georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:When they can produce an Ape from a single-celled organism and evolve it into a human, I will bite. They ARE arrogant enough to think they can create the technology....so.....I am waiting.

Nice defense. You've selected to be swayed by something that would take millions of years to happen.

Apes weren't around a million years ago GTS. As a matter of fact, mammals are some of the youngest species on the planet.

RebelKev Wrote:

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:When they can produce an Ape from a single-celled organism and evolve it into a human, I will bite. They ARE arrogant enough to think they can create the technology....so.....I am waiting.

Nice defense. You've selected to be swayed by something that would take millions of years to happen.

Apes weren't around a million years ago GTS. As a matter of fact, mammals are some of the youngest species on the planet.

You didn't SAY ape --> human did you? You said ONE CELL --> human.

Ape --> Human will require an entire country set to the proper conditions (lush forest --> desert) and thousands upon thousands of years.

Once again --> How nice of you to choose something easily attainable in your lifetime as good enough evidence.

Humans are still around. Apes are still around. Humans live on the same continent with apes, I.e. same conditions. Again, I do not contend we haven't evolved, I also don't contend we evolved from a totally different species.

RebelKev Wrote:Humans are still around. Apes are still around. Humans live on the same continent with apes, I.e. same conditions. Again, I do not contend we haven't evolved, I  also don't contend we evolved from a totally different species.

Not all apes were subject to living in a lush tropical forest that turned into a barren desert ... thus the stimulus for learning to walk... no trees, and they have to stand up to see above the brush to forrage for food... which with their pure-ape skeleton is tiring extremely quickly... thus the continued advance to the human.

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:Humans are still around. Apes are still around. Humans live on the same continent with apes, I.e. same conditions. Again, I do not contend we haven't evolved, I  also don't contend we evolved from a totally different species.

Not all apes were subject to living in a lush tropical forest that turned into a barren desert ... thus the stimulus for learning to walk... no trees, and they have to stand up to see above the brush to forrage for food... which with their pure-ape skeleton is tiring extremely quickly... thus the continued advance to the human.

Apes walk in the jungle, GTS. ....on two feet. Still........

RebelKev Wrote:Apes walk in the jungle, GTS. ....on two feet. Still........

They are not bipedal. They can only shuffle with help from arms... more like a dog than a human. We are talking bipedal... two-leg unsupported movement. Movement demanded by "survival of the fittest" when the jungle dwindled to desert.... to be able to see predators over the brush, to be able to migrate to scattered food/water sources, and to flat out not become extinct. Over time the continued attempts to move on two legs (very painful, awkward, and tiring with pure ape anatomy) leads to evolution.

can't i beleve that god is the missing link. :D

RebelKev Wrote:

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:When it becomes an ape, then a human, lemme know.

That's a dangerous massive oversimplication, and a mockery of the very definition of evolution.

Sorry, but I do not believe we evolved from a completely different species. I was a Biology major. I know all about evolution in the sense of adaptation to a habitat. I just don't see how it applies in this situation. Seems like a bunch of scientists that like playing God and hold him in contempt because they think they are smarter. When they can produce an Ape from a single-celled organism and evolve it into a human, I will bite. They ARE arrogant enough to think they can create the technology....so.....I am waiting.

Evolution is an ongoing thing. Humans like to say "Evolved from Apes" like we are at a stopping point or something. Its beeen going on for millions of years.

A few thousand years say from 10 BC to 2005 isnt much when looking at millions of years.

It will continue long after we are gone.

MU ATO Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:When it becomes an ape, then a human, lemme know.

That's a dangerous massive oversimplication, and a mockery of the very definition of evolution.

Sorry, but I do not believe we evolved from a completely different species. I was a Biology major. I know all about evolution in the sense of adaptation to a habitat. I just don't see how it applies in this situation. Seems like a bunch of scientists that like playing God and hold him in contempt because they think they are smarter. When they can produce an Ape from a single-celled organism and evolve it into a human, I will bite. They ARE arrogant enough to think they can create the technology....so.....I am waiting.

