Lurker Above’s Plan to Expand the Sun Belt Conference

The SBC will be at a measly 8 schools in a year, and with the possibility of further schools leaving, the SBC needs to expand greatly to preserve a healthy conference membership, have a championship game (and likely a championship semifinals in the near future), expand to new markets, and most important of all, add teams that can schedule games against quality opponents and beat them. While the other conferences are expanding by bringing in schools that are located in good markets, the SBC needs to bring in schools that can win football games. The schools I believe the SBC should add are mostly FCS schools, but they are winners and will explode once they get to the FBS level. Worrying about the FCS stigma is extremely short sited, and a little hypocritical, since a majority of SBC schools themselves were FCS (Division II) only a few years ago.

I believe the Sun Belt should increase in size dramatically, at least to 16, but ideally 20, because that is where conferences are headed. The B1G and SEC will be at 20 soon enough and the SBC should match them in size. 20 programs allows for a greater saturation of the State of Texas and gets the SBC into NC and VA. Additionally, a conference champion that is the best of 20 teams, especially when conference semi finals are allowed, would have a greater strength of schedule to help it get a higher ranking and earn the 6th BCS Bowl slot, as well as additional bowls for other SBC teams. Most importantly, if more SBC teams are taking bowl slots then that is fewer slots for teams in the other Group of Five conferences; therefore, the SBC rises and the other Gof5 conferences fall. It would be wise to get as much of the market in quality football programs into the SBC as possible so the SBC would have more of the good teams playing in bowls being conference mates. Let the other Gof5 conferences choke on their large markets and weak strength of schedules.

What the Sun Belt Conference needs most of all is strong football schools, whereever they can be found, and it just so happens these schools can be found in the FCS. I understand some of the Sun Belt schools are concerned about bringing in too many FCS schools because they are afraid the SBC will be seen as a FCS conference. I understand that; however, that stigma will fade in a few years as these schools start winning games against teams in other conferences. The SBC should only be thinking about increasing the conference’s strength, and it is extremely unwise for it to be worrying about anything else.

This plan is also a long term investment in capturing as many 6th BCS Bowls, and as many other bowls, as possible. Gaining markets or sharing markets with current schools should be of little concern to the Sun Belt Conference. The truth is none of these schools truly deliver their markets on their own, and the same is true for all current members and those already invited. Georgia State will not bring the Atlanta market any more the Tulane will bring the New Orleans’ market to the Big East. The way forward for the SBC is to increase its marketability through conference strength. If teams in the Sun Belt win, people will watch. If people are watching, the SBC teams are making money. It is that simple. Win and get paid; it will not matter what side of the tracks you came from.

These proposed additions would maintain the tight geographic fit the Sun Belt enjoys but expand it over most of the south by bringing in the best FCS schools in the nation that is not in the upper northwest or northeast. Close regional rivalries make for greater fan interest and having this many teams throughout the south would make it easier to market the conference to regional sports channels. Since very few SBC games are going to be broadcast nationally, the SBC needs to focus on regional interests and expanding that region as far as possible while maintaining the highest level of fan interest possible. The best ways to do that is bring in schools that are quality football programs, are already rivals with each other and are in close proximity to existing members to create new, intense rivalries. The positives of such additions outweigh any perceived negatives concerning turf invasion. Close rivalries are the most intense rivalries. Ask Alabama and Auburn fans, or fans of USC and UCLA, etc.

THE PLAN

First, invite Georgia Southern, Appalachian State, and Chattanooga from the Southern Conference. The Eagles and the Mountaineers provide instant football strength and are no brainers. The Moccasins are a quality football program with good sports infrastructure. Inviting Chattanooga gets the Sun Belt back into the State of Tennessee and provides a bridge to the other additions. This gets you to 11 schools.

Second, invite James Madison from the Colonial Athletic Association to provide more football strength. Invite them now before the Mid-American does. Now the SBC is at 12.

Third, invite the Richmond Spiders to get a second team in the State of Virginia. The Spiders are rivals of James Madison. Then invite Murray State from the Ohio Valley Conference. These two teams will give the Sun Belt a much needed boast in basketball, which would help bring in NCAA basketball tournament money, and both are quality football programs. The Sun Belt is now at 14.

