I know what you're saying. I would hope that other teams have interest in Ruff. That would mean we've continued our winning ways. I'm not naive enough to think that any coach could not be lured away for the right amount of money.

I knew when Skip was hired, that if we kept him for 5 years, we'd be doing well. He never hid his intentions to leave and to parlay success at East Carolina into a more lucrative job at a BCS school. He's a Holtz. He learned well from his father. I think most ECU fans felt the same way.

Ruffin McNeil is from eastern North Carolina, played ball at East Carolina and has deep family roots here. Ruffin is as genuine as they come; especially in the coaching profession. I feel that Ruffin feels that he's finally home. He's enjoying time with his father; who comes to the games. I get a sense with Ruff that his coaching career has come full circle and he's content with his journey and happy that it's brought him home to where he's always wanted to be. He is loved by our fan base and he, in turn, has reciprocated his love for us and ECU. I truely believe that Ruff will build off of the good foundation that Skip left; but this is his program now. He will take us to heights that Skip could not.

Again, all things were stacked against ECU...rebuilding year, lost Skip, new coaching staff, graduated 30 seniors and lost 1 junior early to NFL, youngest team in FBS football, horrible economy with season ticket sales down over much of the country, etc.

If this is our down year, I'll take it.

(11-13-2010 04:27 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  And we can't simply ignore the fact that Wake Forest, Duke, & Appalachian State all compete in the same state. We can't act as if they don't exist. Those 3 combined for over 80,000 fans per game last year. They represent a significant drain on fan interest in the same state.

You must also remember that Wake & Duke are private schools. It is much harder for the local populace to get behind a private school than a state school because it is very hard to get into and pay the tuition for being in a private school, so there is very little incentive for the locals to get behind the school at all. There are three exceptions though and those are as follows: Notre Dame (South Bend has adopted the Irish as their team a long time ago), Southern California, and Brigham Young. Those three private schools have somehow managed to reach out to the locals and cultivated a substantial fanbase among them in addition to their alumni. Neither Wake nor Duke have shown that they can be anything remotely like the above, although they are trying. IMO, Wake and Duke are more like Miami who'd like to have a local fanbase, but don't (doesn't ?)have one.

(11-15-2010 02:07 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(11-13-2010 04:27 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  And we can't simply ignore the fact that Wake Forest, Duke, & Appalachian State all compete in the same state. We can't act as if they don't exist. Those 3 combined for over 80,000 fans per game last year. They represent a significant drain on fan interest in the same state.

You must also remember that Wake & Duke are private schools. It is much harder for the local populace to get behind a private school than a state school because it is very hard to get into and pay the tuition for being in a private school, so there is very little incentive for the locals to get behind the school at all. There are three exceptions though and those are as follows: Notre Dame (South Bend has adopted the Irish as their team a long time ago), Southern California, and Brigham Young. Those three private schools have somehow managed to reach out to the locals and cultivated a substantial fanbase among them in addition to their alumni. Neither Wake nor Duke have shown that they can be anything remotely like the above, although they are trying. IMO, Wake and Duke are more like Miami who'd like to have a local fanbase, but don't (doesn't ?)have one.

The majority of Duke students come from other parts of the world and very few are from North Carolina. When the graduate most move out of state and don't make it back down for FB games. Duke's Basketball is as good as it gets anywhere and their arena only holds about 8,700 fans. Most of those fans on game day are students that camp out.

Duke FB has no following in NC.

(11-14-2010 03:40 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  I honestly believe that if they didn't have the stigma of a directional school name and instead was something more traditional like "North Carolina Tech" then they would already be BCS.

I say this all the time. Louisville would have a far easier time securing fans outside of the city if the school was named "Kentucky Tech" or whatever. The luckiest thing to ever happen to the Hokies was being named Virginia Tech instead of Blacksburg Tech. I'm sure Georgia Tech gets a boost from not being the University of Atlanta.

