My Ford Fiesta gets over 40MPG on the highway and was considerably less than $20,000 for a nearly loaded model.

(08-05-2011 11:52 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(08-05-2011 11:31 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-05-2011 11:18 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(08-05-2011 11:02 AM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

(08-05-2011 10:58 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Keep it up with the ignorant comments. You know NOTHING about the Volt or when it was thought of/designed and planned for the market. Here's a hint-it was LONG before the bailout.

What do you care? You can't afford either one.

I care that he spits out lies and misinformation about something has no clue about.

What you are failing to grasp is that the Volt in and of itself may not be a bad product for certain consumers. The problem is the vehicle is grossly overpriced for what you can get out of it. On top of that, the gov't is subsidizing each car by $7500 each. If you could get this car for $25K (unsubsidized) or less, I think it would sell a lot better.

I do not agree that the Chevy Volt is a green car. All you are doing is trading CO2 emissions from burning gasoline for CO2 emissions from power plants that use fossil fuels. Now if the country can draw the majority of its power from nuclear, wind, solar, biomass and tidal energy power plants, then it would be green. Until then, the Chevy Volt pollutes every bit as much as most of the other cars currently on the road.

Try reading my earlier post again. I said it isn't selling very well because it costs too much. I am not missing anything.

I understood your post fine. I don't think you quite understand why people are calling the Volt a failed product. The Volt succeeds in what it is trying to accomplish. However, the quality of the product itself is not the only determinant to declaring it successful or not. If the cost is too high, and the government has to subsidize part of the cost for the product, then it is a failure. The consumers either 1) want a lot higher mpg equivalent via a battery that will last a lot longer or 2) want the price to drop significantly to the point where a car like this is attractive to consumers.

A general rule of thumb: When the gov't has to pay consumers to buy a product, it is not a successful product.

What am I missing with the Tesla? The roadster accellerates like a ferrari and is priced like one, but the sedan coming out seats 7!! and will cost something like 50k. Same kind of price as a lexus, cheaper than a mercedes and looks like one. I USED to drive 4 miles a day... now I drive 100. Why WOULDNT I buy one of these??

Why haven't the "big boys" taken this company on??

I've seen the Tesla roadster... it is BAD ASS!

As to the emissions issue.. producing electricity (overall) creates less harmful emissions than a running car.

(08-05-2011 01:19 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  What am I missing with the Tesla? The roadster accellerates like a ferrari and is priced like one, but the sedan coming out seats 7!! and will cost something like 50k. Same kind of price as a lexus, cheaper than a mercedes and looks like one. I USED to drive 4 miles a day... now I drive 100. Why WOULDNT I buy one of these??

Why haven't the "big boys" taken this company on??

I've seen the Tesla roadster... it is BAD ASS!

As to the emissions issue.. producing electricity (overall) creates less harmful emissions than a running car.

That's true, but it still has a larger CO2 footprint than people care to admit. Now with less CO2 produced, the world would become less green because CO2 is used by plants for food. Crop yields will suffer and the world becomes physically less green because we elected to "go green"...

(08-05-2011 12:59 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-05-2011 11:52 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(08-05-2011 11:31 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-05-2011 11:18 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(08-05-2011 11:02 AM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  What do you care? You can't afford either one.

I care that he spits out lies and misinformation about something has no clue about.

What you are failing to grasp is that the Volt in and of itself may not be a bad product for certain consumers. The problem is the vehicle is grossly overpriced for what you can get out of it. On top of that, the gov't is subsidizing each car by $7500 each. If you could get this car for $25K (unsubsidized) or less, I think it would sell a lot better.

I do not agree that the Chevy Volt is a green car. All you are doing is trading CO2 emissions from burning gasoline for CO2 emissions from power plants that use fossil fuels. Now if the country can draw the majority of its power from nuclear, wind, solar, biomass and tidal energy power plants, then it would be green. Until then, the Chevy Volt pollutes every bit as much as most of the other cars currently on the road.

Try reading my earlier post again. I said it isn't selling very well because it costs too much. I am not missing anything.