Fourth, invite Lamar, Sam Houston and Stephen F. Austin from the Southland Conference. This gets the SBC to 17.

Fifth, invite New Mexico State from the WAC. NMS is the only current FBS School in this expansion proposal and NMS’s invite may be contingent on the SBC getting more schools in Texas in order to maintain the desired close geographic fit. The SBC is now at 18.

Sixth, invite Jacksonville State and Eastern Kentucky from the Ohio Valley Conference. These are quality football programs that their in-state rivals will love to hate. Now the SBC is at 20.

This should get the Sun Belt Conference to 20, though some schools might need a couple of years to get ready. During this time period the B1G and the SEC will most likely have moved to at least 16; therefore, the NCAA will probably have changed its rules to allow subdivisions and conference championships.

Why 20 and not 16? All 12 of these additions make the conference stronger, and again, since there is no large TV contract there should not be any “more mouths to feed” arguments. This conference needs more teams in a nice expanded region so more people will be interested in the Sun Belt Conference throughout the South. The SBC conference also needs schools that will win long term. These schools do that.

WEST
Western Division
UT-Arlington
Sam Houston
Stephen F. Austin
New Mexico State
Lamar

Central Division
Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana-Monroe
Arkansas State
Western Kentucky
Murray State

EAST
Southern Division
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
Jacksonville State
Troy
South Alabama

Northern Division
Appalachian State
Chattanooga
Eastern Kentucky
James Madison
Richmond

If Western Kentucky leaves the SBC then Coastal Carolina should be invited and placed in the Southern Division, which would cause South Alabama to move to the WEST into the Central Division. McNeese State would be next in line.

That is the plan. I know many of these schools may not impress many of you, but they will compete and win long term. That is what is important.

Lurker Above

Why not just go play FCS football...well thought out but an awful idea. I would want nothing to do with that conference.

No! 8-10 SBC teams is the best number.

Besides, inviting 12 FCS moveups would likely cause the NCAA to throw the Belt, the MAC, CUSA, and everyone else not AQ into some sort of 1-AA level.

Oh My Word.

Tom makes a good point. There are two levels of thought permeating across the current AQ leagues.

One is to reclassify and/or break off. The closer we get to mega conferences the closer we are to a breaking off, but I believe reclassification is more likely at least at first. This kind of move would further fuel that flame.

The other option that I hear is slowly letting the non-AQ's kill themselves off by doing stuff just like this. Let me explain how any further additions (much less that many) results in lower revenue and increased financial problems for all of us. This example just uses the TV money from the new ESPN/playoff deal. Doesn't even include other marketing revenues.

Big 5 get 80% of $5.6 billion over 12 years. That's approximately $373.3 million to be spread among the big five. That's about $6 million per school.

F*cked 5 get 20% of $5.6 billion over 12 which equals about 93 million. That's about $1.6 million per school assuming that it's split equally but I think we all know the Big East is going to do everything they can to f us out of more of it. With the Sun Belt and C-USA bringing up five more I-AA schools everyone else is going to lose an additional $100,000. Bring up ten more and it's going to cost everyone else $300,000 a year.

Bottom line here is we're not going to get an increased share of the pie collectively. The reality is the opposite because we're adding more mouth's to feed. It would behoove both the Sun Belt and C-USA to say screw it if either conference loses anymore. The more schools we bring up the more we're reducing our own financial well-being. So, again we're dealing in thousands of dollars (and subtracting revenue by adding more schools) while the big five are dealing in millions and adding to their net worth. I don't care if I'm in a conference with only seven other schools. We have to stop this nonsense of bringing up I-AA's unless they will unquestionably add monetary (i.e. TV) value to our conferences.

(12-09-2012 03:21 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Tom makes a good point. There are two levels of thought permeating across the current AQ leagues.

One is to reclassify and/or break off. The closer we get to mega conferences the closer we are to a breaking off, but I believe reclassification is more likely at least at first. This kind of move would further fuel that flame.

