This thread is for Dog Fan in particular but anyone can jump in. Wal-Mart has both good and bad points. It delivers low cost items to budget conscience people. On the other hand, because it is so large, it can really beat up vendors to get incredible pricing.

I know first hand. I worked for a company that sold plastic profile extrusions. Since Wal-Mart usually becomes a companies largest customer on volume alone, we had a diverse team working on these projects. Cost, delivery and specs were all important. They really enjoy brow beating their vendors.

We won the contract but Margins were very tight.

Watch the film "Wal-Mart: High Cost of Low Price" Pretty much sums up my feelings

My company echos yours - but Walmart has such an ability to move a high volume of goods that our tight margins add up into huge profit.

What is a Plasic Profile extrusion?

(03-20-2009 07:56 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  My company echos yours - but Walmart has such an ability to move a high volume of goods that our tight margins add up into huge profit.

What is a Plasic Profile extrusion?

The plastic pricing strips on the shelving units in the store. You see them in most stores to attach signage. They clip on to the shelving and advertising is inserted. Usually, when you reach into the shelf to grab something, you end up catching the plastic strip pulling off the shelf. I do that all the time.

Okay, I will try to make this as succinct as possible. I can not share all I know because I could easily write a book on this. We won't even discuss Wal-Mart's treatment of its workers, which is another chapter

Wal-Mart is the cause of the ruination of so many small-town businesses - as well as many larger businesses and manufacturers. I have literally seen century-old community businesses crumble as soon as Wal-Mart moved into town. I have had family business owners practically cry on my shoulder because there is no way they can compete with Wal-Mart and its tactics. Henderson's in downtown Sycamore is but one example, as is The Little Fiddler gift shop. I have seen family-run business in places like Pontiac and Lincoln, Illinois crumble because life-long friends of these business owners flocked to Wal-Mart to save a few cents. In small towns across America, downtowns became a ghost town as everyone flocked to Wal-Mart as if it were the Holy Grail found. Wal-Mart virtually took over these towns and businesses.

Wal-Mart also changed the face of manufacturing in this country. Wal-Mart is by far the biggest reason why virtually everything in this country is made in China. Please spare me your economic bullcrap about "world economy". Now, everyone is preaching "Buy America". Well, I have been preaching that for decades. Wal-Mart's philosophy was simple: make their suppliers move their operations to, or procure their goods from, China or it will put them out of business. That's just what Wal-Mart did, resulting in manufacturer after manufacturer closing down. Factories across America started closing, and more and more people lost their jobs.

Ever try to buy a TV made in America? Up to a year ago, it was actually possible - although extremely difficult. There was one - count 'em, one - TV manufacturer (Five Rivers Electronics) that made TVs for the major brands. Wal-Mart tried to force them out of business, and a legal battle ensued. Five Rivers won, but the pressure from Wal-Mart eventually took its toll and they shut down operations. Other industries and manufacturers have met the same fate.

There is a web site that I support that gives frequent updates. I urge you to visit http://www.walmartwatch.com.

Wal-Marts size makes them a very intimidating company. They definitely use their purchasing power to their advantage. They are similar to the way GM, Ford and Chrysler were back in the Seventies. You wan to grow, you have to do business with the Big 3 but they asked for cost concessions every year to make them more profitable. It caught up to them when the cost concessions could not out weigh the legacy costs. Eventually, suppliers told them to go scratch.

Dog Fan and I may not dress alike, but we think alike.
I mean, we think alike when it comes to macro economics.
We need to support our own people. I am shocked there was
not more of an uproar over the tainted pet food from china.
What will it take for us to turn our backs on third world crap?

great thread....sometimes really low prices are simply not worth it. i haven't been to WM in years

do the targets & meijers of the world practice the same tactics as wal-mart? how do they get their low prices?