I understood your post fine. I don't think you quite understand why people are calling the Volt a failed product. The Volt succeeds in what it is trying to accomplish. However, the quality of the product itself is not the only determinant to declaring it successful or not. If the cost is too high, and the government has to subsidize part of the cost for the product, then it is a failure. The consumers either 1) want a lot higher mpg equivalent via a battery that will last a lot longer or 2) want the price to drop significantly to the point where a car like this is attractive to consumers.

A general rule of thumb: When the gov't has to pay consumers to buy a product, it is not a successful product.

C'mon Roberta, tell us how successful the Chevy Volt is.

(08-05-2011 01:19 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  What am I missing with the Tesla? The roadster accellerates like a ferrari and is priced like one, but the sedan coming out seats 7!! and will cost something like 50k. Same kind of price as a lexus, cheaper than a mercedes and looks like one. I USED to drive 4 miles a day... now I drive 100. Why WOULDNT I buy one of these??

Why haven't the "big boys" taken this company on??

I've seen the Tesla roadster... it is BAD ASS!

As to the emissions issue.. producing electricity (overall) creates less harmful emissions than a running car.

I think they get gov't subsidies.

There are some other makers looking at high end electrics.

(08-05-2011 01:19 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  As to the emissions issue.. producing electricity (overall) creates less harmful emissions than a running car.

I did a lot of reading and listening to people talking about hybrids in the late '90s. When a car engine is running at it's sweet-spot, the most efficient RPMs, it doesn't produce much worse emissions than a coal plant. And the wallplug energy efficiencies slightly favor the car.

That's why hybrids had such promise.

And that's the basis of design for the Volvo hybrid concept. I think hybrids could do better than what's been seen so far. But I don't think all electric will ever be a universal killer app.

What I think might happen are small, commuter electrics. Ones that can get you to work, the store and home. They'll have easy in-and-out batteries b/c it will take longer than overnite to charge, so you'll go back and forth. They will be standardized so that you can just exhange batteries (a la propane tanks) using the existing gas station distribution network. This will also allow them to be used on longer freeway trips.

(08-05-2011 10:01 AM)Rebel Wrote:  

(08-05-2011 09:58 AM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  If everything I did was inside its radius, I would consider purchasing one. But, since I haven't considered it, I don't even know how much they cost.

> $40,000

And how much does your electric bill go up?

What is the cost to set up the house to charge the car?

(08-05-2011 10:51 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(08-05-2011 09:58 AM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  If everything I did was inside its radius, I would consider purchasing one. But, since I haven't considered it, I don't even know how much they cost.

Boy, am I glad you made that stupid ass comment. The Volt is NOT the Leaf. It doesn't work the same way. Now go read up on it and get back to us with an intelligent comment. As for price, I do think that is the reason it is not selling very well. I do think Rebs finally got someething right in this lifetime, it is around $40,000. I will help you out here.

http://www.plugincars.com/chevrolet-volt

(08-05-2011 10:42 AM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  I know Prius and Insight aren't EVs, and the Leaf doesn't have an on-board generator, but c'mon! How can we not figure out how to make something for cheaper?

You'd think going through Oprah's Book Club would have taught you some reading comprehension.

(08-05-2011 10:22 AM)Rebel Wrote:  How about this design?

I love that cartoon!

(08-05-2011 12:30 PM)Rebel Wrote:  Here fool:

Quote:According to General Motors the Volt can travel 25 to 50 miles (40 to 80 km) on its lithium-ion battery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt

Also:

Quote: Lithium ion batteries are commonly used in cell phones and notebook computers. Regular batteries contain acid and toxic metals such as cadmium, and they produce toxic reactions when they're put into landfills. Lithium ion batteries are more environmentally friendly, but they can still cause dangers when thrown into a landfill.

Dangers to Environment

Lithium ion batteries are nontoxic, and they've been rated safe for landfill disposal. The reason they're non-toxic is that they don't contain materials that are dangerous to the environment by themselves; metals like cobalt make up most of each battery. Despite the name, there is no lithium present in these batteries. If a lithium ion battery in a landfill ruptures and comes into contact with water, however, it can create a dangerous mixture that will sink down into the groundwater.