Evolution is an ongoing thing. Humans like to say "Evolved from Apes" like we are at a stopping point or something. Its beeen going on for millions of years.

A few thousand years say from 10 BC to 2005 isnt much when looking at millions of years.

It will continue long after we are gone.

*If* the evolution theory is correct, then yes MU ATO, I think you would be correct...but evidence? There is only true proof from back at 4000 B.C. or so. Rocks and Fossil dating is a laughing experience. The guy I heard spoke was in a class where they took a living organism from the sea and it dated to being dead for 2,500 years...and it was still alive. Until they have accurate dating procedures and records, there is NO proof before 4000 B.C. or so.

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:Evolution; I find the refusal to believe one is descended from monkies, given the archeological evidence, arrogant. I am Deist, so my religious beliefs mesh with evolution perfectly. To believe in creationism, in my opinion, is to replace a landslide of scientific evidence with your imaginary friend of preference.

Arrogant? If I'm wrong, then maybe...but I have too much faith to believe that. Until any transitional evidence is found, I am 100% doubtful of humans coming from apes. Isn't it weird that the whole story of creation in the Bible fits? Where did the monkies/apes come from?

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

techfan4 Wrote:My Religous Beliefs: Christianity
My "Denomination": Baptist
My Creator: God

Evidence disproving Evolution:

[BLAH BLAH BLAH]

An introduction to hard facts without vague unproven statements:

Evolution and the Fossil Record: by John Pojesta, Jr. and Dale A. Springer
American Geological Institute and the Paleontological Society
<a href='http://www.agiweb.org/news/evolution.pdf' target='_blank'>http://www.agiweb.org/news/evolution.pdf</a>

:snore:

Do I believe in Creation? Not really. Do I know for sure? Nope do any of us? I do lean towards science over religion ANY time.

techfan4 Wrote::snore:

Sorry science isn't as exciting as the imaginary friend that is all powerful and created everything....... yet can't seem to solve some of current issues with mankind, including filth, disease, povery, plague, hunger, devastation, natural disaster, N*Sync, and the Ice Capades.

blah Wrote:I thought that was a pretty good commentary.....

For me it has always been, "think of all the things that would have had to line up exactly the way they did." A higher power had to be at work.

1. Earth is exactly the right distance from the sun to have temperatures to support life.

2. There is water on the earth.

3. There is oxygen on earth.

4. Animals need oxygen and give off carbon dioxide, plants need carbon dioxide and give off oxygen. Any other way, we would run out of either.

5. Water is the only solid that is less dense than its liquid state. (i.e. ice doesn't sink) This one is huge when it comes to life.

When you add it all up, I just don't see how it could all be coincidence. If it was, why don't we find it somewhere else?

1. Mars has shown signs of previous life. Where is your explanation for that? Where is the bible's explanation for that?

2. There was water on Mars. In fact, there is water (in frozen form) on one of the moons orbiting Saturn (I believe it is Titan).

3. There is oxygen through the universe, not just on earth.

4. You don't think that evolution could explain the fact that having plants and animals fighting for the same resources would cause both to die?

5. Chemical makeup can cause all kinds of weird things to happen...

I'm a deist, like GTS, and believe that there is ample evidence for evolution. I also believe that if god had his hands in creating what we are today, he did it long before Adam and Eve,. If he had his hands in creating the first living organisms, he didn't create a whole human being, but some sort of living organism that slowly evolved into what we see today.

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:Sorry science isn't as exciting as the imaginary friend that is all powerful and created everything....... yet can't seem to solve some of current issues with mankind, including filth, disease, povery, plague, hunger, devastation, natural disaster, N*Sync, and the Ice Capades.

You forgot about Duke. :)

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

techfan4 Wrote::snore:

Sorry science isn't as exciting as the imaginary friend that is all powerful and created everything....... yet can't seem to solve some of current issues with mankind, including filth, disease, povery, plague, hunger, devastation, natural disaster, N*Sync, and the Ice Capades.