(11-15-2010 03:57 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  I say this all the time. Louisville would have a far easier time securing fans outside of the city if the school was named "Kentucky Tech" or whatever. The luckiest thing to ever happen to the Hokies was being named Virginia Tech instead of Blacksburg Tech. I'm sure Georgia Tech gets a boost from not being the University of Atlanta.

+1.

It is amazing to me how much a name can mean to t-shirt fans. I don't know how many times I've talked to UK fans who root for UK simply because "they are the state school and represent the state".

(11-15-2010 03:57 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  

(11-14-2010 03:40 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  I honestly believe that if they didn't have the stigma of a directional school name and instead was something more traditional like "North Carolina Tech" then they would already be BCS.

I say this all the time. Louisville would have a far easier time securing fans outside of the city if the school was named "Kentucky Tech" or whatever. The luckiest thing to ever happen to the Hokies was being named Virginia Tech instead of Blacksburg Tech. I'm sure Georgia Tech gets a boost from not being the University of Atlanta.

So, are we good since we have Carolina in our name...or did we screw up by not naming the school East North Carolina?

(11-15-2010 04:17 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 03:57 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  

(11-14-2010 03:40 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  I honestly believe that if they didn't have the stigma of a directional school name and instead was something more traditional like "North Carolina Tech" then they would already be BCS.

I say this all the time. Louisville would have a far easier time securing fans outside of the city if the school was named "Kentucky Tech" or whatever. The luckiest thing to ever happen to the Hokies was being named Virginia Tech instead of Blacksburg Tech. I'm sure Georgia Tech gets a boost from not being the University of Atlanta.

So, are we good since we have Carolina in our name...or did we screw up by not naming the school East North Carolina?

No I think he is saying that right or wrong we are pigeonholed as a directional university because we go by East Carolina instead of NC Tech or whatever else we could have picked. I think we are doing our best to fight the stigma, and show that we really do have market share all over the state, but if the BE doesn't see it that's their problem.

(11-15-2010 02:07 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(11-13-2010 04:27 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  And we can't simply ignore the fact that Wake Forest, Duke, & Appalachian State all compete in the same state. We can't act as if they don't exist. Those 3 combined for over 80,000 fans per game last year. They represent a significant drain on fan interest in the same state.

You must also remember that Wake & Duke are private schools. It is much harder for the local populace to get behind a private school than a state school because it is very hard to get into and pay the tuition for being in a private school, so there is very little incentive for the locals to get behind the school at all. There are three exceptions though and those are as follows: Notre Dame (South Bend has adopted the Irish as their team a long time ago), Southern California, and Brigham Young. Those three private schools have somehow managed to reach out to the locals and cultivated a substantial fanbase among them in addition to their alumni. Neither Wake nor Duke have shown that they can be anything remotely like the above, although they are trying. IMO, Wake and Duke are more like Miami who'd like to have a local fanbase, but don't (doesn't ?)have one.

Dawg, good stuff - it should be noted that anyone that who attempts to use Wake, Duke and App State for football (especially attendance/support) comparisons in the State of NC is simply screaming at the top of their lungs that they know absolutely NOTHING about football in the State of NC......the fact that this poster chose to do so made his observations/opinions on the subject completely worthless.....

(11-14-2010 09:08 PM)Raleighwood Pirate Wrote:  

(11-14-2010 02:12 PM)esayem Wrote:  Pretty sure Navy thoroughly proved they run the tidewater hahaha

How about that VT tech game this past weekend? About how many scholarships do you think UNC will lose when the NCAA investigation ends?

1. Virginia Tech played better than Carolina.....it's tough to overcome 6 turnovers.
2. Zero

(11-15-2010 04:39 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 04:17 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 03:57 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  

(11-14-2010 03:40 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  I honestly believe that if they didn't have the stigma of a directional school name and instead was something more traditional like "North Carolina Tech" then they would already be BCS.

