However, the cred could get really nice for the 'Belt if FIU can knock off UCF at home.

(08-29-2011 11:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I think we can look at it this way. Is there any CUSA program that the Belt wouldn't love to have as a SBC member.

UAB doesn't bring much in football. Marshall not so much either. UTEP is too far away to get too excited about. Memphis and Tulane blow chunks as far as football goes. Rice as well.

But having said that. Even though Memphis and Tulane might finish at the bottom of the Belt, they have loooooong histories and above average facilities for the 'Belt.

I couldn't concieve the 'Belt turning down any CUSA member.

Tulane Facilities???? No FB stadium except for the empty Daom---B-ball a joke----baseball is nice---No Tulane does not have good facilities--Well at least not near what the Cajuns have and will have!!!!

(08-29-2011 11:14 PM)exflash Wrote:  

(08-29-2011 11:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I think we can look at it this way. Is there any CUSA program that the Belt wouldn't love to have as a SBC member.

UAB doesn't bring much in football. Marshall not so much either. UTEP is too far away to get too excited about. Memphis and Tulane blow chunks as far as football goes. Rice as well.

But having said that. Even though Memphis and Tulane might finish at the bottom of the Belt, they have loooooong histories and above average facilities for the 'Belt.

I couldn't concieve the 'Belt turning down any CUSA member.

Tulane Facilities???? No FB stadium except for the empty Daom---B-ball a joke----baseball is nice---No Tulane does not have good facilities--Well at least not near what the Cajuns have and will have!!!!

True..but if Tulane wanted in the 'Belt, I don't see them being denied. That was my point. Certainly beats the hell out of Ladd Peebles (USA). And that its' my team.

At least Tulane can credibly host a major FCS team at home as it has the capacity to do so.

(08-29-2011 11:21 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-29-2011 11:14 PM)exflash Wrote:  

(08-29-2011 11:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I think we can look at it this way. Is there any CUSA program that the Belt wouldn't love to have as a SBC member.

UAB doesn't bring much in football. Marshall not so much either. UTEP is too far away to get too excited about. Memphis and Tulane blow chunks as far as football goes. Rice as well.

But having said that. Even though Memphis and Tulane might finish at the bottom of the Belt, they have loooooong histories and above average facilities for the 'Belt.

I couldn't concieve the 'Belt turning down any CUSA member.

Tulane Facilities???? No FB stadium except for the empty Daom---B-ball a joke----baseball is nice---No Tulane does not have good facilities--Well at least not near what the Cajuns have and will have!!!!

True..but if Tulane wanted in the 'Belt, I don't see them being denied. That was my point. Certainly beats the hell out of Ladd Peebles (USA). And that its' my team.

At least Tulane can credibly host a major FCS team at home as it has the capacity to do so.

A major FCS team...Eastern Washington?

(08-29-2011 11:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I think we can look at it this way. Is there any CUSA program that the Belt wouldn't love to have as a SBC member.

UAB doesn't bring much in football. Marshall not so much either. UTEP is too far away to get too excited about. Memphis and Tulane blow chunks as far as football goes. Rice as well.

But having said that. Even though Memphis and Tulane might finish at the bottom of the Belt, they have loooooong histories and above average facilities for the 'Belt.

I couldn't concieve the 'Belt turning down any CUSA member.

That's because it's a better conference pretty much across the board. The school's have better academic reputations, bigger endowments, more name recognition, and they're marginally better in most sports and much better in a few others, even baseball(probably our best sport) is a little bit better in CUSA(they typically rank 1-2 spots ahead of us in conference RPI). It's not that they're waaaay ahead of us in any sport(aside from MBB anyhow) it's the sum of all the small advantages they have over us. There's only a handful of schools who wouldn't have led the Sun Belt in attendance last year, they're bottom feeders attendance is just a little bit worse than our best.

I would gladly take any member of CUSA, the only one I'd even hesitate on would be UTEP and that's only out of geographic considerations.