Dog Fan – I want to ask some tough questions, so I’ll play a bit of devils advocate here……

Quote:We won't even discuss Wal-Mart's treatment of its workers, which is another chapter

Another chapter, absolutely. But Walmart provides jobs, health care and insurance for tens if not hundreds of thousands of otherwise unemployed or underemployed Americans. In many ways, Walmat is one of the greatest anti-poverty programs in history (jobs, health insurance, affordable consumer items etc) Walmart has an ugly history of not being perfect in their employment practices, but from most that we can currently read and understand, the business is actively working to fix the problems, reprimand or replace the management responsible, and move forward as a responsible employer.

Quote:Wal-Mart is the cause of the ruination of so many small-town businesses - as well as many larger businesses and manufacturers. I have literally seen century-old community businesses crumble as soon as Wal-Mart moved into town. I have had family business owners practically cry on my shoulder because there is no way they can compete with Wal-Mart and its tactics.

There is a large but vocal subsection of Americans, both “anti-Walmart” and “I wouldn’t be caught dead shopping at a Walmart” who actively source, frequent and shop exclusively at local businesses. There is a reason a community can support McDonalds and diners, Caribous and indie coffee shops, SuperWalmarts and local grocery stores.

Quote:Wal-Mart also changed the face of manufacturing in this country. Wal-Mart is by far the biggest reason why virtually everything in this country is made in China. Please spare me your economic bullcrap about "world economy". Now, everyone is preaching "Buy America". Well, I have been preaching that for decades. Wal-Mart's philosophy was simple: make their suppliers move their operations to, or procure their goods from, China or it will put them out of business. That's just what Wal-Mart did, resulting in manufacturer after manufacturer closing down. Factories across America started closing, and more and more people lost their jobs.

Studies show that between 1985 and 2003, personal income, overall employment and retail employment grew faster in counties with a Wal-Mart than in those without one.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22719054/

Quote:Ever try to buy a TV made in America? Up to a year ago, it was actually possible - although extremely difficult. There was one - count 'em, one - TV manufacturer (Five Rivers Electronics) that made TVs for the major brands. Wal-Mart tried to force them out of business, and a legal battle ensued. Five Rivers won, but the pressure from Wal-Mart eventually took its toll and they shut down operations. Other industries and manufacturers have met the same fate.

What about all the American manufacturers that sells products at Walmart? Do they not count because you can no longer buy an American TV?

I get clostrophobic in Wal-Mart.

(03-20-2009 08:49 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  What about all the American manufacturers that sells products at Walmart? Do they not count because you can no longer buy an American TV?

Almost all these manufacturers have suffered. Its a catch-22: they can either play with WM and make next to no margin, or they can choose not to and loose out on the opportunity to sell their products in many markets, since WM is the only game in town.

Vlassic, Rubbermaid, and Schwinn are all classic examples of once strong, American brands which have been brutalized by doing business w/ Wal Mart.

(03-20-2009 08:23 AM)Red Black Wrote:  Dog Fan and I may not dress alike, but we think alike.
I mean, we think alike when it comes to macro economics.
We need to support our own people. I am shocked there was
not more of an uproar over the tainted pet food from china.
What will it take for us to turn our backs on third world crap?

Why do you think that food manufacturers are so against the country of origin labeling? It's because so much of our food comes from China. If you look at a lot of packaged food (and other consumer goods), it says "distributed by" and then lists an American company. The product is NOT manufactured by them. Most likely, the product was made in China (or some thrird-world country).

I read something incredible a while back. Salmon caught in Alaska is shipped to China to be processed and sent back to the U.S. It virtually destroyed the fish processing industry in Alaska. Even the kosher food industry in the U.S. is having meats processed in China!

Do you guys enjoy reading all those articles on the factory conditions in China that manufactures our food? And we wonder why people (and pets) are getting sick and dying from food-bourne illnesses? Of course, it happens in this country too (peanuts, anyone?), but it's more rare than food coming from China. Every time I put food in my mouth (and that's often), I get a bit scared.

