(01-28-2010 10:38 AM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  This should be a lesson to all of us that wanted a coach with ties to the school. Ramsey was the poplur chice by most of us. We were blind to the fact that recruiting and coaching ability mean much, much more.

i agree to a point, but how many of us, as fans, would know if he had good coaching ability? it would take a former player or head coach above him to know whether he had coaching acumen.

we saw him as a local guy who coached under respected coaches, and hired other respected locals as assistants. All the pieces were there to recruit extremely well in state.

i don't regret supporting it at the time, but i definitely have bad feelings about how it turned out.

Too much micromanaging of the team while they're on the court, and no local recruiting to speak of.

MSU makes you wonder Garland, Stephens and Montgomery. I think Montgomery has interviewed for EMU before and has interviewed for many Div I openings. Stephens I don't know well. Garland wasn't he at Cleveland State?

(01-28-2010 01:23 PM)EMUAARON Wrote:  

(01-28-2010 10:38 AM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  This should be a lesson to all of us that wanted a coach with ties to the school. Ramsey was the poplur chice by most of us. We were blind to the fact that recruiting and coaching ability mean much, much more.

i agree to a point, but how many of us, as fans, would know if he had good coaching ability? it would take a former player or head coach above him to know whether he had coaching acumen.

we saw him as a local guy who coached under respected coaches, and hired other respected locals as assistants. All the pieces were there to recruit extremely well in state.

i don't regret supporting it at the time, but i definitely have bad feelings about how it turned out.

Too much micromanaging of the team while they're on the court, and no local recruiting to speak of.

Let me add to my thought. Ramsey was the popular choice amongst most fans. My theory is that Diles new this so he hired him as a way of making ammends with the EMU folks he had p*ssed off with nearly every other decision he made at EMU. Diles was also looking for a job himself so he probably didn't do his homework on this hire.

Again, this is my opinion.

FWIW ... here are my thoughts on what EMU needs to look at, at least in general terms and this would apply to both football and hoops.

We become too enamored with assistants at major programs. The problem, especially in football and to a lesser degree in hoops, is that these coaches are not used to dealing with a program that does not have endless resources and when calling on a recruit, does not have to explain about the school. In other words, a coach at Mich can call on a recruit and the recruit instantly listens because it is a well-known entity.

On the other hand, I think where EMU needs to look is at head coaches who have been successful at the so-called mid-major or lower level. They have shown they know how to recruit, have put together a winning program on a tight budget and limited facilities. I think such a candidate would come in with reasonable expectations and a genuine understanding of how to build a winner with less than a winning hand to start.

(01-28-2010 01:47 PM)HuronDave Wrote:  FWIW ... here are my thoughts on what EMU needs to look at, at least in general terms and this would apply to both football and hoops.

We become too enamored with assistants at major programs. The problem, especially in football and to a lesser degree in hoops, is that these coaches are not used to dealing with a program that does not have endless resources and when calling on a recruit, does not have to explain about the school. In other words, a coach at Mich can call on a recruit and the recruit instantly listens because it is a well-known entity.

On the other hand, I think where EMU needs to look is at head coaches who have been successful at the so-called mid-major or lower level. They have shown they know how to recruit, have put together a winning program on a tight budget and limited facilities. I think such a candidate would come in with reasonable expectations and a genuine understanding of how to build a winner with less than a winning hand to start.

Jim Boone.

(sorry guys that was a fat pitch right down the middle of the plate)

(01-28-2010 03:52 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(01-28-2010 01:47 PM)HuronDave Wrote:  FWIW ... here are my thoughts on what EMU needs to look at, at least in general terms and this would apply to both football and hoops.

We become too enamored with assistants at major programs. The problem, especially in football and to a lesser degree in hoops, is that these coaches are not used to dealing with a program that does not have endless resources and when calling on a recruit, does not have to explain about the school. In other words, a coach at Mich can call on a recruit and the recruit instantly listens because it is a well-known entity.

