Glorified community college. No campus. Terrible Sports. End of story.

Can someone give the new Sunbelt whipping boy a clue?

I was just going to ask that this thread get moved. Thank you, whoever took the initiative.

(05-10-2012 12:32 PM)CamelCityAppFan Wrote:  

(05-10-2012 11:18 AM)SaintDK10 Wrote:  Actually, the question is very relevant. We went 6-5 in our first year, while you went 3-6. One of our losses was to the defending national FBS champion, so I'm trying to give you are bone here: is one of your SIX 1st year losses to a defending national champion, or were they all to NAIA, D2, JUCO teams, etc.?

No, the way you have positioned this is not only totally irrelevant, it's totally disingenious as well.

The "first season" you are referring to, the 6-5 season in 2010, was coached by Bill Curry, a professional football coach with coaching jobs at Ga Tech, Alabama and Kentucky on his resume. He was hired 4 years prior to help launch the football team.

Is someone who hasn't coached in 14 years a "professional football coach"?

In any event, you didn't have a winning record in your first two years in the Southern conference either - after you had been playing for over 40 years. The point is, it takes time. To pretend that we will not get there given our advantages is just foolish.

(05-10-2012 12:34 PM)DrGonzo Wrote:  Glorified community college. No campus. Terrible Sports. End of story.

Can someone give the new Sunbelt whipping boy a clue?

Are you having a bad day man? What's the probelm? Wow.


Just 15 more days of this insanity.

(05-10-2012 12:34 PM)DrGonzo Wrote:  Glorified community college. No campus. Terrible Sports. End of story.

Can someone give the new Sunbelt whipping boy a clue?

Weird for someone who hasn't even gotten an invite yet.

In any event, looking at history, we have very good clues of how this will play out:
GSU is like UCF and USF (large city, urban schools) - we will grow, get better, and move on.

ApSt is more like pre-FBS ULM (good rural program that won its conference multiple times, won a 1-AA national championship, etc.) - you will stagnate and remain at the bottom of the barrel with no hope of moving up.

(05-10-2012 12:32 PM)CamelCityAppFan Wrote:  

(05-10-2012 11:18 AM)SaintDK10 Wrote:  Actually, the question is very relevant. We went 6-5 in our first year, while you went 3-6. One of our losses was to the defending national FBS champion, so I'm trying to give you are bone here: is one of your SIX 1st year losses to a defending national champion, or were they all to NAIA, D2, JUCO teams, etc.?

No, the way you have positioned this is not only totally irrelevant, it's totally disingenious as well.

The "first season" you are referring to, the 6-5 season in 2010, was coached by Bill Curry, a professional football coach with coaching jobs at Ga Tech, Alabama and Kentucky on his resume. He was hired 4 years prior to help launch the football team.

Appalachian's first head coach, in the 3-6 1928 season, was Graydon Eggers, an English professor at Appalachian. The 1928 season was his only season coaching.

Not really the same thing, is it?

BTW, Appalachian has won 538 games (out of 873) since that first season.

Ohhh, I see. So comparing a program that has played only 2 years of organized football with the one that's been playing since 1928 is okay as long as we don't compare the first two years. Brilliant!

My God, this App State education is top notch! These people must be cranking out lawyers and doctors by the thousands. The critical thinking is impeccable. Bravo Mountaineers! Bravo!

(05-10-2012 12:34 PM)DrGonzo Wrote:  Glorified community college. No campus. Terrible Sports. End of story.

Can someone give the new Sunbelt whipping boy a clue?

LOL, yeah, glorified community college with almost three times the endowment of App State, athletic budget of $23 million and growing, produced more Fortune 500 CEO's in Atlanta than any school in the world, more nationally ranked academic programs than App State has programs, actually won a game in the NCAA Tournament, actually won a baseball title in the last decade, produced 2 NFL players in two seasons of football program's existence, cover of ESPN the Magazine, moved to FBS in 2 years while App State couldn't do it in NINE decades -- yeah, glorified indeed, LMAO!

