(03-20-2009 02:23 PM)Nigel Incubator-Jones Wrote:  A lot of people are scraping by and Wal-Mart is critically important in terms of putting food on the table and clothing the family.

That may be true. But the ironic thing is the reason they are scraping by without a well-paying job is partly due to the fact of globalization and the type of environment WM has thrived on. Some of those people might have worked at a clothing factory making a good wage. Now they lost their job due to cheap overseas labor (which WM cannot survive on without), and now they're selling these goods back to the same people for "cheaper"...so are we really coming out ahead in the end? I think the answer is clear we're not.

However, its also clear globalization isnt going away: its the way things are now and forever, and its only going to increase. The only answer for survival is innovation, and thats what scares me, because frankly this country has lost a lot of its creativity and big thinking.

(03-20-2009 08:49 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Dog Fan – I want to ask some tough questions, so I’ll play a bit of devils advocate here……

Quote:We won't even discuss Wal-Mart's treatment of its workers, which is another chapter

Another chapter, absolutely. But Walmart provides jobs, health care and insurance for tens if not hundreds of thousands of otherwise unemployed or underemployed Americans. In many ways, Walmat is one of the greatest anti-poverty programs in history (jobs, health insurance, affordable consumer items etc) Walmart has an ugly history of not being perfect in their employment practices, but from most that we can currently read and understand, the business is actively working to fix the problems, reprimand or replace the management responsible, and move forward as a responsible employer.

Actually, I think that it is Wal-Mart that is causing a lot of the underemployment. Working for $8.00/hour(which is probably generous) is what they mean when they talk about underemployed. Basically, a person loses a job paying $35,000+ now working for slightly minimum wage(and in some states just at minimum wage) at Wal-Mart because that is all they can get. As for benefits, health insurance was mainly for the few full time employees(which are few and far between) they had until fairly recently. Now they expanded it because of pressure(ie. they could see the "K-Mart" image rearing its head and we all know what happened to K-Mart because of reputation). I am not sure what the insurance costs the employee(I assume they have to pay at least some out of pocket) but at $8.00/hour is it even possible to afford it for a full time employee let alone a part timer? They have recently said they plan on giving something like $2 billion in bonuses for their employees. Anyone else see a connection to the proposed Employee Choice Act possibly getting through and becoming law? THis was a pre-emptive strike to avoid the worker from voting for becoming unionized.

Quote:Wal-Mart is the cause of the ruination of so many small-town businesses - as well as many larger businesses and manufacturers. I have literally seen century-old community businesses crumble as soon as Wal-Mart moved into town. I have had family business owners practically cry on my shoulder because there is no way they can compete with Wal-Mart and its tactics.

There is a large but vocal subsection of Americans, both “anti-Walmart” and “I wouldn’t be caught dead shopping at a Walmart” who actively source, frequent and shop exclusively at local businesses. There is a reason a community can support McDonalds and diners, Caribous and indie coffee shops, SuperWalmarts and local grocery stores.

For the most part this is true but with the growth in Applebees, TGIFridays etc, the canibalization of the diner is pretty severe. Sure this is just business. But in this day and age, Americans want "safe". They know what they get at the chains so they choose those(many times they are probably closer than the local diner too) "safe" choices over an unknown making fewer people think about opening a diner.

Quote:Wal-Mart also changed the face of manufacturing in this country. Wal-Mart is by far the biggest reason why virtually everything in this country is made in China. Please spare me your economic bullcrap about "world economy". Now, everyone is preaching "Buy America". Well, I have been preaching that for decades. Wal-Mart's philosophy was simple: make their suppliers move their operations to, or procure their goods from, China or it will put them out of business. That's just what Wal-Mart did, resulting in manufacturer after manufacturer closing down. Factories across America started closing, and more and more people lost their jobs.

Studies show that between 1985 and 2003, personal income, overall employment and retail employment grew faster in counties with a Wal-Mart than in those without one.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22719054/

Well, I would guess personal income would go up because the people are now working a second job at Wal-Mart or were out of work because the factories Wal-Mart put out of business now have a job so their personal income is more than $0. Just because personal income goes up doesn't mean they are better off overall. Obviously retail grew. Most mom and pop stores may hire one person outside "mom and pop" so when Wal-Mart comes in and creates 300 jobs(or whatever they hire to start with) there will be more retail jobs-especially if you are talking about the beginning of that timeline when they were still pretty much going into rural communities. It should also be known that when a retail store says they will hire a certain number of people, that number will be for approximately one year before getting roughly cut in half(noted from personal experience). I am not sure if this study takes this into account. It is also not surprising other jobs open up-many of them retail or finacial-all providing low wage jobs for the most part. The need for a gas station, auto shop, McDonalds and a bank to serve the Wal-Mart employees is there. This increases employment-just not with the best paying jobs.

Quote:Ever try to buy a TV made in America? Up to a year ago, it was actually possible - although extremely difficult. There was one - count 'em, one - TV manufacturer (Five Rivers Electronics) that made TVs for the major brands. Wal-Mart tried to force them out of business, and a legal battle ensued. Five Rivers won, but the pressure from Wal-Mart eventually took its toll and they shut down operations. Other industries and manufacturers have met the same fate.

What about all the American manufacturers that sells products at Walmart? Do they not count because you can no longer buy an American TV?

Sure they count. I am not sure how many "American" products Wal-Mart sells but it is very limited. Most of which are Coke, Doritos etc.

See the italicised comments above.

Wal-Mart announces $2 billion dollar bonuses for hourly workers.

Credits to buy goods at Wal-Mart.

Are they trying to keep unions off their backs?

Why blame Wal-Mart and not the shoppers who choose to buy foreign-made products or work for Wal-Mart wages? The reality is that not that long ago there was a choice - and people overall chose low prices, even if that meant foreign goods - over higher prices. South Park had a great episode commenting on this whole "hate Wal-Mart" phenomenon.

How many of you who decry Wal-Mart happily buy your cars from non-Big 3 manufacturers? Don't you see any hypocrisy in that?

For those who buy baseball/softball gloves for your kids (or yourself) I highly recommend Nokona. They are a Texas company who still make their gloves in Texas - great quality! I have bought three over the past year - one each for my two boys, and one for me - and I'll never go back to Wilson, Rawlings, etc. again. Check them out at: http://www.nokona.com/

(03-21-2009 10:52 AM)klake87 Wrote:  Wal-Mart announces $2 billion dollar bonuses for hourly workers.

Credits to buy goods at Wal-Mart.

Are they trying to keep unions off their backs?

YES. THey are basically bribing the employees to not start a union.

(03-21-2009 01:58 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(03-21-2009 10:52 AM)klake87 Wrote:  Wal-Mart announces $2 billion dollar bonuses for hourly workers.

Credits to buy goods at Wal-Mart.

Are they trying to keep unions off their backs?

YES. THey are basically bribing the employees to not start a union.

So, using your logic, when the union promises employees they can get them more money the union is bribing the works to join the union.