Now of course in the scenario that they are raided, it would, in theory be possible for us to attempt a power move, but it could backfire on us and rather than us taking two CUSA members, they just take WAC or FCS members and while they're now a bit weaker than they were before, they're still the better conference by virtue of the fact that the core of their conference still has those advantages(endowment, academics, football average attendance, MBB, etc.) and every Sun Belt member who refused the invite is left kicking themselves.

You just have to ask yourself, what's better for your program...

Staying in the same poorly regarded(although improving) conference that would improve a bit more by adding a few former CUSA members and watching FCS/WAC teams fill out CUSA and probably the conferences be on near equal footing...

or

Joining a freshly raided CUSA with the other fellow "stars" of your conference. Taking with you, most of what made the Sun Belt good, and joining the remainder of a conference that's stronger than what's left of the conference you just left behind.

Do this little exercise, pick who you consider to be the top 4 most attractive potential conference mates in CUSA, be it for overall strength of their program or an individual sport that's important to you, be it because they are an instate program that you'd love to start a rivalry with, or be it some other factor(or combination of factors), just your top 4.

For me:
1) Memphis
2) Southern Miss
3) East Carolina
4) Central Florida

Now pick your top three conference mates and/or any FCS schools you'd take with you if it were up to you, again whatever schools you choose for whatever reasons you decide is your business, just pick them...

For me
1) Western Kentucky
2) South Alabama
3) One of FAU/FIU

Now take away your favorite member of CUSA and put yourself in their place and ask yourself what looks better, your program with the other 11 CUSA schools, or your program in the Sun Belt plus your two favorite CUSA members, also compare you plus the other 11 CUSA members to you in the Sun Belt as it exists today, because that's the comparison that really matters in the event that CUSA balks at our power play and backfills with La Tech and FCS schools. You can continue the exercise on down the line, does you and your top choice to come with you to CUSA look better than you in the current Sun Belt?

See at the end of the day CUSA is still in the position of power, unless we sign something legally binding to deter us from defecting(i.e. large exit fees) CUSA will know that we won't turn them down if for no other reason than the fear that one of our conference mates won't honor the agreement. How bad would it suck to turn down an invite banking on the fact that everyone else took the agreement seriously only to have a few of your conference mates bail? CUSA will know this and use it as leverage, furthermore, it's unlikely our members will be willing to sign up for large exit fees from fear that our power play does backfire and CUSA backfills without us rather than us poaching two of their members. CUSA will know this and use it as leverage. The only way for our power play to have any hope of working is if we all sign the exit fees and we'll all only sign the exit fees if we're sincerely okay with the chance of the backfire and us not being able to grab two members, thus only closing the gap between us and CUSA, not necessarily taking over...and at the end of the day, I just don't think we'll be okay with that. It's just not the smartest move to back yourself into a corner like that.

(08-30-2011 01:27 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(08-29-2011 11:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I think we can look at it this way. Is there any CUSA program that the Belt wouldn't love to have as a SBC member.

UAB doesn't bring much in football. Marshall not so much either. UTEP is too far away to get too excited about. Memphis and Tulane blow chunks as far as football goes. Rice as well.

But having said that. Even though Memphis and Tulane might finish at the bottom of the Belt, they have loooooong histories and above average facilities for the 'Belt.

I couldn't concieve the 'Belt turning down any CUSA member.

That's because it's a better conference pretty much across the board. The school's have better academic reputations, bigger endowments, more name recognition, and they're marginally better in most sports and much better in a few others, even baseball(probably our best sport) is a little bit better in CUSA(they typically rank 1-2 spots ahead of us in conference RPI). It's not that they're waaaay ahead of us in any sport(aside from MBB anyhow) it's the sum of all the small advantages they have over us. There's only a handful of schools who wouldn't have led the Sun Belt in attendance last year, they're bottom feeders attendance is just a little bit worse than our best.

I would gladly take any member of CUSA, the only one I'd even hesitate on would be UTEP and that's only out of geographic considerations.

