Why do the BG fans keep saying that these are all just traffic violations? I see much more than traffic violations on this list!

actually, lieninger is being allowed back on the team in 2006. he has a redshirt year available and will take it next year, then play again in 2006. he is only 19 and many feel that this will help him catch up phisically and in maturity.

this information is from his brother.

RocketBandMan Wrote:actually, lieninger is being allowed back on the team in 2006. he has a redshirt year available and will take it next year, then play again in 2006. he is only 19 and many feel that this will help him catch up phisically and in maturity.

this information is from his brother.

If they are working with him through counseling and so forth than I can support that decision. Sometimes an experience like that makes you a better person and you can turn things around.

I do have to wonder about some of these other guys though? Again, why hasn't Charles Sharon been disciplined?

mossmaidi Wrote:This is ridiculous.... trying to justify or make UT violations look not as bad by pointing out other teams.

From what i've seen of you through your posts, you've been a mostly level-headed person but you are the one jumping to conclusions. Ranger simply posted facts involving BG football players. He drew no conclusions, made no accusations and justified nothing. He merely informed us of facts involving your team.

Since both our teams have players who have gotten themselves into legal problems, perhaps neither team's fans should take any glee in new reports of player misconduct. Neither team's record is untarnished.

-Dan

Photodan Wrote:

mossmaidi Wrote:This is ridiculous.... trying to justify or make UT violations look not as bad by pointing out other teams.

From what i've seen of you through your posts, you've been a mostly level-headed person but you are the one jumping to conclusions. Ranger simply posted facts involving BG football players. He drew no conclusions, made no accusations and justified nothing. He merely informed us of facts involving your team.

Since both our teams have players who have gotten themselves into legal problems, perhaps neither team's fans should take any glee in new reports of player misconduct. Neither team's record is untarnished.

-Dan

I couldn't have said it better.........believe me because I already tried and it came out slamming those BG'ers.

Our friend Flipper's spin copied below from the ay piggly wiggly site. Note the continued focus on "driving records", and not the myriad of other more serious offenses that their players have been charged with. They are in what is called "denial".

What goes around comes around....................

----------------------------------------------------
The rockette logic is as follows; "Policeman there...Falcon bad".

They don't want to focus on their declining enrollment, the ongoing discipline probems with their football team, the inability of their University administration and athletic department to play nice together and they certainly don't want to focus on the rapidly deteriorating economic picture in Toledo and its inevitable impact on the University's ability to market itself. No they don't want to focus on that, they want to look into the driving records of BGSU student athletes.

They aren't Marshall...but they're getting close.
----------------------------------------------------------

I don't think I was jumping to conclusions. My gut feeling was just telling me that this was brought up now because of all the attention Ut's off the field problems have been getting and to kind of lessen the sting among Rocket fans about what has been happening.

I try not to slam any teams off the field problems, except Ohio State.

mossmaidi Wrote:I try not to slam any teams off the field problems, except Ohio State.

i think we all can slam ohio State. :rofl:

mossmaidi Wrote:I don't think I was jumping to conclusions. My gut feeling was just telling me that this was brought up now because of all the attention Ut's off the field problems have been getting and to kind of lessen the sting among Rocket fans about what has been happening.

I try not to slam any teams off the field problems, except Ohio State.

I think the reason it was brought up now is because some BG fans, I don't believe you are one of them, have ragged us bad about the Frat party incident and now the Gamby incident. They go on to say that their program is very clean and is much cleaner than Toledo's. I feel that this shows that their program has problems too, like all programs probably do, and that they have no room to talk and should keep their mouth shut about Toledo's program. Otherwise, they are gonna hear about their program too.


Even though BG has problems too, we don't feel better about what Gamby did. The good thing is that our coach is taking appropriate action. He is off the team!

This moronic need for BG fans to try and paint Toledo as the "new Marshall" is exactly why we'll continue to have this type of discussion. The only similarity is that we win. A lot. Not just games, but championships. We also do it cleanly. Something they no longer seem able to do.