On the other hand, I think where EMU needs to look is at head coaches who have been successful at the so-called mid-major or lower level. They have shown they know how to recruit, have put together a winning program on a tight budget and limited facilities. I think such a candidate would come in with reasonable expectations and a genuine understanding of how to build a winner with less than a winning hand to start.

Jim Boone.

(sorry guys that was a fat pitch right down the middle of the plate)

LOL. Dave left out two details. 1) The coach must be the right fit for EMU. 2) Local connections are preferred but not required.

Other than that I agree completely. A career assistant is an assistant for a reason.

(01-28-2010 11:10 AM)emu79 Wrote:  I heard the last half of the game last night and couldn't believe the length of time it took EMU to get a shot off and also the lack of defense that allowed Bowling Green to come back and win.

Anyone have any names they want to throw out for consideration?

In reallity the defense was fine it was the offense that sucked.

(01-28-2010 01:46 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  

(01-28-2010 01:23 PM)EMUAARON Wrote:  

(01-28-2010 10:38 AM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  This should be a lesson to all of us that wanted a coach with ties to the school. Ramsey was the poplur chice by most of us. We were blind to the fact that recruiting and coaching ability mean much, much more.

i agree to a point, but how many of us, as fans, would know if he had good coaching ability? it would take a former player or head coach above him to know whether he had coaching acumen.

we saw him as a local guy who coached under respected coaches, and hired other respected locals as assistants. All the pieces were there to recruit extremely well in state.

i don't regret supporting it at the time, but i definitely have bad feelings about how it turned out.

Too much micromanaging of the team while they're on the court, and no local recruiting to speak of.

Let me add to my thought. Ramsey was the popular choice amongst most fans. My theory is that Diles new this so he hired him as a way of making ammends with the EMU folks he had p*ssed off with nearly every other decision he made at EMU. Diles was also looking for a job himself so he probably didn't do his homework on this hire.

Again, this is my opinion.

Diles didn't want to hire him the scearch commitee did. Diles wanted to hire someone else, the interm Pres at the time told Diles to hire him or else.

(01-28-2010 01:47 PM)HuronDave Wrote:  FWIW ... here are my thoughts on what EMU needs to look at, at least in general terms and this would apply to both football and hoops.

We become too enamored with assistants at major programs. The problem, especially in football and to a lesser degree in hoops, is that these coaches are not used to dealing with a program that does not have endless resources and when calling on a recruit, does not have to explain about the school. In other words, a coach at Mich can call on a recruit and the recruit instantly listens because it is a well-known entity.

On the other hand, I think where EMU needs to look is at head coaches who have been successful at the so-called mid-major or lower level. They have shown they know how to recruit, have put together a winning program on a tight budget and limited facilities. I think such a candidate would come in with reasonable expectations and a genuine understanding of how to build a winner with less than a winning hand to start.

Been ther done that. Twice Barnes and Boone

(01-28-2010 05:22 PM)emussuperfan Wrote:  

(01-28-2010 01:46 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  

(01-28-2010 01:23 PM)EMUAARON Wrote:  

(01-28-2010 10:38 AM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  This should be a lesson to all of us that wanted a coach with ties to the school. Ramsey was the poplur chice by most of us. We were blind to the fact that recruiting and coaching ability mean much, much more.

i agree to a point, but how many of us, as fans, would know if he had good coaching ability? it would take a former player or head coach above him to know whether he had coaching acumen.

we saw him as a local guy who coached under respected coaches, and hired other respected locals as assistants. All the pieces were there to recruit extremely well in state.

i don't regret supporting it at the time, but i definitely have bad feelings about how it turned out.

Too much micromanaging of the team while they're on the court, and no local recruiting to speak of.

Let me add to my thought. Ramsey was the popular choice amongst most fans. My theory is that Diles new this so he hired him as a way of making ammends with the EMU folks he had p*ssed off with nearly every other decision he made at EMU. Diles was also looking for a job himself so he probably didn't do his homework on this hire.

Again, this is my opinion.

Diles didn't want to hire him the scearch commitee did. Diles wanted to hire someone else, the interm Pres at the time told Diles to hire him or else.

