TopCoog Wrote:Some people just go nuts if anyone happens to disagree with them. there is psychological help avilable for that kind of emotional problem. Fact is, realignment is not an issue at this time and every frickin one of you know it. Pointing that out is not out of line. How long to we have to read this crap? Over & over & over & over & over & over again, and then we hear it some more. Just mindless , clueless posts with absolutly zero basis in fact.

This is a quote from the November 6th, 2003 Cincinnati article on <a href='http://www.enquirer.com/bearcats/2003/11/06/bigeastfolo06.html' target='_blank'>UC and the Big East</a>

"I was on vacation in Maryland when I received a call from Jake Crouthamel," Goin said. "He asked me if I cared whether they stuck together or split (into two separate leagues).That meant they wanted my opinion. That pretty much told me we were in."


And now, before you make an idiot of yourself and say "well Mike Tranghese said there wasn't any talk of expansion and I'll believe him over you", here's another quote from that article:

Goin sent a document to all Big East presidents and athletic directors extolling the virtues of UC and asking them to take a look. He didn't directly talk to Big East commissioner Mike Tranghese but worked behind the scenes with Connecticut athletic director Jeff Hathaway, West Virginia athletic director Ed Pastilong and Syracuse athletic director Jake Crouthamel.


Notice that Bob Goin worked with and negotiated with Big East presidents and ADs, mainly the football schools and NOT Mike Tranghese and really not the b-ball schools. There's a reason for that. And if you think anything has changed in one year you're fooling yourself. And if you have a problem with our posts I have some advice, don't read this message board. Last I checked this is a Big East message board and we can talk about whatever we want. You're not even a Big East fan so stop b*tching and moaning.

Akron, Buffalo, Temple, and Toledo for all sports.

Big East 2011

[U]Eastern Division
Buffalo
Connecticut
Rutgers
South Florida
Syracuse
Temple

[U]Western Division
Akron
Cincinnati
Louisville
Pittsburgh
Toledo
West Virginia

There have been rumors circulating on the bigeast.org board that the BE football schools might be absorbed by the ACC and SEC, thus eliminating the Big East auto-bid, which the ACC and SEC would have a very good chance of securing an extra open bid in any given year.

One of the proposed alignments would look like this:

ACC North
Boston College
Cincinnati
Connecticut
Maryland
Pitt
Rutgers
Syracuse
Virginia
Virginia Tech

ACC Southern Division
Clemson
Duke
Ga Tech
Fl State
Miami FL
N Carolina
NC State
South Florida
Wake

SEC East Division
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
South Carolina
Tenn
Vandy
West Virginia

SEC West Division
Alabama
Arkansas
Auburn
LSU
Louisville
Miss
Miss St

Why would the ACC want this? Why would the all sports schools agree to this?

Well, apparently the ACC is still maneuvering to strip the Big East's auto bid. This deal would be offered to the all sports schools as a way to save themselves. Take the deal and be in the BCS. Turn down the deal and take your chances.

Would the all sports schools take this deal?

Bearcat 1984 Wrote:There have been rumors circulating on the bigeast.org board that the BE football schools might be absorbed by the ACC and SEC, thus eliminating the Big East auto-bid, which the ACC and SEC would have a very good chance of securing an extra open bid in any given year.

One of the proposed alignments would look like this:

ACC North
Boston College
Cincinnati
Connecticut
Maryland
Pitt
Rutgers
Syracuse
Virginia
Virginia Tech

ACC Southern Division
Clemson
Duke
Ga Tech
Fl State
Miami FL
N Carolina
NC State
South Florida
Wake

SEC East Division
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
South Carolina
Tenn
Vandy
West Virginia

SEC West Division
Alabama
Arkansas
Auburn
LSU
Louisville
Miss
Miss St

Why would the ACC want this? Why would the all sports schools agree to this?

Well, apparently the ACC is still maneuvering to strip the Big East's auto bid. This deal would be offered to the all sports schools as a way to save themselves. Take the deal and be in the BCS. Turn down the deal and take your chances.

Would the all sports schools take this deal?

No way in hell the ACC takes Cincy or South Florida simply because of academics. Academics (along with media market) was the biggest reason West Virginia wasn't involved in expansion the first time around.

Besides, the ACC and SEC have nothing to gain from your idea except more mouths to feed. Conferences that big would cause longtime rivals to miss out on playing simply because of division size.

Any rumor you see involving the ACC or SEC expanding past 12 is pure balogna. It simply ain't gonna happen.

I don't believe the ACC is actively doing anything to try and strip the Big East of their bid either. That would give the Big East lawsuit some merit and with the addition of the 5th BCS Bowl game, the ACC is almost guaranteed a second team in the BCS every year anyways.

