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+----- Thread: A couple of interesting articles on Ben DiNucci (/thread-901150.html)
A couple of interesting articles on Ben DiNucci - Purple - 06-14-2020 02:10 PM
I found a couple of interesting articles, linked below, on Ben DiNucci and what is becoming a quarterback "situation" in Dallas.
Andrew Oliveros of The Breeze summed up the "situation" exactly the way I have.
John Williams, writing for The Star, picked The Breeze article apart with a condescending "FCS is crap, seventh-round draft picks are crap" tone. But, he wasn't all wrong, especially in one striking and very true sentence.... "Let's just say to NFL front offices, draft status matters," again insinuating that Nooch is crap or he would have been drafted higher.
Yep, draft status matters. But, of all the teams in the NFL, I believe that is less the case in Dallas than anywhere else in the league.
I found this paragraph bizarre, coming from a writer who pretends to be very knowledgeable about the Dallas Cowboys and its history....
"Sure Carson Wentz, Jimmy Garapolo, and Ben DiNucci all played in the FCS and had a ton of success. The difference is that DiNucci was a seventh-round pick while Wentz was taken in the first round, and Garapolo was taken in the second."
Again with the "seventh-round draft picks are crap and should kill themselves" schtick. While mentioning Wentz and Garappolo as FCS QBs who were first- and second-round picks, compared to Nooch's seventh-round shame, Williams forgot about another FCS quarterback by the name of Tony Romo, who was never even drafted, yet became an All-Pro who signed a 6-year contract extension worth $108 million, with $55 million guaranteed and $25 million in bonuses in 2013 for a team that Williams should at least be a little bit familiar with. And, to think that if Romo hadn't suffered a broken back, Dak Prescott might still be riding the pine.
Be sure to read the comments in The Star article. One thing I didn't know was that Dallas is considering signing Aaron Rodgers, which would really make the "situation" a wild one.
Breeze article
Star article
RE: A couple of interesting articles on Ben DiNucci - JMUska - 06-14-2020 04:34 PM
I read both articles, and I appreciate both authors for bringing a unique slant during our sportsless time.
Oliveros's Breeze article is obviously going to homer it up a bit for DiNucci. He also found a good quote to pull from Stephen Jones comparing the situation to Romo. Honestly, in terms of career trajectory, there's not much opportunity difference between a UDFA and a late rounder. Players have legitimate opportunities at a successful career. He is a bit dismissive of Dalton not being a "winner" though.
Williams from the Star counters by saying "QB wins isn't a stat" in defense of Dalton, but he doesn't really give any actual stats. So let's dive in a bit.
Dalton has 20 career fourth quarter comebacks, 14 of which have come against teams against a winning record. That's 9th among players active as of 2019, so 8th among currently active QBs due to Eli's retirement. Every QB ahead of him has played more seasons (some around twice as many), except Russell Wilson who came in one year after Dalton. Again, this is kind of a team stat, but the Bengals as a team haven't been nearly as good as the teams of most of the other QBs on the list. So I think it speaks to Dalton's effectiveness in his role.
(source: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_active.htm )
Let's dig into some more advanced metrics:
(source: https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/andy-dalton/#!#metrics)
2019 was a bad year for the Bengals. Yep. Check out the "supporting cast efficiency" rating for Dalton. #32. This stat weights the production premiums of a QB's RB, WR, and TE teammates. Dalton had the least efficient skill players in the league around him, and that's why we throw out "team wins" as a stat measuring QB effectiveness. Dalton also finished #32 in receiver target separation. He literally, out of anybody in the league, had the fewest guys get open for him. However, he still finished #11 in accuracy rating according to Player Profiler. That stat is developed by analysis of game film and grading each throw from the season. That's an impressive finish in the midst of a bad season.
My subjective opinion is that Dalton has always been a "good" NFL quarterback. There have certainly been objectively worse QBs to win many NFL games and championships.
(If you're curious, the Cowboys were #8 in the league in "supporting cast efficiency." No knock on Dak really though. He actually had the most passes dropped of any QB in the league, and was #9 in QB accuracy rating. He still was good enough on his deep balls and efficient enough in the red zone to parlay the #8 supporting cast and #9 accuracy, along with leading the league in having his passes dropped, into finishing second in yards, second in air yards, and fourth in TD passes. In summary, Dak had a good season last year.)
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/dak-prescott/
What's this all mean? I don't know. I have fun looking at stats might be the biggest takeaway.
If Dak is absent from the Cowboys, Dalton's good enough to get the starting shot for the Cowboys.
I'm rooting hard for DiNucci to make the roster and develop/get a shot to be a starter. I think his best path is something similar to Romo - do well on the team a few years and get an opening. His best non-injury path (because nobody wants to root for injuries) in Dallas starts with Dak not re-signing. His best overall path is probably be a good NFL roster member in Dallas, show well in preseason, make good impressions, then sign elsewhere. Kind of like the Aaron Brooks path where he started in Green Bay with no path to a starting gig then carved out a good career in New Orleans.
