....but overall both the Big XII & ACC have pluses and minus...it is a matter of how you look @ it.

(04-24-2013 04:01 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(04-24-2013 03:51 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Given that B1G games are already splashed throughout ESPN and ESPN2, it's difficult to say the B1G "nearly doubled the number of eyeballs" with Maryland and Rutgers. They added a few eyeballs, yes, but they didn't double with UMD and Rutgers.

More people will watch Maryland play B1G teams than ever watched the Terps playing UNC, GT, Clemson, or most of the rest of the ACC. By the same token, more folks in New Jersey will tune in to see Rutgers playing B1G teams than ever watched them playing in The BEast. If you think otherwise, you're not thinking...

With huge B10 alumni bases in NYC & DC, Rutgers and MD will see a significant attendance growth and far fewer half attended games

(04-25-2013 02:30 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  What that means is they (B1G fans in the area) will go to see their team play Rutgers and dump the rest of the tickets among underlings and coworkers who might or might not go. I have no doubt attendance will go up but will the seats be filled for teams named Indiana, Northwestern, Purdue, etc...?

Rutgers & MD will see alot more football ticket revenue and should see additional $ in hoops as well from Purdue, Michigan, OSU, Illinois, Iowa and Indiana alums in NYC & DC.

Big 10 will help Maryland and Rutgers financially but I'm still skeptical about the attendance especially if Md and Rutgers suck. Penn State doesn't sell out most of their basketball games now, neither does Nebraska or Northwestern. As for football, teams like Indiana, Illinois, Minn, Northwestern don't fill up either and they've been in the Big 10 the whole time.

(04-26-2013 06:40 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 08:29 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 06:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 12:25 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  1. Maybe not. If the OB pays out $55 million every year, if the ACC keeps all $55 million when it hosts, and if ND plays in it twice, then the ACC gets almost exactly $40 million/yr on average.

The ACC will never get $55 million because that is the total payout from the Orange Bowl. If an ACC team plays a B1G or SEC team, each will get $27.5 million (meaning the SEC and B1G get that ON TOP of the $40 million from the Rose/Sugar ... wow!).

If Notre Dame plays an ACC team, then the split is $13.5 million for ND, $41.5m for the ACC, actually more than the SEC and B1G get for their BCS-level games.

ACC better hope Notre Dame plays in a LOT of Orange Bowls, LOL. In your scenario, with ND playing twice in a four year period, the ACC's average payout would be $35.5 million, well below the Big 12 and WAY below the B1G and SEC, whose payouts would average (between the Rose/Sugar and Orange) over $47 million.

My scenario has ND playing twice in a 12 year period and the game hosting 4 times in a 12 year period. That would mean that the ACC plays the SEC/B1G 6 times in a 12 year period.

6*27.5=165 <-- money from SEC/B1G OB games
2*41.25=82.5 <-- money from ND games
4*55=220 <-- money from hosting

220+165+82.5=467.5 over the langeth of the contract.

467.5/12=38.96/yr on average.

As I said earlier:

(04-25-2013 12:25 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  If the OB pays out $55 million every year, if the ACC keeps all $55 million when it hosts, and if ND plays in it twice, then the ACC gets almost exactly $40 million/yr on average.

The ACC is only $1.04 million/yr behind the Pac-12 and the Big XII. They split it fewer ways, but the difference isn't significant:

40/10=4 <-- Big XII payout
40/12=3.33 <-- Pac-12 payout
38.96/14=2.78 <-- ACC payout

Each ACC team would make $1.22 million less than each Big XII team and $550K less than each Pac-12 team.