But hey, TRACK AND FIELD BABY!!!!

Does anyone else love the name Graydon Eggers?

(05-10-2012 10:12 AM)SaintDK10 Wrote:  I'll even let slide that you listed winning the north division in basketball as a "conference title," although I did get a good chuckle out of that one. I will even let slide that you fudged on the RPI numbers: GSU's high for your selected time period is 136, not 140; and App State's high is 62, not 59.

But unfortunately, what I just can't let slide is my questions being unanswered and they were:

Has App State won the SoCon baseball title recently?
Where would App State rank in basketball RPI last year?
Has App State beaten a Final 4 team recently?
Has the App State basketball team recently won a game in the NCAA tournament? Ever?
Has App State ever finished with an RPI in the 30s? 40s? 50s?
Did you play the defending national champion like we did our first year [of football]?

Again, very simple questions, and very simple answers. No need to give me a selective time period RPI average for basketball and baseball. Heck, you go back 6 years from your time period, and GSU's basketball average is 145 with a high of 32; App State's is 225 with a high of 161. By golly, during that time period, your HIGH RPI is still lower than our AVERAGE, LOL! But look, that's not what my questions address. I want you to tell me your all-time accomplishments in basketball and baseball. NIT tournament? CIT? Good for you. We were in the NIT and CIT in the last 10 years. But how have you done in the NCAA Tournament? Your team has good baseball RPI? Awesome! Have you won a conference title recently. Has your basketball team showed it can bring revenue to the Sun Belt in the NCAA Tournament?

Again, simple questions -- simple answers. I eagerly await your exact answers and try not to fudge numbers and meaning of "conference title" this time. It makes you much more credible when you don't do that.

Dude I'm not trying to pick a fight you set the parameters at 6 years not me. I'm only reporting the facts as found on credible websites, all SoCon championship information was pulled from http://www.soconsports.com if you'd like to check it.

Based upon rpi at http://www.collegerpi.com those are the averages and highs for each team, check it out if you'd like. Now that you don't like the results you'd like to change the parameter I understand why, but it makes you look foolish as the most recent years would clearly be the most relevant.

As for your other questoins:
Has App State won the SoCon baseball title recently? - no but they play in a more highly ranked baseball conference and have won 30+ games for the fifth straight year, likely 40 this year as they sit on top of the SoCon with an RPI of 32, ranked 28th in the nation last week, and will receive at minimum an at-large spot in the NCAAs. I'll go back to App's average RPI for last 6 years (your parameter not mine) in which App is much higher than GA St.

Where would App State rank in basketball RPI last year? - not very well, it was a mess last year (I have no problems stating when ASU underperforms), but again I'll point the average RPI for the last 6 years which is once again higher than GA St.'s

Has App State beaten a Final 4 team recently? - nope, but we beat Davidson regularly, I believe they have a 5 game advantage over in the 60+ game all-time history, not too bad.

Has the App State basketball team recently won a game in the NCAA tournament? Ever? Nope, got us there

Has App State ever finished with an RPI in the 30s? 40s? 50s? - yep 59 per http://www.collegerpi.com within the 6 year parameter you set

Did you play the defending national champion like we did our first year [of football]? - nope but we did BEAT one of the pre-season favorites in 2007, let's not pretend your schedule is full of FBS programs though, we have also never lost to Lambath

Sorry you don't respect track and field championships, based upon your original question I wasn't aware those didn't count towards the total.

Flame away DK - the numbers on the field back up that App does have a very solid overall athletic program. You guys have the ATL location that is why you were picked over other schools, I hope we can agree on that at a minimum.

Congrats I hope your leadership can put you guys in position to improve on the field now that you are associated with FBS programs. I hope App joins you guys soon.