RE: A couple of interesting articles on Ben DiNucci - AssyrianDuke - 06-14-2020 04:44 PM
It's weird that he is taking the "draft status matters" road. You mentioned Romo, but Dak was a 4th rounder, which isn't a guarantee of stardom.
RE: A couple of interesting articles on Ben DiNucci - Anders - 06-14-2020 05:28 PM
If DiNucci makes the roster with Dalton and Dak (assuming they work out his deal) I see that as a win. I don't think they just drafted him to make a point and I do think McCarthy sees potential in him. The abbreviated preseason makes it an uphill battle for Ben but if he sticks on the roster he will be in a great QB room with a lot of offensive assets and learn a lot.
Being a journeyman backup is certainly not a bad a role and if you sit in that spot long enough you will inevitably get a shot as a starter after putting your time in. As much as I hate the Cowboys, I will be rooting for Ben and may have to suck it up and get a jersey
. Imagine if the Cowboys actually put it all together and made it to a Superbowl. It would be the most recent Duke to earn a ring after Rashard Davis right?
RE: A couple of interesting articles on Ben DiNucci - Purple - 06-14-2020 05:54 PM
(06-14-2020 04:34 PM)JMUska Wrote: I read both articles, and I appreciate both authors for bringing a unique slant during our sportsless time.
Oliveros's Breeze article is obviously going to homer it up a bit for DiNucci. He also found a good quote to pull from Stephen Jones comparing the situation to Romo. Honestly, in terms of career trajectory, there's not much opportunity difference between a UDFA and a late rounder. Players have legitimate opportunities at a successful career. He is a bit dismissive of Dalton not being a "winner" though.
Williams from the Star counters by saying "QB wins isn't a stat" in defense of Dalton, but he doesn't really give any actual stats. So let's dive in a bit.
Dalton has 20 career fourth quarter comebacks, 14 of which have come against teams against a winning record. That's 9th among players active as of 2019, so 8th among currently active QBs due to Eli's retirement. Every QB ahead of him has played more seasons (some around twice as many), except Russell Wilson who came in one year after Dalton. Again, this is kind of a team stat, but the Bengals as a team haven't been nearly as good as the teams of most of the other QBs on the list. So I think it speaks to Dalton's effectiveness in his role.
(source: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_active.htm )
Let's dig into some more advanced metrics:
(source: https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/andy-dalton/#!#metrics)
2019 was a bad year for the Bengals. Yep. Check out the "supporting cast efficiency" rating for Dalton. #32. This stat weights the production premiums of a QB's RB, WR, and TE teammates. Dalton had the least efficient skill players in the league around him, and that's why we throw out "team wins" as a stat measuring QB effectiveness. Dalton also finished #32 in receiver target separation. He literally, out of anybody in the league, had the fewest guys get open for him. However, he still finished #11 in accuracy rating according to Player Profiler. That stat is developed by analysis of game film and grading each throw from the season. That's an impressive finish in the midst of a bad season.
My subjective opinion is that Dalton has always been a "good" NFL quarterback. There have certainly been objectively worse QBs to win many NFL games and championships.
(If you're curious, the Cowboys were #8 in the league in "supporting cast efficiency." No knock on Dak really though. He actually had the most passes dropped of any QB in the league, and was #9 in QB accuracy rating. He still was good enough on his deep balls and efficient enough in the red zone to parlay the #8 supporting cast and #9 accuracy, along with leading the league in having his passes dropped, into finishing second in yards, second in air yards, and fourth in TD passes. In summary, Dak had a good season last year.)
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/dak-prescott/
What's this all mean? I don't know. I have fun looking at stats might be the biggest takeaway.
If Dak is absent from the Cowboys, Dalton's good enough to get the starting shot for the Cowboys.
I'm rooting hard for DiNucci to make the roster and develop/get a shot to be a starter. I think his best path is something similar to Romo - do well on the team a few years and get an opening. His best non-injury path (because nobody wants to root for injuries) in Dallas starts with Dak not re-signing. His best overall path is probably be a good NFL roster member in Dallas, show well in preseason, make good impressions, then sign elsewhere. Kind of like the Aaron Brooks path where he started in Green Bay with no path to a starting gig then carved out a good career in New Orleans.
Very well said. I agree with you on Ben's potential and likely trajectory. I hope he
and Ron'Dell stick in Dallas so I can show up at AT&T in my JMU gear.
I also found some press on Ron'Dell. I think he makes the roster. The Cowboys front office is very impressed with him and Nooch both. McCarthy, in particular, really likes Nooch (not a bad thing) and their "small world" connections.
