I think the Big East is concentrating on large media markets because of the impending Big East TV network. They need to be able to saturate an area in order to be able to get on the local TV cable offering.
Not saying ECU is not a good football school. They clearly are and have a good fan base but right now the Big East needs to concentrate on media markets. I think personnally Villanova and UCF would be good additions from the media standpoint. ECU is clearly a better football program than Villanova right now but I think the media markets plus the fact that Villanova is a basketball member. UCF would open up an new market in Orlando and would provide another place in Florida where road trips could be combined.

(11-16-2010 12:59 AM)tj_2009 Wrote:  I think the Big East is concentrating on large media markets because of the impending Big East TV network. They need to be able to saturate an area in order to be able to get on the local TV cable offering.
Not saying ECU is not a good football school. They clearly are and have a good fan base but right now the Big East needs to concentrate on media markets. I think personnally Villanova and UCF would be good additions from the media standpoint. ECU is clearly a better football program than Villanova right now but I think the media markets plus the fact that Villanova is a basketball member. UCF would open up an new market in Orlando and would provide another place in Florida where road trips could be combined.

C-USA and the Big East have been based on media markets, where has that gotten us/you?

(11-15-2010 11:46 PM)Goldenbuc Wrote:  There's a lot of attendance talk. Sure it's a factor....but obviously not a huge factor. Otherwise why would Villanova and Temple be in any conversation?

Yep...That seems to be the deal.

(11-16-2010 06:44 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 11:46 PM)Goldenbuc Wrote:  There's a lot of attendance talk. Sure it's a factor....but obviously not a huge factor. Otherwise why would Villanova and Temple be in any conversation?

Yep...That seems to be the deal.

Yes, that is the deal. It is what it is for ECU. We pride ourselves on having a strong football program and a good product that people will watch; even traveling considerable distances to be there in person.

The Big East, unfortunately, does not value the same things. Gameday attendance and game atmosphere don't matter as long as there are millions of people within close proximity to the stadium that could possibly turn their tvs on to watch. Whether they do or not does not matter.

It's frustrating for ECU fans because it seems to fly in the face of reason; but it's the business model that the Big East feels will generate the highest revenue for their teams. They can't be faulted for that.

We'd all do the same in that position.

(11-16-2010 02:17 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  

(11-16-2010 12:59 AM)tj_2009 Wrote:  I think the Big East is concentrating on large media markets because of the impending Big East TV network. They need to be able to saturate an area in order to be able to get on the local TV cable offering.
Not saying ECU is not a good football school. They clearly are and have a good fan base but right now the Big East needs to concentrate on media markets. I think personnally Villanova and UCF would be good additions from the media standpoint. ECU is clearly a better football program than Villanova right now but I think the media markets plus the fact that Villanova is a basketball member. UCF would open up an new market in Orlando and would provide another place in Florida where road trips could be combined.

C-USA and the Big East have been based on media markets, where has that gotten us/you?

That is my question that I have yet to see a good answer for. If markets are really the most important factor then why isn't the BE's TV deal better right now? You are already in larger markets than any other conference in America as is.

(11-15-2010 11:00 PM)Raleighwood Pirate Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 04:47 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-14-2010 09:08 PM)Raleighwood Pirate Wrote:  How about that VT tech game this past weekend? About how many scholarships do you think UNC will lose when the NCAA investigation ends?

1. Virginia Tech played better than Carolina.....it's tough to overcome 6 turnovers.
2. Zero

I must say that is some wishful thinking.

I'm amazed Butch Davis still has a job. I have a feeling he's on very thin ice at the moment, since his former nanny is at the center of one storm in Chapel Hill. There is no way he didn't know that was going on, unless he's a total moron. Of course, if he's a total moron, he has no business being in charge. IMO, he's probably culpable and should be held accountable...

However, this isn't always the case, since our society seems to desire winners at any cost. Why else is Bruce Pearl still in Knoxville?

(11-16-2010 08:12 AM)piratefan1975 Wrote:  It's frustrating for ECU fans because it seems to fly in the face of reason

Let's stop with this quote. EVERY Single professional sports league, and every major college conference gets the majority of their income from TV contracts. So while you say it "flies in the face or reason," it is actually your statement that flies in the face of reason. You go with the money. And with TV, there are three ways a program is worth money to you:

• 1) you are a national draw that draws an audience nationwide either by following or because you are generally a top team
  2) you have a large fanbase that tunes into your games and/or your opponents games religiously
  3) You are near TV households and have the ability to "tax" for money (i.e. cable subscriber fees), or are in a large market that adds value to a television contract.