Now of course in the scenario that they are raided, it would, in theory be possible for us to attempt a power move, but it could backfire on us and rather than us taking two CUSA members, they just take WAC or FCS members and while they're now a bit weaker than they were before, they're still the better conference by virtue of the fact that the core of their conference still has those advantages(endowment, academics, football average attendance, MBB, etc.) and every Sun Belt member who refused the invite is left kicking themselves.

You just have to ask yourself, what's better for your program...

Staying in the same poorly regarded(although improving) conference that would improve a bit more by adding a few former CUSA members and watching FCS/WAC teams fill out CUSA and probably the conferences be on near equal footing...

or

Joining a freshly raided CUSA with the other fellow "stars" of your conference. Taking with you, most of what made the Sun Belt good, and joining the remainder of a conference that's stronger than what's left of the conference you just left behind.

Do this little exercise, pick who you consider to be the top 4 most attractive potential conference mates in CUSA, be it for overall strength of their program or an individual sport that's important to you, be it because they are an instate program that you'd love to start a rivalry with, or be it some other factor(or combination of factors), just your top 4.

For me:
1) Memphis
2) Southern Miss
3) East Carolina
4) Central Florida

Now pick your top three conference mates and/or any FCS schools you'd take with you if it were up to you, again whatever schools you choose for whatever reasons you decide is your business, just pick them...

For me
1) Western Kentucky
2) South Alabama
3) One of FAU/FIU

Now take away your favorite member of CUSA and put yourself in their place and ask yourself what looks better, your program with the other 11 CUSA schools, or your program in the Sun Belt plus your two favorite CUSA members, also compare you plus the other 11 CUSA members to you in the Sun Belt as it exists today, because that's the comparison that really matters in the event that CUSA balks at our power play and backfills with La Tech and FCS schools. You can continue the exercise on down the line, does you and your top choice to come with you to CUSA look better than you in the current Sun Belt?

See at the end of the day CUSA is still in the position of power, unless we sign something legally binding to deter us from defecting(i.e. large exit fees) CUSA will know that we won't turn them down if for no other reason than the fear that one of our conference mates won't honor the agreement. How bad would it suck to turn down an invite banking on the fact that everyone else took the agreement seriously only to have a few of your conference mates bail? CUSA will know this and use it as leverage, furthermore, it's unlikely our members will be willing to sign up for large exit fees from fear that our power play does backfire and CUSA backfills without us rather than us poaching two of their members. CUSA will know this and use it as leverage. The only way for our power play to have any hope of working is if we all sign the exit fees and we'll all only sign the exit fees if we're sincerely okay with the chance of the backfire and us not being able to grab two members, thus only closing the gap between us and CUSA, not necessarily taking over...and at the end of the day, I just don't think we'll be okay with that. It's just not the smartest move to back yourself into a corner like that.

The problem with your theory is that ECU, Houston, Memphis, and UCF will all be gone. This is what you really need to look at.

New CUSA West

Tulsa
Rice
SMU
UTEP
Tulane
USM

New CUSA East

Marshal
WKU
MTSU
USA
FAU\FIU
UAB

Or

New Belt West

ASU
ULL
ULM
UNT
Tulsa
USM

New Belt East

MTSU
WKU
Troy
USA
FIU
FAU

(08-28-2011 05:23 PM)eager eagle Wrote:  

(08-26-2011 07:47 PM)rockstar791 Wrote:  Link to the CUSA board where they discuss which conference they feel is the worst in the FBS.

http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=509805

--------------------------------

There is a lot of respect within cusa for most of the sunbelt members. Frankly, a couple of sunbelt teams (USA and Mdl Tn) meet most of the cusa membership criteria if a new team were needed. ULL has only boarderline interest due to the conflict surrounding the name they want to claim and in which cusa does not want to get involved.

Careful. Your agenda is showing. Again.