Quote:Two problems with that...#1 we aready have a school south of Louisvile....

Then I don't want anymore schools south of Louisville (no offense Bulls).

Quote:there really isn't any more schools left to add in the NE....

10 years ago UConn was non-existent (to me at least). I don't have any attendance records or football records in front of me, but I'm willing to bet UConn wasn't heads and shoulders ahead of UMass back in the 1-AA days. I think the Big East should actively pursue a Delaware or Umass or Fordham or whoever, because none of these schools will make the commitment without a commitment from the Big East in return, and I'd rather have one of these schools than some geographical outlier (one without the benefits of being in Florida).

Regarding UConn when they were in I-AA, football-wise they were one of the weak members of the A-10. Delaware and UMass had much better attendence than did UConn. To be honest, UConn was way down the list in the conference in terms of support. They were also generally a football doormat, although they did have a few decent years. The way they moved to I-A was that they got a huge infusion of cash from the state of CT.

Somebody who was more aware of the college football landscape a decade or so ago could probably field this one for me... did UConn always have aspirations of going 1-A? Or did the commitment/state money come after the Big East had invited them in for football?

catdaddy_2402 Wrote:No way in hell the ACC takes Cincy or South Florida simply because of academics. Academics (along with media market) was the biggest reason West Virginia wasn't involved in expansion the first time around.

Besides, the ACC and SEC have nothing to gain from your idea except more mouths to feed. Conferences that big would cause longtime rivals to miss out on playing simply because of division size.

I agree that Cincinnati won't be in the ACC but it wouldn't be because of academics. That's a misconception by people who buy into reporters who don't research anything. Cincinnati has some of the best academic research programs in the country and our athletic programs are among the better academic programs in the country (yes, even basketball), so academics isn't an issue. Our urban setting is the reason that we (along with Louisville) would never be in the ACC, along with out locations. I could see UC getting picked up by the SEC because of our market, god forbid, because I can't stand the SEC.

I agree though, the ACC and SEC WILL NOT expand. Expanding would cost them money, unless they picked up Notre Dame.

Quote:10 years ago UConn was non-existent (to me at least). I don't have any attendance records or football records in front of me, but I'm willing to bet UConn wasn't heads and shoulders ahead of UMass back in the 1-AA days. I think the Big East should actively pursue a Delaware or Umass or Fordham or whoever, because none of these schools will make the commitment without a commitment from the Big East in return, and I'd rather have one of these schools than some geographical outlier (one without the benefits of being in Florida).

-- I don't disagree NFLsucks....I would rather have Umass and stop at 9 schools too...but what I'm trying to say is that there are many roadblocks that Umass and the others DIAA schools are going to have to overcome...I can promise you that the Mass. legislature is not going to fit the bill for Umass football staduim improvemtns etc the same way the folks up in Conn did

-- Also I doubt a IAA school like Umass will move up unless they are sure they have a place in a BCS league...something that we can't really promise them untill the football schools now what they are doing to do in reagards to the split/expansion etc

-- The clock is really ticking on this....if the new league is going to begin play in 2010...Umass or whoever are going to need to announce there intentions of moving up soon


Jackson

7 schools BCS would like to include & have thier super conf. BYU & Utah to the Pac-10, ND to B-10, Conn,SYC, & Rutgers to ACC, WV & VT to the SEC. They could slam the door shut on everybody else.

pac 10 and big 10 are not going to expand. They have no desire to do so. Big 10 offered a spot for ND, but they don't really need ND. They aren't losing sleep over not having ND. Pac 10 does not want a conference championship game. What if USC had played a cc game and lost? No. They don't need the money. And USC is poised to remain dominant for a long time to come.

Next, VT is in the ACC already.

West Virginia and UL to the SEC... that I could see.

Cincy would work in the ACC just as well as Syracuse, Pitt or UConn. We'd be the furthest west, but we'd be closer to some schools in the conference than UConn or Syracuse. Cincy would be a better choice than Rutgers by a long shot.

With all of that said, though, I have still not heard a valid argument for where the money is to make the move truly viable. The extra tv markets ? Just doesn't seem compelling enough. Even adding the bb just doesn't seem like the money would be that compelling.

And unless you can figure out a way to GUARANTEE the extra bcs bid, then i don't see how you pay for the extra schools.

templefootballfan Wrote:7 schools BCS would like to include & have thier super conf. BYU & Utah to the Pac-10, ND to B-10, Conn,SYC, & Rutgers to ACC, WV & VT to the SEC. They could slam the door shut on everybody else.

No they wouldn't, because it would cost those schools money trying to support those schools. And, eventually, some of those schools would leave those conferences to form their own conferences. If the BCS wanted those teams they would have taken them.

