(02-12-2024 05:13 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 02:46 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 01:44 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  ... From the beginning it was a bad deal to lock into games with a bad conference like the SBC, they didn't deserve to be on the floor with MAC schools.

If the Troy Trojans (NET 133) didn't deserve to be on the floor with Kent State (NET 179), it seems like nobody told the Trojans.

The Sunbelt has 4 teams above 150 NET at this point in time, the MAC has 2.

Thanks, but you’re quoting me paraphrasing somebody else’s complaints and nonstop rants about the SBC.

Oh, is that what you were doing? Re-reading it, I can see that it can be read that way, depending on whether someone starts out reading "I don't think so" as directed at "shut up Astro" or at "we suck LOL", which switches "to them" either to posters or to the MAC schools.

Sorry, I probably read too many "it's absurd to play the SBC, the MAC is far better than the SBC" comments when the deal was announced, making me inclined to see it repeated.

As far as tweaks, I'd like to see the random allocation based on record in an early season two-game tournament, with the conference that has fewer 2-0 schools selecting opponents at random from the other conferences 2-0 schools, the remaining 2-0 conferences allocated at random to 1-1 schools (if available), and down like that.

So it would still have a lot of luck involved, but each participating school can improve their shot at a better NET game by their early season two-game tournament performance.
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(02-13-2024 12:44 PM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 11:15 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 10:05 AM)freshtop Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 12:10 AM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 03:48 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Southern enrollment to a now football league is increasing while the MAC in large is losing students. That helps home courts as the students care about Athletics plus there's just more of em. I envy the Sunbelt in 2024... I'm nostalgic at what the MAC once was. FB leagues should not fall behind the 14th best league. A10 and Big East are the only ones who should be investing at our level. Sad stuff. Horizon and OVC and Missouri Valley firmly ahead of the MAC now... wtf.

Maybe the MAC should reconsider being a football league. Perhaps some schools should drop football a level or so and redirect that money into the basketball programs. What is football doing for them that a few cool extra million into a sport with only 5 players wouldn't benefit from?

Hard to redirect football money elsewhere when football is the money maker in the first place.

https://knightnewhousedata.org/fbs/mac#!...he_money-1

Take away the money from media, CFP, guarantee games, etc and it would be hard to fund anything.

Indeed, the MAC doesn't have a contract with ESPN because of basketball. MAC basketball wouldn't get the miniscule coverage it gets now if not for MAC football.

Besides, no one cares about FCS. The 2024 FCS NC game barely had over 1 million viewers despite being broadcast on ABC. Every MAC bowl game, except for one, had better TV ratings.

Also, multiple articles have shown how FCS football losses more money than G5 football because of the loss in game guarantees, media payouts, decrease in ticket sales, and loss of CFP money shares.

https://www.lcsun-news.com/story/sports/.../84332590/

Apparently a million people cared. that's more than "nobody."

Ratings that only beat one MAC bowl game, which are just exhibition games, suggest that very few people care about the championships as such, and most of the audience are just the floating audience for football on the television once the regular season is over and there are only so many games available to watch.

Note that the two HBCU conference champions who have the option to get on linear TV directly and bypass the FCS knockout process to try to win through to getting on linear TV, but compete for the FCS championship, simply skip the championship and take the TV spot.

The FCS Natty featured great teams but from a sparcey populated part of the country. The North and Northwest dominate lately. A JMU or Delware of years past may draw better nationally. Also the only league balsy enough to playoutdoors in the winter for a Championship (Frisco ain't bad though).

(02-13-2024 02:03 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 09:25 AM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 05:43 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 04:55 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(02-11-2024 09:05 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  All mid-majors struggle with the portal and NIL. I feel the issue is more and more MAC schools are underfunding their basketball teams in order to spend money on football or hockey. In college sports a coach isn't just the X and O's guy, he's also the GM. Quality coaches lead to quality programs. I just don't see MAC programs going out and spending to get high caliber coaches.

First, a high caliber coach (unless he's under the radar) isn't going to come to a MAC school. If they do and are successful, they are immediately poached by a P4 program and you are back to another coaching search.

Spend away! Good luck keeping them.

I'm not saying go out and get Calipari. I'm more talking about how Toledo poached Kowalczyk from Green Bay where he was having success. Akron got Groce, a guy who struck out at a P6, but had previous success at the mid-major level. Ohio attempted to do something similar to Toledo by poaching Boals, but it hasn't worked out. It seems most MAC programs are going after first time head coaches instead of going after guys who have had proven success.