Dangers to Wildlife

The concern that animals who prowl landfills will mistake batteries for food applies to lithium ion batteries. Even though animals aren't supposed to be in landfills in the first place, they do make their way in to find waste that's edible. Eating lithium ion batteries is dangerous, especially if the metals they contain--cobalt, copper, nickel and iron--leach into an animal's system. The metals can cause great harm and likely death. The same is true for people who eat these batteries.

Wasted Space

One of the biggest harms that lithium ion batteries cause in landfills is that they take up space. The batteries are completely recyclable, but many millions of them are thrown away every year because they're considered landfill-safe. The salvage price for the metals, according to "Computer World," isn't enough to make concerted recycling efforts financially worthwhile. Thus, millions of tons of lithium ion batteries are added to landfills, taking up room that could be saved. Additionally, throwing the batteries away means that fresh metals have to be mined, and mining has a much bigger environmental impact than simple recycling would. http://www.ehow.com/list_7199592_hazards...fills.html

25-50 miles? For $40K? Is that right?

That's not a car, it's a golf cart.

(08-05-2011 11:20 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(08-05-2011 11:09 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-05-2011 10:31 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Another failed Obabba gov't experiment, highly subsidized by taxpayer money.

Just give it time Obama will print more money and start adding these to the government fleet pool...

As I said, this is why his lies and misinformation matter. THe ignorance of the tea bagging masses spreads like a STD.

Lies huh?

Quote:FLINT, Michigan — The Chevy Volt redefined General Motors. Now it's helping redefine the fleet of vehicles used by the federal government and municipalities across the country.

The electric car that also uses a gas engine is being used in New York City's fleet of vehicles, according to an article in The New York Times.

President Barack Obama also recently mandated that electric and hybrid vehicles such as the Volt should be used by the government.

According to the article, "The official government sedan clearly is changing its complexion. The big, anonymous machines that idled at street corners and barreled down highways in shushed anonymity are disappearing."

So what we have is a car which cant sell but a handful in the private sector banking on Government Fleet Usage..

(08-05-2011 06:16 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  So what we have is a car which cant sell but a handful [to Obama Advisor Jeffrey Immelts zero-income-tax corporation] in the private sector banking on Government Fleet Usage..

FIFY

The Volt will make the Yugo look like a Honda Accord.

(08-05-2011 08:31 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  The Volt will make the Yugo look like a Honda Accord.

Well said.

(08-05-2011 03:53 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(08-05-2011 12:30 PM)Rebel Wrote:  Here fool:

Quote:According to General Motors the Volt can travel 25 to 50 miles (40 to 80 km) on its lithium-ion battery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt

Also:

Quote: Lithium ion batteries are commonly used in cell phones and notebook computers. Regular batteries contain acid and toxic metals such as cadmium, and they produce toxic reactions when they're put into landfills. Lithium ion batteries are more environmentally friendly, but they can still cause dangers when thrown into a landfill.

Dangers to Environment

Lithium ion batteries are nontoxic, and they've been rated safe for landfill disposal. The reason they're non-toxic is that they don't contain materials that are dangerous to the environment by themselves; metals like cobalt make up most of each battery. Despite the name, there is no lithium present in these batteries. If a lithium ion battery in a landfill ruptures and comes into contact with water, however, it can create a dangerous mixture that will sink down into the groundwater.

Dangers to Wildlife

The concern that animals who prowl landfills will mistake batteries for food applies to lithium ion batteries. Even though animals aren't supposed to be in landfills in the first place, they do make their way in to find waste that's edible. Eating lithium ion batteries is dangerous, especially if the metals they contain--cobalt, copper, nickel and iron--leach into an animal's system. The metals can cause great harm and likely death. The same is true for people who eat these batteries.

Wasted Space

One of the biggest harms that lithium ion batteries cause in landfills is that they take up space. The batteries are completely recyclable, but many millions of them are thrown away every year because they're considered landfill-safe. The salvage price for the metals, according to "Computer World," isn't enough to make concerted recycling efforts financially worthwhile. Thus, millions of tons of lithium ion batteries are added to landfills, taking up room that could be saved. Additionally, throwing the batteries away means that fresh metals have to be mined, and mining has a much bigger environmental impact than simple recycling would. http://www.ehow.com/list_7199592_hazards...fills.html

25-50 miles? For $40K? Is that right?