And not necessarily in that order. No I will say that some of the teams listed for possible inclusion IMO do not meet these criteria even though it is the very reason they are on people's list, but that is the reasoning behind it. The fifth word in number three is key, because the relative on the field strength of the Big East at the time of admission will determine the ability to do this. And while people always say that on the field is not very important, the BE will fidn it is very important as of the dates of negitiation. If we have a 2006 like season around the time we are negotiating, we will be in much better shape than if we are having a year like 2010.

(11-16-2010 08:12 AM)piratefan1975 Wrote:  Gameday attendance and game atmosphere don't matter as long as there are millions of people within close proximity to the stadium that could possibly turn their tvs on to watch. Whether they do or not does not matter.

Now I kept the first part of your statement because in general it tends to go hand in hand with one of the three above. The other thing to keep in mind is that there are quite a few BCS teams that were more or less grandfathered in, but if they were on the outside looking in, may never get an invite. It's sucks, but as we know, life is not fair.

(11-16-2010 11:36 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(11-16-2010 08:12 AM)piratefan1975 Wrote:  It's frustrating for ECU fans because it seems to fly in the face of reason

Let's stop with this quote. EVERY Single professional sports league, and every major college conference gets the majority of their income from TV contracts. So while you say it "flies in the face or reason," it is actually your statement that flies in the face of reason. You go with the money. And with TV, there are three ways a program is worth money to you:

• 1) you are a national draw that draws an audience nationwide either by following or because you are generally a top team
  2) you have a large fanbase that tunes into your games and/or your opponents games religiously
  3) You are near TV households and have the ability to "tax" for money (i.e. cable subscriber fees), or are in a large market that adds value to a television contract.

And not necessarily in that order. No I will say that some of the teams listed for possible inclusion IMO do not meet these criteria even though it is the very reason they are on people's list, but that is the reasoning behind it. The fifth word in number three is key, because the relative on the field strength of the Big East at the time of admission will determine the ability to do this. And while people always say that on the field is not very important, the BE will fidn it is very important as of the dates of negitiation. If we have a 2006 like season around the time we are negotiating, we will be in much better shape than if we are having a year like 2010.

(11-16-2010 08:12 AM)piratefan1975 Wrote:  Gameday attendance and game atmosphere don't matter as long as there are millions of people within close proximity to the stadium that could possibly turn their tvs on to watch. Whether they do or not does not matter.

Now I kept the first part of your statement because in general it tends to go hand in hand with one of the three above. The other thing to keep in mind is that there are quite a few BCS teams that were more or less grandfathered in, but if they were on the outside looking in, may never get an invite. It's sucks, but as we know, life is not fair.

Perhaps you mistook me for disagreeing with you, I'm not sure. You quoted a portion of what I said.

It's frustrating for ECU fans because it seems to fly in the face of reason [/quote]

Maybe you should have quoted the rest when I said

"but it's the business model that the Big East feels will generate the highest revenue for their teams. They can't be faulted for that.

We'd all do the same in that position. "

That goes right along with your #3 above.

(11-15-2010 11:46 PM)Goldenbuc Wrote:  There's a lot of attendance talk. Sure it's a factor....but obviously not a huge factor. Otherwise why would Villanova and Temple be in any conversation?

I can't argue with that. Villanova and their 5-6k a game. Surprisingly I don't think that attendance matters to the BE. Attendance is a reflection of interest from various markets.

The Big 10 network has been fairly successful not because of market but because the number of live events that network carries and the quality of competition. I am starting to believe the entire idea of "markets" is really silly for college sports. SEC = small markets but also equals the highest TV viewership for football. If you put a good product out there and if stadiums are filled to give viewers a great atmosphere for a game, then people will watch, ah la Big East 2007.

I certainly would welcome ECU if you can deliver eastern NC, northern SC & the Tidewater area. I like ECU based on fan support & your location (still in our eastern foot print).

It is fairly certain that ECU can deliver the markets of NC and the Tidewater area of VA to the BE. Would we have the same numbers that UNC or NCSU have in NC? Probably not, but we would be A LOT closer than some may think. The same can be said for the Tidewater; VPI will always "win" there but we would deliver a sizable chunk of viewers. I am unsure about SC simply because I have never seen any numbers on the region.

ECU did a study back when Hamrick was AD; it showed that more than 80% of ECU's fans traveled more than 300 miles round trip to make home football games. That's a pretty big number when you think of all of the fans who would watch it on TV instead of making the game. Keep in mind that our attendance has always been really good, even during the God-Awful JT years. I can tell you that many of the local sports bars in the Triangle carry ECU home games and have VERY good crowds. I've seen it in person. Go to High Park in Raleigh during a home game if you don't believe me; the place will be packed with ECU fans who are unable to make the home game and we will still sell out our stadium or come really close to it. 49K+ per game, in a large-area county that has less than 200K people in it is a big indicator regarding the market that we bring.