The other option that I hear is slowly letting the non-AQ's kill themselves off by doing stuff just like this. Let me explain how any further additions (much less that many) results in lower revenue and increased financial problems for all of us. This example just uses the TV money from the new ESPN/playoff deal. Doesn't even include other marketing revenues.

Big 5 get 80% of $5.6 billion over 12 years. That's approximately $373.3 million to be spread among the big five. That's about $6 million per school.

F*cked 5 get 20% of $5.6 billion over 12 which equals about 93 million. That's about $1.6 million per school assuming that it's split equally but I think we all know the Big East is going to do everything they can to f us out of more of it. With the Sun Belt and C-USA bringing up five more I-AA schools everyone else is going to lose an additional $100,000. Bring up ten more and it's going to cost everyone else $300,000 a year.

Bottom line here is we're not going to get an increased share of the pie collectively. The reality is the opposite because we're adding more mouth's to feed. It would behoove both the Sun Belt and C-USA to say screw it if either conference loses anymore. The more schools we bring up the more we're reducing our own financial well-being. So, again we're dealing in thousands of dollars (and subtracting revenue by adding more schools) while the big five are dealing in millions and adding to their net worth. I don't care if I'm in a conference with only seven other schools. We have to stop this nonsense of bringing up I-AA's unless they will unquestionably add monetary (i.e. TV) value to our conferences.

Whats ultimately in CUSA's interest is to just merge with the Belt if the MWC raids them. And that would stop the greatest risk to CUSA, which is that a Sun Belt conference risks not only the Belt's position but CUSA's and the MACs by taking too many FCS moveups. Something to think about.

FWIW, I believe both leagues have already made mistakes that are going to cost all of us financially.

Instead of adding the schools C-USA did they should have just merged the two leagues then under C-USA's name. I think it's too late now. Would have been an 18-team conference sans La Tech. Maybe could have added Tech and ODU or Charlotte to the equation for a 20-team conference.

We've already added five schools to I-A/FBS/whatever you want to call it. Now that we're already on this path there's probably going to be another five to six added before it's all said and done. Wrong approach IMO.

(12-09-2012 02:23 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  Lurker Above’s Plan to Expand the Sun Belt Conference

The SBC will be at a measly 8 schools in a year, and with the possibility of further schools leaving, the SBC needs to expand greatly to preserve a healthy conference membership, have a championship game (and likely a championship semifinals in the near future), expand to new markets, and most important of all, add teams that can schedule games against quality opponents and beat them. While the other conferences are expanding by bringing in schools that are located in good markets, the SBC needs to bring in schools that can win football games. The schools I believe the SBC should add are mostly FCS schools, but they are winners and will explode once they get to the FBS level. Worrying about the FCS stigma is extremely short sited, and a little hypocritical, since a majority of SBC schools themselves were FCS (Division II) only a few years ago.

I believe the Sun Belt should increase in size dramatically, at least to 16, but ideally 20, because that is where conferences are headed. The B1G and SEC will be at 20 soon enough and the SBC should match them in size. 20 programs allows for a greater saturation of the State of Texas and gets the SBC into NC and VA. Additionally, a conference champion that is the best of 20 teams, especially when conference semi finals are allowed, would have a greater strength of schedule to help it get a higher ranking and earn the 6th BCS Bowl slot, as well as additional bowls for other SBC teams. Most importantly, if more SBC teams are taking bowl slots then that is fewer slots for teams in the other Group of Five conferences; therefore, the SBC rises and the other Gof5 conferences fall. It would be wise to get as much of the market in quality football programs into the SBC as possible so the SBC would have more of the good teams playing in bowls being conference mates. Let the other Gof5 conferences choke on their large markets and weak strength of schedules.

What the Sun Belt Conference needs most of all is strong football schools, whereever they can be found, and it just so happens these schools can be found in the FCS. I understand some of the Sun Belt schools are concerned about bringing in too many FCS schools because they are afraid the SBC will be seen as a FCS conference. I understand that; however, that stigma will fade in a few years as these schools start winning games against teams in other conferences. The SBC should only be thinking about increasing the conference’s strength, and it is extremely unwise for it to be worrying about anything else.