Yeah, that is the strange story of Ramsey's hire, namely, Diles apparently wanted Montgomery but everyone else wanted Ramsey.

I also was told by a MSU fan that it was unfair to Montgomery to have to fly from the West Coast on a late Sunday night (MSU played in the NCAAs) and interview the next day.

I'm not sure Montgomery interviews that well, but he was put at a disadvantage interviewing 12 - 15 hours after coaching in the NCAAs.

As I recall it, MSU played one of those Sunday games on the West Coast which ended around 8:00 p.m. Eastern time and has to get back to Ypsilanti for say a 8 or 9:00 am. day of interviews. That's tough. He might have gotten 4 or 5 hours sleep and no chance to prepare.

I agree with Huron Dave. We need established coaches that have worked with limited resources (sorry if I'm repeating you Dave), budgets and got the job done. I agree with Wooden the coach does need Michigan connections although (now we're talking pie in the sky) some connections in any of these Ohio, Indiana and Illinois would be helpful.

I noted that Graggs significantly raised the head coach football salary for English. I wonder if he would do the same for the men's head basketball coach?

I don't recall Jim Boone having any recruiting connections in Michigan.

This thread sure generated a lot of interest after the loss to BG. Next 2 games are on the road which should prove interesting because we have a track record of not winning very often on the road.

Add the following names to the mix: Montgomery and/or McDowell

Ramsey on Twitter after last nights game:

Hey nation thanks for the support, we owe you one after last nights game got away

Ram's ears must be burning.

+1 to hiring an assistant from a major program like MSU, ala English from UM, however it may cost a pretty penny like English...

And something tells me, as much as it may be cliche and not PC, the race card is a factor for Gragg and may lead too Ramsey not being fired or, not resigned for a year. I just think it will take a Genyk-like performance for him not to be back. Look at Gragg's track record -- every time (save for baseball, once) there's been an opening for a major spot within athletics since he's been here Gragg has filled by a black person... Assistant AD (immediately when he was hired), football coach, baseball coach (again, Jake Boss was hired before Alexander), w. basketball. Just saying that there may be something to say for one of very few black ADs in D1 athletics with a track record of hiring like-kind.

And there is probably something to hiring like-kind for Gragg -- I've only talked to him once but he seems smart. He gets it. EMU has a large black student body and large black alumni base, with many former athletes who are black. I just think this may be one reason he's going to give Ramsey one more year to get things done. What do you think?

(01-28-2010 08:39 PM)TimBuck2 Wrote:  +1 to hiring an assistant from a major program like MSU, ala English from UM, however it may cost a pretty penny like English...

And something tells me, as much as it may be cliche and not PC, the race card is a factor for Gragg and may lead too Ramsey not being fired or, not resigned for a year. I just think it will take a Genyk-like performance for him not to be back. Look at Gragg's track record -- every time (save for baseball, once) there's been an opening for a major spot within athletics since he's been here Gragg has filled by a black person... Assistant AD (immediately when he was hired), football coach, baseball coach (again, Jake Boss was hired before Alexander), w. basketball. Just saying that there may be something to say for one of very few black ADs in D1 athletics with a track record of hiring like-kind.

And there is probably something to hiring like-kind for Gragg -- I've only talked to him once but he seems smart. He gets it. EMU has a large black student body and large black alumni base, with many former athletes who are black. I just think this may be one reason he's going to give Ramsey one more year to get things done. What do you think?

Don't start the race card here please go to Mdead if you want to do that!

(01-28-2010 09:52 PM)emussuperfan Wrote:  

(01-28-2010 08:39 PM)TimBuck2 Wrote:  +1 to hiring an assistant from a major program like MSU, ala English from UM, however it may cost a pretty penny like English...

And something tells me, as much as it may be cliche and not PC, the race card is a factor for Gragg and may lead too Ramsey not being fired or, not resigned for a year. I just think it will take a Genyk-like performance for him not to be back. Look at Gragg's track record -- every time (save for baseball, once) there's been an opening for a major spot within athletics since he's been here Gragg has filled by a black person... Assistant AD (immediately when he was hired), football coach, baseball coach (again, Jake Boss was hired before Alexander), w. basketball. Just saying that there may be something to say for one of very few black ADs in D1 athletics with a track record of hiring like-kind.