The numbers back me up on this. ECU has significant market share in NC, more so than TCU has in DFW or Texas (maybe not the past two years but in general, yes, we have more viewers in NC than TCU does in Texas). The same thing can be said for UCF in Orlando. We "control" out markets better than UCF does.

What we have to do is get people out of the mindset that ECU is only a Down East team. ECU has large fan bases in Charlotte (more than UNC-Charlotte has at least), The Triangle, The Triad, Fayetteville and in Wilmington as well. The only area of the state that we have trouble in is the mountain region in and around Asheville... that is dominated by UNC and to a large degree, Tennesee/Georgia/SC. State does well there too I would think.

Does this matter to advertisers? It may, especially in the "new age of advertising" that is coming about in this economy. I've sold in this economy and I can tell you, things have changed and companies are changing the way they advertise... it tends to be much more targeted than it was in the past and companies are without a doubt tracking their advertising dollar results much, much more closely. Basically, they are not so willing to simply throw money into something unless they can truly get a measurable return and track where their sales are coming from. In the past, it seemed to me that they were spending money "hoping" to get something out of it. They do not do that any more. Now, they are more attuned to measurable returns and knowing exactly where they get their sales from.

(11-16-2010 10:57 PM)MiamiBull2 Wrote:  The Big 10 network has been fairly successful not because of market but because the number of live events that network carries and the quality of competition.

The Big Ten Network makes 80-90% of its money from cable subsciber fees. That is the very definition of kaing money due to market size.

(11-16-2010 10:57 PM)MiamiBull2 Wrote:  I am starting to believe the entire idea of "markets" is really silly for college sports. SEC = small markets but also equals the highest TV viewership for football.

The SEC has a different marketing approach. Their contracts are purely national TV contracts, and they were paid extra to keep them from starting their own network. ESPN NEEDS all of these conferences and their games, otherwise ESPN2 dissappears from basic cable in many areas (or has a severe fee reduction), and ESPNU gets bumped up another tier. So they paid extra to ensure that did not happen.

(11-17-2010 10:29 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(11-16-2010 10:57 PM)MiamiBull2 Wrote:  The Big 10 network has been fairly successful not because of market but because the number of live events that network carries and the quality of competition.

The Big Ten Network makes 80-90% of its money from cable subsciber fees. That is the very definition of kaing money due to market size.

Ding...

Its not rocket science as to why the Big Ten is now rolling in the dough...as its been noted probably 30-40 times on this site and others...its almost ALL because of their market penetration of their own network into cable and satellite systems.

(11-16-2010 11:10 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 11:00 PM)Raleighwood Pirate Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 04:47 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-14-2010 09:08 PM)Raleighwood Pirate Wrote:  How about that VT tech game this past weekend? About how many scholarships do you think UNC will lose when the NCAA investigation ends?

1. Virginia Tech played better than Carolina.....it's tough to overcome 6 turnovers.
2. Zero

I must say that is some wishful thinking.

I'm amazed Butch Davis still has a job. I have a feeling he's on very thin ice at the moment, since his former nanny is at the center of one storm in Chapel Hill. There is no way he didn't know that was going on, unless he's a total moron. Of course, if he's a total moron, he has no business being in charge. IMO, he's probably culpable and should be held accountable...

However, this isn't always the case, since our society seems to desire winners at any cost. Why else is Bruce Pearl still in Knoxville?

I am with you on this Bit.

(11-17-2010 10:29 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(11-16-2010 10:57 PM)MiamiBull2 Wrote:  The Big 10 network has been fairly successful not because of market but because the number of live events that network carries and the quality of competition.

The Big Ten Network makes 80-90% of its money from cable subsciber fees. That is the very definition of kaing money due to market size.

(11-16-2010 10:57 PM)MiamiBull2 Wrote:  I am starting to believe the entire idea of "markets" is really silly for college sports. SEC = small markets but also equals the highest TV viewership for football.

The SEC has a different marketing approach. Their contracts are purely national TV contracts, and they were paid extra to keep them from starting their own network. ESPN NEEDS all of these conferences and their games, otherwise ESPN2 dissappears from basic cable in many areas (or has a severe fee reduction), and ESPNU gets bumped up another tier. So they paid extra to ensure that did not happen.

And that's why the Big East Network WILL be successful. The Big East and Tagliabue have their research. Some people think it won't be successful but it will be. It will be very successful and expansion is geared towards it as well as TV deals. The ESPN/TV deal needs Philadelphia and TCU, and the Big East Network we could give them our current markets along with Philly, Orlando and Texas. It's about get hot and heavy people!

(11-16-2010 05:36 PM)Raleighwood Pirate Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 11:46 PM)Goldenbuc Wrote:  There's a lot of attendance talk. Sure it's a factor....but obviously not a huge factor. Otherwise why would Villanova and Temple be in any conversation?