You act like losing your coach because you've had a successful program is a bad thing. It certainly beats your coach being so bad that you have to fire them and pay them a large buy out. Akron lost Dambrot then got Groce. Buffalo lost Hurley then got Oats. You act as though MAC football doesn't face the same challenges. Would you have preferred Fleck to perpetually win 5-7 games per year that way your program could keep him? I'd guess not.

hasn't worked out according to whom?

He hasn't been bad. I guess I just expected Ohio would consistently be contending at the top of the MAC, especially after how his tenure started. Looking back saying it hasn't worked out was unfair. It also kind of furthers my point that the quickest way for the MAC to improve as a whole is for more teams to go out and get coaches who have shown the ability to win at the mid-major level.

Well, we have been contending during his time at Ohio, but maybe not at the top all the time like us Ohio fans wish it would be. But that's not realistic in a league as top-heavy as ours. He has won a MAC title and sent a guy to the NBA so, yeah, he's doing alright.

(02-14-2024 10:13 AM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 02:03 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 09:25 AM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 05:43 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 04:55 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  First, a high caliber coach (unless he's under the radar) isn't going to come to a MAC school. If they do and are successful, they are immediately poached by a P4 program and you are back to another coaching search.

Spend away! Good luck keeping them.

I'm not saying go out and get Calipari. I'm more talking about how Toledo poached Kowalczyk from Green Bay where he was having success. Akron got Groce, a guy who struck out at a P6, but had previous success at the mid-major level. Ohio attempted to do something similar to Toledo by poaching Boals, but it hasn't worked out. It seems most MAC programs are going after first time head coaches instead of going after guys who have had proven success.

You act like losing your coach because you've had a successful program is a bad thing. It certainly beats your coach being so bad that you have to fire them and pay them a large buy out. Akron lost Dambrot then got Groce. Buffalo lost Hurley then got Oats. You act as though MAC football doesn't face the same challenges. Would you have preferred Fleck to perpetually win 5-7 games per year that way your program could keep him? I'd guess not.

hasn't worked out according to whom?

He hasn't been bad. I guess I just expected Ohio would consistently be contending at the top of the MAC, especially after how his tenure started. Looking back saying it hasn't worked out was unfair. It also kind of furthers my point that the quickest way for the MAC to improve as a whole is for more teams to go out and get coaches who have shown the ability to win at the mid-major level.

Well, we have been contending during his time at Ohio, but maybe not at the top all the time like us Ohio fans wish it would be. But that's not realistic in a league as top-heavy as ours. He has won a MAC title and sent a guy to the NBA so, yeah, he's doing alright.

Some might be be tempted to whine about the Bobcat's current NET 170 dragging the conference NET down ("the conference isn't top-heavy, it's top scarce and middle heavy, yadda, yadda, yadda"), but with Kent State's NET 184, I have to recuse myself.

(02-14-2024 01:20 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 10:13 AM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 02:03 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 09:25 AM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 05:43 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  I'm not saying go out and get Calipari. I'm more talking about how Toledo poached Kowalczyk from Green Bay where he was having success. Akron got Groce, a guy who struck out at a P6, but had previous success at the mid-major level. Ohio attempted to do something similar to Toledo by poaching Boals, but it hasn't worked out. It seems most MAC programs are going after first time head coaches instead of going after guys who have had proven success.

You act like losing your coach because you've had a successful program is a bad thing. It certainly beats your coach being so bad that you have to fire them and pay them a large buy out. Akron lost Dambrot then got Groce. Buffalo lost Hurley then got Oats. You act as though MAC football doesn't face the same challenges. Would you have preferred Fleck to perpetually win 5-7 games per year that way your program could keep him? I'd guess not.

hasn't worked out according to whom?

He hasn't been bad. I guess I just expected Ohio would consistently be contending at the top of the MAC, especially after how his tenure started. Looking back saying it hasn't worked out was unfair. It also kind of furthers my point that the quickest way for the MAC to improve as a whole is for more teams to go out and get coaches who have shown the ability to win at the mid-major level.

Well, we have been contending during his time at Ohio, but maybe not at the top all the time like us Ohio fans wish it would be. But that's not realistic in a league as top-heavy as ours. He has won a MAC title and sent a guy to the NBA so, yeah, he's doing alright.