Know how many shoes are made in the U.S.? Very, very few. I used to buy Mason shoes made in Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin. Superb shoes at a very reasonable price. Local people worked in the factory and took pride in the excellent shoes they manufactured. Know where the shoes are made now? You guessed it...China. Dozens of factory workers lost their jobs. As soon as I found out the shoes were made in China, I stopped dealing with Mason...and I told them why. I now get my shoes from Allen Edmonds, which are made in Port Washington, Wisconsin. They are more expensive but oh so well made. And, they are virtually hand made. The shoes seem to last forever. Plus, if you drive to the factory outlet at the factory, you can save a few bucks on "seconds". And, you can watch your fellow Americans make those shoes.

American manufacturing is a shell of what it used to be. It's all in the name of saving a few cents or a couple bucks.

(03-20-2009 08:58 AM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  

(03-20-2009 08:49 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  What about all the American manufacturers that sells products at Walmart? Do they not count because you can no longer buy an American TV?

Almost all these manufacturers have suffered. Its a catch-22: they can either play with WM and make next to no margin, or they can choose not to and loose out on the opportunity to sell their products in many markets, since WM is the only game in town.

Vlassic, Rubbermaid, and Schwinn are all classic examples of once strong, American brands which have been brutalized by doing business w/ Wal Mart.

100% true.

It's a free country. Anyone can choose to shop at Wal-Mart. It's my choice to never set foot in one...not even to grace their toilets with my excrement.

It is so funny - well, maybe more ironic than funny - that so many jobless people feel the need to shop at Wal-Mart, and Wal-Mart is the main reason that so many of them are jobless.

As a side note, look at the Wal-Mart Watch web site. They are showing an interview with a WM worker from Hudson, NY. She needed to buy eye glasses. Wal-Mart supplies a vision benefit. The vision center at Wal-Mart does not accept the Wal-Mart vision benefit. So much for wal-Mart's "benefits".

Wal Mart eats people... and not in the good way (see Larry English).

The bloom will fall off the china rose soon enough. Then the problem with bringing it back will be that the capabilities have been lost. The China labor force will realize that the world needs them and get greedy and increase costs and now how will people get cheap stuff.

There was a great article in the last issue of the Atlantic about China's future in general, and how it will affect us

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200904/ch...innovation

Quote:Idle factories, moored container ships, widespread bankruptcies, massive migration back to the hinterlands, strangely clean air—the signs of depression are everywhere in China. Because it makes so many of the goods the world isn’t buying now, China stands to be worse hit than the rest of the world —just as America was during the Depression, when it was the world’s sweatshop. But like America then, China will use tough times to design innovative products that will get it the high profits and the high-value jobs Americans kept to themselves for decades. And that is very bad news for the United States, unless it uses tough times to reinvent itself, too.

I hate Wal-Mart, but fact is they are THE example of what happens in a global economy and where companies are singularly focused on the pursuit of productivity gain. Is Wal-Mart a "cause" or a "result" of the seismic changes we see in our domestic economy? I tend to believe the later.

Gone completely are the days then a factory worker is going to make $40 hour with benefits or the middle manager with vague job description making $90,000. American jobs will continue to be outsourced or disappear completely unless we continue to adapt to the realities of the global economy and international trade.

So given the reality of the world we live in I think Wal-Mart is actually very important. For millions of Americans their tag line reads very true..."lower prices, live better." Just look at how well Wal-Mart is doing right now during the recession for proof of their value to Americans. A lot of people are scraping by and Wal-Mart is critically important in terms of putting food on the table and clothing the family.

I'm like a lot of people- I don't want to deal with WalMart and in so doing end up supporting their way of doing business. But I know for myself and a lot of people, I'm not yet in a position where I need their prices. So I go, and take the small solace that in DeKalb at least, it is a cosmopolitan place where people of all walks of life are. But I know when I can afford to bypass them completely, I will. And I often do.

As for WalMart versus other big box type stores- a pivotal difference between WalMart and, say, Costco, is in how the employees are treated. WalMart does not treat their employees well and their turnover rate shows it. But they're able to keep going with it because there are always people that need the job badly enough to go to them.

It occurred to me watching It's A Wonderful Life this holiday season that we live in the Pottersville dystopia George Bailey is sent to when shown a world without him.