(08-30-2011 08:24 AM)statefanatic Wrote:  

(08-30-2011 01:27 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(08-29-2011 11:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I think we can look at it this way. Is there any CUSA program that the Belt wouldn't love to have as a SBC member.

UAB doesn't bring much in football. Marshall not so much either. UTEP is too far away to get too excited about. Memphis and Tulane blow chunks as far as football goes. Rice as well.

But having said that. Even though Memphis and Tulane might finish at the bottom of the Belt, they have loooooong histories and above average facilities for the 'Belt.

I couldn't concieve the 'Belt turning down any CUSA member.

That's because it's a better conference pretty much across the board. The school's have better academic reputations, bigger endowments, more name recognition, and they're marginally better in most sports and much better in a few others, even baseball(probably our best sport) is a little bit better in CUSA(they typically rank 1-2 spots ahead of us in conference RPI). It's not that they're waaaay ahead of us in any sport(aside from MBB anyhow) it's the sum of all the small advantages they have over us. There's only a handful of schools who wouldn't have led the Sun Belt in attendance last year, they're bottom feeders attendance is just a little bit worse than our best.

I would gladly take any member of CUSA, the only one I'd even hesitate on would be UTEP and that's only out of geographic considerations.

Now of course in the scenario that they are raided, it would, in theory be possible for us to attempt a power move, but it could backfire on us and rather than us taking two CUSA members, they just take WAC or FCS members and while they're now a bit weaker than they were before, they're still the better conference by virtue of the fact that the core of their conference still has those advantages(endowment, academics, football average attendance, MBB, etc.) and every Sun Belt member who refused the invite is left kicking themselves.

You just have to ask yourself, what's better for your program...

Staying in the same poorly regarded(although improving) conference that would improve a bit more by adding a few former CUSA members and watching FCS/WAC teams fill out CUSA and probably the conferences be on near equal footing...

or

Joining a freshly raided CUSA with the other fellow "stars" of your conference. Taking with you, most of what made the Sun Belt good, and joining the remainder of a conference that's stronger than what's left of the conference you just left behind.

Do this little exercise, pick who you consider to be the top 4 most attractive potential conference mates in CUSA, be it for overall strength of their program or an individual sport that's important to you, be it because they are an instate program that you'd love to start a rivalry with, or be it some other factor(or combination of factors), just your top 4.

For me:
1) Memphis
2) Southern Miss
3) East Carolina
4) Central Florida

Now pick your top three conference mates and/or any FCS schools you'd take with you if it were up to you, again whatever schools you choose for whatever reasons you decide is your business, just pick them...

For me
1) Western Kentucky
2) South Alabama
3) One of FAU/FIU

Now take away your favorite member of CUSA and put yourself in their place and ask yourself what looks better, your program with the other 11 CUSA schools, or your program in the Sun Belt plus your two favorite CUSA members, also compare you plus the other 11 CUSA members to you in the Sun Belt as it exists today, because that's the comparison that really matters in the event that CUSA balks at our power play and backfills with La Tech and FCS schools. You can continue the exercise on down the line, does you and your top choice to come with you to CUSA look better than you in the current Sun Belt?

See at the end of the day CUSA is still in the position of power, unless we sign something legally binding to deter us from defecting(i.e. large exit fees) CUSA will know that we won't turn them down if for no other reason than the fear that one of our conference mates won't honor the agreement. How bad would it suck to turn down an invite banking on the fact that everyone else took the agreement seriously only to have a few of your conference mates bail? CUSA will know this and use it as leverage, furthermore, it's unlikely our members will be willing to sign up for large exit fees from fear that our power play does backfire and CUSA backfills without us rather than us poaching two of their members. CUSA will know this and use it as leverage. The only way for our power play to have any hope of working is if we all sign the exit fees and we'll all only sign the exit fees if we're sincerely okay with the chance of the backfire and us not being able to grab two members, thus only closing the gap between us and CUSA, not necessarily taking over...and at the end of the day, I just don't think we'll be okay with that. It's just not the smartest move to back yourself into a corner like that.