I say this all the time. Louisville would have a far easier time securing fans outside of the city if the school was named "Kentucky Tech" or whatever. The luckiest thing to ever happen to the Hokies was being named Virginia Tech instead of Blacksburg Tech. I'm sure Georgia Tech gets a boost from not being the University of Atlanta.

So, are we good since we have Carolina in our name...or did we screw up by not naming the school East North Carolina?

No I think he is saying that right or wrong we are pigeonholed as a directional university because we go by East Carolina instead of NC Tech or whatever else we could have picked. I think we are doing our best to fight the stigma, and show that we really do have market share all over the state, but if the BE doesn't see it that's their problem.

Guess UCF made a mistake not going with Florida Tech? Wasn't that one of their original names or choice of names?

(11-15-2010 04:56 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 04:39 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 04:17 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 03:57 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  

(11-14-2010 03:40 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  I honestly believe that if they didn't have the stigma of a directional school name and instead was something more traditional like "North Carolina Tech" then they would already be BCS.

I say this all the time. Louisville would have a far easier time securing fans outside of the city if the school was named "Kentucky Tech" or whatever. The luckiest thing to ever happen to the Hokies was being named Virginia Tech instead of Blacksburg Tech. I'm sure Georgia Tech gets a boost from not being the University of Atlanta.

So, are we good since we have Carolina in our name...or did we screw up by not naming the school East North Carolina?

No I think he is saying that right or wrong we are pigeonholed as a directional university because we go by East Carolina instead of NC Tech or whatever else we could have picked. I think we are doing our best to fight the stigma, and show that we really do have market share all over the state, but if the BE doesn't see it that's their problem.

Guess UCF made a mistake not going with Florida Tech? Wasn't that one of their original names or choice of names?

there is a a Florida Tech

(11-15-2010 04:56 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 04:39 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 04:17 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 03:57 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  

(11-14-2010 03:40 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  I honestly believe that if they didn't have the stigma of a directional school name and instead was something more traditional like "North Carolina Tech" then they would already be BCS.

I say this all the time. Louisville would have a far easier time securing fans outside of the city if the school was named "Kentucky Tech" or whatever. The luckiest thing to ever happen to the Hokies was being named Virginia Tech instead of Blacksburg Tech. I'm sure Georgia Tech gets a boost from not being the University of Atlanta.

So, are we good since we have Carolina in our name...or did we screw up by not naming the school East North Carolina?

No I think he is saying that right or wrong we are pigeonholed as a directional university because we go by East Carolina instead of NC Tech or whatever else we could have picked. I think we are doing our best to fight the stigma, and show that we really do have market share all over the state, but if the BE doesn't see it that's their problem.

Guess UCF made a mistake not going with Florida Tech? Wasn't that one of their original names or choice of names?

How bout Northeastern Carolina University?

(11-15-2010 04:45 PM)Capital Pirate Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 02:07 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(11-13-2010 04:27 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  And we can't simply ignore the fact that Wake Forest, Duke, & Appalachian State all compete in the same state. We can't act as if they don't exist. Those 3 combined for over 80,000 fans per game last year. They represent a significant drain on fan interest in the same state.

You must also remember that Wake & Duke are private schools. It is much harder for the local populace to get behind a private school than a state school because it is very hard to get into and pay the tuition for being in a private school, so there is very little incentive for the locals to get behind the school at all. There are three exceptions though and those are as follows: Notre Dame (South Bend has adopted the Irish as their team a long time ago), Southern California, and Brigham Young. Those three private schools have somehow managed to reach out to the locals and cultivated a substantial fanbase among them in addition to their alumni. Neither Wake nor Duke have shown that they can be anything remotely like the above, although they are trying. IMO, Wake and Duke are more like Miami who'd like to have a local fanbase, but don't (doesn't ?)have one.