Some might be be tempted to whine about the Bobcat's current NET 170 dragging the conference NET down ("the conference isn't top-heavy, it's top scarce and middle heavy, yadda, yadda, yadda"), but with Kent State's NET 184, I have to recuse myself.

When I say top-heavy, I'm talking traditionally good teams, not necessarily this year.

(02-14-2024 01:34 PM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 01:20 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 10:13 AM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 02:03 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 09:25 AM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  hasn't worked out according to whom?

He hasn't been bad. I guess I just expected Ohio would consistently be contending at the top of the MAC, especially after how his tenure started. Looking back saying it hasn't worked out was unfair. It also kind of furthers my point that the quickest way for the MAC to improve as a whole is for more teams to go out and get coaches who have shown the ability to win at the mid-major level.

Well, we have been contending during his time at Ohio, but maybe not at the top all the time like us Ohio fans wish it would be. But that's not realistic in a league as top-heavy as ours. He has won a MAC title and sent a guy to the NBA so, yeah, he's doing alright.

Some might be be tempted to whine about the Bobcat's current NET 170 dragging the conference NET down ("the conference isn't top-heavy, it's top scarce and middle heavy, yadda, yadda, yadda"), but with Kent State's NET 184, I have to recuse myself.

When I say top-heavy, I'm talking traditionally good teams, not necessarily this year.

Knock wood that this year is an aberration and not the new normal.

(02-14-2024 01:57 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 01:34 PM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 01:20 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 10:13 AM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 02:03 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  He hasn't been bad. I guess I just expected Ohio would consistently be contending at the top of the MAC, especially after how his tenure started. Looking back saying it hasn't worked out was unfair. It also kind of furthers my point that the quickest way for the MAC to improve as a whole is for more teams to go out and get coaches who have shown the ability to win at the mid-major level.

Well, we have been contending during his time at Ohio, but maybe not at the top all the time like us Ohio fans wish it would be. But that's not realistic in a league as top-heavy as ours. He has won a MAC title and sent a guy to the NBA so, yeah, he's doing alright.

Some might be be tempted to whine about the Bobcat's current NET 170 dragging the conference NET down ("the conference isn't top-heavy, it's top scarce and middle heavy, yadda, yadda, yadda"), but with Kent State's NET 184, I have to recuse myself.

When I say top-heavy, I'm talking traditionally good teams, not necessarily this year.

Knock wood that this year is an aberration and not the new normal.

Right!

I don't know if I'd ever consider the MAC a top heavy league. That would be more like the WCC where Gonzaga has dominated with only St. Mary's ever putting up a fight. In recent years Buffalo, Akron, Ohio, Toledo, and Kent have all had different measures of success. That's nearly half the conference. Several other schools had strong years mixed in as well. The MAC'S strength was that it had a strong middle and maybe only 1 or 2 teams that were mid 200+. This year there really isn't much of a middle. You have Akron and Toledo who are good, but not great. There might be 2-3 okay teams. The rest are very bad.

(02-14-2024 03:21 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  I don't know if I'd ever consider the MAC a top heavy league. That would be more like the WCC where Gonzaga has dominated with only St. Mary's ever putting up a fight. In recent years Buffalo, Akron, Ohio, Toledo, and Kent have all had different measures of success. That's nearly half the conference. Several other schools had strong years mixed in as well. The MAC'S strength was that it had a strong middle and maybe only 1 or 2 teams that were mid 200+. This year there really isn't much of a middle. You have Akron and Toledo who are good, but not great. There might be 2-3 okay teams. The rest are very bad.

Most of this I agree with. But to me Top heavy means a high amt of spacing between the middle and top of the league. It doesn't matter which team happen to be there. Whether it's Iowa or Wisconsin or Minnesota in the B1G West taking charge... that team plus the 3 BIG East teams makes that league top heavy in fb.

A couple teams carrying any strength the league has is what the MAC is currently and has been the past few seasons. That starts with OOC play and star power.

Without Toledo and Akron in 2023-2024 this league would put a 16 seed in the dance. A couple teams MAYBE could get a 15, but without the wins vs. UT or Akron, that seems unlikely Ohio or BG would get the wins neccesary. Toledo and Akron didn't even thrive OOC but were competitive vs. pretty good schedules. KSU was the same until league play.

(02-12-2024 12:40 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  These results shut up Astro

We suck lol.

I concur, we do suck.