This plan is also a long term investment in capturing as many 6th BCS Bowls, and as many other bowls, as possible. Gaining markets or sharing markets with current schools should be of little concern to the Sun Belt Conference. The truth is none of these schools truly deliver their markets on their own, and the same is true for all current members and those already invited. Georgia State will not bring the Atlanta market any more the Tulane will bring the New Orleans’ market to the Big East. The way forward for the SBC is to increase its marketability through conference strength. If teams in the Sun Belt win, people will watch. If people are watching, the SBC teams are making money. It is that simple. Win and get paid; it will not matter what side of the tracks you came from.

These proposed additions would maintain the tight geographic fit the Sun Belt enjoys but expand it over most of the south by bringing in the best FCS schools in the nation that is not in the upper northwest or northeast. Close regional rivalries make for greater fan interest and having this many teams throughout the south would make it easier to market the conference to regional sports channels. Since very few SBC games are going to be broadcast nationally, the SBC needs to focus on regional interests and expanding that region as far as possible while maintaining the highest level of fan interest possible. The best ways to do that is bring in schools that are quality football programs, are already rivals with each other and are in close proximity to existing members to create new, intense rivalries. The positives of such additions outweigh any perceived negatives concerning turf invasion. Close rivalries are the most intense rivalries. Ask Alabama and Auburn fans, or fans of USC and UCLA, etc.

THE PLAN

First, invite Georgia Southern, Appalachian State, and Chattanooga from the Southern Conference. The Eagles and the Mountaineers provide instant football strength and are no brainers. The Moccasins are a quality football program with good sports infrastructure. Inviting Chattanooga gets the Sun Belt back into the State of Tennessee and provides a bridge to the other additions. This gets you to 11 schools.

Second, invite James Madison from the Colonial Athletic Association to provide more football strength. Invite them now before the Mid-American does. Now the SBC is at 12.

Third, invite the Richmond Spiders to get a second team in the State of Virginia. The Spiders are rivals of James Madison. Then invite Murray State from the Ohio Valley Conference. These two teams will give the Sun Belt a much needed boast in basketball, which would help bring in NCAA basketball tournament money, and both are quality football programs. The Sun Belt is now at 14.

Fourth, invite Lamar, Sam Houston and Stephen F. Austin from the Southland Conference. This gets the SBC to 17.

Fifth, invite New Mexico State from the WAC. NMS is the only current FBS School in this expansion proposal and NMS’s invite may be contingent on the SBC getting more schools in Texas in order to maintain the desired close geographic fit. The SBC is now at 18.

Sixth, invite Jacksonville State and Eastern Kentucky from the Ohio Valley Conference. These are quality football programs that their in-state rivals will love to hate. Now the SBC is at 20.

This should get the Sun Belt Conference to 20, though some schools might need a couple of years to get ready. During this time period the B1G and the SEC will most likely have moved to at least 16; therefore, the NCAA will probably have changed its rules to allow subdivisions and conference championships.

Why 20 and not 16? All 12 of these additions make the conference stronger, and again, since there is no large TV contract there should not be any “more mouths to feed” arguments. This conference needs more teams in a nice expanded region so more people will be interested in the Sun Belt Conference throughout the South. The SBC conference also needs schools that will win long term. These schools do that.

WEST
Western Division
UT-Arlington
Sam Houston
Stephen F. Austin
New Mexico State
Lamar

Central Division
Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana-Monroe
Arkansas State
Western Kentucky
Murray State

EAST
Southern Division
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
Jacksonville State
Troy
South Alabama

Northern Division
Appalachian State
Chattanooga
Eastern Kentucky
James Madison
Richmond

If Western Kentucky leaves the SBC then Coastal Carolina should be invited and placed in the Southern Division, which would cause South Alabama to move to the WEST into the Central Division. McNeese State would be next in line.

That is the plan. I know many of these schools may not impress many of you, but they will compete and win long term. That is what is important.

Lurker Above

That's a rational plan however I'm not sure you need to go all the way to 20 and several of those schools have expressed no interest whatsoever in taking the step up. Several of those schools could simply not afford the move up. Eastern KY and Murray St. are two that come to mind. You make a good point in regards to market share being way over rated. Rutgers gets picked up by the Big 12 for the NY market, however how many are going to actually watch Rutgers play? Univ of Cinci is in a great market, but they can't get over 25,000 to a game. I have a question for you though? Why is Liberty University not included in your list? Probably one of the top 3 schools as far as being ready for the jump in all facets.