That's not a car, it's a golf cart.

Not exactly. The battery alone on a charge only goes that far but what these morons forget to mention is the gas generator which in turn keeps charging the battery as you drive.

(08-05-2011 02:01 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(08-05-2011 01:19 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  What am I missing with the Tesla? The roadster accellerates like a ferrari and is priced like one, but the sedan coming out seats 7!! and will cost something like 50k. Same kind of price as a lexus, cheaper than a mercedes and looks like one. I USED to drive 4 miles a day... now I drive 100. Why WOULDNT I buy one of these??

Why haven't the "big boys" taken this company on??

I've seen the Tesla roadster... it is BAD ASS!

As to the emissions issue.. producing electricity (overall) creates less harmful emissions than a running car.

I think they get gov't subsidies.

There are some other makers looking at high end electrics.

They do get the subsidy. The Telsa is 100% elec, goes 150-300 miles on a charge, and will fully recharge in something like 2-8 hours depending on set-up. 8 hours with a 110v plug.

(08-05-2011 02:07 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(08-05-2011 01:19 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  As to the emissions issue.. producing electricity (overall) creates less harmful emissions than a running car.

I did a lot of reading and listening to people talking about hybrids in the late '90s. When a car engine is running at it's sweet-spot, the most efficient RPMs, it doesn't produce much worse emissions than a coal plant. And the wallplug energy efficiencies slightly favor the car.

That's why hybrids had such promise.

And that's the basis of design for the Volvo hybrid concept. I think hybrids could do better than what's been seen so far. But I don't think all electric will ever be a universal killer app.

What I think might happen are small, commuter electrics. Ones that can get you to work, the store and home. They'll have easy in-and-out batteries b/c it will take longer than overnite to charge, so you'll go back and forth. They will be standardized so that you can just exhange batteries (a la propane tanks) using the existing gas station distribution network. This will also allow them to be used on longer freeway trips.

See, I don't get hybrids. Their MPG isn't much better (and often worse) than the VW TDI without all of the hopes and prayers... plus they're pretty ugly. The Tesla is 100% elec... no gas at all... it seats 7 and looks like a Maserati Quattroporte. Even on a long commute, you plug in while at work. I think it says something like $3.00 to fully recharge... assuming 3.50/gal and 40mpg it costs about 3.5 times that to run 150 miles on gas... and 40MPG is generous for a 7 seat vehicle... PLUS ZERO emissions. I know, I know... batteries etc... but I'm more interested in the national security/energy dependence issues than the "green" issues.

I used to commute 4 miles per day. Now it's 100. I'd STILL buy a Tesla

(08-05-2011 03:16 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  What is the cost to set up the house to charge the car?

Telsa and others charge on as little as household 110v. All are (if I understand correctly) 220 capable. An electrician could hook you up for a few hundred. Some will "quick charge" on 440. Again, a couple hundo for the electrician plus the plug. Less than a grand. Probably 2000 to put in one of those GE powerstations

(08-08-2011 12:06 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Telsa and others charge on as little as household 110v. All are (if I understand correctly) 220 capable. An electrician could hook you up for a few hundred. Some will "quick charge" on 440. Again, a couple hundo for the electrician plus the plug. Less than a grand. Probably 2000 to put in one of those GE powerstations

The Tesla S costs up to 77 thousand dollars and the roadsters tend to cost a lot more than that. This is a car for the same people that can afford their own air plane.

These cars are for hobbyist, not the average family (not that the Volt is either).

(08-05-2011 10:31 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Another failed Obabba gov't experiment, highly subsidized by taxpayer money.

Yes.. let's blame Obama for a car that was designed, financed and put into to motion while W. Bush was in office, and the GOP was in complete control. Brilliant.

The concept version was being shown off at car shows back in 2007. That means they must designed the car and planned on putting it into the market when the GOP had power in the presidency, senate and house of representatives.

Unless you believe that Chevy decided to build an electric car, come up with a design of a completely new engine and model of car, financed it, built it and brought it to the showrooms within a year after the Dems took congress, and even then, it's still the Bush presidency, not Obama.