Cat'sClaw,

I think what the poster was trying to say is that at a certain point in time a group of between 60-80 institutions will secede from the others and attempt to set-up their own division for all-sports.

As of next year, 57 of those institutions will be in the 5 super-conferences.

Of what remains, the institutions they listed (and while partially correct appears to be missing others) would need to be 'absorbed' into those 5 super-conferences or risk being left out.

Originally, this concept was referred to as the G-5, or Great 5, five super-conferences composed of 16 teams each.

However, the G-5 concept is becoming more and more untenable, and is probably being re-thought now in light of events over the past seven years. Some of these include:

*16-team conferences being considered unmanageable. It appears 12 is the optimum number with 9, 10, and 11 serviceable.

*More and more pressure to develop a playoff system for college football.

*Pac-10's reluctance to consider BYU for membership.

*G-5 concept never truly had a solution to the military academies situation.

*ACC expansion failing to make in-roads in the Northeast and settling for becoming SEC-lite.

*The emergence of UConn as a rising power, not originally planned on in the G-5 concept.

These and other factors have made the G-5 concept most likely obsolete before it ever became a reality.

Cheers,
Neil

think of that lawsuit with the other approx 40 schools, or 40 other individual lawsuits if that does happen.... could be interesting. And you thought there was legal trouble with this latest round of conference alignments.

Cat's_Claw Wrote:

catdaddy_2402 Wrote:No way in hell the ACC takes Cincy or South Florida simply because of academics.&nbsp; Academics (along with media market) was the biggest reason West Virginia wasn't involved in expansion the first time around.

Besides, the ACC and SEC have nothing to gain from your idea except more mouths to feed. Conferences that big would cause longtime rivals to miss out on playing simply because of division size.

I agree that Cincinnati won't be in the ACC but it wouldn't be because of academics. That's a misconception by people who buy into reporters who don't research anything. Cincinnati has some of the best academic research programs in the country and our athletic programs are among the better academic programs in the country (yes, even basketball), so academics isn't an issue. Our urban setting is the reason that we (along with Louisville) would never be in the ACC, along with out locations. I could see UC getting picked up by the SEC because of our market, god forbid, because I can't stand the SEC.

I agree though, the ACC and SEC WILL NOT expand. Expanding would cost them money, unless they picked up Notre Dame.

Not trying to bash Cincy or USF academics....but neither school comes close to the academic standards of the ACC. We aren't the Ivy League...but academics always have been and always will be a high priority with the ACC.

The only way I forsee the ACC going beyong 12 is if Notre Dame is somehow involved. If ND decides they would rather join the ACC, I'm sure the ACC would be willing to accomadate.

If Texas wants to move into the SEC, I'm sure they would be more than willing to consider it. Louisville or WVU to the SEC is not going to happen.

catdaddy_2402 Wrote:Not trying to bash Cincy or USF academics....but neither school comes close to the academic standards of the ACC. We aren't the Ivy League...but academics always have been and always will be a high priority with the ACC.

...explain Florida State... :D

catdaddy_2402 Wrote:

Cat's_Claw Wrote:

catdaddy_2402 Wrote:No way in hell the ACC takes Cincy or South Florida simply because of academics.  Academics (along with media market) was the biggest reason West Virginia wasn't involved in expansion the first time around.

Besides, the ACC and SEC have nothing to gain from your idea except more mouths to feed. Conferences that big would cause longtime rivals to miss out on playing simply because of division size.

I agree that Cincinnati won't be in the ACC but it wouldn't be because of academics. That's a misconception by people who buy into reporters who don't research anything. Cincinnati has some of the best academic research programs in the country and our athletic programs are among the better academic programs in the country (yes, even basketball), so academics isn't an issue. Our urban setting is the reason that we (along with Louisville) would never be in the ACC, along with out locations. I could see UC getting picked up by the SEC because of our market, god forbid, because I can't stand the SEC.

I agree though, the ACC and SEC WILL NOT expand. Expanding would cost them money, unless they picked up Notre Dame.

Not trying to bash Cincy or USF academics....but neither school comes close to the academic standards of the ACC. We aren't the Ivy League...but academics always have been and always will be a high priority with the ACC.

If Louisville was considered for the ACC then UC's academics wouldn't be an issue. UC's academic profile is actually much stronger then Louisville's. People read the media and articles to much. But ADs and Presidents do the research. That's what the Big East did and they were shocked at how strong UC's academic profile was. Remember, UC is in the Big East because Boston College supported them. And part of the reason they supported UC was because of their academic profile.

99Tiger Wrote:

catdaddy_2402 Wrote:Not trying to bash Cincy or USF academics....but neither school comes close to the academic standards of the ACC.&nbsp; We aren't the Ivy League...but academics always have been and always will be a high priority with the ACC.

...explain Florida State... :D

And Miami! :D