I can't argue with that. Villanova and their 5-6k a game. Surprisingly I don't think that attendance matters to the BE. Attendance is a reflection of interest from various markets.

People can knock their attendance, and considering they're Division I-AA or FCS or whatever, knocking attendance is silly, but the bottomline is that this is about markets. Perception is reality and when ESPN sees a Philly market they see potential there. They also know that a team like West Virginia going to Philly means crowds will come and they can promote a huge market like that. ECU's fans are impressive but the bottomline is that ECU doesn't offer a market that the Big East can sell to ESPN. They offer a market that ESPN sees as ACC country and considering they just gave the ACC a 1+ billion dollar deal they're not going to want to encroach into their territory.

(11-17-2010 10:18 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  

(11-16-2010 05:36 PM)Raleighwood Pirate Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 11:46 PM)Goldenbuc Wrote:  There's a lot of attendance talk. Sure it's a factor....but obviously not a huge factor. Otherwise why would Villanova and Temple be in any conversation?

I can't argue with that. Villanova and their 5-6k a game. Surprisingly I don't think that attendance matters to the BE. Attendance is a reflection of interest from various markets.

People can knock their attendance, and considering they're Division I-AA or FCS or whatever, knocking attendance is silly, but the bottomline is that this is about markets. Perception is reality and when ESPN sees a Philly market they see potential there. They also know that a team like West Virginia going to Philly means crowds will come and they can promote a huge market like that. ECU's fans are impressive but the bottomline is that ECU doesn't offer a market that the Big East can sell to ESPN. They offer a market that ESPN sees as ACC country and considering they just gave the ACC a 1+ billion dollar deal they're not going to want to encroach into their territory.

How can you say that, we were the 2nd school that had their OWN National TV contract. ND had the other and that was in the 90ties. Our's was with ESPN by the way.

(11-17-2010 10:57 PM)whitey Wrote:  

(11-17-2010 10:18 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  

(11-16-2010 05:36 PM)Raleighwood Pirate Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 11:46 PM)Goldenbuc Wrote:  There's a lot of attendance talk. Sure it's a factor....but obviously not a huge factor. Otherwise why would Villanova and Temple be in any conversation?

I can't argue with that. Villanova and their 5-6k a game. Surprisingly I don't think that attendance matters to the BE. Attendance is a reflection of interest from various markets.

People can knock their attendance, and considering they're Division I-AA or FCS or whatever, knocking attendance is silly, but the bottomline is that this is about markets. Perception is reality and when ESPN sees a Philly market they see potential there. They also know that a team like West Virginia going to Philly means crowds will come and they can promote a huge market like that. ECU's fans are impressive but the bottomline is that ECU doesn't offer a market that the Big East can sell to ESPN. They offer a market that ESPN sees as ACC country and considering they just gave the ACC a 1+ billion dollar deal they're not going to want to encroach into their territory.

How can you say that, we were the 2nd school that had their OWN National TV contract. ND had the other and that was in the 90ties. Our's was with ESPN by the way.

Don't argue with me I'm just telling you what I think is going on. The bottomline is that this is a completely different time. ESPN didn't have the money invested then that they do now in the ACC. The Big East and ESPN might think that it's a waste of time to bring in a school that encroaches into a conference built on the Carolinas. I'm not sure that's just a guess on my part.

(11-17-2010 11:16 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  

(11-17-2010 10:57 PM)whitey Wrote:  

(11-17-2010 10:18 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  

(11-16-2010 05:36 PM)Raleighwood Pirate Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 11:46 PM)Goldenbuc Wrote:  There's a lot of attendance talk. Sure it's a factor....but obviously not a huge factor. Otherwise why would Villanova and Temple be in any conversation?

I can't argue with that. Villanova and their 5-6k a game. Surprisingly I don't think that attendance matters to the BE. Attendance is a reflection of interest from various markets.

People can knock their attendance, and considering they're Division I-AA or FCS or whatever, knocking attendance is silly, but the bottomline is that this is about markets. Perception is reality and when ESPN sees a Philly market they see potential there. They also know that a team like West Virginia going to Philly means crowds will come and they can promote a huge market like that. ECU's fans are impressive but the bottomline is that ECU doesn't offer a market that the Big East can sell to ESPN. They offer a market that ESPN sees as ACC country and considering they just gave the ACC a 1+ billion dollar deal they're not going to want to encroach into their territory.

How can you say that, we were the 2nd school that had their OWN National TV contract. ND had the other and that was in the 90ties. Our's was with ESPN by the way.

Don't argue with me I'm just telling you what I think is going on. The bottomline is that this is a completely different time. ESPN didn't have the money invested then that they do now in the ACC. The Big East and ESPN might think that it's a waste of time to bring in a school that encroaches into a conference built on the Carolinas. I'm not sure that's just a guess on my part.

I won't argue that and I bet you are on to something.