Concerning the Orange Bowl, my understanding of the money breakdown in your 12-year scenario would be:

Total Orange Bowl Payout: 12 x $55 million = $660 million

Notre Dame gets: 2 years x $13.5 million = $27m

B1G and SEC get (collectively): 10 x $27.5m = $275m

ACC gets: 10 years it plays B1G or SEC x $27.5m = $275m

ACC gets: 2 years it plays Notre Dame x $41.5m = $83m

Total ACC: $275m + $83m = $358m +
Total Notre Dame: $27m +
Total B1g/SEC: $275m = $660m (total OB payout)

ACC Per Year Payout: $358m/12 = $29.8m

Beyond that, i concede on the numbers regarding the media deal, and they aren't as bad as i originally thought. Still, the ACC is still last in both media deals and bowl situation, that has to make the ACC 5th among the P5.

The B1G and the SEC only get money when they send teams to the OB. They don't send team when the OB hosts the playoff which happens 4X (once every 3 years). Think about it. Who would get the money? Anyway, if I'm right, and I'm pretty sure that I am, you are overstating SEC/B1G money by $110 million and understating ACC revenue by $110 million. That's why you are getting a really, really low ACC payout.

Don't get me wrong, the SEC and the B1G get higher payouts because they get $27.5 million when they play in the OB, whereas the ACC, B1G XII, and Pac-12 onlt get access bowl spayouts when their home bowl hosts. Since $27.5 is probs > access bowl payouts, the SEC and the B1G have an advantage. However, that difference only happens once every 3 years, so the yearly average is the difference divided by 3, and the per team yearly average is the difference divided by 42 (14teams*3years=42 to get per team per year). If the ACC/Big XII/Pac-12 gets $10 million for playing in an access bowl, then the yearly difference would be $5.833 million, which is $417k/year/team. If the ACC/Big XII/Pac-12 gets $15 million for playing in an access bowl, then the yearly difference would be $4.167 million, which is $298k/year/team. If the ACC/Big XII/Pac-12 gets $20 million for playing in an access bowl, then the average yearly difference would be $2.5 million, which is $179K/school/year. In short, there is almost certainly a difference and it will favor the B1G/SEC, but the difference is minimal.

That would make the combined payout: (assuming $10 million access bowl payouts)
PAYOUTS
Big XII: $40 + $3.33 = $43.33/yr / 10 teams = $4.33/yr/team
SEC: $40 + $9.167/yr = $49.167/yr / 14 teams =$3.5/yr/team
B1G: $40 + $9.167/yr = $49.167/yr / 14 teams =$3.5/yr/team
Pac-12: $40 + $3.33 = $43.33/yr / 12 teams = $3.61/yr/team
ACC: $38.96 + $3.33 = $42.29/yr / 14 teams =$3.02/yr/team
EXCESS OF ACC
Big XII: $4.33 - $3.02 = $1.31/school/year
SEC: $3.51 - $3.02 = $490K/school/year
B1G: $3.51 - $3.02 = $490K/school/year
Pac-12: $3.61 - $3.02 = $590K/school/year
Average: $720K/school/year

That would make the combined payout: (assuming $15 million access bowl payouts)
PAYOUTS
Big XII: $40 + $5 = $45/yr / 10 teams = $4.5/yr/team
SEC: $40 + $9.167/yr = $49.167/yr / 14 teams =$3.5/yr/team
B1G: $40 + $9.167/yr = $49.167/yr / 14 teams =$3.5/yr/team
Pac-12: $40 + $5 = $45/yr / 12 teams = $3.75/yr/team
ACC: $38.96 + $5 = $43.96/yr / 14 teams = $3.14/yr/team
EXCESS OF ACC
Big XII: $4.5 - $3.14 = $1.36/school/year
SEC: $3.51 - $3.14 = $370K/school/year
B1G: $3.51 - $3.14 = $370K/school/year
Pac-12: $3.75 - $3.14 = $610K/school/year
Average: $678K/school/year