The problem with your theory is that ECU, Houston, Memphis, and UCF will all be gone. This is what you really need to look at.

New CUSA West

Tulsa
Rice
SMU
UTEP
Tulane
USM

New CUSA East

Marshal
WKU
MTSU
USA
FAU\FIU
UAB

Or

New Belt West

ASU
ULL
ULM
UNT
Tulsa
USM

New Belt East

MTSU
WKU
Troy
USA
FIU
FAU

Clearly you failed to understand what I was saying, the point I was trying to make was, even taking out my top four members of CUSA, replacing them with MT and my three favorite Sun Belt members would be my preferred conference.

MT
WKU
USA
FIU
Marshall
UAB

Tulane
Houston
Rice
SMU
UTEP
Tulsa

Is more attractive to me than the Belt.

The point of outlining it like I did was to say go down the line and take out your favorite CUSA programs one by one and start replacing them with yourself, then your favorite candidates to go with you, at what point does the new CUSA stop being more attractive than the Sun Belt?

And FWIW-Memphis isn't going anywhere any time soon.

(08-30-2011 08:41 AM)AstroCajun Wrote:  

(08-28-2011 05:23 PM)eager eagle Wrote:  

(08-26-2011 07:47 PM)rockstar791 Wrote:  Link to the CUSA board where they discuss which conference they feel is the worst in the FBS.

http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=509805

--------------------------------

There is a lot of respect within cusa for most of the sunbelt members. Frankly, a couple of sunbelt teams (USA and Mdl Tn) meet most of the cusa membership criteria if a new team were needed. ULL has only boarderline interest due to the conflict surrounding the name they want to claim and in which cusa does not want to get involved.

Careful. Your agenda is showing. Again.

--------------------------------------------------

If I had an agenda or opinion that mattered to anyone then you would see a meeting of some college presidents next Monday and this conference reshuffle business would be settled once and for all.

I find it a bit insulting that you chose South over Troy MTPikapp. Are you just looking to ditch us because you can't beat us?

(08-30-2011 05:03 PM)Burn the Horse Wrote:  I find it a bit insulting that you chose South over Troy MTPikapp. Are you just looking to ditch us because you can't beat us?

I find it insulting that he would rather be in a CUSA East with UAB and Marshal rather than Troy and FAU.

Also he would rather have UTEP, Rice, SMU, and Tulane over ASU, ULL, ULM, and UNT.

The talent level is the same but the bowl games are not.

(08-30-2011 07:00 PM)BlueRaiderFan. Wrote:  The talent level is the same but the bowl games are not.

a raided C-USA would be a lot like the "new WAC's" older brother. not as bad, but certainly not where it used to be.

(08-30-2011 05:03 PM)Burn the Horse Wrote:  I find it a bit insulting that you chose South over Troy MTPikapp. Are you just looking to ditch us because you can't beat us?

(08-30-2011 05:39 PM)statefanatic Wrote:  

(08-30-2011 05:03 PM)Burn the Horse Wrote:  I find it a bit insulting that you chose South over Troy MTPikapp. Are you just looking to ditch us because you can't beat us?

I find it insulting that he would rather be in a CUSA East with UAB and Marshal rather than Troy and FAU.

Also he would rather have UTEP, Rice, SMU, and Tulane over ASU, ULL, ULM, and UNT.

As far as Troy vs South goes, South has the better overall athletic department and I'm partial to Mobile and just to level with you, I don't think CUSA would ever take Troy. True or not, there's an academic stigma, the enrollment is small the town is small and at current, you're really a one trick pony...I suppose baseball can be thrown in there as well, but how far down the line do you think baseball factors into realignment. I'm happy to be in a conference with Troy now and despite the lopsidedness of it, I enjoy the rivalry, but that doesn't change the fact that at the end of the day, we have a good bit more in common with South than we do with Troy.