And there is probably something to hiring like-kind for Gragg -- I've only talked to him once but he seems smart. He gets it. EMU has a large black student body and large black alumni base, with many former athletes who are black. I just think this may be one reason he's going to give Ramsey one more year to get things done. What do you think?

Don't start the race card here please go to Mdead if you want to do that!

Come on Super, TimBuck didn't say anything offensive or derogatory. Are we so sensitive that we can not talk about a subject like race???

Ramsey was not a Gragg hire so there may be a lack of loyalty just for that reason alone. I think Gragg is smart enough to know that if he wants to eventully be an AD at a major school then he can not make decisions based on color.

Gragg has hired coaches and staff members that are white and black. I know Alexander and think that he's a great guy and a good fit for EMU. Also, hard to argue with the Gilbert hire. I just want to see Gragg hire the best person for the job regardless of color.

Time to re-spin the race issue 180 degrees, guys, and get real.

One of the reasons why African-American HCs are so popular in D-I hoops is that most of the players are African-American.

It is the ole RECRUITING angle.

It is the assumption that African American coaches can recruit African American kids and the big cities but white coaches without big reputations would not do well.

If the HC is not African American, then there better be a Gary Waters, or the coach at UDM who brought Jalen Rose and Chris Webber to Ann Arbor.

Many coaches who didn't make it in the MAC, e.g., Jim Boone, Rob Judson (NIU), etc. could not effectively recruit.

Gary Waters I believe had to let Kevin Heck at Rutgers go because he wanted to replace him with a coach who could recruit NYC.

(01-29-2010 09:02 AM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  

(01-28-2010 09:52 PM)emussuperfan Wrote:  

(01-28-2010 08:39 PM)TimBuck2 Wrote:  +1 to hiring an assistant from a major program like MSU, ala English from UM, however it may cost a pretty penny like English...

And something tells me, as much as it may be cliche and not PC, the race card is a factor for Gragg and may lead too Ramsey not being fired or, not resigned for a year. I just think it will take a Genyk-like performance for him not to be back. Look at Gragg's track record -- every time (save for baseball, once) there's been an opening for a major spot within athletics since he's been here Gragg has filled by a black person... Assistant AD (immediately when he was hired), football coach, baseball coach (again, Jake Boss was hired before Alexander), w. basketball. Just saying that there may be something to say for one of very few black ADs in D1 athletics with a track record of hiring like-kind.

And there is probably something to hiring like-kind for Gragg -- I've only talked to him once but he seems smart. He gets it. EMU has a large black student body and large black alumni base, with many former athletes who are black. I just think this may be one reason he's going to give Ramsey one more year to get things done. What do you think?

Don't start the race card here please go to Mdead if you want to do that!

Come on Super, TimBuck didn't say anything offensive or derogatory. Are we so sensitive that we can not talk about a subject like race???

Ramsey was not a Gragg hire so there may be a lack of loyalty just for that reason alone. I think Gragg is smart enough to know that if he wants to eventully be an AD at a major school then he can not make decisions based on color.

Gragg has hired coaches and staff members that are white and black. I know Alexander and think that he's a great guy and a good fit for EMU. Also, hard to argue with the Gilbert hire. I just want to see Gragg hire the best person for the job regardless of color.

Have to agree, Wooden. TimBuck2 did not say anything untoward. If we can't discuss all the issues on the table in a rational, mature tone then what is the point?

Having said that, I do want to add that I really still want to see Ramsey succeed and hope that the rest of the season can be salvaged. Rams has a lot of passion and desire to succeed at EMU, he really pours his heart into this job and has worked very hard at not just trying to make EMU a success on the court but has instilled a solid academic balance as well that was sorely missing before his arrival.

I too hope Ramsey succeeds.

I don't like the constant shuffle of coaches.