That would make the combined payout: (assuming $20 million access bowl payouts)
PAYOUTS
Big XII: $40 + $6.67 = $46.67/yr / 10 teams = $4.67/yr/team
SEC: $40 + $9.167/yr = $49.167/yr / 14 teams =$3.5/yr/team
B1G: $40 + $9.167/yr = $49.167/yr / 14 teams =$3.5/yr/team
Pac-12: $40 + $6.67 = $46.67/yr / 12 teams = $3.89/yr/team
ACC: $38.96 + $6.67 = $45.63/yr / 14 teams =$3.26/yr/team
EXCESS OF ACC
Big XII: $4.67 - $3.26 = $1.41/school/year
SEC: $3.51 - $3.26 = $250K/school/year
B1G: $3.51 - $3.26 = $250K/school/year
Pac-12: $3.89 - $3.26 = $630K/school/year
Average: $635K/school/year

**The Big XII has a higher per team playoff payout, but they do so at the expense of a conference championship game, so their revenues are overstated by about $500K to $1 million/school/year**

(04-26-2013 08:14 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 08:06 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 07:48 AM)Maize Wrote:  3. Love the ACC longterm potential. The largest TV Footprint with very good market penatration in those markets. National Brands in Football-(Miami, Florida State & Clemson)....National Brands in Football-(UNC, Duke, Louisville & Syracuse).

Plus it is in some great growing markets...now Swofford get to work on the Bowls and ACC Network.

IMO, the ACC has the least growth potential of the P5 because it is hemmed in all around by the B1G and SEC, the two most powerful conferences.

The ACC sought to kill the old Big East to both escape the shadow of the SEC in its southern footprint and to capture the untapped northeast market. But the B1G has moved to thwart that. In the northeast, the ACC has BC, Pitt, and Syracuse but must contend with the new B1G presence (Maryland, Rutgers, Penn State). It is clear the B1G intends to be a very strong competitor in the DC - NYC corridor and has the stronger presence.

In the Southeast, ACC schools have long played in the shadow of the SEC and no reason to think that doesn't continue. Louisville is a small island in SEC/B1G border area.

The only place the ACC rules is ... the state of North Carolina.

The one thing the ACC did do was shore up its faltering basketball. With 4 blue-blood programs in Duke, UNC, Syracuse, and UofL, the ACC should be the new basketball beast. But football? Lots and lots of work to do.

You're kidding right? So the ACC has the least potential but was able to swing a deal with ND, increase their media rights payout by millions a year, and on their way to creating a conference network.... And has the largest footprint of all conferences. Not to mention the ACC is already the 2nd most watched basketball conference and third in football. This is all while FSU and Miami weren't elite. Just wait until they get back to that status again. ACC will have FSU, Miami, VT, Clemson in the top tier and then depth with GT, Louisville, UNC, Pitt, UVA, NC State.

This is really surprising. Some are actually arguing that the ACC isn't the weakest of the P5 litter? Weird.

The ACC was able to "swing a deal" with Notre Dame all right - wasn't that a deal that Swofford swore they would never make? Yeah, that was surely a sign of strength, LOL. As was having a founding member swiped by the B1G.

The ACC's footprint is obviously the smallest, because (1) your undisputed footprint is very small (basically, North Carolina), and (2) wherever yours overlaps with another P5, you are clearly second banana. E.g., I hate to break the news, but Georgia isn't in the ACC footprint, it's in the SEC footprint. Ditto for Kentucky.

Florida is a special case: while Miami has a decent following and FSU has a very good following in that state, that doesn't carry over into interest in the ACC. Florida, OTOH, not only has the biggest following in the state, but the state itself identifies with the SEC. There are lots of football fans in Florida who care about what LSU, Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, etc. are doing, nobody cares what Virginia, Clemson, and North Carolina are doing.

As i explained, you guys are trapped between the SEC and B1G. You're hemmed in, going nowhere else.

(04-26-2013 08:19 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 08:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 06:49 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 06:46 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 05:18 AM)Maize Wrote:  Quo is somewhat confused...their media deal pays out being reported as $19.8 Million on average....the $25 Million includes all other payouts like Basketball Credits, Bowl Payouts etc...etc.

The league that had the highest media payout if I am not mistaken was the Pac. 12 @ around $22 Million...it is either them or the B1G.

Yes, i was confused on that point, and "nzmorange" corrected me.