Why? Because man sinned. And with that comes struggles. If you choose to follow God, then your struggles are over for eternity...if you don't, you'll live in hell for eternity...take your pick. It's a whole lot more peaceful knowing that your life has a purpose. It would be too depressing to think that you are a mistake that have ape relatives and have no meaning and then die and become nothing.

But N*Sync...I think that was a mistake...I think they dropped out of his hands

techfan4 Wrote:It would be too depressing to think that you are a mistake that have ape relatives and have no meaning and then die and become nothing.

How does believing in and following God make your life have meaning?

mlbUC Wrote:

techfan4 Wrote:It would be too depressing to think that you are a mistake that have ape relatives and have no meaning and then die and become nothing.

How does believing in and following God make your life have meaning?

Well, a couple of reasons. The most important being that if you accept him as your lord and savior you have eternal life, whereas you don't if you reject him. Two, following God makes life so much easier. I can't tell you what my life would be like if I hadn't found the Lord. He gives me everything I desire and need. I'm just so much better for having found God, I can't even explain it really.

As for the whole evolution-creation argument, I don't have the time to really get into as it is such a vast topic, but I will say that techfan is making my points perfectly.

mlbUC Wrote:

techfan4 Wrote:It would be too depressing to think that you are a mistake that have ape relatives and have no meaning and then die and become nothing.

How does believing in and following God make your life have meaning?

It's called giving your life a purpose.

Once we realize that we are here on Earth to serve the God that Serves Us, then our life has meaning. Your life is not yours, but the Lords. :angel:

mlbUC Wrote:

blah Wrote:I thought that was a pretty good commentary.....

For me it has always been, "think of all the things that would have had to line up exactly the way they did."&nbsp; A higher power had to be at work.

1.&nbsp; Earth is exactly the right distance from the sun to have temperatures to support life.

2.&nbsp; There is water on the earth.

3.&nbsp; There is oxygen on earth.

4.&nbsp; Animals need oxygen and give off carbon dioxide, plants need carbon dioxide and give off oxygen.&nbsp; Any other way, we would run out of either.

5.&nbsp; Water is the only solid that is less dense than its liquid state. (i.e. ice doesn't sink)&nbsp; This one is huge when it comes to life.

When you add it all up, I just don't see how it could all be coincidence.&nbsp; If it was, why don't we find it somewhere else?

1. Mars has shown signs of previous life. Where is your explanation for that? Where is the bible's explanation for that?

2. There was water on Mars. In fact, there is water (in frozen form) on one of the moons orbiting Saturn (I believe it is Titan).

3. There is oxygen through the universe, not just on earth.

4. You don't think that evolution could explain the fact that having plants and animals fighting for the same resources would cause both to die?

5. Chemical makeup can cause all kinds of weird things to happen...

I'm a deist, like GTS, and believe that there is ample evidence for evolution. I also believe that if god had his hands in creating what we are today, he did it long before Adam and Eve,. If he had his hands in creating the first living organisms, he didn't create a whole human being, but some sort of living organism that slowly evolved into what we see today.

1 & 2. Not true. Scientists believe they will find water on Mars, but as of yet have not. They recently used some sort of telescope to look for these lines that they say are caused by water under the surface, but as of now have not yet discovered any. The Bible dosen't reference life on any other planet, so finding it wouldn't really prove anything except that there is or was life on another planet. Although there again might be water on one of Saturn's moon, I don't believe anyone has proved this.

3. True

4. No, I don't. I was trying to comment on how there is almost perfect symbiosis between plants and animals. If there wasn't one would have taken over the other over the last "billion" years. You can't use evolution on this one, because history has shown that many species have run out of resources and have gone extinct before they adapt/evolve.

5. For me, this is the most compelling. The one thing that almost every thing needs, water, just happens to be the one thing that is less dense in its solid form, thereby preserving life.

My friend, who is also a deist, says that this fact is the one thing that makes him believe that there might have been a higher power who started this whole thing, as he cannot explain it away through simple science.