I blame it on our prehistoric clinging to the division set-up for so long. The West division had been a joke for quite some time, yet it had some long tenured coaches. Whitford, Davis, Montgomery and Murphy got multiple seasons as they could fly a banner about their West Division performance, which actually was not very good. Hawkins had lost his fastball and even the best of the bunch Todd K has NEVER won the MAC in THIRTEEN seasons!

Yes, the conference is top heavy as a result. The East teams are so much better! How many West teams have been champs in this millennium?

(02-14-2024 07:06 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 12:40 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  These results shut up Astro

We suck lol.

I concur, we do suck.

I blame it on our prehistoric clinging to the division set-up for so long. The West division had been a joke for quite some time, yet it had some long tenured coaches. Whitford, Davis, Montgomery and Murphy got multiple seasons as they could fly a banner about their West Division performance, which actually was not very good. Hawkins had lost his fastball and even the best of the bunch Todd K has NEVER won the MAC in THIRTEEN seasons!

Yes, the conference is top heavy as a result. The East teams are so much better! How many West teams have been champs in this millennium?

I'm hoping that CMU doing better than their usual challenges EMU and WMU to pick up their pace.

(02-14-2024 07:06 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 12:40 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  These results shut up Astro

We suck lol.

I concur, we do suck.

I blame it on our prehistoric clinging to the division set-up for so long. The West division had been a joke for quite some time, yet it had some long tenured coaches. Whitford, Davis, Montgomery and Murphy got multiple seasons as they could fly a banner about their West Division performance, which actually was not very good. Hawkins had lost his fastball and even the best of the bunch Todd K has NEVER won the MAC in THIRTEEN seasons!

Yes, the conference is top heavy as a result. The East teams are so much better! How many West teams have been champs in this millennium?

Toledo has 4? regular season titles under TK. Aka been the number 1 seed. The last 2 I believe have been divisionless, so with an even schedule have faired fine vs. the East. Won or tied the West like 7 times total.

K has owned every MAC team but Kent and Ball State. Won 8 of last 10 vs. Ohio. Like 20 in a row vs. Miami. 12 of last 16 vs. Akron. UB and NIU have relinquished good records for slightly below .500 vs. UT in the past decade or so. UT had the POY injured in 2018. Willy Jackson was hurt pregame dunking in a semis and lost. Kind of bad luck mixed with poor coaching strategy or a hot opponent. 3 games in 3 days isn't something you ever do unless you play a non con tourney. Indiana State, UNM and UCIrvine are all top 70 NETS this season and all took UT down in close games this year. Maybe it pays off. Doubt it.... 1980...

Toledo basketball has been very good overall. Regular season titles are a better judgement than coming up just short in Cleveland, Toledo has a great basketball coach. MAC tournament is a crap shot because it is on a neutral court and Toledo has one of the best home court advantages in the MAC. Toledo becomes an underdog in Cleveland vs Akron, Kent State and Ohio. Those three have the big alumni numbers in Cleveland. Toledo basketball program has been fine.

(02-16-2024 12:14 AM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  Toledo basketball has been very good overall. Regular season titles are a better judgement than coming up just short in Cleveland, Toledo has a great basketball coach. MAC tournament is a crap shot because it is on a neutral court and Toledo has one of the best home court advantages in the MAC. Toledo becomes an underdog in Cleveland vs Akron, Kent State and Ohio. Those three have the big alumni numbers in Cleveland. Toledo basketball program has been fine.

While I do agree thar single elimination tournaments are a bit of a crap shoot. I will say a team well constructed for the regular season might not be built to win 3 games in 3 days.

I will use the Akron team with Big Dog as an example. When your team is built around a 300lb center you can win in the regular season when you're playing games 3-4 days apart. It suddenly becomes more challenging to win 3 games in 3 days. He looked absolutely gassed against Buffalo in the championship.

per the thread, I loved the challenge. some real good matchups. Sun Belt definitely showed out on the return games. Toledo had really good matchup with Louisiana and App St. Both very great games to watch.

as far as the MAC tourney. the tourney first favors the best team. next, it favors a team that is rugged and can slog through a poor shooting night with tired legs. MAC teams don't tend to be deep and most play short rotations by post season. depth is great if you really have it, but MAC tourney games are decided by a teams 6 or 7 best players.

(02-16-2024 03:00 AM)pono Wrote:  per the thread, I loved the challenge. some real good matchups. Sun Belt definitely showed out on the return games. Toledo had really good matchup with Louisiana and App St. Both very great games to watch.

as far as the MAC tourney. the tourney first favors the best team. next, it favors a team that is rugged and can slog through a poor shooting night with tired legs. MAC teams don't tend to be deep and most play short rotations by post season. depth is great if you really have it, but MAC tourney games are decided by a teams 6 or 7 best players.