I also agree with your other post, that thanks to the GOR the ACC's future is secure, a huge event for the ACC. You guys are last in the P5 pecking order, but can change that by building your brands, and hell being last in the P5 is still a billion miles ahead of the AAC and other non-P5. Like other P5, you guys are getting an enormous pay raise over what you got from bowls and media under the BCS system.

So why is the ACC #5 in the pecking order again? Truly it must be more than money. Even though the ACC will most likely pass the Big 12 and Pac 12 in the next few years.

It is more than money: Structurally, the ACC is clearly #5. The other 4 have paired off in the two top bowls, matching their highest non-playoff teams, while the ACC is odd man out hosting the Orange Bowl.

So ACC is #5 based on bowl pairings? Please. So if the Big 12 is getting their brains bashed in every year in the Sugar Bowl, but the ACC is winning the OB that somehow means they are higher than the ACC. Yeah right....

Since the Sugar Bowl is higher in the pecking order than the Orange Bowl, yes, that is exactly what it means.

(04-26-2013 04:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 08:14 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 08:06 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 07:48 AM)Maize Wrote:  3. Love the ACC longterm potential. The largest TV Footprint with very good market penatration in those markets. National Brands in Football-(Miami, Florida State & Clemson)....National Brands in Football-(UNC, Duke, Louisville & Syracuse).

Plus it is in some great growing markets...now Swofford get to work on the Bowls and ACC Network.

IMO, the ACC has the least growth potential of the P5 because it is hemmed in all around by the B1G and SEC, the two most powerful conferences.

The ACC sought to kill the old Big East to both escape the shadow of the SEC in its southern footprint and to capture the untapped northeast market. But the B1G has moved to thwart that. In the northeast, the ACC has BC, Pitt, and Syracuse but must contend with the new B1G presence (Maryland, Rutgers, Penn State). It is clear the B1G intends to be a very strong competitor in the DC - NYC corridor and has the stronger presence.

In the Southeast, ACC schools have long played in the shadow of the SEC and no reason to think that doesn't continue. Louisville is a small island in SEC/B1G border area.

The only place the ACC rules is ... the state of North Carolina.

The one thing the ACC did do was shore up its faltering basketball. With 4 blue-blood programs in Duke, UNC, Syracuse, and UofL, the ACC should be the new basketball beast. But football? Lots and lots of work to do.

You're kidding right? So the ACC has the least potential but was able to swing a deal with ND, increase their media rights payout by millions a year, and on their way to creating a conference network.... And has the largest footprint of all conferences. Not to mention the ACC is already the 2nd most watched basketball conference and third in football. This is all while FSU and Miami weren't elite. Just wait until they get back to that status again. ACC will have FSU, Miami, VT, Clemson in the top tier and then depth with GT, Louisville, UNC, Pitt, UVA, NC State.

This is really surprising. Some are actually arguing that the ACC isn't the weakest of the P5 litter? Weird.

1)The ACC was able to "swing a deal" with Notre Dame all right - wasn't that a deal that Swofford swore they would never make? Yeah, that was surely a sign of strength, LOL.

2)As was having a founding member swiped by the B1G.

3)The ACC's footprint is obviously the smallest, because (1) your undisputed footprint is very small (basically, North Carolina), and (2) wherever yours overlaps with another P5, you are clearly second banana. E.g., I hate to break the news, but Georgia isn't in the ACC footprint, it's in the SEC footprint. Ditto for Kentucky.

1)Wasnt the Big 12 also trying to land ND as a partial member? Who did ND choose?

2) How many founding members did the Big 12 lose? Four wasnt it?

3) You seem to forget about Virginia. Upstate NY, which is larger than most states is now undisputed ACC. Also, Clemson is a bigger brand than South Carolina, by far. So if Georgia is SEC, than South Carolina is ACC.

(04-26-2013 04:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 08:14 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 08:06 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 07:48 AM)Maize Wrote:  3. Love the ACC longterm potential. The largest TV Footprint with very good market penatration in those markets. National Brands in Football-(Miami, Florida State & Clemson)....National Brands in Football-(UNC, Duke, Louisville & Syracuse).

