(01-26-2022 01:45 PM)bear2be2 Wrote:  I've never understood the Boise hate/disrespect. That's a really good program that has earned everything it's ever gotten and has sustained its success across three decades and numerous coaching changes.

I've also never understood the Colorado State love. That's a really mediocre program that has no good excuse to be the afterthought it has been since Lubick left.

I'd take Colorado State as the 16th team to round out a Western pod with BYU, Boise and San Diego State. But otherwise, I'd rather not bring in a program that is closer to Kansas competitively than any of the other teams in this league.

(01-26-2022 02:23 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 01:45 PM)bear2be2 Wrote:  I've never understood the Boise hate/disrespect. That's a really good program that has earned everything it's ever gotten and has sustained its success across three decades and numerous coaching changes.

I've also never understood the Colorado State love. That's a really mediocre program that has no good excuse to be the afterthought it has been since Lubick left.

I'd take Colorado State as the 16th team to round out a Western pod with BYU, Boise and San Diego State. But otherwise, I'd rather not bring in a program that is closer to Kansas competitively than any of the other teams in this league.

Because it’s not only about football success, it’s the university as a whole. CSU has all the “hard” parts of realignment (location, academics, etc) covered, they just have to hire better coaches, and they have the means and resources to do it.

(01-26-2022 01:13 PM)CYOWA Wrote:  ~bloated community college (no offense, UCF & Houston)

(01-26-2022 02:03 PM)CYOWA Wrote:  I didn't bring up Memphis because the overall sentiment seems to be everyone is on board with them as 1st choice outside of the possibility of other Power 5 additions (Arizona, ASU).

What does Boise State have to offer other than football success? Yes; I'm aware football is the main driver behind all of this, but you have to take other things into consideration. You think the B1G added Rutgers and Maryland because they were football juggernauts? No- they liked their location, television markets, and academic standing.

Colorado State has a lot to offer besides football. Let the Pac 12 have Boise and San Diego. We'll be shipping our Olympic athletes between Provo, Ames, Morgantown, Orlando, and Lubbock. Let's establish a little geographic sanity.

(01-26-2022 02:29 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 01:13 PM)CYOWA Wrote:  ~bloated community college (no offense, UCF & Houston)

UCF and Houston may have a ton of students, but the academic standards are considerably higher than at most of the Big 12 schools currently. Research productivity is high as well. I've found that most current Big 12 fans just assume that the giant metro schools must be low standards, low productivity, but it's just not the case.

(01-26-2022 02:29 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 01:13 PM)CYOWA Wrote:  ~bloated community college (no offense, UCF & Houston)

UCF and Houston may have a ton of students, but the academic standards are considerably higher than at most of the Big 12 schools currently. Research productivity is high as well. I've found that most current Big 12 fans just assume that the giant metro schools must be low standards, low productivity, but it's just not the case.

(01-26-2022 02:38 PM)CYOWA Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 02:29 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 01:13 PM)CYOWA Wrote:  ~bloated community college (no offense, UCF & Houston)

UCF and Houston may have a ton of students, but the academic standards are considerably higher than at most of the Big 12 schools currently. Research productivity is high as well. I've found that most current Big 12 fans just assume that the giant metro schools must be low standards, low productivity, but it's just not the case.

Good point. Colorado State, Houston, UCF, and now Memphis all have R1 status. Boise State is still R2.

(01-26-2022 02:23 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 01:45 PM)bear2be2 Wrote:  I've never understood the Boise hate/disrespect. That's a really good program that has earned everything it's ever gotten and has sustained its success across three decades and numerous coaching changes.

I've also never understood the Colorado State love. That's a really mediocre program that has no good excuse to be the afterthought it has been since Lubick left.

I'd take Colorado State as the 16th team to round out a Western pod with BYU, Boise and San Diego State. But otherwise, I'd rather not bring in a program that is closer to Kansas competitively than any of the other teams in this league.

Because it’s not only about football success, it’s the university as a whole. CSU has all the “hard” parts of realignment (location, academics, etc) covered, they just have to hire better coaches, and they have the means and resources to do it.

(01-26-2022 02:55 PM)bear2be2 Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 02:23 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 01:45 PM)bear2be2 Wrote:  I've never understood the Boise hate/disrespect. That's a really good program that has earned everything it's ever gotten and has sustained its success across three decades and numerous coaching changes.

I've also never understood the Colorado State love. That's a really mediocre program that has no good excuse to be the afterthought it has been since Lubick left.

I'd take Colorado State as the 16th team to round out a Western pod with BYU, Boise and San Diego State. But otherwise, I'd rather not bring in a program that is closer to Kansas competitively than any of the other teams in this league.