Dawg, good stuff - it should be noted that anyone that who attempts to use Wake, Duke and App State for football (especially attendance/support) comparisons in the State of NC is simply screaming at the top of their lungs that they know absolutely NOTHING about football in the State of NC......the fact that this poster chose to do so made his observations/opinions on the subject completely worthless.....

I submit that NC is much more of a FB state than people realize. With 4 public schools in the UNC system and the 2 privates...that comes to close to a 1/4 of a million people attending games on Saturdays...UNCC is also going to have an impact. Granted Duke and Wake are private and somewhat limit growth...but...the UNC system schools all are growing. The suggestion that NC is somehow over saturated today is simply not true in regard to fan bases. I can't speak to TV or recruiting in this regard.

(11-15-2010 05:07 PM)thecomet89 Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 04:56 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 04:39 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 04:17 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 03:57 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  I say this all the time. Louisville would have a far easier time securing fans outside of the city if the school was named "Kentucky Tech" or whatever. The luckiest thing to ever happen to the Hokies was being named Virginia Tech instead of Blacksburg Tech. I'm sure Georgia Tech gets a boost from not being the University of Atlanta.

So, are we good since we have Carolina in our name...or did we screw up by not naming the school East North Carolina?

No I think he is saying that right or wrong we are pigeonholed as a directional university because we go by East Carolina instead of NC Tech or whatever else we could have picked. I think we are doing our best to fight the stigma, and show that we really do have market share all over the state, but if the BE doesn't see it that's their problem.

Guess UCF made a mistake not going with Florida Tech? Wasn't that one of their original names or choice of names?

How bout Northeastern Carolina University?

I always get a kick out of our in state rivals that love to use ECTC(East Carolina Teachers College) as what they think is a put down. Since both of my parents were students when it was ECTC...I take it as a compliment. We were founded as a normal school and that mission still is ongoing today. I have always kind of liked the ring of ECTC..

Bill, got to jump in here, you said that ECU hasn't shown much. Question, Have you not looked at our record going back to the 70s, we are also working on our 5th straight winning season and our 5th straight bowl game, we won back2back conference championships, and aren't completely out of it this year, though UCF has the tiebreaker over us, this after losing 28 seniors and 1 junior (NFL draft), hired a new coaching staff, installed a new offense and defense, and the new coaches had only weeks to lock down as many recuits as possible before national signing day. All of this and we're still in the race for the east div. and bowl elgible. Others have posted our best records going back to 91 when we where 11-1 and finished ranked 9th, that year we weren't even in a conference. That year we beat VT(@ lane), Pitt(@DFS), Syracuse(@ NY & ranked at the time), NCSU in the Peach Bowl.

We just added 7,000 new seats and still 4 of the 5 home games so far have sold out Tusla, NCSU, Marshall, and Navy, Memphis was the only non-sell out at 48,000+. BTW, our attendance is 2nd best of ALL non-bcs aq school, better than TCU, UCF, Houston, Boise State, Utah, ect. only BYU has better attendance.

(11-14-2010 02:41 AM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  

(11-13-2010 05:29 PM)whitey Wrote:  

(11-13-2010 04:44 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  

(11-13-2010 04:36 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  

Quote:If they're truly a basketball state, then they don't desperately want football.

Obviously you're wrong because Louisville, Kentucky, North Carolina, NC State, and East Carolina pumped huge money into their football programs in hopes of grabbing a fanbase that wanted to root for football. And they were proven right with the huge crowds these schools are suddenly getting. It's possible to be a one sport state/town but want something else. Cincinnati is a baseball town but they desperately wanted a quality NFL football team to root for again. So you're telling me that a baseball town like Cincinnati doesn't desperately want to have football as well?

Nope. I said nothing about Cincinnati.

What I'm telling you is that the state is saturated with too many programs all competing for the state's fans. You want to have 5 BCS programs in a state half the size of Florida & 40% the size of Texas - both of which have only 4 BCS programs despite being football crazy states. It ain't going to happen & no one at the Big East is going to invest in a program in that state that hasn't yet proven that it can compete at this level. If ECU had the level of success of TCU, Utah, Boise State, or Louisville (pre-BE), it would be a different story.