Plus it is in some great growing markets...now Swofford get to work on the Bowls and ACC Network.

IMO, the ACC has the least growth potential of the P5 because it is hemmed in all around by the B1G and SEC, the two most powerful conferences.

The ACC sought to kill the old Big East to both escape the shadow of the SEC in its southern footprint and to capture the untapped northeast market. But the B1G has moved to thwart that. In the northeast, the ACC has BC, Pitt, and Syracuse but must contend with the new B1G presence (Maryland, Rutgers, Penn State). It is clear the B1G intends to be a very strong competitor in the DC - NYC corridor and has the stronger presence.

In the Southeast, ACC schools have long played in the shadow of the SEC and no reason to think that doesn't continue. Louisville is a small island in SEC/B1G border area.

The only place the ACC rules is ... the state of North Carolina.

The one thing the ACC did do was shore up its faltering basketball. With 4 blue-blood programs in Duke, UNC, Syracuse, and UofL, the ACC should be the new basketball beast. But football? Lots and lots of work to do.

You're kidding right? So the ACC has the least potential but was able to swing a deal with ND, increase their media rights payout by millions a year, and on their way to creating a conference network.... And has the largest footprint of all conferences. Not to mention the ACC is already the 2nd most watched basketball conference and third in football. This is all while FSU and Miami weren't elite. Just wait until they get back to that status again. ACC will have FSU, Miami, VT, Clemson in the top tier and then depth with GT, Louisville, UNC, Pitt, UVA, NC State.

This is really surprising. Some are actually arguing that the ACC isn't the weakest of the P5 litter? Weird.

The ACC was able to "swing a deal" with Notre Dame all right - wasn't that a deal that Swofford swore they would never make? Yeah, that was surely a sign of strength, LOL. As was having a founding member swiped by the B1G.

The ACC's footprint is obviously the smallest, because (1) your undisputed footprint is very small (basically, North Carolina), and (2) wherever yours overlaps with another P5, you are clearly second banana. E.g., I hate to break the news, but Georgia isn't in the ACC footprint, it's in the SEC footprint. Ditto for Kentucky.

Florida is a special case: while Miami has a decent following and FSU has a very good following in that state, that doesn't carry over into interest in the ACC. Florida, OTOH, not only has the biggest following in the state, but the state itself identifies with the SEC. There are lots of football fans in Florida who care about what LSU, Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, etc. are doing, nobody cares what Virginia, Clemson, and North Carolina are doing.

As i explained, you guys are trapped between the SEC and B1G. You're hemmed in, going nowhere else.

The ACC is trapped? They own or share all of Florida, Atlanta, South Carolina, Charlotte, Raleigh/Durham, Richmond, Norfolk/Hampton Roads, Washington DC, Boston, New York, Pittsburgh, and Louisville. You claim they have the smallest footprint and are trapped?

I know those cities can't compete with Morgantown, Ames, Manhattan, Lawrence, Lubbock, Norman and Stillwater, right?

Quo is confused again:

1. I guess he forgot that the Big XII lost 4 members to either the Pac 12, B1G & SEC. Ao if the ACC is hemmed in by the SEC/B1G then the Big XII is trapped/eyed on by 3 Power 5 leagues.

2. He also forgot that the Big XII offer ND the exact same deal...I guess he also forgot that Texas inquired the ACC about membership.

He hung up on the Sugar Bowl...fact is this...the Bowls are nice but in the true landscape it is about being in the Semifinals...the 3 Contract Bowls are the main Bowls since the Access Bowls-(Peach Bowl, Fiesta Bowl & Cotton Bowl).

The only thing that is laughable is that anyone would try to put the Big XII or even the level as the SEC/B1G. Those two leagues have 2 Access points into the CFP along with the Semifinals.

The Big XII Dominates Texas, Oklahoma, West Virginia & Kansas...Outside of Texas flyover country.