Because it’s not only about football success, it’s the university as a whole. CSU has all the “hard” parts of realignment (location, academics, etc) covered, they just have to hire better coaches, and they have the means and resources to do it.

I may be in the minority, but I could not care less about academics in an athletic conference. And that was true before the relatively desperate set of circumstances that have forced the Big 12 into its current situation.

And location is moderately important. But it's not as important at athletic potential. I'm looking for teams that can elevate the national perception of this conference and Baylor's program. Wins on the football field over Boise do that. Beating Colorado State does not. Colorado State would be an instant bottom-feeder in both football and men's basketball (the present season notwithstanding) and would do nothing to make people outside of the Big 12's footprint respect it more.

Love Boise or hate them, most nationwide respect the program they've built and the success they've had. Beating them means something. The more teams we have in the Big 12 for which that is true, the better.

(01-26-2022 02:49 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 02:38 PM)CYOWA Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 02:29 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 01:13 PM)CYOWA Wrote:  ~bloated community college (no offense, UCF & Houston)

UCF and Houston may have a ton of students, but the academic standards are considerably higher than at most of the Big 12 schools currently. Research productivity is high as well. I've found that most current Big 12 fans just assume that the giant metro schools must be low standards, low productivity, but it's just not the case.

Good point. Colorado State, Houston, UCF, and now Memphis all have R1 status. Boise State is still R2.

I was planning to compile this data at some point, so I decided to go ahead and do it since you mentioned R1. Sponsored research in 2019 (latest year available from the NSF) at each Big 12 institution:

Cincinnati - $529.8m
Iowa St. - $358.4m
Kansas - $352.6m
UCF - $225.1m
Kansas St. - $218.6m
Houston - $195.4m
Texas Tech - $193.9m
West Virginia - $187.5m
Oklahoma St. - $184.2m
BYU - $39.5m
Baylor - $33.3m
TCU - $6.5m

Obviously, this metric isn't particularly useful for the private schools, since all three of them emphasize teaching over research.

The schools leaving and some of the usual suspects:

*UT-Austin - $696.1m
*Colorado St. - $398.5m
*South Florida - $391.3m
*Oklahoma - $302.6m
*San Diego St. - $92.9m
*Memphis - $58.7m
*SMU - $42.5
*Boise - $39.8m

(01-26-2022 03:03 PM)hiphopfroggy Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 02:55 PM)bear2be2 Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 02:23 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 01:45 PM)bear2be2 Wrote:  I've never understood the Boise hate/disrespect. That's a really good program that has earned everything it's ever gotten and has sustained its success across three decades and numerous coaching changes.

I've also never understood the Colorado State love. That's a really mediocre program that has no good excuse to be the afterthought it has been since Lubick left.

I'd take Colorado State as the 16th team to round out a Western pod with BYU, Boise and San Diego State. But otherwise, I'd rather not bring in a program that is closer to Kansas competitively than any of the other teams in this league.

Because it’s not only about football success, it’s the university as a whole. CSU has all the “hard” parts of realignment (location, academics, etc) covered, they just have to hire better coaches, and they have the means and resources to do it.

I may be in the minority, but I could not care less about academics in an athletic conference. And that was true before the relatively desperate set of circumstances that have forced the Big 12 into its current situation.

And location is moderately important. But it's not as important at athletic potential. I'm looking for teams that can elevate the national perception of this conference and Baylor's program. Wins on the football field over Boise do that. Beating Colorado State does not. Colorado State would be an instant bottom-feeder in both football and men's basketball (the present season notwithstanding) and would do nothing to make people outside of the Big 12's footprint respect it more.

Love Boise or hate them, most nationwide respect the program they've built and the success they've had. Beating them means something. The more teams we have in the Big 12 for which that is true, the better.

Which is why it is best to stay at 12 and wait and see what happens with the Pac and ACC. The TV negotiations will certainly reflect that.

(01-26-2022 03:03 PM)hiphopfroggy Wrote:  Which is why it is best to stay at 12 and wait and see what happens with the Pac and ACC. The TV negotiations will certainly reflect that.

(01-26-2022 01:45 PM)bear2be2 Wrote:  I've never understood the Boise hate/disrespect.

(01-26-2022 03:30 PM)CYOWA Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 01:45 PM)bear2be2 Wrote:  I've never understood the Boise hate/disrespect.

Boise State gave Iowa State the "gift" of Jim Criner in 1982 who effectively cratered our program with recruiting violations and crappy football. Think of that: we were cheating and sucked anyways. Up until that point, throughout the 60s & 70s Iowa State was the favored team in our state because the Hawkeyes were abysmal before Hayden Fry. It took us two decades to crawl out of that grave.

That and we still hold a grudge from the 2002 Humanitarian Bowl.