Tom I know your answer already,

Quote: Why is Liberty University not included in your list?

I was wondering that myself. OP makes a SunBelt out of every team who ever thought of moving up and forgets Liberty.
Despite my original objections, i'm opening up to the thought of Liberty. the willy-nilly adds to make 20 i'm not so sure of.

The largest i'd go is 18 basketball schools. (which I believe would make 16 football schools with UTA and UALR sitting out.) but my plan would look differently.

(12-09-2012 02:57 PM)Blueraidersig Wrote:  Why not just go play FCS football...well thought out but an awful idea. I would want nothing to do with that conference.

You wouldn't have anything to do with it!

(12-09-2012 04:25 PM)RaiderATO Wrote:  

(12-09-2012 02:57 PM)Blueraidersig Wrote:  Why not just go play FCS football...well thought out but an awful idea. I would want nothing to do with that conference.

You wouldn't have anything to do with it!

Im aware, and for that I'm thankful.

Alfred Hitchcock couldn't have written a better script.

Richmond now plays in an 8,700 seat stadium. They are very happy playing basketball in the A10 and Football in the CAA. They will never move up.

It was good until I got to the "North Division"

Northern Division
Appalachian State (YES)
Chattanooga (Not Going FBS)
Eastern Kentucky (Probably not ready for FBS but not a bad team)
James Madison (YES)
Richmond (NO)

Chattanooga? Are we just throwing out the NCAA FBS attendance requirements?

We played at their Homecoming this year and we easily made up about 40% of the 8-9,000 attendance, and this was a good season for them.

Looks like UTC is having financial struggles with a growing budget deficit.

http://www.utc.edu/Administration/Busine...tation.pdf

You must not forget the potential of North Florida and Florida Gulf Coast adding football programs. UNF is in Jacksonville, Florida and FGCU is in Ft. Myers. There was some discussion on the board about Missouri State and there is the possibility that UT Arlington might restart football.

(12-10-2012 11:57 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  You must not forget the potential of North Florida and Florida Gulf Coast adding football programs. UNF is in Jacksonville, Florida and FGCU is in Ft. Myers. There was some discussion on the board about Missouri State and there is the possibility that UT Arlington might restart football.

UTA is years from bringing their FB program back . . .

Both FBS and FCS are Division I College Football. Division II and Division III are two even lower levels, with even fewer, if any scholarship players.
Spin it however you want, FCS is Division I football. Not the highest level? Sure. Division II? No. Facts are facts. Sorry.

(12-10-2012 11:57 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  You must not forget the potential of North Florida and Florida Gulf Coast adding football programs. UNF is in Jacksonville, Florida and FGCU is in Ft. Myers. There was some discussion on the board about Missouri State and there is the possibility that UT Arlington might restart football.

I was about to say the same thing. The first thing I noticed was that this plan left out the state of Florida, which is a bad idea given the caliber of Florida athletes, the population of the state, and the potential benefits the Sun Belt would reap from maintaining a presence here. I've heard nothing about a UNF football program, however, and while UWF is introducing football, it will be Division II (for at least 10 years according to the president of the university).

This is a well thought out plan, and while I'm skeptical about many of the schools listed AND the idea of a 20 team conference (they'll never do it) I would definitely like to see some of those teams in the new Sun Belt. Namely:

Sam Houston
Lamar
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State

Jacksonville State is tempting as a TROY fan but I think it'd weaken the conference, as would many of these other FCS teams. Also, I'm divided about New Mexico State. It is an FBS team and in the geographic Sun Belt, but it's a small state and travel costs would be very high for most of the Belt.

(12-10-2012 11:57 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  You must not forget the potential of North Florida and Florida Gulf Coast adding football programs. UNF is in Jacksonville, Florida and FGCU is in Ft. Myers. There was some discussion on the board about Missouri State and there is the possibility that UT Arlington might restart football.

Still selling that merchandise eh?