RE: A couple of interesting articles on Ben DiNucci - Polish Hammer - 06-14-2020 05:58 PM
Thanks for posting Purple, I think they will both be sticking around in Dallas as practice squad players at the least unless somebody claims them on the way.
RE: A couple of interesting articles on Ben DiNucci - Purple - 06-14-2020 06:32 PM
(06-14-2020 04:44 PM)AssyrianDuke Wrote: It's weird that he is taking the "draft status matters" road. You mentioned Romo, but Dak was a 4th rounder, which isn't a guarantee of stardom.
Exactly. That's why I say Nooch is on the best team he could possibly be on to get a shot. The past two quarterbacks were absolutely obscure (Romo) and relatively obscure (Dak). Both became All-Pros.
Jerry Jones does not give a whit about college pedigree and, in fact, loves turning a nobody into a superstar. He has a history of it.
I wonder if thinking about superstar Charles Haley, from small-time JMU, has had anything to do with Jones and the Cowboys paying particular attention to JMU players. Probably not. I'm sure they are much more analytical than that. Still, I have to believe that when they are looking for a diamond in the rough, which Dallas is always looking for, I bet you JMU is one of the first places they look. Smart!
RE: A couple of interesting articles on Ben DiNucci - NJDuke97 - 06-14-2020 06:37 PM
Bad to say but I think the Nooch’s chances to play could hinge on the current situation with Covid. The Tampa Bay head coach was recently quoted as saying that teams may keep a Qb in quarantine just in case. Would that Qb be Dalton with The Nooch perhaps as a backup on game day or would it be The Nooch and worst case the Cowboys could start him or carry him on game day as a backup to Dalton if something happens? Weird year so it could be one where he sees the field in a situation like that.
RE: A couple of interesting articles on Ben DiNucci - Purple - 06-14-2020 06:42 PM
(06-14-2020 05:58 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote: Thanks for posting Purple, I think they will both be sticking around in Dallas as practice squad players at the least unless somebody claims them on the way.
I actually look for Ron'Dell to surprise some folks, but it won't be a surprise to the Dallas coaches and front office. They know what they have. He could have a Moats-like career or maybe even better. A true tweener, smallish for a DE and biggish for a LB, I would like to see Dallas get creative with his use. His quickness, explosiveness, and strength is going to raise some eyebrows. I see his smallish stature at DE as a big advantage. My opinion.
RE: A couple of interesting articles on Ben DiNucci - Purple - 06-14-2020 06:46 PM
(06-14-2020 06:37 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote: Bad to say but I think the Nooch’s chances to play could hinge on the current situation with Covid. The Tampa Bay head coach was recently quoted as saying that teams may keep a Qb in quarantine just in case. Would that Qb be Dalton with The Nooch perhaps as a backup in game day or would it be The Nooch and worst case the Cowboys could start him or carry him on game day as a backup to Dalton if something happens. Weird tear so it could be one where he sees the field in a situation like that.
OMG! A reserve quarterback in quarantine. The world HAS gone nucking futs! I wouldn't be surprised, but I doubt it. Down here in the heart of Texas, folks are getting back into their regular pre-COVID routines.
What would really suck for Nooch is if Dallas does, in fact, sign Aaron Rogers. That would likely have Nooch looking for a job. But, I don't think they will pull the trigger on Rogers until they are certain that Dak isn't worth chasing, so that could preserve Nooch's job. So many moving parts in this "situation."
Dak's signing deadline is July 15. Putting Aaron Rogers and Dak side by side, I can't imagine any team choosing Dak. Everyone I know in Dallas says Dak is going to sign. He is just holding out for the best deal he can get. We will see. Dak is not nearly as popular in Dallas as Romo was. If Jerry Jones gets pissed, I could see him pulling his offer to Dak and signing Rogers for a lot less money and will likely have a much better quarterback to boot. I don't think the Dallas coaches and front office are sold on Dalton to carry the franchise.
RE: A couple of interesting articles on Ben DiNucci - Polish Hammer - 06-14-2020 06:54 PM
(06-14-2020 06:42 PM)Purple Wrote:Oddly I see him somewhere between Moats and Hugh Douglas and think there’s definitely a place for him in this league for years.(06-14-2020 05:58 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote: Thanks for posting Purple, I think they will both be sticking around in Dallas as practice squad players at the least unless somebody claims them on the way.
I actually look for Ron'Dell to surprise some folks, but it won't be a surprise to the Dallas coaches and front office. They know what they have. He could have a Moats-like career or maybe even better. A true tweener, smallish for a DE and biggish for a LB, I would like to see Dallas get creative with his use. His quickness, explosiveness, and strength is going to raise some eyebrows. I see his smallish stature at DE as a big advantage. My opinion.