To partially agree with slight Toledo slander here. You also can't have a 1st team all MAC player like JT shumate get 5 shots in the MACC. Kent Deed him up, yes, but guys like Moss and Cochran this year will still get shots up as the top options. The game plan and confidence was poor vs. KSU in 2023.

(02-16-2024 03:00 AM)pono Wrote:  per the thread, I loved the challenge. some real good matchups. Sun Belt definitely showed out on the return games. Toledo had really good matchup with Louisiana and App St. Both very great games to watch.

as far as the MAC tourney. the tourney first favors the best team. next, it favors a team that is rugged and can slog through a poor shooting night with tired legs. MAC teams don't tend to be deep and most play short rotations by post season. depth is great if you really have it, but MAC tourney games are decided by a teams 6 or 7 best players.

You are spot on! When you are a one-bid conference, you know that going into the season and are free to develop your team to compete under such conditions. Sendek figured it out.

(02-16-2024 12:29 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(02-16-2024 03:00 AM)pono Wrote:  per the thread, I loved the challenge. some real good matchups. Sun Belt definitely showed out on the return games. Toledo had really good matchup with Louisiana and App St. Both very great games to watch.

as far as the MAC tourney. the tourney first favors the best team. next, it favors a team that is rugged and can slog through a poor shooting night with tired legs. MAC teams don't tend to be deep and most play short rotations by post season. depth is great if you really have it, but MAC tourney games are decided by a teams 6 or 7 best players.

To partially agree with slight Toledo slander here. You also can't have a 1st team all MAC player like JT shumate get 5 shots in the MACC. Kent Deed him up, yes, but guys like Moss and Cochran this year will still get shots up as the top options. The game plan and confidence was poor vs. KSU in 2023.

Todd K is clearly the best coach at the Cadillac program in the MAC. When you play on Tuesday and then again on Friday or Saturday, nobody beats him. He is fabulous! Milton Barnes, the current coach of Jackson HS in Michigan, however, got his team to the NCAA tourney in his second year. Todd, on year THIRTEEN, still has the DOUGHNUT on the big dance. Todd, like Lamar Alexander is the king of the regular season! Frankly in Ypsilanti would love to have him as we are desperate.

The Toledo team I saw in Ypsilanti this year is different. The bench is far longer. I still think Akron is far more talented, but for the first time in years, I could see Toledo winning the MACC.

(02-16-2024 07:43 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(02-16-2024 12:29 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(02-16-2024 03:00 AM)pono Wrote:  per the thread, I loved the challenge. some real good matchups. Sun Belt definitely showed out on the return games. Toledo had really good matchup with Louisiana and App St. Both very great games to watch.

as far as the MAC tourney. the tourney first favors the best team. next, it favors a team that is rugged and can slog through a poor shooting night with tired legs. MAC teams don't tend to be deep and most play short rotations by post season. depth is great if you really have it, but MAC tourney games are decided by a teams 6 or 7 best players.

To partially agree with slight Toledo slander here. You also can't have a 1st team all MAC player like JT shumate get 5 shots in the MACC. Kent Deed him up, yes, but guys like Moss and Cochran this year will still get shots up as the top options. The game plan and confidence was poor vs. KSU in 2023.

Todd K is clearly the best coach at the Cadillac program in the MAC. When you play on Tuesday and then again on Friday or Saturday, nobody beats him. He is fabulous! Milton Barnes, the current coach of Jackson HS in Michigan, however, got his team to the NCAA tourney in his second year. Todd, on year THIRTEEN, still has the DOUGHNUT on the big dance. Todd, like Lamar Alexander is the king of the regular season! Frankly in Ypsilanti would love to have him as we are desperate.

The Toledo team I saw in Ypsilanti this year is different. The bench is far longer. I still think Akron is far more talented, but for the first time in years, I could see Toledo winning the MACC.

Toledo slept walked in Ypsi. While every shot went in for EMU, they chose to only foul a few times. Eagles went 3 of 9 from the line.

UT plays 6 sometimes 7 guys. Very young bench. Lorenston did play well at EMU. But no one else chose to play hard until the final 3 minutes. UTs defense in front of a neutral or road crowd won't show in Cleveland and be the death of us. But UT is good for the best offense in the conference and just enough stops to beat most teams.