DK, panama, or any other knowledgable GA St. fan could you let me know what your 2011 athletic scholarship donations were? I ask this as it will be interesting to track how much that figure increases in 2012 with the Sun Belt announcement. I'd like to use that data to support the estimated increase in donations App could see if we were to miss out this year on the realignment but consider it for future years. It would likely be a large percentage increase that could help ease fans increased expense concerns at the FBS level. Thanks in advance.

(05-10-2012 04:28 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Dude I'm not trying to pick a fight you set the parameters at 6 years not me. I'm only reporting the facts as found on credible websites, all SoCon championship information was pulled from http://www.soconsports.com if you'd like to check it.

Based upon rpi at http://www.collegerpi.com those are the averages and highs for each team, check it out if you'd like. Now that you don't like the results you'd like to change the parameter I understand why, but it makes you look foolish as the most recent years would clearly be the most relevant.

As for your other questoins:
Has App State won the SoCon baseball title recently? - no but they play in a more highly ranked baseball conference and have won 30+ games for the fifth straight year, likely 40 this year as they sit on top of the SoCon with an RPI of 32, ranked 28th in the nation last week, and will receive at minimum an at-large spot in the NCAAs. I'll go back to App's average RPI for last 6 years (your parameter not mine) in which App is much higher than GA St.

Where would App State rank in basketball RPI last year? - not very well, it was a mess last year (I have no problems stating when ASU underperforms), but again I'll point the average RPI for the last 6 years which is once again higher than GA St.'s

Has App State beaten a Final 4 team recently? - nope, but we beat Davidson regularly, I believe they have a 5 game advantage over in the 60+ game all-time history, not too bad.

Has the App State basketball team recently won a game in the NCAA tournament? Ever? Nope, got us there

Has App State ever finished with an RPI in the 30s? 40s? 50s? - yep 59 per http://www.collegerpi.com within the 6 year parameter you set

Did you play the defending national champion like we did our first year [of football]? - nope but we did BEAT one of the pre-season favorites in 2007, let's not pretend your schedule is full of FBS programs though, we have also never lost to Lambath

Sorry you don't respect track and field championships, based upon your original question I wasn't aware those didn't count towards the total.

Flame away DK - the numbers on the field back up that App does have a very solid overall athletic program. You guys have the ATL location that is why you were picked over other schools, I hope we can agree on that at a minimum.

Congrats I hope your leadership can put you guys in position to improve on the field now that you are associated with FBS programs. I hope App joins you guys soon.

Look, you seem like a nice guy, but you'll quickly learn with me that I don't let BS slide. The "parameters" of the conversation were as simple as they can get: answer my questions. The 6-year period was only there because that's how long we've been in the CAA and I didn't want to mix those championships with A-Sun title, which we had many more of.

The fact of the matter is, now that you are answered my questions, the facts are clear:

- You've haven't won a baseball conference title in nearly 3 decades.
- Your basketball team would rank next to last in Sun Belt last year.
- You haven't beat an Final 4 caliber team.
- You never won a single game in the NCAA Tournament.
- You haven't so much as sniffed an RPI as good as 32.
- Your first year football season schedule doesn't even come close to ours.

Yet here you are, talking about GSU's "historical performance," where we have done all those things, and much more. Heck our women's track and field team had almost as many championships in one year as you did in that 6 year span.

So please, post away about App State all you want, just don't get all "Dude, I'm not trying to start a fight" on me when I lay out the clear picture of who GSU is and how we compare to App State.

End of story.

You cherry pick questions while I lay out a VERY clear picture to compare the two programs over a reasonable amount of time. I'll let the readers decide who's data is more indicative of the overall state of our respective schools.

Please don't try to post anything comparing App and GA St.'s football that is a complete waste of time.

I answered your questions, how about answering mine:

How did your women's track and field teams have move than 29 championships in 6 years? The max would be 18, 3 X 6 for those scoring at home. If you'd like to compare a longer span of data that is fine (i'm not sure it is as relevant but to each his own).