Kudos to those who did the research to disabuse the BG fans of their delusions that they are somehow cleaner than Toledo. Due to both greater transparency regarding what goes on with the Rockets, and how Amstutz has handled athletes in trouble, this information about BG shows that Toledo runs the cleaner program, while BG tends to sweep things under the rug.

I hope that, as UT fans, we continue this type of defense when confronted by these liars. Perhaps this research will reach the writers at the Blade. As so many have BG edjookashuns, this might aid them in their struggle for competency.

rocketfootball Wrote:Even though BG has problems too, we don't feel better about what Gamby did. The good thing is that our coach is taking appropriate action. He is off the team!

Well said, RF. This thread is in response to the gleeful party that results whenever a UT athlete gets into trouble. It does not in anyway mitigate the seriousness of what Gamby did.

All football programs are going to have trouble. There are a lot of young men, from a variety of backgrounds, most away from home for the first time, with access to things they've no experience with, who cannot be monitored 24/7. Some will do things that they shouldn't. How these problems are dealt with is the measuring stick for a program, not how many of them make it to the papers.

We all know how Marshall "dealt" with their problem athletes. Apparently, at BG, they prefer secrecy. At UT, by necessity, our problems are out in the open, as are the methods that the coaching staff employs to maintain discipline. In that way, perhaps the antagonistic Toledo media inadvertantly does us a huge service.

If only their news counterparts could remember how to do the same thing on other fronts.

Oddball Wrote:Perhaps this research will reach the writers at the Blade.

Paging Karl. :D

RocketBandMan Wrote:actually, lieninger is being allowed back on the team in 2006. he has a redshirt year available and will take it next year, then play again in 2006. he is only 19 and many feel that this will help him catch up phisically and in maturity.

this information is from his brother.

That kid is a good player.
If he gets his act together I don't see a problem with anyone returning.

Second chances don't come cheap though. You gotta work for them.

rocketfootball Wrote:

Oddball Wrote:Perhaps this research will reach the writers at the Blade.

Paging Karl. :D

In my opinion it is not news.
Not now anyway.
BG gets its share of bad press at the time these incidents occur and after that the kids deserve to have the public slowly forget about past indiscretions. Just like anyone else would like have happen for themself.

rocketfootball Wrote:

Oddball Wrote:Perhaps this research will reach the writers at the Blade.

Paging Karl. :D

I could email a link to this thread to Markey, if you think it would help

rocketfootball Wrote:I think the reason it was brought up now is because some BG fans, I don't believe you are one of them, have ragged us bad about the Frat party incident and now the Gamby incident. They go on to say that their program is very clean and is much cleaner than Toledo's. I feel that this shows that their program has problems too, like all programs probably do, and that they have no room to talk and should keep their mouth shut about Toledo's program. Otherwise, they are gonna hear about their program too.


Even though BG has problems too, we don't feel better about what Gamby did. The good thing is that our coach is taking appropriate action. He is off the team!

Right on, RF. If they kept thier remarks on thier board I wouldn't have a problem but when they start coming here and flaming our boards then they deserve this poke in the eye.

nice posts guys, and mossmaidi, I don't believe any of this is geared towards you, moreso like BGDrew, who came on the board with like 2-3 posts and started slamming UT and implying that our whole team was drug dealers, criminals and the like. Pretty much a before you judge us take a good look at yourself type deal.

mossmaidi Wrote:No football team is a bunch of perfect angels obviously, but people care just as much about BG football in the community as UT football I feel.

What community? Need we compare attendance numbers?

We all know that "the community" loves a winner... so let us not compare those numbers either. :chair:

Karl Wrote:

rocketfootball Wrote:

Oddball Wrote:Perhaps this research will reach the writers at the Blade.

Paging Karl. :D

I could email a link to this thread to Markey, if you think it would help

Markey is a BG alum so he might not want to publicize something like this.