As far as the rest of the conference goes, you can all scoff and get insulted if you want, but the only CUSA school with a smaller budget than any Sun Belt school is Southern Miss and they'd still be like third in the Sun Belt. The only CUSA school that wouldn't have led the Sun Belt in attendance in 2010 is UAB and they still would have been in the top three.

From the perspective of what's best for your school, it's not even a remotely difficult decision. If you get a chance to move to a conference where pretty much every member has a larger budget than every member in your existing conference, and pretty much every school has better attendance and pretty much every school would win the Sun Belt in MBB, it's not a tough decision. As Middle Tennessee who has the best overall athletic program in the conference, has one of the highest budgets and usually is one of the top two or three in attendance, what should we do? Sit around hoping the rest of the conference will wave a magic wand and double their budget and increase their football attendance by 30%-50%? Or join a conference where we would have a better opportunity to grow? Again it's just the reality that CUSA would be in the real position of power as they would know none of us could realistically turn down an invite.

(08-30-2011 10:20 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  As Middle Tennessee who has the best overall athletic program in the conference, has one of the highest budgets and usually is one of the top two or three in attendance, what should we do?

LOL wat?

(08-30-2011 11:57 PM)ntmeangreen11 Wrote:  

(08-30-2011 10:20 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  As Middle Tennessee who has the best overall athletic program in the conference, has one of the highest budgets and usually is one of the top two or three in attendance, what should we do?

LOL wat?

What's your point of contention?

7 of 11 Buba's cups since joining the conference

Athletic budget has always been in the top three

Football attendance has been first or second pretty much every year since Stock came on board

The question was, if we were offered a spot in CUSA, do you really think we should reject the invite to a conference with higher attendance and bigger budgets etc. that will give us a better chance to grow, simply because "Darn it! We've built the Sun Belt into an almost respectable conference."

(08-30-2011 10:20 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  As far as Troy vs South goes, South has the better overall athletic department and I'm partial to Mobile and just to level with you, I don't think CUSA would ever take Troy. True or not, there's an academic stigma, the enrollment is small the town is small and at current, you're really a one trick pony...I suppose baseball can be thrown in there as well, but how far down the line do you think baseball factors into realignment. I'm happy to be in a conference with Troy now and despite the lopsidedness of it, I enjoy the rivalry, but that doesn't change the fact that at the end of the day, we have a good bit more in common with South than we do with Troy.

As far as the rest of the conference goes, you can all scoff and get insulted if you want, but the only CUSA school with a smaller budget than any Sun Belt school is Southern Miss and they'd still be like third in the Sun Belt. The only CUSA school that wouldn't have led the Sun Belt in attendance in 2010 is UAB and they still would have been in the top three.

From the perspective of what's best for your school, it's not even a remotely difficult decision. If you get a chance to move to a conference where pretty much every member has a larger budget than every member in your existing conference, and pretty much every school has better attendance and pretty much every school would win the Sun Belt in MBB, it's not a tough decision. As Middle Tennessee who has the best overall athletic program in the conference, has one of the highest budgets and usually is one of the top two or three in attendance, what should we do? Sit around hoping the rest of the conference will wave a magic wand and double their budget and increase their football attendance by 30%-50%? Or join a conference where we would have a better opportunity to grow? Again it's just the reality that CUSA would be in the real position of power as they would know none of us could realistically turn down an invite.

All that; for this? Really???

I would be for the Cajuns to leave the SunBelt the second C-USA came calling.. That said, I really do like the SunBelt, I think its getting better and better every year.. But being in C-USA it would give us 4 teams that would take us only 4 hours to drive to. (Houston, Rice, USM, and Tulane) and we have a history with all those teams...

What I see is C-USA being raided to the point that they would only have 6 teams left. If that happened I would love to see a merger of the whole belt with the remaining C-USA members, hey that is how we all got in the Sunbelt in the first place... 16 team league, 8 east and 8 west..

Take our current 10 members and add Tulane, USM, Rice, Marshal, UAB, maybe Memphis or Tulsa... Would be a great regional conference..