What was GA St. athletic scholarship donations for 2011?

(05-11-2012 12:31 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  You cherry pick questions while I lay out a VERY clear picture to compare the two programs over a reasonable amount of time. I'll let the readers decide who's data is more indicative of the overall state of our respective schools.

Please don't try to post anything comparing App and GA St.'s football that is a complete waste of time.

I answered your questions, how about answering mine:

How did your women's track and field teams have move than 29 championships in 6 years? The max would be 18, 3 X 6 for those scoring at home. If you'd like to compare a longer span of data that is fine (i'm not sure it is as relevant but to each his own).

What was GA St. athletic scholarship donations for 2011?

Did I not just post that I don't let BS slide? And right after, you follow with a post in which you state that giving an RPI average of 6 years is a "clear picture" while baseball conference titles, basketball NCAA tournament performances, all-time RPI highs and historical opponents is "cherry picking."

LOL, seriously guy, in no dimension other than your world is historical data and performances "cherry picking." The problem is that you don't like the answers to those questions because when you answer them, the picture of App State becomes clear as it gets, especially compared to GSU.

Anyway, now to answer your questions.

Quote:How did your women's track and field teams have move than 29 championships in 6 years? The max would be 18, 3 X 6 for those scoring at home. If you'd like to compare a longer span of data that is fine (i'm not sure it is as relevant but to each his own).

I'm talking about your track and field championships. You had 13 track and field championships in 6 years, and last year alone our women's team racked up a total of 10, which is very close to 13 in your 6-year span. Now maybe you didn't include individual track and field championships in those 13, so the number could be higher, but my comparison was apples-to-apples: track and field titles vs. track and field titles.

Quote:What was GA St. athletic scholarship donations for 2011?

I'm not sure what "athletic scholarship donations" means, but at GSU we have two types of private donations:

1. Restricted - funds go to a specific area of athletics (e.g. particular sport, project, fund, etc.)
2. Unrestricted - funds can go anywhere the athletic department deems the area of need is at that time or in the future.

The unrestricted donations for 2011 were about $3.2 million and I do not know what the restricted amount was, but I'd imagine it was pretty sizable since we had at least one $1 million donor that contributed toward the new football S&C complex.

Panama, do you have any more info on this?

It wasn't apples to apples only TEAM championships count, if we did individual championships App would have over 100 in the last six years easily. The ones I used were team championships.

Cherry picking would be selecting one game or one season where I have been comparing a larger body of work for each sport. DK I'll let you pick the span of years you'd like to compare App to in basketball and baseball RPI and the data will show that App is on average better. You guys had one good year over a decade ago, but more often than not your RPI in basketball is above 200. App is like a yo-yo (very frustrating) in that every other year or every three years they are decent. Baseball we are clearly higher since Pollard took over in 2004.

As for the donations, every university has an athletic donors club in which the primary purpose of the club is to raise money for athletic scholarships or a general fund for athletics. App's in the Yosef Club, NCSU's is the Wolfpack Club, S. Car.'s in the Gamecock Club, etc..

Typcially donations to facilities would not be included in the totals for those clubs as they would be counted toward the capital contribution program going on at that time.

(05-11-2012 04:37 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  It wasn't apples to apples only TEAM championships count, if we did individual championships App would have over 100 in the last six years easily. The ones I used were team championships.

Cherry picking would be selecting one game or one season where I have been comparing a larger body of work for each sport. DK I'll let you pick the span of years you'd like to compare App to in basketball and baseball RPI and the data will show that App is on average better. You guys had one good year over a decade ago, but more often than not your RPI in basketball is above 200. App is like a yo-yo (very frustrating) in that every other year or every three years they are decent. Baseball we are clearly higher since Pollard took over in 2004.