Before you state what you don't know. CC is right. NC wants a to root for a successful FB team. NCst & Unc-ch are basketball schools & for years never could get the FB going. We have added 7000 seat & they're sold the minute they were put in. If WE get AQ & we would take the FB fans over night. You would be surprised at how many ppl in this State hates NCst & Unc but they are from up north or they are military & have their home school they pull for. Do you know we do control eastern NC in football especially the military population. We have 2 million ppl within 1 1/2 hrs from us, equal to most cities. Duke & Wake can't even get their fans to go to a FB game. ECU sale the third most FB merchandise in the State. Also this opens up recruiting for BE teams in a pretty strong recruiting base, Va, NC & northern SC. Trust me there are more pluses than minuse, choosing us.

Duke & wake combined for 58,000 fans last year. It's simply wrong to say nobody goes to their games. Those are college fans that aren't available to you guys.

You simply haven't addressed the basic question. Why will you guys succeed at the BCS level when UNC & State have not?

Call them basketball schools if you want but that doesn't mean that they're not competing in football, that they don't have resources, & that they don't have facilities. Plenty of basketball schools also succeed in football. There's no rule that a school can't be successful in both.

You don't read the numbers from Wake and Duke and assume those represent their fans do you? Their stadiums are usually dominated by the visiting team fans. Go to Wallace Wade on any given Saturday. Duke's numbers this season are skewed by the Alabama fans that bought their season ticket packages so they'd be able to attend the game. Duke and Wake are not pulling those numbers you cite.

(11-15-2010 09:32 PM)ultraviolet Wrote:  

(11-14-2010 02:41 AM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  

(11-13-2010 05:29 PM)whitey Wrote:  

(11-13-2010 04:44 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  

(11-13-2010 04:36 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  Obviously you're wrong because Louisville, Kentucky, North Carolina, NC State, and East Carolina pumped huge money into their football programs in hopes of grabbing a fanbase that wanted to root for football. And they were proven right with the huge crowds these schools are suddenly getting. It's possible to be a one sport state/town but want something else. Cincinnati is a baseball town but they desperately wanted a quality NFL football team to root for again. So you're telling me that a baseball town like Cincinnati doesn't desperately want to have football as well?

Nope. I said nothing about Cincinnati.

What I'm telling you is that the state is saturated with too many programs all competing for the state's fans. You want to have 5 BCS programs in a state half the size of Florida & 40% the size of Texas - both of which have only 4 BCS programs despite being football crazy states. It ain't going to happen & no one at the Big East is going to invest in a program in that state that hasn't yet proven that it can compete at this level. If ECU had the level of success of TCU, Utah, Boise State, or Louisville (pre-BE), it would be a different story.

Before you state what you don't know. CC is right. NC wants a to root for a successful FB team. NCst & Unc-ch are basketball schools & for years never could get the FB going. We have added 7000 seat & they're sold the minute they were put in. If WE get AQ & we would take the FB fans over night. You would be surprised at how many ppl in this State hates NCst & Unc but they are from up north or they are military & have their home school they pull for. Do you know we do control eastern NC in football especially the military population. We have 2 million ppl within 1 1/2 hrs from us, equal to most cities. Duke & Wake can't even get their fans to go to a FB game. ECU sale the third most FB merchandise in the State. Also this opens up recruiting for BE teams in a pretty strong recruiting base, Va, NC & northern SC. Trust me there are more pluses than minuse, choosing us.

Duke & wake combined for 58,000 fans last year. It's simply wrong to say nobody goes to their games. Those are college fans that aren't available to you guys.

You simply haven't addressed the basic question. Why will you guys succeed at the BCS level when UNC & State have not?