The ACC has New York, North Carolina, Virginia and is the "Stronger Brand" in South Carolina...in Florida it is the Panhandle/South Florida...the rest of the state is Gator Country...the ACC has the Largest Population Base of All the Power 5 Leagues-(That why Delany wanted those school) and unlike the BIG EAST they have market penetration.

To put it another way....the ACC Presidents if they wanted to could have went to the SEC, B1G-(The FSU President was dead set against going to the Big XII if you read the article yesterday)....they all said no...happy where they are at and raking in $$$$ with Good Bowls....they don't feel like "runts"...just saying...

Quo is spot on. Regardless, being in the ACC is still much better than the Go5. Not having a brand equivalent to Oklahoma or Texas makes ACC defacto number 5.

(04-26-2013 10:56 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 06:40 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 08:29 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 06:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 12:25 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  1. Maybe not. If the OB pays out $55 million every year, if the ACC keeps all $55 million when it hosts, and if ND plays in it twice, then the ACC gets almost exactly $40 million/yr on average.

The ACC will never get $55 million because that is the total payout from the Orange Bowl. If an ACC team plays a B1G or SEC team, each will get $27.5 million (meaning the SEC and B1G get that ON TOP of the $40 million from the Rose/Sugar ... wow!).

If Notre Dame plays an ACC team, then the split is $13.5 million for ND, $41.5m for the ACC, actually more than the SEC and B1G get for their BCS-level games.

ACC better hope Notre Dame plays in a LOT of Orange Bowls, LOL. In your scenario, with ND playing twice in a four year period, the ACC's average payout would be $35.5 million, well below the Big 12 and WAY below the B1G and SEC, whose payouts would average (between the Rose/Sugar and Orange) over $47 million.

My scenario has ND playing twice in a 12 year period and the game hosting 4 times in a 12 year period. That would mean that the ACC plays the SEC/B1G 6 times in a 12 year period.

6*27.5=165 <-- money from SEC/B1G OB games
2*41.25=82.5 <-- money from ND games
4*55=220 <-- money from hosting

220+165+82.5=467.5 over the langeth of the contract.

467.5/12=38.96/yr on average.

As I said earlier:

(04-25-2013 12:25 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  If the OB pays out $55 million every year, if the ACC keeps all $55 million when it hosts, and if ND plays in it twice, then the ACC gets almost exactly $40 million/yr on average.

The ACC is only $1.04 million/yr behind the Pac-12 and the Big XII. They split it fewer ways, but the difference isn't significant:

40/10=4 <-- Big XII payout
40/12=3.33 <-- Pac-12 payout
38.96/14=2.78 <-- ACC payout

Each ACC team would make $1.22 million less than each Big XII team and $550K less than each Pac-12 team.

Concerning the Orange Bowl, my understanding of the money breakdown in your 12-year scenario would be:

Total Orange Bowl Payout: 12 x $55 million = $660 million

Notre Dame gets: 2 years x $13.5 million = $27m

B1G and SEC get (collectively): 10 x $27.5m = $275m

ACC gets: 10 years it plays B1G or SEC x $27.5m = $275m

ACC gets: 2 years it plays Notre Dame x $41.5m = $83m

Total ACC: $275m + $83m = $358m +
Total Notre Dame: $27m +
Total B1g/SEC: $275m = $660m (total OB payout)

ACC Per Year Payout: $358m/12 = $29.8m

Beyond that, i concede on the numbers regarding the media deal, and they aren't as bad as i originally thought. Still, the ACC is still last in both media deals and bowl situation, that has to make the ACC 5th among the P5.

The B1G and the SEC only get money when they send teams to the OB. They don't send team when the OB hosts the playoff which happens 4X (once every 3 years). Think about it. Who would get the money? Anyway, if I'm right, and I'm pretty sure that I am, you are overstating SEC/B1G money by $110 million and understating ACC revenue by $110 million. That's why you are getting a really, really low ACC payout.