As for the donations, every university has an athletic donors club in which the primary purpose of the club is to raise money for athletic scholarships or a general fund for athletics. App's in the Yosef Club, NCSU's is the Wolfpack Club, S. Car.'s in the Gamecock Club, etc..

Typcially donations to facilities would not be included in the totals for those clubs as they would be counted toward the capital contribution program going on at that time.

LOL, this is just getting sad now. You went from slinging complete BS to literally contradicting yourself from one paragraph to the next.

So let me get this straight, and so that the entire message board can fully wrap their collective heads around it as well:

According to Saint3333, conference championships are only important if you're talking about track and field, but if we're discussing basketball or baseball, conference championships should not be looked at, only the rolling RPI average between 2006 and 2012.

Brilliant!! LMAO!!!

I mean, that is absolutely fantastic. That is of course, in no way cherry picking, but a full and "complete picture" of App state athletics.

I seriously couldn't even make this up if I tried and I'm glad it's here for everyone on this board to witness.

But okay, look, you want to go back further on basketball RPI? You claim that GSU only had one good year, that our basketball RPI is mainly in the 200s and that if we go back further, we will see that App. State's average RPI will be better.

Alright, let's do it. Let's go back to 6 more years, to the turn of the century, and see how App. State stacks up with GSU, and we'll even use your collegerpi.com instead of statsheet.com or Warren Nolan's RPI site.

Here are the numbers:

YEAR GSU APP
11-12 140 258
10-11 223 195
09-10 248 101
08-09 233 249
07-08 221 154
06-07 232 59
05-06 244 235
04-05 160 180
03-04 113 248
02-03 218 162
01-02 94 264
00-01 32 264
AVG: 179 197

LOL, not even close. In fact, if you go from 2000 to 2006, GSU had an average RPI of 143 while App States' was 225. Not. Even. In. The. Same. Dimension.

And during that time we got to the Round of 32 in the NCAA tournament, while App State didn't even so much as sniff the NCAA Tournament.

So guy, please, just quit while you're behind, because your credibility is not only non-existent at this point, it's in negative right now.

I've seen some people BS and contradict themselves before, but you take the cake.

Oh and thank you for explaining to me what an athletics donors club is, LOL. GSU's is called the PAC, and we raised $3.2. million in non-restricted donations last year, which was good to be at the top of the CAA. And that was in addition to millions of dollars raised for specific projects and facilities. You keep good track of us, because those numbers are about to go up drastically now that we're FBS. Just spare us of your BS and rolling average RPI theories. Your baseball team hasn't won a conference title in almost 3 decades and your basketball team hasn't done jack in the NCAA Tournament in its entire history, and even your mighty RPI doesn't come close to GSU's.

Next time you decide to chime in on GSU's "historical performance," do a little research. That way you won't have to trip all over yourself and look like a complete dumb@$$.

Keep posting you're good for a laugh. Our RPI over the last 6 years is 60 spots higher, we aren't close, that I can agree with.

You lost crediblity when you bolded that section and claimed that is what I posted (I guess it is easy to debate someone when you make crap up) then went on to claim the period 2000-2006 is more relevant than the period between 2007-2012 (again App was 60 spots higher), that is rich. You guys did edge us out over the 2000-2012 period so that is the first time you've been able to prove you were better than App at any sport over a period of time. I look forward to seeing more data to support others.

Do you have a link for that 3.2M number, seems like something you guys would have a story about?

(05-12-2012 09:00 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Keep posting you're good for a laugh. Our RPI over the last 6 years is 60 spots higher, we aren't close, that I can agree with.

You lost crediblity when you bolded that section and claimed that is what I posted (I guess it is easy to debate someone when you make crap up) then went on to claim the period 2000-2006 is more relevant than the period between 2007-2012 (again App was 60 spots higher), that is rich. You guys did edge us out over the 2000-2012 period so that is the first time you've been able to prove you were better than App at any sport over a period of time. I look forward to seeing more data to support others.