Call them basketball schools if you want but that doesn't mean that they're not competing in football, that they don't have resources, & that they don't have facilities. Plenty of basketball schools also succeed in football. There's no rule that a school can't be successful in both.

You don't read the numbers from Wake and Duke and assume those represent their fans do you? Their stadiums are usually dominated by the visiting team fans. Go to Wallace Wade on any given Saturday. Duke's numbers this season are skewed by the Alabama fans that bought their season ticket packages so they'd be able to attend the game. Duke and Wake are not pulling those numbers you cite.

I'm curious as to what Mr. Marsh considers BCS success and what would make him think that ECU is not as capable of that success? Is he is trying to somehow suggest that ECU's success is somehow tied to the other programs in NC? If so...I'd like to hear an explanation.

(11-15-2010 04:47 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-14-2010 09:08 PM)Raleighwood Pirate Wrote:  

(11-14-2010 02:12 PM)esayem Wrote:  Pretty sure Navy thoroughly proved they run the tidewater hahaha

How about that VT tech game this past weekend? About how many scholarships do you think UNC will lose when the NCAA investigation ends?

1. Virginia Tech played better than Carolina.....it's tough to overcome 6 turnovers.
2. Zero

I must say that is some wishful thinking.

(11-15-2010 05:17 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 04:45 PM)Capital Pirate Wrote:  

(11-15-2010 02:07 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(11-13-2010 04:27 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  And we can't simply ignore the fact that Wake Forest, Duke, & Appalachian State all compete in the same state. We can't act as if they don't exist. Those 3 combined for over 80,000 fans per game last year. They represent a significant drain on fan interest in the same state.

You must also remember that Wake & Duke are private schools. It is much harder for the local populace to get behind a private school than a state school because it is very hard to get into and pay the tuition for being in a private school, so there is very little incentive for the locals to get behind the school at all. There are three exceptions though and those are as follows: Notre Dame (South Bend has adopted the Irish as their team a long time ago), Southern California, and Brigham Young. Those three private schools have somehow managed to reach out to the locals and cultivated a substantial fanbase among them in addition to their alumni. Neither Wake nor Duke have shown that they can be anything remotely like the above, although they are trying. IMO, Wake and Duke are more like Miami who'd like to have a local fanbase, but don't (doesn't ?)have one.

Dawg, good stuff - it should be noted that anyone that who attempts to use Wake, Duke and App State for football (especially attendance/support) comparisons in the State of NC is simply screaming at the top of their lungs that they know absolutely NOTHING about football in the State of NC......the fact that this poster chose to do so made his observations/opinions on the subject completely worthless.....

I submit that NC is much more of a FB state than people realize. With 4 public schools in the UNC system and the 2 privates...that comes to close to a 1/4 of a million people attending games on Saturdays...UNCC is also going to have an impact. Granted Duke and Wake are private and somewhat limit growth...but...the UNC system schools all are growing. The suggestion that NC is somehow over saturated today is simply not true in regard to fan bases. I can't speak to TV or recruiting in this regard.

I actually make the arguement that NC is now a football state. Yes the tradition in North Carolina is all basketball. However over the last 15 years things have dramatically changed. AAU/prep schools have ruined high school hoops, early defections to the NBA draft have hurt college hoops (even UNC/Duke has had down years), and we've also added the Carolina Panthers.

UNC is hoops first, but draws well for football
Duke is hoops first
NCSU's tradition is in hoops, but in my mind is really more of a football school
App St football
ECU football
WF hoops, but football has grown on them

The HS talent seems more and more driven to football over the years. I don't know but I get the feeling with every passing year things are going more and more to football.

The strength of NC hoops historically isn't just the elite schools, it's the depth. We have had 6 schools UNC, Duke, NCSU, WF, Davidson, and Charlotte make Final 4's

There's a lot of attendance talk. Sure it's a factor....but obviously not a huge factor. Otherwise why would Villanova and Temple be in any conversation?