Don't get me wrong, the SEC and the B1G get higher payouts because they get $27.5 million when they play in the OB, whereas the ACC, B1G XII, and Pac-12 onlt get access bowl spayouts when their home bowl hosts. Since $27.5 is probs > access bowl payouts, the SEC and the B1G have an advantage. However, that difference only happens once every 3 years, so the yearly average is the difference divided by 3, and the per team yearly average is the difference divided by 42 (14teams*3years=42 to get per team per year). If the ACC/Big XII/Pac-12 gets $10 million for playing in an access bowl, then the yearly difference would be $5.833 million, which is $417k/year/team. If the ACC/Big XII/Pac-12 gets $15 million for playing in an access bowl, then the yearly difference would be $4.167 million, which is $298k/year/team. If the ACC/Big XII/Pac-12 gets $20 million for playing in an access bowl, then the average yearly difference would be $2.5 million, which is $179K/school/year. In short, there is almost certainly a difference and it will favor the B1G/SEC, but the difference is minimal.

That would make the combined payout: (assuming $10 million access bowl payouts)
PAYOUTS
Big XII: $40 + $3.33 = $43.33/yr / 10 teams = $4.33/yr/team
SEC: $40 + $9.167/yr = $49.167/yr / 14 teams =$3.5/yr/team
B1G: $40 + $9.167/yr = $49.167/yr / 14 teams =$3.5/yr/team
Pac-12: $40 + $3.33 = $43.33/yr / 12 teams = $3.61/yr/team
ACC: $38.96 + $3.33 = $42.29/yr / 14 teams =$3.02/yr/team
EXCESS OF ACC
Big XII: $4.33 - $3.02 = $1.31/school/year
SEC: $3.51 - $3.02 = $490K/school/year
B1G: $3.51 - $3.02 = $490K/school/year
Pac-12: $3.61 - $3.02 = $590K/school/year
Average: $720K/school/year

That would make the combined payout: (assuming $15 million access bowl payouts)
PAYOUTS
Big XII: $40 + $5 = $45/yr / 10 teams = $4.5/yr/team
SEC: $40 + $9.167/yr = $49.167/yr / 14 teams =$3.5/yr/team
B1G: $40 + $9.167/yr = $49.167/yr / 14 teams =$3.5/yr/team
Pac-12: $40 + $5 = $45/yr / 12 teams = $3.75/yr/team
ACC: $38.96 + $5 = $43.96/yr / 14 teams = $3.14/yr/team
EXCESS OF ACC
Big XII: $4.5 - $3.14 = $1.36/school/year
SEC: $3.51 - $3.14 = $370K/school/year
B1G: $3.51 - $3.14 = $370K/school/year
Pac-12: $3.75 - $3.14 = $610K/school/year
Average: $678K/school/year

That would make the combined payout: (assuming $20 million access bowl payouts)
PAYOUTS
Big XII: $40 + $6.67 = $46.67/yr / 10 teams = $4.67/yr/team
SEC: $40 + $9.167/yr = $49.167/yr / 14 teams =$3.5/yr/team
B1G: $40 + $9.167/yr = $49.167/yr / 14 teams =$3.5/yr/team
Pac-12: $40 + $6.67 = $46.67/yr / 12 teams = $3.89/yr/team
ACC: $38.96 + $6.67 = $45.63/yr / 14 teams =$3.26/yr/team
EXCESS OF ACC
Big XII: $4.67 - $3.26 = $1.41/school/year
SEC: $3.51 - $3.26 = $250K/school/year
B1G: $3.51 - $3.26 = $250K/school/year
Pac-12: $3.89 - $3.26 = $630K/school/year
Average: $635K/school/year

**The Big XII has a higher per team playoff payout, but they do so at the expense of a conference championship game, so their revenues are overstated by about $500K to $1 million/school/year**

I have to concede i am not smart enough to follow your point, and i do not mean that sarcastically.

Maybe we need to know what the payout for the OB and Sugar are in years when they host playoffs and years they do not.