Do you have a link for that 3.2M number, seems like something you guys would have a story about?

LOL, you talking about my credibility is beyond comical at this point.

Did you or did you not say that my questions about baseball conference titles and basketball NCAA tournament appearances was "cherry picking?"

Did you or did you not then give your baseball and basketball team's 6-year RPI averages as a "clear picture" of your basketball and baseball programs?

And did you or did you not then post about your track and field CONFERENCE TITLES as indication of how good they are?!



Yeah, thought so. You are nothing more than a self-contradicting backpadler, who got exposed for every single BS attempt to finagle, and that bolded part was exactly on point, no matter how you try to spin it.

Anyway, the $3.2 million dollar figure is published in the PAC brochure that is given to the PAC members who donate money to the club. We don't publicize or talk about our funding. We just do it. Just like one day you woke up and found out that GSU has been accepted to the Sun Belt. We don't need to broadcast anything to the outside world -- we just do what needs to be done behind the scenes, and you (the general public) know about it when it happens. And the plans we have for the next 5 years are nothing short of glorious. Like I said, keep up with us, and see how a brand new program did in 2 years what your school couldn't do over 80 years.

There is no RPI data for those other sports to use if there were I would use it as it would be apples to apples.

With such a large donation amount how come only 12% of GA St.'s budget is externally generated?

(05-13-2012 12:57 PM)SaintDK10 Wrote:  

(05-12-2012 09:00 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Keep posting you're good for a laugh. Our RPI over the last 6 years is 60 spots higher, we aren't close, that I can agree with.

You lost crediblity when you bolded that section and claimed that is what I posted (I guess it is easy to debate someone when you make crap up) then went on to claim the period 2000-2006 is more relevant than the period between 2007-2012 (again App was 60 spots higher), that is rich. You guys did edge us out over the 2000-2012 period so that is the first time you've been able to prove you were better than App at any sport over a period of time. I look forward to seeing more data to support others.

Do you have a link for that 3.2M number, seems like something you guys would have a story about?

LOL, you talking about my credibility is beyond comical at this point.

Did you or did you not say that my questions about baseball conference titles and basketball NCAA tournament appearances was "cherry picking?"

Did you or did you not then give your baseball and basketball team's 6-year RPI averages as a "clear picture" of your basketball and baseball programs?

And did you or did you not then post about your track and field CONFERENCE TITLES as indication of how good they are?!



Yeah, thought so. You are nothing more than a self-contradicting backpadler, who got exposed for every single BS attempt to finagle, and that bolded part was exactly on point, no matter how you try to spin it.

Anyway, the $3.2 million dollar figure is published in the PAC brochure that is given to the PAC members who donate money to the club. We don't publicize or talk about our funding. We just do it. Just like one day you woke up and found out that GSU has been accepted to the Sun Belt. We don't need to broadcast anything to the outside world -- we just do what needs to be done behind the scenes, and you (the general public) know about it when it happens. And the plans we have for the next 5 years are nothing short of glorious. Like I said, keep up with us, and see how a brand new program did in 2 years what your school couldn't do over 80 years.

What did you do in 2 years? Be located in a major city? Congrats on your achievement of location!!

(05-13-2012 08:26 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  There is no RPI data for those other sports to use if there were I would use it as it would be apples to apples.

With such a large donation amount how come only 12% of GA St.'s budget is externally generated?

LOL, so I ask about your conference championships, and the apple-to-apple comparison is RPI.

I swear, I have never seen anything like this on a message board before. You are without a doubt the most royaly full-of-BS poster ever to use a keyboard. Pretty impressive.

Anyway, I don't know where the 12% is coming from, unless you're quoting some old data or articles. We jumped by over a million from 2010 to 2011 in non-restricted donations. Heck, in 2009, I think might have been less than a million. $3.2 million was the amount for 2011 non-restricted private donations. It should be even bigger this year.